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prefect posted:Yes, they're trespassing. Definitely. But that doesn't mean the right thing to do is drop bombs on them and burn them to death, even though that might be emotionally satisfying. Well once again I am laid low by the fact that we live in a world where "nuclear annihilation" and "let them off scot-free" are literally our only options. If only we could arrest them, but sadly death is the only option available.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:47
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prefect posted:Yes, they're trespassing. Definitely. But that doesn't mean the right thing to do is drop bombs on them and burn them to death, even though that might be emotionally satisfying. There is no middle ground between "bomb/burn them" and "leave them alone" apparently.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:47
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I think militia-defenders do not understand, that they should not be left alone.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:48
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These ISIS comparisons are okay I guess but let's cut the cutesy bullshit and call them Literally Hitler.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:48
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the trump tutelage posted:These ISIS comparisons are okay I guess but let's cut the cutesy bullshit and call them Literally Hitler. Ukrainian separatists do make a better analogy.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:49
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Homonazis will not conquer Oregon!
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Jan 7, 2016 21:50
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the trump tutelage posted:These ISIS comparisons are okay I guess but let's cut the cutesy bullshit and call them Literally Hitler. You must be confused. It's actually the people that want them arrested who are Literally Hitler, remember?
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Jan 7, 2016 21:50
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McDowell posted:Ukrainian separatists do make a better analogy. How dare you compare this situation to anything but Ruby Ridge and Waco, the only possible outcomes and comparisons!
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Jan 7, 2016 21:50
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LGD posted:Oh, I see, it's concern for their welfare that is making you advocate for swiftly putting them down by force. Come come now, you're giving away your whole game. There are no unpopular minorities in play here, just a load of privileged hicks who think the world isn't giving them their due deference. And again, I've not advocated force. I want them arrested for what they've done after they are broken, tired and no longer willing to sit in the dark with nothing to do, with nary a shot fired. Hopefully miserable and even more of a national laughingstock. Armed occupation of federal property coupled with explicit threats of violence toward law enforcement is not peaceful protest.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:51
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Who What Now posted:You must be confused. It's actually the people that want them arrested who are Literally Hitler, remember? The only hitler in this thread so far is the person who unironically supported the concept of life-unworthy-of-life.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:53
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Lotka Volterra posted:Also, characterizing someone literally just wanting people to face some kind of consequences for their actions (which includes threatening people at gunpoint) as a "lust for revenge" is not only intellectually dishonest, it makes you look like an equivocating moron. thing is tho people are just throwing up their hands and proclaiming defeat after one week of a currently ongoing occupation. there are more examples of militia standoffs ending in prosecution and conviction than not and these cases generally take more than a week or two weeks or even three weeks to conclude. and this really comes off as people reinforcing their left leaning persecution complexes claiming that the government is somehow allied with anti-government militias
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Jan 7, 2016 21:53
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Jan 7, 2016 21:53
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LGD posted:I literally laughed out loud at how intellectually bankrupt this particular rhetorical tack is If you want to get more specific: There aren't any opinion polls I've found that discuss the popularity of militias recently, so unless you have evidence that these guys are actually really hated by everyone instead of passively ignored by most, go ahead. The best you can do is a poll showing that 59% of Americans support federal land management, but that doesn't really tell you anything about this current standoff. What is more "laugh out loud" funny is you trying to equivocate this "protest" with minority protests that actually do face overwhelming hostility.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:54
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quote:se·di·tion "You guys are crazy if you think that them advocating for an uprising against the state could be called sedition, which is defined as advocating for an uprising against the state!"
