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foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)

inthesto posted:

There's some kind of bizarre but great irony in how the majority of this thread aligns with what is the more conservative (with respect to its current political environment) party, and I can't help but love it.

Monroe seems like a pretty okay Democractic-Republican, but as usual the Federalists have it more right anyway. King/Ross

liberal communist leftism leads to fascism, buy my book

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Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



I think it's mostly the running theme that "States have the right to suck it!" -Abraham Lincoln from his deathbed.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.
Big government is good, slavery is bad.

Abner Cadaver II
Apr 21, 2009

TONIGHT!
Voting straight federalist/whig for those sweet, sweet internal improvements.

Let's build some fuckin CANALS

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich
I wonder if people will vote for the left-wing Populists when they come up considering that their great champion Thomas E. Watson "is now and will ever be a fearless advocate of the Jeffersonian Theory of Popular Government, and will oppose to the bitter end the Hamiltonian Doctrines of Class Rule, Moneyed Aristocracy, National Banks, High Tariffs, Standing Armies and formidable Navies — all of which go together as a system of oppressing the people."

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

Corek posted:

I wonder if people will vote for the left-wing Populists when they come up considering that their great champion Thomas E. Watson "is now and will ever be a fearless advocate of the Jeffersonian Theory of Popular Government, and will oppose to the bitter end the Hamiltonian Doctrines of Class Rule, Moneyed Aristocracy, National Banks, High Tariffs, Standing Armies and formidable Navies — all of which go together as a system of oppressing the people."

He had a false consciousness imposed upon him by decades of Jeffersionian lies, it can't be helped.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Corek posted:

I wonder if people will vote for the left-wing Populists when they come up considering that their great champion Thomas E. Watson "is now and will ever be a fearless advocate of the Jeffersonian Theory of Popular Government, and will oppose to the bitter end the Hamiltonian Doctrines of Class Rule, Moneyed Aristocracy, National Banks, High Tariffs, Standing Armies and formidable Navies — all of which go together as a system of oppressing the people."

depends on whether he thinks its totally fine to keep african americans oppressed because they aren't 'the people'

e: oh hey look, he was pretending to be racially inclusive while running for office and then turned out to be a gigantic flaming bag of poo poo later on so

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

inthesto posted:

There's some kind of bizarre but great irony in how the majority of this thread aligns with what is the more conservative (with respect to its current political environment) party, and I can't help but love it.

Monroe seems like a pretty okay Democractic-Republican, but as usual the Federalists have it more right anyway. King/Ross

You best believe I'm going to correct the travesty that was 1824. No House to bail them out this time.

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich

UberJew posted:

depends on whether he thinks its totally fine to keep african americans oppressed because they aren't 'the people'

e: oh hey look, he was pretending to be racially inclusive while running for office and then turned out to be a gigantic flaming bag of poo poo later on so

I'm only interested in the 1896 elections, before the Populists withered.

quote:

The People's Party advocated the public ownership of the railroads, steamship lines, and telephone and telegraph systems. It also supported the free and unlimited coinage of silver, the abolition of national banks, a system of graduated income tax and the direct election of United States Senators. As a Populist, Watson tried to unite the agrarians across class lines, overcoming racial divides. He also supported the right of black men to vote.

It could have been yours.

Also the biggest inheritor of the Hamiltonian ideology in the short term will be Henry Clay. But I don't think he's going to win in 1824.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)#Advocacy

Corek has issued a correction as of 01:17 on Jan 5, 2016

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Corek posted:

I'm only interested in the 1896 elections, before the Populists withered.
If you want radicalism, you should probably support the Socialist Labor Party. In 1892 and 1896 the party's platform included abolishing the Senate, Presidency, and Vice Presidency and replacing it with some kind of Worker's Council.

You can read their full platform here.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 01:41 on Jan 5, 2016

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011

Corek posted:

Also the biggest inheritor of the Hamiltonian ideology in the short term will be Henry Clay. But I don't think he's going to win in 1824.

Yeah, I'm ready to hitch my horse to the dead cause that is the Whigs once our One True Federalists dream.

Aliquid posted:

The common man was already thinking about politics, he just couldn't yet vote.

Far more accurate, my mistake.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

I'm so hype for five terms of Eugene Debs followed by the rule of Fightin Bob LaFollette

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

I'm so hype for five terms of Eugene Debs followed by the rule of Fightin Bob LaFollette

Same, same

I'm excited for 1948. Truman just genocided a bunch of Japanese and Earl Warren could be vice president.

