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General_Disturbed posted:The news media has mostly become lukewarm about the whole thing as the news cycle rolls on. You'll see them putting up an article about how the militia is begging for supplies, days late. That picture of stuff they are asking for was being passed around a couple of days ago and places like CNN are only just now writing on it. This seems like a good thing since in the national attention they are essentially being treated like jokes. How much more militia members are actually on site they asked that one convoy of psychos to gently caress off because they wanted the "long guns" to be put away (ie they could not feed that many people on the support theyve received sustainably)
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Jan 11, 2016 03:12
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BaurusJA posted:I am starting to think that the FBI should let them all congregate at that location and then just build walls around it like someone here suggested. Turn it into a prison, serves these assholes right. My thought process is similar, but involves carpet bombs rather than walls.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:14
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Hey let's just wrap this whole situation up in a nice neat "everything going wrong right now" present. Maybe Trump will massively gently caress up and encourage these yahoos on national TV, then they'll start patrolling the town since the Sheriff has deserted his post to be a government lapdog or whatever, and in their infinite wisdom gun down a black kid because [insert racist excuse here]. Let's just blow the loving lid off of 2016 before it's a month old. Considering how much these guys want a shooting war with the feds, I wouldn't put it past them to be dumb enough to force their hand.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:14
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At this point, I just want something - ANYTHING - to happen because idle speculation is boring. 
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Jan 11, 2016 03:17
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Crain posted:Hey let's just wrap this whole situation up in a nice neat "everything going wrong right now" present. I still think that this would cause far more problems than it would solve, but the prospect of lancing the boil grows more emotionally appealing all the time.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:19
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Crain posted:Hey let's just wrap this whole situation up in a nice neat "everything going wrong right now" present. To be honest what I expect to happen is that the government will tell people to not go watch birds at the bird sanctuary but a few people are going to anyway. The militia are going to shoot one of them and end up on the hook for actual/attempted murder.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:27
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Cythereal posted:I still think that this would cause far more problems than it would solve, but the prospect of lancing the boil grows more emotionally appealing all the time. Oh don't get me wrong, that's not a hypothetical about solving the situation.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:31
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Treason sure seems like no biggy atm.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:36
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General_Disturbed posted:The news media has mostly become lukewarm about the whole thing as the news cycle rolls on. You'll see them putting up an article about how the militia is begging for supplies, days late. That picture of stuff they are asking for was being passed around a couple of days ago and places like CNN are only just now writing on it. This seems like a good thing since in the national attention they are essentially being treated like jokes. wha? the lack of response is emboldening militias? they're only going to go further if they're ignored? i could've sworn i predicted this and was told i was insane and the militias would be disheartened at how they were being ignored/mocked. nothing about these militia freaks is funny. they are dangerous, hateful people who will only get more and more violent if they perceive weakness on the gov's part. the fbi needs to stop dicking around and actually blockade and arrest these motherfuckers before copycats start showing up
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Jan 11, 2016 05:08
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Thump! posted:They've read the critically(comically) acclaimed(despised) Ghost by John Ringo? I have been told John Ringo has piles of assault rifles in his home. I watched him storm out of a panel at a con once. To be fair the other panelist was being a douche, it is kind of lovely to open with a reference to death threats regarding other panelists. But that's probably exactly why they want the tampons.
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Jan 11, 2016 06:24
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Nobody answered my question regarding why Bundy refused help offered by that other stupid militia group from yesterday.
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Jan 11, 2016 06:56
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Mr Interweb posted:Nobody answered my question regarding why Bundy refused help offered by that other stupid militia group from yesterday.
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Jan 11, 2016 07:01
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FilthyImp posted:Presumably, he noticed that they're not exactly being welcomed as liberators, and another camp full of armed perimeter guards would make it look even worse for his group? Sure, but I thought the whole point of this stupid insurrection was to recruit more like-minded patriots?
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Jan 11, 2016 07:06
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Mr Interweb posted:Nobody answered my question regarding why Bundy refused help offered by that other stupid militia group from yesterday. Bundy seems to be trying to make his group out to be a peaceful movement of the people, all of the video stuff they've been putting up lately has them talking about how most of them aren't even armed anymore and they are all harmless. I dunno if this is some narrative he's spinning so if the FBI wipes them out the news will be sympathetic. Suddenly having 20+ guys in full tactical bullshit showing up and flexing all over the news probably poo poo all over that narrative. Also there seems to be constant infighting between all of the militia groups. None of them seem to be on the same page with any other groups. At one of the meetings a few nights back one guy from x militia stood up to call out y and z militias for being all racists and white supremacists and said the town should ask -them- to leave.
