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Lemon Curdistan posted:She does in The Origin (she's instrumental in the victory at Solomon, because she breaks into the fortress and starts a civil war between the Deikun and Zabi factions), so I guess we'll find out what Bandai thinks if they do a Zeta retelling like they were planning to at one point. Well, there is Zeta Define. It's not very good.
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Jan 10, 2016 16:25
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Pureauthor posted:Dozle looks so proud in that picture. I like the one from the previous or later game where Garma grows this rad looking ponytail.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:10
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Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what in the hell was that huge energy thing behind Dozle before Big Zam blew up? Also I guess Kamille really really likes to overreact?
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Jan 10, 2016 19:06
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Shoehead posted:Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what in the hell was that huge energy thing behind Dozle before Big Zam blew up? Amuro's a telepath. That was Dozle's rage and defiance. Judau later pulls a similar but even scarier one on Haman.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:17
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Shoehead posted:Oh yeah I forgot to ask, what in the hell was that huge energy thing behind Dozle before Big Zam blew up? Kamille has problems
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Jan 10, 2016 19:19
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Droyer posted:Kamille has problems I said that before I watched the second episode, holy crap he is vindictive!
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Jan 10, 2016 20:59
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Kamille Bidan is literally the angriest teenager in the universe
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Jan 10, 2016 21:18
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Droyer posted:Kamille has problems He's a teenager with problems with lovely parents who's also a newtype. Jerid making fun of his ~name~ was the spark.
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Jan 10, 2016 21:41
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Kuroyama posted:Isn't Garma's issue that he just lacks the skill for his position? And not because of any personality flaws, he just simply wasn't that good of a strategist/fighter/whatever. I remember him actually acknowledging the nepotism that got him as far as he had before he died, and one of his big motivations is trying to prove he's good enough. Garma's actually pretty good. He graduated first in his class, and it seemed like a competitive spot. (Would have been in second if Char hadn't mouthed off to... well, shorter to list who he didn't mouth off to, honestly.) He just feels like he has to be the actual best to justify what he gets by default from being a Zabi, so he pushes himself too far, and then he fucks up. If a Zabi had to be in power, he's the only one who seems like he'd be okay at it.
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Jan 10, 2016 23:05
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Well Degwin was a pretty good leader it seems. Not exactly a nice leader but not Gihren levels of evil.
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Jan 11, 2016 00:23
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Degwin was the one who started the war, dropped the colonies and probably assassinated Zeon to take political power. He only is as sympathetic as he is because by the time he becomes an active character he's already realized how horrifying his actions are, but he is absolutely not a good leader.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:11
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mr. stefan posted:Degwin was the one who started the war, dropped the colonies and probably assassinated Zeon to take political power. He only is as sympathetic as he is because by the time he becomes an active character he's already realized how horrifying his actions are, but he is absolutely not a good leader. Degwin absolutely started the war (well, him and Zeon together set the things in motion but still. Zeon intended for either war or freedom) The colony drop was actually his son's idea and he went along with it only with the assurance that it would end the war quickly. (This is still gross and power-hungry but still.) However Degwin assassinating Zeon is not at all confirmed. The original scripted-but-not-used idea is that he'd admit to Sayla on his deathbed but other material including The Origin and Tomino's novels, pretty firmly imply that Zeon was not assassinated by Degwin. Gihren was responsible for it in the novels and The Origin strongly implies that Zeon may have legitimately died from a heart attack. They've never openly stated who or what is responsible for Zeon's death but Degwin actually ends up pretty far down the list. (That said "good leader" and "monster" are not opposites. Zabi was, aside from his inability to control his children, shown to be a fairly effective leader who got shunted into figurehead status by said children. He was also power-hungry and a monster.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 01:30
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Well I just meant Degwin was good leader in that, after Deikun's death, he got his family into supreme dictatorial power and Zeon became super awesome in terms of technology and stuff. Zeons military lags behind the Federation mainly due to the Feddies having a ton more resources in terms of materials and manpower. Degwin must have done something right to forge the Principality into such a powerhouse.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:38
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I feel bad for Dozle. He's one of the nice Zabis, but then Kycillia had Sasro assassinated and formed a rift between Dozle and the rest of his family. He seemed like a nice guy in The Origin but then he just turned so bitter after Sasro's death and Kycillia's jackassery. Plus he went out like a badass.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:39
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I liked Dozle. One of my favorite character moments in The Origin is when he's holding Mineva and the gravity of what they did during the colony drop hits him so he bursts into tears.
