GW Death Thread 2015 - 2016 - The Something Awful Forums

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Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

There was a big fat kid in the local 40k scene who wore a purple shirt one day and so we all called him Grimace. From that day on, he only ever wore the purple shirt.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 00:03

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:40

fnordcircle: Jul 7, 2004; PTUI

Atlas Hugged posted:

There was a big fat kid in the local 40k scene who wore a purple shirt one day and so we all called him Grimace. From that day on, he only ever wore the purple shirt.

Dude sounds awesome.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 00:36

Atlas Hugged: Mar 12, 2007; Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

I doubt he washed it.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 00:56

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

The salt from his goony tears, earned from a day of being abused by haughty 40k nerds, cleansed it of accumulated filth.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 01:17

Thundercracker: Jun 25, 2004; Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.; College Slice

Kai Tave posted:

Literally build a cube out of your Magic cards, using glue or maybe rubber bands. Use it as a pillow! Throw it at people you don't like! The possibilities are endless.

Is there any other way? Now are we talking about standard cube rules where we beat each other with it until first flood, or vintage cube rules where we beat each other until someone goes down for the count?

No proxies of course.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 01:19

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

willus posted:

has someone made a anime star wars ccg yet

this could be the singularity this thread needs to find the sweet release of death

I want

# ? Jan 14, 2016 02:17

Avenging Dentist: Oct 1, 2005; oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

BULBASAUR posted:

ask about MTG, 2 pages later we're plowing Avenging Dentist for having opinions about collectible card games, damnit you nerds

It's ok, even if this thread isn't on my side, god is.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 04:00

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

Actually I think he was getting ploughed over talking about "social acceptability" in a thread with naked dorf bears behatted with cheetohair.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 04:15

Apollodorus: Feb 13, 2010; TEST YOUR MIGHT

After all this MtG discussion I just want to say that I am so so so so glad that the only game I play competitively these days is rugby. Where there is a legitimate World Cup for which 80,000+ people show up to watch the final in person and hundreds of millions watch it on TV and even if I play for a mediocre team at the 3rd division of a mediocre country then I can still go to bed happy because at the end of the day the rules of the game mean I can grab my opponent and slam him into the loving ground and if I fail to do so it's because he was stronger on the day and not because he could afford to buy xyz plastic space mans or cardboard wizards.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 04:26

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

He could afford to buy those steroids and trainers.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 05:11

Avenging Dentist: Oct 1, 2005; oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

Spiderdrake posted:

Actually I think he was getting ploughed over talking about "social acceptability" in a thread with naked dorf bears behatted with cheetohair.

Luckily pretty much everyone in this thread thinks those models are loving stupid, so they've passed the test and don't need to be put on a watch list.

The "social acceptability" of a social hobby is kind of the whole point. Socialization is why I play games. Other factors of a game are important (like mechanics!), but at least for me, they're all just a means to have more fun with people. This is part of why I prefer to play with friends than with randos at game stores, but that's not the whole story. I like meeting new people in a lot of other situations (e.g. at concerts), but I have much worse luck with people at game stores. Some of this is just because a lot of nerdy people are socially awkward (to put it kindly), but I think another important factor with nerdgames is the community that the game developers encourage.

GW encourages lovely communities both by their pricing and who they market to, but also through the (lack of) quality of their rules. Since the rules aren't very tight and the balance is practically nonexistent, there's an obnoxious divide between WAAC players and those who just want to have fun. With better rules, this divide wouldn't exist, and people could reasonably be assured of a fun game no matter your opponent's playstyle (assuming they aren't just antisocial shitbirds).

CCGs (or at least MtG) are a little better in some ways, since the rules are less ambiguous from what I remember. However, the "gambling" aspect of buying booster packs never appealed to me, nor did the trading. I think the structure of CCGs encourages too much "meta-game competition" where you want to get one up on your opponent by making a trade that benefits you more. I assume it's not a major factor in tournaments and game store events, but the ante rules are a good example of a specific rule that I think adds to the toxicity of the community. With ante, you're now incentivized to gently caress over your buddy for a meta-game benefit. It's these aspects which make CCGs less socially acceptable to me compared to other nerd poo poo.

Similarly, the point where I soured on anime was when I attended the first anime club meeting at my college and learned that they found it necessary to include hygiene requirements in their bylaws. Sadly, the nerdgames club wasn't much better, since they made absolutely no effort to welcome new players and instead outright ignored me and my friends.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 05:36

Herr Tog: Jun 18, 2011; Grimey Drawer

Thundercracker posted:

There's only one proper way to play Magic: build a cube.

or make friends with someone with a cube.

Avenging Dentist posted:

It's ok, even if this thread isn't on my side, god is.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 05:59

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

Herr Tog posted:

or make friends with someone with a cube.