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Jan 11, 2016 07:07
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Imagine if the militias started fighting each other! 
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Jan 11, 2016 07:11
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It's because, contrary to what half the posters in this thread believes, he doesn't actually want to ~die a martyr~ I mean seriously what the gently caress. If you really think these walmart cowboys ACTUALLY want to be shot at you're a goddamn idiot. Ammon Bundy lives/lived in an ultraconservative antigovernment hugbox for his entire life. He and his band of yokels thought they were going to capture the hearts and minds of the nation, they'd get a national platform, and they'd invoke their Sovereign Citizen magical spells/they'd get support from prominent GOP leaders. They thought there'd be so much public support that the government would have no choice but to pardon Cliven and relinquish land and let all of the brave patriots go home unscathed and uncharged. This is why Ammon constantly whines that no one is listening or giving them a platform (or else they'd have everyone on their side!) This is why Ammon doesn't other militias showing up (because they might actually get him shot at) This is why they're ignoring the sheriff (the community can't possibly actually want them to leave)
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Jan 11, 2016 07:25
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Onion Knight posted:It's because, contrary to what half the posters in this thread believes, he doesn't actually want to ~die a martyr~ Haha yeah but a bunch of people with him there DO, and when they're told they're going to surrender like cowards or whatever they're going to flip out
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Jan 11, 2016 07:41
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Except when black SUV's with dudes in helmets holding on to the sides start rolling towards the compound, very few people will actually retain the will to die. They do like talking about it, though.
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Jan 11, 2016 07:48
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Vahakyla posted:Except when black SUV's with dudes in helmets holding on to the sides start rolling towards the compound, very few people will actually retain the will to die. Just takes one being serious about it to start some crazy poo poo happening, though, and I bet at least 1 is totally sincere. The ranchers may be comfy and wealthy welfare queens that are just trying to throw political weight around, but the people they're now in bed with sure aren't and likely don't see much to hang around for.
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Jan 11, 2016 07:58
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^^^ Bundy has turned all(afaik) the more serious militia extremists away Epic High Five posted:Haha yeah but a bunch of people with him there DO, and when they're told they're going to surrender like cowards or whatever they're going to flip out Yeah they're not. If they had any intention of actually, you know, fighting and dying, they wouldn't have holed up in a bird sanctuary or whatever in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. People have already just wandered off and as this wears on more will. The maniacs who might actually flip out are those III%ers that Bundy has turned away. He turned them away because, again, they might actually get shot at and Bundy & co. have no desire to get shot at. Vahakyla is right in that they love to talk about it, and that's it. They have no intention to die and if they did this whole thing would be way different. e: Just to be clear I also think the feds are being way too passive about this whole thing. I think they should release a statement saying something on the order of: "You've broken X laws, and your punishment will be Y, if you leave right now. If you stay past sundown today your punishment will be Y+1 and it'll get worse from there." Like, I really don't think any of the bundie bros right now expect anything worse than a slap on the wrist when this is all over (see: "We haven't touched anything! This is a peaceful situation! Here's a thousand sovereign citizen words that means I'm not doing anything wrong" etc etc) and for them to know they're probably looking at 10-15 years if they don't scurry out with their tails between their legs right this instant is going to break the resolve of these true, proud, real patriotic american heroes. Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 07:59
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General_Disturbed posted:The news media has mostly become lukewarm about the whole thing as the news cycle rolls on. You'll see them putting up an article about how the militia is begging for supplies, days late. That picture of stuff they are asking for was being passed around a couple of days ago and places like CNN are only just now writing on it. This seems like a good thing since in the national attention they are essentially being treated like jokes. i for one am shocked that delusional anti government types are grasping at straws to demonstrate their masculine virility in the face of a cold, effeminiate government. this is surely the first steps in the fall of the american empire Mr Interweb posted:Nobody answered my question regarding why Bundy refused help offered by that other stupid militia group from yesterday. because they're incompetent morons who are going to bicker endlessly about ideological purity and the proper steps to achieve revolution and uh wait wait hold on *turns monitor on* oh haha you were talking about the bundy standoff 2016 and not this thread General_Disturbed posted:Also there seems to be constant infighting between all of the militia groups. None of them seem to be on the same page with any other groups. At one of the meetings a few nights back one guy from x militia stood up to call out y and z militias for being all racists and white supremacists and said the town should ask -them- to leave. everyone's a general of the american revolution 2.0 nobody wants to be a footsoldier. i mean who actually cosplays as the freezing new yorker with frostbite and trench foot muttering gently caress this under his breath at valley forge? no everyone is washington, just fifty washingtons all crowded around a crude wooden table in a hut eating scorched ham and beating their fists on the table about the next steps forward boner confessor fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 08:03