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015
Personally, I hope that we will include Philip Roth's alternate history at some point so that I can vote for Lindbergh in '40.

Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man
King/Ross is the obvious correct choice.

Fritz Coldcockin
Nov 7, 2005

Aliquid posted:

Same, same

I'm excited for 1948. Truman just genocided a bunch of Japanese and Earl Warren could be vice president.

Goons will all ironically vote for Strom Thurmond.

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011

Alter Ego posted:

Goons will all ironically vote for Strom Thurmond.

"With the shear weight of the socialist nation we have made, Strom Thurmond is a funny blip, rather than inhuman gently caress-up."
:goonsay:

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich

karmicknight posted:

"With the shear weight of the socialist nation we have made, Strom Thurmond is a funny blip, rather than inhuman gently caress-up."
:goonsay:

why not both like George Fitzhugh

Wikipedia posted:

Sociology for the South, or, the Failure of Free Society (1854) was George Fitzhugh's most powerful attack on the philosophical foundations of free society. In it, he took on not only Adam Smith,[11] the foundational thinker of capitalism, but also John Locke,[12] Thomas Jefferson, and the entire liberal tradition. He argued that free labor and free markets enriched the strong while crushing the weak.[13] What society needed, he wrote, was slavery, not just for blacks, but for whites as well. "Slavery," he wrote, "is a form, and the very best form, of socialism."[14] "Socialism," he continued:

Proposes to do away with free competition; to afford protection and support at all times to the laboring class; to bring about, at least, a qualified community of property, and to associate labor. All these purposes, slavery fully land perfectly attains. [...] Socialism is already slavery in all save the master... Our only quarrel with Socialism is, that it will not honestly admit that it owes its recent revival to the failure of universal liberty, and is seeking to bring about slavery again in some form.[15]

Fitzhugh believed that slavery reduced the pressure on the poor and lower classes; in other words, he advocated slavery for poor whites as well as blacks.[16]

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Thank you all for voting. After participating in the last four elections, Rufus King has finally succeeded in attaining the Presidency. Even as the Federalist Party crumbles, he and his Vice President James Ross have promised to do everything in their power to avoid the excesses that led to war with Britain.



RESULTS BREAKDOWN

Most Popular Ticket:

Rufus King / James Ross (Federalist) - 28 votes (41.8%)
James Monroe / Daniel D. Tompkins (Democratic-Republican) - 27 votes (40.3%)
Rufus King / John Marshall (Federalist) - 7 votes (10.4%)
Rufus King / Rufus Goodloe Harper (Federalist) - 3 votes (4.5%)
Rufus King / John Eager Howard (Federalist) - 2 votes (3.0%)

Most Popular Parties:
Federalist Party - 40 votes (59.7%)
Democratic-Republican Party - 27 votes (40.3%)

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

ELECTION OF 1820

:siren: Click here to vote in the Election of 1820! :siren:



Background:

The Election of 1820 takes place amid the Democratic-Republican Party’s continued consolidation of political legitimacy. After their devastating defeat in 1816, during which King received only a third of the popular vote, the Federalist Party has declined to support any candidate for President. Reflecting their ongoing nationwide collapse, the party instead hopes to cling to retain some relevancy through the Vice Presidency and Monroe’s Cabinet.

Though effectively unopposed, serious issues have begun to emerge, challenging the unity of the Democratic-Republican Party. Two years into his Presidency, the United States suffered its largest economic crisis since the 1780s. The Panic of 1819, which stemmed from declining exports and imports and a decline in agricultural prices across the South, caused many of the country’s major banks to declare bankruptcy. Though many officials, including the Federalists running these banks, begged Monroe for financial assistance and protective tariffs, Monroe believed that the Panic was a natural feature of the economy and deferred to the Bank of the United States. Having embraced more conservative policies, the Bank refused to involve itself. The economy recovered before the year’s end, but the Panic has highlighted the need for relief for poorer citizens during economic calamity.

The Missouri Compromise has further strained Democratic-Republican unity on regional lines. In 1819, the largely slave-owning settlers in the Missouri Territory applied for statehood. This request set off a massive debate within Congress over the future of slavery, which ended in the House refusing to admit Missouri as a state. Fearing that the issue might escalate to Civil War, but believing any special restrictions on Missouri’s admission to be unconstitutional, Monroe joined forces with his Congressional ally, Henry Clay, to work out a solution.Together, the two formulated a solution whereby Maine and Missouri would both join the Union, maintaining a North-South balance in Congress. Additionally, the Compromise regulated slavery in the country's western territories by prohibiting it in the former Louisiana Territory north of the parallel 36°30′ north. This action seems to have appeased both sides for a time. Southerners know that they will gain states in the future but Northerners know that there is now a strict limitation on slavery’s expansion.