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Jan 11, 2016 02:14
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ImpAtom posted:It depends on Char I think. If Char allies with Sayla but doesn't get over his own issues he's a pretty terrible choice. He is a giant rear end in a top hat at the best of times and a total sociopath at the worst. Sayla can temper him somewhat but it basically depends on nothing bad enough to bring the true shitlord Char back which is a pretty big if. I mean, it's not as if Char is inherently a shitlord- it's beaten into him by decades and decades of horrible poo poo happening to him and everyone else. I'd have to know when that ending can pop and what the conditions are to really make a call on it- if it's end-of-MSG Char or later, gently caress no, but if it's fairly early, he'd probably be fine.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:01
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LORD OF BUTT posted:I mean, it's not as if Char is inherently a shitlord- it's beaten into him by decades and decades of horrible poo poo happening to him and everyone else. I'd have to know when that ending can pop and what the conditions are to really make a call on it- if it's end-of-MSG Char or later, gently caress no, but if it's fairly early, he'd probably be fine. Well, Ral's still kicking around, so the divergence point has to be reasonably early in MSG. Early enough that Char's only somewhat an rear end-wipe if I had to guess. And Zeta Char was in decline on the shitlord status. It's just, you know, he relapsed.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:23
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ImpAtom posted:Degwin absolutely started the war (well, him and Zeon together set the things in motion but still. Zeon intended for either war or freedom) The colony drop was actually his son's idea and he went along with it only with the assurance that it would end the war quickly. (This is still gross and power-hungry but still.) 0079's setting notes pins Zeon's buildup towards war solely on Degwin. Seems to me the intention was that Degwin was a real son of a bitch dictator, but began having buyer's remorse once Gihren took control.
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Jan 11, 2016 05:15
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So is Katejina just some internet friend of Uso's or something?
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Jan 11, 2016 05:17
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closeted republican posted:0079's setting notes pins Zeon's buildup towards war solely on Degwin. Seems to me the intention was that Degwin was a real son of a bitch dictator, but began having buyer's remorse once Gihren took control. The thing you liked specifically talks about how Degwin was following Zeon's ideals. The only depictions of those events are in The Origin and Tomino's Novels, both of which suggest Zeon was actively working towards conflict with the Federation. He just died before it could happen. Remember that "going to war with the Federation for independence" isn't a uniquely Zabi thing. It was Zeon Zum Deikun, not Zabi, who declared independence for the colonies. Even if Zeon has never died odds are very good conflict would have broken out. If Zeon would have gone to the extent the Zabis did is another question entirely and isn't really answerable. Not in the least because Zeon is depicted only very very briefly in any material including The Origin. The only real answer we have is that his son decided to drop an asteroid on Earth under the name Neo-Zeon but that can't speak for the man himself because Char is pretty hosed up. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 05:41
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SeanBeansShako posted:So is Katejina just some internet friend of Uso's or something? Far as I can tell that's basically it. I can't remember if they ever met in person prior to the series.
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Jan 11, 2016 07:27
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Reds posted:Far as I can tell that's basically it. I can't remember if they ever met in person prior to the series. I just saw his mother in a flashback she is blond and has blue eyes just like Katajina. This show is starting to get really weird after the super laser. Which already looked like a penis. Tomino good god man. Also, the Shrike team deaths are like the cheapest of kill them all I've seen. Like, you barely have any connection with them before they start getting bumped off in a way. It is just a quick way to trauma grow the main character. I felt sorry more for frigging Gottn in ZZ when he died.
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Jan 11, 2016 17:10
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closeted republican posted:0079's setting notes pins Zeon's buildup towards war solely on Degwin. Seems to me the intention was that Degwin was a real son of a bitch dictator, but began having buyer's remorse once Gihren took control. I always liked this version of Deikun way more, as it made the character way more interesting. Having him be this saintly figure was boring. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 18:42
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I imagine he was always like that, fanatical supporters of a charismatic individual always think of them as good saintly people. Forgive the IRL examples here but The Duke of Wellington loving hated his wife after marriage because just marrying her was getting back at being turned down before he got famous and well Napoleon despite sadly leaving his barren beloved had no issues at all telling his siblings to divorce their common spouses for European Royalty. And those are the minor issues.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:46
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The impression I got from excerpts I've seen from Tomino's novels and the show was that he was a total peacnik.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:04
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Also, what bugs the hell out of me with Victory is Shakti keeps bringing that baby with her all over the drat place. That and when a character looks directly at the camera and their nose turns into some horrible growth. EDIT: One of the Blues Brothers tribute band guys pistol whipped Haro. Haro gets hosed with a lot here. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 19:08
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SeanBeansShako posted:I imagine he was always like that, fanatical supporters of a charismatic individual always think of them as good saintly people. Inversely, you can look at incredibly lovely individuals and overlook their positive (sometimes vital) aspects because of how terrible they were. A guy like Franz Ferdinand was undeniably a terrible human being who slaughtered half a million animals via hunting with machine guns, was a gigantic racist and was generally hated by both the Austro-Hungarians and the rest of Europe. He was also the only person opposing field Marshall Hotzendorf's attempts to start a war in the Balkans, and actually wanted to create a tripartate Empire with Serbia as the third party, despite his disgust against their people. It's something I really like about Gundam that you can see more than one side of a character, despite the odd Colonel Killing or the entire cast of Wing. They're human more often than not and have both good and negative traits.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:35
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I just finished reading the novelization of Mobile Suit Gundam by Tomino and for everyone who hasn't read it, I would highly recommend. It's a re-imagining of the story that tones down the super mecha elements of the series and doubles down on the high-concept sci-fi elements of Newtypes and space colonization. Aside from that, it departs significantly in that it takes place entirely in space, places new emphasis on ship combat and fleshes out a lot of characters, like the Zabis, Deikun siblings and General Revil. Also, Lalah is only alive for 20 pages and Char isn't even a full Newtype Just a great, more mature retelling of the series. Democrazy fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 18:43
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Monaghan posted:The impression I got from excerpts I've seen from Tomino's novels and the show was that he was a total peacnik. Zeon was absolutely not a peacenik in the traditional sense. He was a firm believer in the future of humanity being transhumanism in space and believed that would lead to peace but that's different from being a pacifist. Even prior to The Origin (where is a part of an armed uprising and rebellion while his wife is pregnant with babby Char) he's anti-Federation to a heavy degree.
