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Geisladisk posted:It doesn't really flesh out much of anything, but it tells the viewer what he needs to know. These are the space nazis, this is the army of space good guys, the space nazis blew up their planet and now they want to kill the space nazi space base. You don't need to have a working model of the interstellar realpolitik-state of the galaxy to appreciate it - It's a heroic fantasy. Yeah, it's neat that accompanying material fleshes it out, but the average moviegoer doesn't give a poo poo and it's not required to enjoy the movie. When people are walking out of the theatre not understanding who the bad guys are, who the good guys are, what their relation to the other good guys is, and why the bad guys blew up that planet, then no, the movie has not successfully told the viewer everything they need to know. It doesn't need a working model of the interstellar realpolitik-state of the galaxy, but it does need to do some very basic joining of the dots.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:01
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I guess the people you went to see it with took a nap during Hux's five-minute Hitler-speech where he explained exactly why they were blowing up that planet. 
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Jan 11, 2016 15:04
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Geisladisk posted:I guess the people you went to see it with took a nap during Hux's five-minute Hitler-speech where he explained exactly why they were blowing up that planet. More than just the people I went with, check around. I'm sure the stuff that used to fill all the gaping holes in the final product is on the cutting room floor. Maybe that's Abrams fault, maybe it was a directive from the Disney producers, but the problem is there.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:27
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NTRabbit posted:More than just the people I went with, check around. I'm sure the stuff that used to fill all the gaping holes in the final product is on the cutting room floor. Maybe that's Abrams fault, maybe it was a directive from the Disney producers, but the problem is there. I find it hard to believe that people can't look at stormtroopers (especially after they round up the villagers and execute them in the town square) and not know that they are bad guys are in the movie.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:33
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Spiderdrake posted:it's not bad writing, it's average writing. And it's written pretty much to the average of the six movies before it, which are neither as good or as bad as people act like they are. But he's spending at least some of his $tarWar$ money on something else: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h-millionaires/ http://www.pephousing.org/gradyranch/
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Jan 11, 2016 15:39
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Those guys shooting at Harrison Ford... were bad?
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Jan 11, 2016 15:39
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Icon Of Sin posted:I find it hard to believe that people can't look at stormtroopers (especially after they round up the villagers and execute them in the town square) and not know that they are bad guys are in the movie. Yeah, no, that's not what I'm talking about
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Jan 11, 2016 15:40
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There were talky bits like the Hitler-style speech and the part with the Resistance leaders standing around the holoprojector that explained the motivations of both groups, and the opening crawl said that the First Order are Imperial remnants and that a group called the Resistance are fighting them (if you don't know from the past material that this means the First Order are the bad guys, you find this out in the opening scene). The only thing I thought it didn't adequately explain is why Leia's private army of a couple dozen fighter craft were the only people standing up to this massive force with a planet-sized multiple planet destroying laser. This was explained in cut material that probably should have stayed in.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:46
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Geisladisk posted:It doesn't really flesh out much of anything, but it tells the viewer what he needs to know. These are the space nazis, this is the army of space good guys, the space nazis blew up their planet and now they want to kill the space nazi space base. You don't need to have a working model of the interstellar realpolitik-state of the galaxy to appreciate it - It's a heroic fantasy. Yeah, it's neat that accompanying material fleshes it out, but the average moviegoer doesn't give a poo poo and it's not required to enjoy the movie. That's really disingenuous, though, because you're ignoring the fact that the movie is a sequel. There are already established space nazis, who were other guys that were definitely beaten. There are already established good guys, who were other guys that definitely won and apparently still hold political power. But now there's NEW space nazis that are able to build a NEW superweapon except completely secretly and without the budget of the entire empire like before and the government doesn't care that they exist. Now there's NEW good guys because the writers don't know how to change the power dynamic to make the protagonists not a ragtag team fighting the power and they apparently get disrespected offscreen and they have a counter-intuitive name. It'd be like a Warhammer 41k sequel where the Emperor wakes up, vanquishes Chaos and every alien offscreen, starts a new Golden Age with his new army of Space Wizards (that are 100% completely identical to Space Marines), and then is betrayed by Blorus his right hand man who converted to the Dark Side and took half the Space Wizards with him. It's so disrespectful to the source material that it seems like a non-sequitor.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:00
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My question is can the Starkiller Base move? It would seem like it must be able to. It eats a sun to fire, so it must be able to move between systems to keep firing. But then why bother with the whole firing bit? Why not go to the enemy system and eat their sun? Or just a bit of it? Or do a fly-by and steal their moons and poo poo like that? Or just throw asteroids at the enemy rather than flying around entire planets. It also introduces some tactical possibilities. If planets can be moved, then surely the Starkiller Base has invented the technology to defeat it. Planets can dodge its fire. Hell, they can fall back out of systems and regroup elsewhere. They can hide in different systems, or duck behind gas giants when star destroyers come near. Basically I want the next Star Wars film to not have any people featured, but filmed entirely from the perspective of planets going to war with each other.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:15
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Ubik_Lives posted:Basically I want the next Star Wars film to not have any people featured, but filmed entirely from the perspective of planets going to war with each other. That would make it Planet Wars, not Star Wars you idiot!