The Candidates:

DEMOCRATIC-REPUBLICAN PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: James Monroe
  • Notable Positions: President of the United States, Governor of Virginia, Ambassador to France, United States Senator from Virginia, Delegate to the Congress of the Confederation from Virginia
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Few men have been as accomplished a candidate as James Monroe. His resume includes outstanding service in the Revolutionary War, participation in the Continental Congress, leadership in the U.S. Senate, and strong management of the Department of State and Department of War. Monroe has negotiated multiple treaties, including the Louisiana Purchase, and oversaw the latter half of the War of 1812. Throughout his career, he has been noted for his integrity, frankness, and humility. Though opposed by some for continuing the “Virginia Dynasty,” Monroe is almost universally beloved by his party and the nation at large.
  • Platform: James Madison hopes to reunite the country together and bring about an “Era of Good Feeling.” A strong advocate of his fellow Virginian, George Washington, Monroe believes that the United States must chart an independent course for itself and avoid unnecessary entanglements with European powers. He further believes that the President must represent all Americans, not just his state or his party. Monroe has assembled a Cabinet based on skill, not geography or political ideology. These efforts have contributed to the Federalist Party’s collapse. In all other affairs, Monroe takes a strict constitutionalist approach to the powers of the presidency, believing that minor inconveniences are preferable to possible tyranny. Monroe believes in the necessity of public works projects and the occasional need for government intervention into the economy, but vows not use either policy to resolve domestic problems until the Constitution is amended to explicitly allow such actions. Monroe is a slaveowner, but considers the institution to be a necessary evil. He has proposed a system of gradual abolition, wherein former slaves will be deported to Africa. He tolerates the Bank of the United States and Madison’s policy on tariffs.


Vice Presidential Nominee: Daniel D. Tompkins
  • Notable Positions: Vice President of the United States, Governor of New York, New York Supreme Court Justice, Delegate to the New York State Constitutional Convention
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Before the War of 1812, Tompkins was a distinguished New York jurist who devoted his life to preserving the independence of New York and its people. When the state legislature refused to properly arm the state militia, Tompson spent much of his personal fortune to pay for what he could. When he ran out of money, Tompkins took out massive loans to prevent the state’s destruction from British forces. When Madison struggled to appoint a military commander to oversee New York City, Tompkins took the position. Though these actions have earned Tompkins the respect of some leaders, it has had a devastating impact on his health and psyche. Tompkins has been reduced to a shell of his former self and spends most of his time drinking. His financial situation is ruined and seems incapable of performing basic administrative duties. Federalists have accused him of corruption and deceit, further undermining his mental condition. He has been absent from Washington for almost three-fourths of his Presidency and has been attacked in the press "because he grossly neglected his duty." His health is in massive decline and it is uncertain if he will survive the election.
  • Platform: Before descending into drunkenness, Tompkins was an enthusiastic supporter of state rights. He believed in the need for individual states to share the burden of responsibility with the federal government. He supported improvements to the New York state militia and public works, more generally. He also advocated for the gradual abolition of slavery.

FEDERALIST PARTY CANDIDATES:


Vice Presidential Nominee: Richard Stockton
  • Notable Positions: United States Representative from New Jersey, United States Senator from New Jersey
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Richard Stockton was born in Princeton, New Jersey, the son of Richard Stockton, signatory of the Declaration of Independence and one of the core founders of Princeton University. A wealthy northern landowner, the younger Stockton is a prominent member of a rapidly dying party. In 1796, he was elected to the United States Senate, but declined to serve a second term and instead ran for Governor of New York. Faced with national backlash against Adams and the Federalist Party, Stockton was defeated in three consecutive elections. Only after the unpopular War of 1812 did Stockton again manage to get elected again, this time in the United States House of Representatives. After serving a single term, Stockton retired from politics. Still, he remains a good friend of the rising Daniel Webster and participates in the American Antiquarian Society.
  • Platform: Richard Stockton is notable for his pro-military views when the country is shifting towards isolationism. After the War of 1812, Stockton fought to have the United States declare war against Algeria again for piracy and interfering with American trade. He and his son have also been prominent donors for the American Colonization Society, which seeks to establish a free nation for former slaves on the African West Coast. Stockton favors a stronger national government and treasury.