This is something good and cool everyone who has tried Magic and liked it even a little should do.

Avenging Dentist posted:

CCGs (or at least MtG) are a little better in some ways, since the rules are less ambiguous from what I remember. However, the "gambling" aspect of buying booster packs never appealed to me, nor did the trading. I think the structure of CCGs encourages too much "meta-game competition" where you want to get one up on your opponent by making a trade that benefits you more. I assume it's not a major factor in tournaments and game store events, but the ante rules are a good example of a specific rule that I think adds to the toxicity of the community.

Couple points. First, we have the internet on ~~computers~~ phones now, so trading is generally a selection of which dealer to price match and then trading even values. You "try to gently caress over" other people by speculating something will go up or down. The secondary market is toxic, but trading is pretty banal nowadays. Second, ante was removed from Magic twenty years ago. Third, maybe given you think ante is around, it's time to accept maybe you're a little... Well, you know?

Also: Anime isn't your experiences in some hellhole basement with stinky Pete. It might be something far worse, but if you evaluate nerd hobbies by encounters with Stinky Pete and his best friend Gregory Tighty McSweatpants, they all look loving horrific. Magic is pretty mainstream at this point anyway. Full disclosure: I watched a single season of an anime last year, and that was the first time in several years, since I find most of it unbearable.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 06:08

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

The trading aspect of TCGs is fine when it's like, you play a red deck and your friend plays a green deck but you have a Thorn Elemental and he has a Shivan Dragon so you trade the two cards and now you both have something that works for you. Nobody's caring about nickels and dimes because they're both just big fat rares, but it's easier and cooler to make the trade than to go spend your allowance on more booster packs hoping that you open the Shivan. I have to assume that this was something like what Richard Garfield intended.

It breaks down as soon as the bitcoin crowd gets their hands on it. By bitcoin crowd I mean people with a certain sort of mentality, whether or not they actually do trade bitcoins (though I'd be interested to see that particular Venn diagram).

# ? Jan 14, 2016 06:21

boom boom boom: Jun 28, 2012; by Shine

BULBASAUR posted:

What I mean is that B3 should educate everyone about anime CTGs

I've never actually played any CTGs. The only anime game I've played is Tanto Cuore, which is pretty fun

# ? Jan 14, 2016 06:48

LordAba: Oct 22, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Avenging Dentist posted:

Similarly, the point where I soured on anime was when I attended the first anime club meeting at my college and learned that they found it necessary to include hygiene requirements in their bylaws. Sadly, the nerdgames club wasn't much better, since they made absolutely no effort to welcome new players and instead outright ignored me and my friends.

I call the anime club on my school campus "self-esteem class."

It can be weird how insular some groups are. Like there is a big divide where the anime-card players are open, but the magic players can't make eye contact if you suggest playing another game. I've been in places where they just huddle around bitching about fantasy and GW in general, and I come up with a game and nobody wants to play.
I have my game likes and dislikes (I generally don't like eurogames, and don't find much appeal with big mech mini games) but I'm usually up for anything once.

But then again I have the personality of a very boring rock, so eh?

# ? Jan 14, 2016 06:51

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

animeees

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:03

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:11

fnordcircle: Jul 7, 2004; PTUI

Avenging Dentist posted:

Luckily pretty much everyone in this thread thinks those models are loving stupid, so they've passed the test and don't need to be put on a watch list.

The "social acceptability" of a social hobby is kind of the whole point. Socialization is why I play games. Other factors of a game are important (like mechanics!), but at least for me, they're all just a means to have more fun with people. This is part of why I prefer to play with friends than with randos at game stores, but that's not the whole story. I like meeting new people in a lot of other situations (e.g. at concerts), but I have much worse luck with people at game stores. Some of this is just because a lot of nerdy people are socially awkward (to put it kindly), but I think another important factor with nerdgames is the community that the game developers encourage.

GW encourages lovely communities both by their pricing and who they market to, but also through the (lack of) quality of their rules. Since the rules aren't very tight and the balance is practically nonexistent, there's an obnoxious divide between WAAC players and those who just want to have fun. With better rules, this divide wouldn't exist, and people could reasonably be assured of a fun game no matter your opponent's playstyle (assuming they aren't just antisocial shitbirds).

CCGs (or at least MtG) are a little better in some ways, since the rules are less ambiguous from what I remember. However, the "gambling" aspect of buying booster packs never appealed to me, nor did the trading. I think the structure of CCGs encourages too much "meta-game competition" where you want to get one up on your opponent by making a trade that benefits you more. I assume it's not a major factor in tournaments and game store events, but the ante rules are a good example of a specific rule that I think adds to the toxicity of the community. With ante, you're now incentivized to gently caress over your buddy for a meta-game benefit. It's these aspects which make CCGs less socially acceptable to me compared to other nerd poo poo.