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The people turned away a couple days ago were a specific group, the pacific patriots network. That group is an umbrella for a few regional right wing militia. It turns out it's at least de facto headed by a guy named Brandon Curtiss. People reading the thread way too much may remember that name- he was one of the people presenting themselves as leaders of the militants early on- I mistakenly said he was leading the occupiers. Curtiss also runs 3% Idaho, apparently. So the micro read here is that this is infighting between Curtiss and his groups, who want to co-opt the attention the Bundys are getting, and the Bundys. The macro read here is General_Disturbed posted:Also there seems to be constant infighting between all of the militia groups. None of them seem to be on the same page with any other groups. At one of the meetings a few nights back one guy from x militia stood up to call out y and z militias for being all racists and white supremacists and said the town should ask -them- to leave. Right wing groups, especially white supremacist groups (here I mean openly racist ones, stormfronters etc) are among the most fractious fringe movements I've looked at. Onion Knight posted:Bundy has turned all(afaik) the more serious militia extremists away They have not. They've turned other groups away, but have generally welcomed individuals that meet their (inconsistent, non-rigorous) standards. This has included a number of quite disturbed individuals, such as Eyelid Chum.
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Jan 11, 2016 08:08
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Crain posted:Hold up, let me hook this generator up to your bike. Listen, I realize your whole gimmick here is to poo poo post like it matters. But seriously, knock it off. Xand_Man posted:There are women in the compound. They brought wives and girlfriends. honestly, how loving retarded are their women that they didn't bring tampons? I mean jesus christ, it's not like they went straight from the rally to the sit in too.
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Jan 11, 2016 08:26
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quote:honestly, how loving retarded are their women that they didn't bring tampons? I mean jesus christ, it's not like they went straight from the rally to the sit in too. Militia husband: WE GOTTA GET TO OREGON, PACK THE GUNS, WE LEAVE RIGHT NOW Wife: Won't it be cold there? We should get some winter socks, coats, maybe some food and-- MH: GET IN THE TRUCK, WE'RE LEAVING NOW, JUST GRAB THE GUNS AND GET IN THE loving TRUCK W: What about food, maybe a couple cases of bottled water? How long are we gonna be there, because I might need some personal th-- MH: WHY AREN'T YOU CARRYING GUNS TO THE TRUCK RIGHT NOW? OUR FREEDOM IS AT STAKE! JUST GET THE GUNS INTO THE TRUCK, YOU I CAN TAKE OR LEAVE
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Jan 11, 2016 08:35
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tampons are useful to plug bullet holes the feds drill in your patriot body, ky jelly is tactical lube to more quickly put on the gauntlets of freedom
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Jan 11, 2016 09:03
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An incredibly charitable reading would be that they are using the list to signal there are women there with them.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:30
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Discendo Vox posted:An incredibly charitable reading would be that they are using the list to signal there are women there with them. Given that they are free to go buy whatever they want they are really signalling an unwillingness to pay their own way.
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Jan 11, 2016 10:10
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Grey Fox posted:Since they're asking for money, I'm going to see if I can send them a stack of these: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/11/23/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-religious-lesson/ http://www.cybergenica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/100-dollar-bill-Christian-tract-page.pdf http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harrison-Million-Dollar-Bill-Gospel-Tract-Pack-of-100-/150815937434 http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-x-United-States-Pressed-Pennies-Christian-10-Commandment-Gospel-Tract-Penny-/231509442085
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Jan 11, 2016 11:06
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I am still trying to talk myself out of sending them a 5 lb bag of sugar free haribo bears with a bullshit letter about gummi bears being a favorite "Oscar Mike" snack for ARE TROOPS because of their durability and ability to keep energy levels up while walking patrol on the fence line or some poo poo to encourage them to just eat them by the handful.