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Jan 12, 2016 18:51
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Democrazy posted:I just finished reading the novelization of Mobile Suit Gundam by Tomino and for everyone who hasn't read it, I would highly recommend. It's a re-imagining of the story that tones down the super mecha elements of the series and doubles down on the high-concept sci-fi elements of Newtypes and space colonization. Aside from that, it departs significantly in that it takes place entirely in space, places new emphasis on ship combat and fleshes out a lot of characters, like the Zabis, Deikun siblings and General Revil. I might be wrong, but doesn't The Origin manga do that too? From what I could tell, having not seen the original series, it seemed to be impying Char wasn't a full Newtype and just really wished he was.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:57
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Char is not a natural Newtype like Amuro or Lalah. I don't recall him having Newtype flashes so his piloting was all skill. He didn't start using funnels until CCA so I'd say he got cyber enhanced sometime after Zeta. The Zeong doesn't count as funnels because that was the psycommu system.
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Jan 13, 2016 17:31
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The Missing Link posted:Char is not a natural Newtype like Amuro or Lalah. I don't recall him having Newtype flashes so his piloting was all skill. He didn't start using funnels until CCA so I'd say he got cyber enhanced sometime after Zeta. The Psycommu system is specifically Newtype-use though! The thing with Char not being a 'true' Newtype in original Gundam isn't that he doesn't have Newtype powers. He does. It is that he lacks the empathy and ability to connect to others that really defines a Newtype. He only really is able to connect through Lalah and at least part of that seems to be way more than Lalah is an absurdly gifted Newtype and not that Char is because Amuro and Lalah's connection is on a whole nother level. By Zeta though he seems to be getting more in-tune. He's got a much more noticeable bond with Kamille. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 17:33
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I always thought the deal with Char's newtype-ness was that he was a pretty weak newtype, but an amazing pilot. So by the time CCA came around, in an equal fight, he was still the better pilot, but the gap between piloting skill was more than made up for with Amuro being a very strong newtype, giving him the edge.
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Jan 13, 2016 17:37
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Okay I somehow got it into my head that the Psycommu allowed non newtypes to use wire guided weapons and the psychoframe was Newtype only. I still think Char boosted his weak Newtype powers after Zeta. Which made him go banana balls.
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Jan 13, 2016 18:32
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The Missing Link posted:Okay I somehow got it into my head that the Psycommu allowed non newtypes to use wire guided weapons and the psychoframe was Newtype only. You're thinking of the Incom system. It basically replicates a Psychoframe by using a computer and wired connection to allow for a remote weapon that isn't Newtype-controlled. It's basically a bits system but less flexible since it is running off wires and computer commands instead of instant mental communication. Braw Bro and Zeong both use wired funnels but that is just to keep them tethered to the suit and powered rather than for guidance.
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Jan 13, 2016 18:36
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Someone wanted to know what Sayla's custom GM looked like in The Origin so I took these crappy phone photos, but I forgot how loving ridiculously pretty The Origin is:  The art really is insanely good.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:04
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Origin's art is like goddamn magic.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:08
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I always thought the deal with Char's newtype-ness was that he was a pretty weak newtype, but an amazing pilot. So by the time CCA came around, in an equal fight, he was still the better pilot, but the gap between piloting skill was more than made up for with Amuro being a very strong newtype, giving him the edge. That's the word of Tomino on the subject AFAIK. Lemon Curdistan posted:Someone wanted to know what Sayla's custom GM looked like in The Origin so I took these crappy phone photos, but I forgot how loving ridiculously pretty The Origin is: That's a really cool GM.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:56
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EthanSteele posted:That's a really cool GM. The GM I redesign is actually way cooler:  (Sorry for the low quality lineart, I'll go fetch a picture from the actual books in a bit.)
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Jan 13, 2016 21:58
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Oh god. Uso really is one of the more unluckier Gundam Ace Newtype pilots. At least it wasn't as messy for Kamille's mother  .
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Jan 14, 2016 00:15
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