Similarly, the point where I soured on anime was when I attended the first anime club meeting at my college and learned that they found it necessary to include hygiene requirements in their bylaws. Sadly, the nerdgames club wasn't much better, since they made absolutely no effort to welcome new players and instead outright ignored me and my friends.

what the gently caress is this poo poo your words are making me so angry

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Apollodorus posted:

After all this MtG discussion I just want to say that I am so so so so glad that the only game I play competitively these days is rugby. Where there is a legitimate World Cup for which 80,000+ people show up to watch the final in person and hundreds of millions watch it on TV and even if I play for a mediocre team at the 3rd division of a mediocre country then I can still go to bed happy because at the end of the day the rules of the game mean I can grab my opponent and slam him into the loving ground and if I fail to do so it's because he was stronger on the day and not because he could afford to buy xyz plastic space mans or cardboard wizards.

doesn't matter how you slam dudes, so long as you slam them long and hard

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:45

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Avenging Dentist posted:

Luckily pretty much everyone in this thread thinks those models are loving stupid, so they've passed the test and don't need to be put on a watch list.

The "social acceptability" of a social hobby is kind of the whole point. Socialization is why I play games. Other factors of a game are important (like mechanics!), but at least for me, they're all just a means to have more fun with people. This is part of why I prefer to play with friends than with randos at game stores, but that's not the whole story. I like meeting new people in a lot of other situations (e.g. at concerts), but I have much worse luck with people at game stores. Some of this is just because a lot of nerdy people are socially awkward (to put it kindly), but I think another important factor with nerdgames is the community that the game developers encourage.

GW encourages lovely communities both by their pricing and who they market to, but also through the (lack of) quality of their rules. Since the rules aren't very tight and the balance is practically nonexistent, there's an obnoxious divide between WAAC players and those who just want to have fun. With better rules, this divide wouldn't exist, and people could reasonably be assured of a fun game no matter your opponent's playstyle (assuming they aren't just antisocial shitbirds).

CCGs (or at least MtG) are a little better in some ways, since the rules are less ambiguous from what I remember. However, the "gambling" aspect of buying booster packs never appealed to me, nor did the trading. I think the structure of CCGs encourages too much "meta-game competition" where you want to get one up on your opponent by making a trade that benefits you more. I assume it's not a major factor in tournaments and game store events, but the ante rules are a good example of a specific rule that I think adds to the toxicity of the community. With ante, you're now incentivized to gently caress over your buddy for a meta-game benefit. It's these aspects which make CCGs less socially acceptable to me compared to other nerd poo poo.

Similarly, the point where I soured on anime was when I attended the first anime club meeting at my college and learned that they found it necessary to include hygiene requirements in their bylaws. Sadly, the nerdgames club wasn't much better, since they made absolutely no effort to welcome new players and instead outright ignored me and my friends.

do you actually have any idea what the gently caress a metagame is

I'll give you a hint: it's when you run a graveyard hate card for your friend's graveyard deck and the next week they're running something to destroy your graveyard hate

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:45

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Apollodorus posted:

After all this MtG discussion I just want to say that I am so so so so glad that the only game I play competitively these days is rugby. Where there is a legitimate World Cup for which 80,000+ people show up to watch the final in person and hundreds of millions watch it on TV and even if I play for a mediocre team at the 3rd division of a mediocre country then I can still go to bed happy because at the end of the day the rules of the game mean I can grab my opponent and slam him into the loving ground and if I fail to do so it's because he was stronger on the day and not because he could afford to buy xyz plastic space mans or cardboard wizards.

Are you a professional rugby player? I'm genuinely curious and know nothing about the sport.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:48

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

I dont necessarily disagree with your stance but you're making it really hard.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:51

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

SynthOrange posted:

I dont necessarily disagree with your stance but you're making it really hard.

this thread makes it hard all the time

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:55

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Avenging Dentist posted:

Luckily pretty much everyone in this thread thinks those models are loving stupid, so they've passed the test and don't need to be put on a watch list.

The "social acceptability" of a social hobby is kind of the whole point. Socialization is why I play games. Other factors of a game are important (like mechanics!), but at least for me, they're all just a means to have more fun with people. This is part of why I prefer to play with friends than with randos at game stores, but that's not the whole story. I like meeting new people in a lot of other situations (e.g. at concerts), but I have much worse luck with people at game stores. Some of this is just because a lot of nerdy people are socially awkward (to put it kindly), but I think another important factor with nerdgames is the community that the game developers encourage.

That's not actually what "social acceptability" means.