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Jan 11, 2016 12:25
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Onion Knight posted:It's because, contrary to what half the posters in this thread believes, he doesn't actually want to ~die a martyr~ Ammon may not want to die - he's getting plenty of attention and will be guaranteed wingnut welfare for the rest of his life. He's on the gravy train as long as he can make it out of there dignity and person intact. His troops still have nothing more than the fifteen seconds talking to a reporter or making off with the donation money will buy them, if they go home they go back to being nothing. They are dumb as bricks and desperate for meaning and attention and more than one of them will fantasize about dying a martyr in a glorious gunfight with the feds. If the feds roll in armed with the attention of arresting them all, they do so without control of the situation. MAYBE Ammon will have enough control to keep things civilized, MAYBE they'll lay down arms and go quietly, MAYBE they won't be drunk and belligerent enough to fire of a few "warning" shots at the SUVs and trigger ten thousand rounds of reprisal. There's an excellent chance any attempt to arrest will result in at least a couple of casualties, miles away from a functioning hospital. Well so what if a few dumb hicks (or their wives) take a bullet for the cause? Because anyone who does WILL become a martyr, and you're going to be looking at their flag-wrapped dumb hick face for the next ten years, on posters, on billboards, on TV, at Republican rallies (slime like Cruz and Huckabee will drop their opposition to the occupation as soon as it's politically useful). It's an election year, and a bullet-riddled martyr will finally vindicate what talk radio have been screaming for years about Obama being mad with power and plotting to kill patriotic Americans. A corpse or two laid at Obama's feet could add a crucial extra percentage or two to the polls, maybe even buy the Whitehouse. There's already enough of a martyr-worship culture in American films and TV, and it filters through to poison peoples thinking today, but it can get worse. In Palestine kids grow up knowing the names and kill-counts of their favourite martyrs, they collect them like baseball statistics and dream about the day when maybe, if they're lucky and work hard enough, they too can blow themselves to pieces for some dumb religion or another. I'm not sure if you've had a home-grown suicide bombing in the US, but the only thing standing between where you are now and fifty a year is psychology. You really, really don't need one or more of these hicks sanctified with bullets for sitting in a bird sanctuary and demanding snacks. When this fizzles out and is abandoned (in six weeks or six months or however long it takes), the militias will take the lesson that they didn't have enough public support, that their problem was with their own organization, they'll look inward. They won't take the view that they needed more guns, more bombs, more violence, because that's not how they were beaten. The feds barely made an appearance. And they'll have a harder time drumming up support for another occupation given how lovely this bunch have been to the local county. Even if you think the feds should be more aggressive about blocking roads or cutting power, there is no way that driving in there loaded for action is worth it. The political blowback from anyone getting shot over this is too high.
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Jan 11, 2016 12:27
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Fargo Fukes posted:When this fizzles out and is abandoned (in six weeks or six months or however long it takes), the militias will take the lesson that they didn't have enough public support, that their problem was with their own organization, they'll look inward. They won't take the view that they needed more guns, more bombs, more violence, because that's not how they were beaten. The feds barely made an appearance. And they'll have a harder time drumming up support for another occupation given how lovely this bunch have been to the local county. As long as they are in the media and have a platform to get their message out nationally they have zero incentive to leave, beyond personal finances. If the media starts ignoring them the math will change but that assumes they can't come up with a stunt to get attention back like taking down fences to allow patriot cows free reign of the traitor wildlife preserve. If the BLM can't properly enforce the grazing system they will have achieved the objectives they can realistically hope for whether local ranchers initially take advantage of it or not. It would give them a victory if not of substance then of PR value and a precedent for future, better prepared actions.
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Jan 11, 2016 13:08
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SocketWrench posted:Listen, I realize your whole gimmick here is to poo poo post like it matters. But seriously, knock it off. Rich coming from the guy who keeps trying to pretend these guys are simply squatting on a campground. And I guess the OKC Bombing was just a case of illegal parking? Ammon himself doesn't want to die because he's just trying to pull off a land grab, but his messaging is so bad that he's now getting too many true believers who are more willing to start shooting (Those militia guys he turned away the other day). If more are showing up every day like General_Disturbed said then he can't keep turning them away before someone calls "false flag" or does the body snachers scream at him and questions whether or not he's a true conservative believer. Or if some other group rolls in with way more guys and decides they want to take over. Which is why there should have been a road block of the area. It's much easier to open dialogue with a group when you can keep the situation static. It's hard to negotiate a surrender when there's a new group of people there every few days. Crain fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 13:15
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Tampons are actually really good at quickly treating bullet wounds, it is possible they want them to prep for the coming last stand.