Vice Presidential Nominee: Daniel Rodney
  • Notable Positions: Governor of Delaware
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Daniel Rodney is the patriarch of the Rodney Family, a family of wealthy farmers, merchants, and politicians who dominate Delaware’s political community. His brother is Speaker of Delaware’s State Senate. Rodney has been active in politics since 1810, but only succeeded in attaining public office after the War of 1812 discredited his Democratic-Republican opposition. Rodney presided over some of the worst episodes of the War and was forced to call upon most of Delaware’s Revolutionary War veterans to help organize the state’s defenses.He is one of the few Federalist alive that still enjoy a national profile. He is known for being temperate, sympathetic, and consistently religious.
  • Platform: Rodney’s political career has focused both on civil defense and economics. In the early part of his career, Rodney was active in strengthening the state militia. His work on defenses helped ensure that Delaware could defend itself without help from the federal government. In the latter half of his governorship, Rodney instituted a state tax and granted a license to the Wilmington and Philadelphia Turnpike Company to alleviate some of the state’s debt. He and his brother oppose slavery and believe the system can be ended via manumissions, the act of a slave owner voluntarily freeing his or her slaves. In all other affairs, Rodney is a moderate Federalist who believes in stronger national government.

OTHER CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: DeWitt Clinton
  • Notable Positions: Governor of New York, United States Senator from New York, Mayor of New York City, New York State Assemblyman
  • Party Affiliation: N/A (formerly Democratic-Republican Party)
  • Biography: DeWitt Clinton is the head of New York’s Clinton family, a nephew of the recently deceased Vice President George Clinton, and a former confidant of George Washington. Though he lacks military experience, DeWitt Clinton has often drawn upon the memory of his father, a military war hero, to engage with former veterans and the state militia. As Mayor of New York he was known for personally quelling riots and has, notably, defended Catholic immigrants from angry mobs. He is an avid proponent of the fine arts and is extremely interested in natural science. He has also overseen the Erie Canal, a massive project to connect Lake Erie to the upper Hudson River. The project is expected to finish ahead of schedule and under budget.
  • Platform: Although an adherent to Jeffersonian principles of personal liberty and states rights, Clinton shares some interests with many Federalists, especially on economic issues. He supports the use of the federal government to build manufacturing, banks, roads, and canals. These views led him to be deposed by the Democratic-Republican Party in 1815. To counteract this assault on his authority, Clinton has relied on patronage. Many of Clinton’s personal friends hold positions of power while Federalist and Democratic-Republican rivals have been eliminated. Clinton believes that the federal government can sponsor public works projects but wishes to impose some restrictions on the Bank of the United States. The Erie Canal Project left New York insulated from the Panic of 1819 and,thus, Clinton has remained ambivalent on the issue and blamed the episode on a lack of public moderation. He supports the abolition of slavery. Some officials, including Thomas Jefferson himself, believe that Clinton orchestrated the Missouri Compromise by calling his congressional allies to oppose Missouri’s admission to the Union.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 15:09 on Jan 10, 2016

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015
DeWitt Clinton needs to get back in the saddle!

The Missouri compromise looks like the best thing we abolitionists can hope for, it seems, and as President, Clinton had been able to save the country from the horrible war with England which had been started by the Pinckney administration. So, as far as I am concerned, he is the best of the lot.

Regarding the vice president: I don't really care who will serve under Clinton, as long as he is loyal.

Sax Mortar
Aug 24, 2004
Wait, so DeWitt Clinton finished a massive government project ahead of schedule and under budget...and also basically single handedly orchestrated the Missouri compromise apparently? What a boss.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

troubled teen posted:

Wait, so DeWitt Clinton finished a massive government project ahead of schedule and under budget...and also basically single handedly orchestrated the Missouri compromise apparently? What a boss.

DeWitt ran the Erie Canal project well, but a good portion of its success was the result of factors beyond his control. The Panic of 1819 was a spectacular boon for the canal and Clinton's personal career.

quote:

The Panic of 1819 did not adversely affect the canal, rather, it had a positive impact on construction. Fearing reduced prices and poor harvests, many farmers went to work on the canal, and the increased competition and labor pool shrunk contract bids and decreased construction costs by 30-40%. By 1821 there were nine thousand men at work on the canal, and with an average expenditure of $26,241 per mile, many more emigrated to the western part of the state seeking canal work or business opportunities, often doubling the population of canal towns.