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Jan 11, 2016 16:20
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Yknow eating someone's sun or ramming multiple large asteroids into a planet would be just as effective and probably a lot cheaper the building and staffing a mobile planet. Hey, couldn't the planet base just fly into a system, eat their sun, then shoot a different systems planets? Instead of wasting a perfectly good system so remote yet well supplied they were able to build a mobile, sun eating planet sized base prototype, that also worked the first time fired?
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Jan 11, 2016 16:29
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Saalkin posted:That would make it Planet Wars, not Star Wars you idiot! No but you see any Sun is a fortiori a star, so they have to use the stars to fuel their wars. Thus, Star Wars. Actually maybe it would be like the Transformers movie except EVERYONE is like Unicron.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:30
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Ubik_Lives posted:My question is can the Starkiller Base move? I was a little puzzled about this too. I originally thought Starkiller just used its native sun as a power source, but then it seemed like firing actually consumed the entire sun (what with it going dark and everything - was it supposed to reignite later on or something? That wasn't really very clear). I think the sun drain is supposed to be temporary, because we see the Starkiller fire once (on Hosnian or whatever) and the system's sun is clearly still shining and active and it hasn't moved at that point (because Finn knows where to find it). So it must be supposed to darken the sun briefly while charging and then the sun just recovers? Or the sun is actually fine, and the Starkiller is simply consuming all the light/energy leaving the star like some forcefield-dyson sphere? Maybe the First Order designers just figured they would never get off more than a couple shots before some plucky heroes blew it up, so there was no plan for further shooting.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:32
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Broken Loose posted:That's really disingenuous, though, because you're ignoring the fact that the movie is a sequel. There are already established space nazis, who were other guys that were definitely beaten. There are already established good guys, who were other guys that definitely won and apparently still hold political power. But now there's NEW space nazis that are able to build a NEW superweapon except completely secretly and without the budget of the entire empire like before and the government doesn't care that they exist. Now there's NEW good guys because the writers don't know how to change the power dynamic to make the protagonists not a ragtag team fighting the power and they apparently get disrespected offscreen and they have a counter-intuitive name. Possibly. The movie didn't really leave any questions that I felt needed answering, but of course other people's mileage may vary. quote:I was a little puzzled about this too. I originally thought Starkiller just used its native sun as a power source, but then it seemed like firing actually consumed the entire sun (what with it going dark and everything - was it supposed to reignite later on or something? That wasn't really very clear). Just before being destroyed, the Starkiller's sun wasn't so much "darkened" as completely gone. I'm pretty sure that it's supposed to consume an entire sun whenever it fires, so it follows logically that it can move around.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:34
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This is descending rapidly into Star Wars' old "how does the hyperdrive work?" "very well, thank you!" territory. It's Star Wars, nobody expects its science to make any sense whatsoever. Doubly-so with JJ Abrams, whose previous scientific masterpieces have included "here's a vial filled with red goop that can open a planet-eating black hole"
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Jan 11, 2016 16:39
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I thought it was neat that hyperdrive lets them fly through Dr Who's opening credits tunnel.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:42
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I would kill for a Transformers movie that wasn't Bayformers. That poo poo is so loving bad, my brain actually tries to retreat. I don't know where it'd go and somehow, i don't think it'd care - it just wants OUT!
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Jan 11, 2016 16:51
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Irate Tree posted:I would kill for a Transformers movie that wasn't Bayformers. That poo poo is so loving bad, my brain actually tries to retreat. I don't know where it'd go and somehow, i don't think it'd care - it just wants OUT!
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Jan 11, 2016 16:56
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Saint Drogo posted:wake me from cryosleep when they finally make a Beast Wars movie. Complete with a Megatron that talks to his own T-Rex Head Hand, yes...
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Jan 11, 2016 16:58
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FrostyPox posted:
Horrifying Apollodorus posted:But he's spending at least some of his $tarWar$ money on something else: It is rather nice of him but remember he is sticking his middle finger at people who wouldn't let him build a theater. Irate Tree posted:I would kill for a Transformers movie that wasn't Bayformers. That poo poo is so loving bad, my brain actually tries to retreat. I don't know where it'd go and somehow, i don't think it'd care - it just wants OUT! Go watch the animated movie. It's what I do. Please stop talking about Star Wars.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:15
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. Just googled it, turns out he's a broker.
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Geisladisk posted:Just before being destroyed, the Starkiller's sun wasn't so much "darkened" as completely gone. I'm pretty sure that it's supposed to consume an entire sun whenever it fires, so it follows logically that it can move around. Maybe it's a binary system. Maybe the sun had more than one shot worth of energy in it.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:35
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Taear posted:Maybe it's a binary system. Maybe the sun had more than one shot worth of energy in it. Maybe please stop talking about star wars
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Jan 11, 2016 19:38
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Jonny Nox posted:Maybe please stop talking about star wars How about, as a thread, we all watch Round Vernian Vifam? It's all on youtube, and I've heard it quite good. I mean, just listen to the opening themesong, it owns
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Jan 11, 2016 19:46
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Let's talk about how Hawk and Andy Chamber's Dropfleet Commander is gonna be in hand in about 6 months, killing off any theoretical BFG relaunch while Forgeworld is still busy trying to convince people to jump back to Blood Bowl from Dreadball/Guildball/Kaosball, with miniatures that look to be, from the few photos, in the same 32mm+ scale as Age of Sigmar, putting them out of scale with everyone's existing collections.