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Jan 11, 2016 13:33
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Jarmak posted:Tampons are actually really good at quickly treating bullet wounds, it is possible they want them to prep for the coming last stand. Pretty much. This device just went public looking for FDA approval:  Basically a giant syringe full of tampons.
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Jan 11, 2016 13:37
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Crain posted:
Say those crazy III%er militias want to get past the road block though, to see their true king. They could escalate things by having a firefight with the police
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Jan 11, 2016 13:53
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Ninkobei posted:Say those crazy III%er militias want to get past the road block though, to see their true king. They could escalate things by having a firefight with the police Yeah? And then that's on them. I'm really not sure why "criminals are going to break the law" is suddenly an accepted reason in D&D for letting them break the law. Should we stop passing laws all together then?
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Jan 11, 2016 14:01
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You can't outlaw murder!
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Jan 11, 2016 14:03
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Onion Knight posted:Just to be clear I also think the feds are being way too passive about this whole thing. I think they should release a statement saying something on the order of: "You've broken X laws, and your punishment will be Y, if you leave right now. If you stay past sundown today your punishment will be Y+1 and it'll get worse from there." Yeah, except the political win here for the feds is for these revolutionary heroes to eventually just leave because there's no point in their being there. Your earlier summary was right, I think - their fantasy about what would happen (widespread support, local support, national stage) has not materialised, and they're now in the awkward position of having no real leverage and nothing to do. As soon as federal pressure beyond "you should leave" is exerted, it can be spun into a narrative. I personally think that this whole thing is really valuable. The silent majority has not risen up. The feds haven't gone in with the armoured cars and the tear gas. You've just got a bunch of self-styled rugged individualists, brought up in an echo chamber manifest destiny and entitlement, who are hilariously out of their depth on every level of this situation. They're unprepared, incoherent, and are running purely on the attitude that things are terribly unfair. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the only people who don't think that they're just a bunch of self-aggrandising pricks are, well, not the sort of people you'd let babysit. You've basically got this whole ideaology that's rubbing up against reality, and it's revealing the ideaology to be the stuff of cowboy fantasy. It's like getting a creationist trapped in a lab or something - a rare opportunity to say "ok, so, what's the plan?". Ammon Bundy is presumably having a miserable time right now - no dignified exit available, and the sort of scumbags who actually agree with him keep turning up and wanting to join in and turn it into even more of a shitfest than it already is. Must be quite a tightrope to walk.
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Jan 11, 2016 14:13
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Crain posted:And I guess the OKC Bombing was just a case of illegal parking? Shitposting quote:Ammon himself doesn't want to die because he's just trying to pull off a land grab, Already said as much quote:but his messaging is so bad that he's now getting too many true believers who are more willing to start shooting (Those militia guys he turned away the other day). If more are showing up every day like General_Disturbed said then he can't keep turning them away before someone calls "false flag" or does the body snachers scream at him and questions whether or not he's a true conservative believer. Or if some other group rolls in with way more guys and decides they want to take over. then they infight, at which point who gives a poo poo, let'em. quote:Which is why there should have been a road block of the area. Said this already too quote:It's much easier to open dialogue with a group when you can keep the situation static. It's hard to negotiate a surrender when there's a new group of people there every few days. and if they get the nutters in there determined to shoot and actually try, then they've got the ok to roll in and plaster the place. So far rolling the feds in isn't going to do anything but launch a bunch of "ifs" and i'd rather the feds avoid the bad "ifs". Letting this thing collapse which it still shows signs of doing (lack of support, some leaving, no supplies, people needing to get back to their livelyhood, infighting, etc) is the best course of action to take because then the feds can arrest and fine these dipshits in a less charged situation where the "ifs" don't exist.
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Jan 11, 2016 14:20
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McDowell posted:You can't outlaw murder! If you outlaw murder, only criminals will murde..... ...oh.
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