DeWitt Clinton's role in the latter is disputed, but Jefferson and his supporters were convinced that Clinton was the real power behind the lame duck freshman congressman who tried to prevent Missouri's admission. When Tallmadge received a convenient promotion to Lieutenant-Governor of New York a few years later, Jefferson's account was accepted as the gospel truth within the Democratic-Republican Party. For what it's worth, Clinton milked Tallmadge for all he was worth when the Amendment proved popular in the North.

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015
Anyway, in the case of his election, would Clinton still be the 5th president, or the 5th and 7th one?

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Ibogaine posted:

Anyway, in the case of his election, would Clinton still be the 5th president, or the 5th and 7th one?

Grover Cleveland was considered to be the 22nd and 24th President, so Clinton would be the 5th and 7th if he won.

He would also be the first politically unaligned President and the first President since Adams to be re-elected.

Sax Mortar
Aug 24, 2004

QuoProQuid posted:

DeWitt ran the Erie Canal project well, but a good portion of its success was the result of factors beyond his control. The Panic of 1819 was a spectacular boon for the canal and Clinton's personal career.


DeWitt Clinton's role in the latter is disputed, but Jefferson and his supporters were convinced that Clinton was the real power behind the lame duck freshman congressman who tried to prevent Missouri's admission. When Tallmadge received a convenient promotion to Lieutenant-Governor of New York a few years later, Jefferson's account was accepted as the gospel truth within the Democratic-Republican Party. For what it's worth, Clinton milked Tallmadge for all he was worth when the Amendment proved popular in the North.

Just throwing out there, once more, that this thread is fantastic and extremely interesting.

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015

troubled teen posted:

Just throwing out there, once more, that this thread is fantastic and extremely interesting.

I agree. I just finished reading Gore Vidal's "Burr", which I wouldn't have discovered without this thread, and the rest of Vidal's "Empire" novels are on their way here right now. :)

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




DeWitt Clinton it is, then.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade
Clinton 2016 1992 1820

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)
Turns out we like political dynasties. Perhaps we're the real monarchists?

But yeah, Clinton seems the best here in this one party state.

Octatonic
Sep 7, 2010

foobardog posted:

Turns out we like political dynasties. Perhaps we're the real monarchists?

But yeah, Clinton seems the best here in this one party state.


My secret plan coming to fruition, more like.

Octatonic posted:

While Adams and Burr are entertaining, sure, what I find even more entertaining is the possibility of establishing an even earlier Clinton dynasty. Is this Clinton related to our soon to be supreme overlord? Well, no, given that Slick Willie's surname comes from his stepdad! However, think of the possibilities. The Roosevelts, Kennedys, and Bushes all establish themselves much later. We can make an American autocracy where power is even more inheritable than it is today!

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)

Octatonic posted:

My secret plan coming to fruition, more like.

In Seattle, we have a popular retiring Representative, Jim McDermott. A Joe McDermott, whose father is Jim McDermott ran for city council and won. His father is a different Jim McDermott. Joe is now running for Rep. Jim's seat.

Basically, I'm 90% certain Joe is just coasting on the last name being the same as a popular other candidate. So this works!

We also had a John Adams running who claimed to be distantly related to the founder John Adams. Washington state politics is stupid sometimes.

Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man
None of these people are from Massachusetts what is this BULLSHIT? None of these people are qualified for the Presidency...

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich
What I think is unusual is that there is no 100% pro-slavery candidate here, certainly at least not on the level Andrew Jackson would soon be.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
One more week until we can start not electing Jackson.

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
but where will the nation get its supply of jackson quotes from :ohdear:

Rogue Copter Pilot
Apr 12, 2005

a dead whale or a stove boat

Just leaving this here because I'll forget to do it by the time 1824 rolls around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0max6HBUmd0

oystertoadfish
Jun 17, 2003

i'm not feeling the vp-only strategy, federalism doesn't need to go down like that. i went with clinton

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015

Lycus posted:

One more week until we can start not electing Jackson.

By the eternal!

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RagnarokAngel
Oct 5, 2006

Black Magic Extraordinaire

Corek posted:

What I think is unusual is that there is no 100% pro-slavery candidate here, certainly at least not on the level Andrew Jackson would soon be.

I can't wait till we get past the civil war I feel too many decisions are based on how the person feels about slaves because...yeah.

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