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Jan 11, 2016 20:16
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NTRabbit posted:Let's talk about how Hawk and Andy Chamber's Dropfleet Commander is gonna be in hand in about 6 months, killing off any theoretical BFG relaunch while Forgeworld is still busy trying to convince people to jump back to Blood Bowl from Dreadball/Guildball/Kaosball, with miniatures that look to be, from the few photos, in the same 32mm+ scale as Age of Sigmar, putting them out of scale with everyone's existing collections. I hope Hawk sends out an update soon. I know they took off for the holidays and all, but we haven't heard anything in almost a month. 
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Jan 11, 2016 20:41
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Safety Factor posted:The larger scale stuff about Age of Sigmar is wrong though. The Sigmarmen are just meant to be huge. It's not like they changed the lizardmen or dryads when they put out lazy updates for them. Aren't the new chaos models more in line with old marauders and chaos warriors? As for those Blood Bowl models, they could've been larger scale prototypes or something. We'll see when they're actually released. Apparently chaos dudes are also hueg, and Dwarves appear in scale also.
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Jan 11, 2016 20:44
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Safety Factor posted:The larger scale stuff about Age of Sigmar is wrong though. The Sigmarmen are just meant to be huge. It's not like they changed the lizardmen or dryads when they put out lazy updates for them. Aren't the new chaos models more in line with old marauders and chaos warriors? As for those Blood Bowl models, they could've been larger scale prototypes or something. We'll see when they're actually released. Ya from what I heard the new dwarfs are about the size of 28mm heroic humans...
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Jan 11, 2016 20:45
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Maybe it is me who is wrong.
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Jan 11, 2016 20:49
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Safety Factor posted:Maybe it is me who is wrong. No, it is the children who are wrong
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Jan 11, 2016 20:50
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Dug up these things:  I knew the storm-men were terminator sized because they're just meant to be fat. The new bloodblood warriors are roughly the same size as the old chaos warriors, just a tiny bit taller and posed more action-y. The new marauders are apparently huge. I have not seen any of these models in real life. Edit:  They're so fat. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 20:56
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NTRabbit posted:, in the same 32mm+ scale as Age of Sigmar, putting them out of scale with everyone's existing collections. Got pics? I really wanted to join the KS for DFC, but I couldn't defend spending at type of money on something no one else at my club would be interested in 
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Jan 11, 2016 20:57
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Not a viking posted:Got pics? I really wanted to join the KS for DFC, but I couldn't defend spending at type of money on something no one else at my club would be interested in You'll find that these are both on the new 32mm bases they introduced with Marines, but really created for Sigmarines and the new scale of AoS and ported over    Now I don't own any Bloodbowl stuff, but I can't imagine an old bloodbowl human being anywhere near the size of that new one
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Jan 11, 2016 21:08
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NTRabbit posted:You'll find that these are both on the new 32mm bases they introduced with Marines, but really created for Sigmarines and the new scale of AoS and ported over This can't be correct, the bloodbowl pitch has ~29mm squares so they won't position correctly.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:20
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NTRabbit posted:You'll find that these are both on the new 32mm bases they introduced with Marines, but really created for Sigmarines and the new scale of AoS and ported over BB was indeed on a 25mm round base originally, and had similar overhang to those guys. So if those are 32mm bases it's a huge scale increase, and won't fit any of the old stuff. I wouldn't put it past GW, which their recent official and unofficial scale creep (see the newer plastic high elves for the unofficial changes-- they don't fit sizewise with older stuff at all) But how can you tell those guys are on 32s? There's nothing to compare them to size-wise, and they looked like 25s from what I saw.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:30
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Incy posted:This can't be correct, the bloodbowl pitch has ~29mm squares so they won't position correctly. It's possible to change the size of the pitch. I mean, I'm pretty sure it is. Stranger things have happened!
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Jan 11, 2016 21:41
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boom boom boom posted:It's possible to change the size of the pitch. I mean, I'm pretty sure it is. Stranger things have happened! Yes, sorry. I assumed that any new edition being compatible with the existing one would be a design goal.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:43
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Incy posted:Yes, sorry. I assumed that any new edition being compatible with the existing one would be a design goal. There isn't really an existing one, it's been out of print for years
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Jan 11, 2016 21:47
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Incy posted:Yes, sorry. I assumed that any new edition being compatible with the existing one would be a design goal. I mean this is GW we are talking about so shouldn't we assume the exact opposite until they demonstrate otherwise? It would be a very GW thing to do to change the scale to make everyone buy new stuff.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:48
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Incy posted:This can't be correct, the bloodbowl pitch has ~29mm squares so they won't position correctly. New pitch, available exclusively from Forgeworld!
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Jan 11, 2016 22:01
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