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Jan 7, 2016 21:54
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prefect posted:In lighter news, this just showed up in the pictures thread: lmao this is really cute quote:Mr. Gray, a carpenter linked to antigovernment militia groups, was charged with assaulting a state trooper after a December 1999 traffic stop and was jailed, but he was released on bond in January 2000. He never showed up to court, returning instead to his property, where he and his relatives armed themselves and patrolled the barbed-wire fences. In a letter, he warned local officials that if they wanted to come get him, they needed to “bring body bags.” quote:Mr. Gray’s standoff is technically over. It ended in December 2014, when Douglas E. Lowe, at the time the district attorney in nearby Anderson County, dismissed the felony assault charge against Mr. Gray before leaving office. quote:Few had put more pressure on the authorities to enter the compound than Keith Tarkington, 49, the former son-in-law of Mr. Gray. A court order granted Mr. Tarkington custody of his two children, but he believes his sons and ex-wife have been living in the compound. He tried but failed to persuade officials to enforce the court order. His sons are now 18 and 19, and he believes they have been sequestered with Mr. Gray since they were infants.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:55
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Who What Now posted:"You guys are crazy if you think that them advocating for an uprising against the state could be called sedition, which is defined as advocating for an uprising against the state!" The word inciting in that sentence means "they were successful in doing so". These men were not.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:56
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Salt Fish posted:The only hitler in this thread so far is the person who unironically supported the concept of life-unworthy-of-life. Killing Nazis is problematic, they are people, too.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:56
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Popular Thug Drink posted:thing is tho people are just throwing up their hands and proclaiming defeat after one week of a currently ongoing occupation. there are more examples of militia standoffs ending in prosecution and conviction than not and these cases generally take more than a week or two weeks or even three weeks to conclude. and this really comes off as people reinforcing their left leaning persecution complexes claiming that the government is somehow allied with anti-government militias I think the frustration is more that there doesn't seem to have been any real effort to prosecute the Bundy ranch people, and it looks like this may end up the same way. Though, the FBI saying they were looking into charges made me feel somewhat better.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:57
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McDowell posted:Killing Nazis is problematic, they are people, too. Have Nazi's been triggered by these events?
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Jan 7, 2016 21:57
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Lotka Volterra posted:I think the frustration is more than there doesn't seem to have been any real effort to prosecute the Bundy ranch people, and it looks like this may end up the same way. Though, the FBI saying they were looking into charges made me feel somewhat better. yeah i guess if you cherry pick and fixate on the bundy ranch standoff instead of the general outcome of militia standoffs you'd work yourself up into a righteous lather but that's really more of a personal choice/problem
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Jan 7, 2016 21:58
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Salt Fish posted:The word inciting in that sentence means "they were successful in doing so". These men were not. I would think even attempting sedition is a crime, much like attempting murder.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:58
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Salt Fish posted:The word inciting in that sentence means "they were successful in doing so". These men were not. I see. So it's only sedition after you successfully overthrow the government. I'm glad you were here to redefine words to whatever was convenient for you, but I'd suggest being more upfront when you do it.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:59
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McDowell posted:Killing Nazis is problematic, they are people, too. I agree with that. I am categorically against the death penalty in all cases.
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Jan 7, 2016 21:59
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Talmonis posted:Come come now, you're giving away your whole game. There are no unpopular minorities in play here, just a load of privileged hicks who think the world isn't giving them their due deference. And again, I've not advocated force. I want them arrested for what they've done after they are broken, tired and no longer willing to sit in the dark with nothing to do, with nary a shot fired. Hopefully miserable and even more of a national laughingstock. You refer to them as "hicks" in this post and nothing about the media coverage or general response to this incident would lead someone to the conclusion that they're anything but adherents of an extremely unpopular political philosophy. How is that not an unpopular political minority? And how do you feel about the Black Panthers/Malcom X?
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Jan 7, 2016 22:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah i guess if you cherry pick and fixate on the bundy ranch standoff instead of the general outcome of militia standoffs you'd work yourself up into a righteous lather but that's really more of a personal choice/problem It may be because the Bundy ranch standoff was the most recent high-profile one and this involves the same group of idiots? idk
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Jan 7, 2016 22:00
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Salt Fish posted:The word inciting in that sentence means "they were successful in doing so". These men were not. To arouse; urge; provoke; encourage; spur on; goad; stir up; instigate; set in motion; as in to incite a riot. Also, generally, in Criminal Law to instigate, persuade, or move another to commit a crime; in this sense nearly synonymous with abet. I think it fits, unless you have another criminal law definition. Set in motion doesn't mean success.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:00
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Salt Fish posted:I agree with that. I am categorically against the death penalty in all cases. North America's getting soft, patrón, and the rest of the world is getting tough. Very, very tough. We're entering savage new times, and we're giong to have to be pure and direct and strong, if we're going to survive them. Now, you and this cesspool you call a television station and your people who wallow around in it, your viewers who watch you do it, they're rotting us away from the inside. We intend to stop that rot.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:01
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LGD posted:You refer to them as "hicks" in this post and nothing about the media coverage or general response to this incident would lead someone to the conclusion that they're anything but adherents of an extremely unpopular political philosophy. How is that not an unpopular political minority? They were systematically killed for doing nothing similar to these men, hope this helps.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:01
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Who What Now posted:"You guys are crazy if you think that them advocating for an uprising against the state could be called sedition, which is defined as advocating for an uprising against the state!"
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Jan 7, 2016 22:02
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Lotka Volterra posted:It may be because the Bundy ranch standoff was the most recent high-profile one and this involves the same group of idiots? idk yeah, like i said, cherry picking. we could even call it historic myopia. traditionally things don't turn out well for people who engage in armed standoffs against the government but if you really truly want to believe that these rural white conservatives are going to recieve special treatment then all you have to do is ignore all the times when rural white guys didn't recieve special treatment and hey, look, a body of evidence which demonstrates that they will!
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Jan 7, 2016 22:03
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LGD posted:You refer to them as "hicks" in this post and nothing about the media coverage or general response to this incident would lead someone to the conclusion that they're anything but adherents of an extremely unpopular political philosophy. How is that not an unpopular political minority? Twitter/the internet is not a useful source for determining whether or not something is an unpopular fringe view. Racists are regularly lambasted in the media/social media and I wouldn't characterize them as having an extremely unpopular minority viewpoint. The fact that the locals seemed to, for the most part, sympathize with the militia idiots while wanting them to leave should be more telling. Still pointless as data, though. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 22:04
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I think the majority of these men likely did not commit a crime, unless they damaged the interior of the house. Whoever is in charge will eat the trespassing charge, that much is sure, if the FBI is actually talking about finding something to charge them with, unlike the last Bundy dust-up.Venom Snake posted:Has anyone actually pointed out why the FBI couldn't just roll up in an APC and riot gear yet because it feels like you guys are giving these dipshits way to much credit. These guys are dipshits, but there are certain people watching and waiting for a certain response before they move on to attacking innocent people for disrespecting white supremacy as a whole. A bombing, a shooting, all is within their specialty of operations against civilians. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 22:04
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Has anyone actually pointed out why the FBI couldn't just roll up in an APC and riot gear yet because it feels like you guys are giving these dipshits way to much credit.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah, like i said, cherry picking. we could even call it historic myopia There are no serial crimes, all of them take place in a vacuum.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:04
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the trump tutelage posted:Think how much money people would save if they just used dictionaries instead of costly lawyers!! Apparently you use neither: cunny mcalister posted:Incite
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Jan 7, 2016 22:04
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cunny mcalister posted:There are no serial crimes, all of them take place in a vacuum. He's said this ITT
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Jan 7, 2016 22:05
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cunny mcalister posted:Incite As far as I'm aware the supreme court ruled at some point that sedition rulings require a clear and present danger that the incitement will effectively cause unlawful action. These guys called on other patriots to rise up and as far as I can tell nobody else did. Based on the existence of the clear and present litmus test I would say that success of incitement is in fact a legal requirement for sedition.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:07
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Nonsense posted:They were systematically killed for doing nothing similar to these men, hope this helps. I'm just trying to figure out if people in this thread would still be in favor of their being killed though I mean we have people who probably think of themselves as liberals/progressives who are talking about the importance of prosecuting sedition on this page, so it's possible I need to radically re-evaluate my assumptions about how they think the government should behave towards deviants
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Jan 7, 2016 22:07
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cunny mcalister posted:There are no serial crimes, all of them take place in a vacuum. i'm confused why you would try to use this argument on me when i'm pointing out that there is a solid precedent for these things to end in prosecutions, a fact which people choose to ignore so that they can complain about preferential treatment i mean go nuts if all you want to do is convince yourself that you're being oppressed, it's a free country
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Jan 7, 2016 22:07
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LGD posted:I'm just trying to figure out if people in this thread would still be in favor of their being killed though You can be progressive and still have a dim view of treason. Hard to make a socialist paradise with traitors tearing it down.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:09
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