Avenging Dentist posted:

CCGs (or at least MtG) are a little better in some ways, since the rules are less ambiguous from what I remember. However, the "gambling" aspect of buying booster packs never appealed to me, nor did the trading. I think the structure of CCGs encourages too much "meta-game competition" where you want to get one up on your opponent by making a trade that benefits you more. I assume it's not a major factor in tournaments and game store events, but the ante rules are a good example of a specific rule that I think adds to the toxicity of the community. With ante, you're now incentivized to gently caress over your buddy for a meta-game benefit. It's these aspects which make CCGs less socially acceptable to me compared to other nerd poo poo.

Okay, so you're either trolling or you're very confused!

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:55

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

LordAba posted:

It can be weird how insular some groups are. Like there is a big divide where the anime-card players are open, but the magic players can't make eye contact if you suggest playing another game.

My experience with Magic isn't even just that. A lot of the time they won't even talk about other formats or ways to play. If you get down into the poo poo-casuals, they talk about how they're a specific color and they get upset about things like "how black can't remove enchantments" if you play an enchantment.

It's like that weird conversation you have with video gamer friends who buy every blizzard game because "only blizzard can scratch that itch."

Actually I hope no one else has had that conversation.

TheKingofSprings posted:

do you actually have any idea what the gently caress a metagame is

He means metagame in the same sense but talking about gaming as an overarching hobby/community and not your dredge deck getting hated out

The metagame of the gaming experience not the metagame of the game whoa

# ? Jan 14, 2016 07:56

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Spiderdrake posted:

He means metagame in the same sense but talking about gaming as an overarching hobby/community and not your dredge deck getting hated out

The metagame of the gaming experience not the metagame of the game whoa

That's not what a metagame is.

It's about outside decisions regarding stuff like deck construction or fighter selection in a video game that'll impact a game but don't happen within the game itself, you could call ripping Timmy off for his rare card sharking like everyone else does, it's still the same lovely component of these games, but don't use the wrong word for it and call it metagaming.

TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jan 14, 2016

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:05

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

JerryLee posted:

this thread makes it hard all the time

especially when the cat girl nurse gets posted

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:23

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

JerryLee posted:

this thread makes it hard all the time

Oh la la~

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:24

Avenging Dentist: Oct 1, 2005; oh my god is that a circular saw that does not go in my mouth aaaaagh

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

That's not actually what "social acceptability" means.

To clarify, what I mean is that if the sorts of people who I like and respect think a game is bad/dorky/creepy/whatever (read: it's not socially acceptable to them), I probably won't play it because I'd have no one fun to play it with. Since my experience with randoms at game stores everywhere I've lived has been pretty bad overall, I don't have a reliable outlet for playing games except with friends. As a result, the social acceptability factor is pretty important because otherwise I just plain won't get to play that game.

It's why I primarily play board games, since it's easy to convince a friend to play a game that they can get started playing in five minutes, that costs them nothing (because I have a copy), and that doesn't require a huge time commitment (most of the board games I have last under an hour including setup and teardown). RPGs don't meet all of these requirements, but they're still an easier sell than a CCG or a tabletop miniatures game because they don't have to buy anything, and it's (usually) the GM's job to help everyone get up to speed with minimal fuss. I've run a few games with people who've never played an RPG before and it usually works out fine because I'm there to help them whenever they don't understand a rule. While I could do that to some degree with CCGs or wargames by having two decks/armies, it's a lot harder to be fair because the learning curve is steeper than your typical board game and unlike RPGs, the goal of most of these games is to defeat the other player. Maybe I should just forge a narrative in Age of Sigmar instead! :lol:

TheKingofSprings posted:

That's not what a metagame is.

It's about outside decisions regarding stuff like deck construction or fighter selection in a video game that'll impact a game but don't happen within the game itself, you could call ripping Timmy off for his rare card sharking like everyone else does, it's still the same lovely component of these games, but don't use the wrong word for it and call it metagaming.

One of the points I'm trying to make is that I saw plenty of cases of uneven trades purely from a rules perspective where the newbie lost out on an effective card for their deck. That fits the definition of metagaming: Alice gets a powerful card to incorporate into her deck for future games, while Bob loses out on that (although he likely lacked the experience to use the card effectively anyway). However, that's also why I put it in quotes because it's not quite the right term, but I don't know of a better one to describe the general property of "antisocial/competitive behaviors that leak out of the game into real life". Another good example of this property is Diplomacy: it's really good at getting people IRL mad at each other. That's arguably a flaw in the game's design, since it makes it an inappropriate choice to play with most groups, unless they're really good at separating "character" experiences from "real life" experiences (most people aren't).

Avenging Dentist fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jan 14, 2016

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:33

GottaPayDaTrollToll: Dec 3, 2009; by Lowtax

JerryLee posted:

It breaks down as soon as the bitcoin crowd gets their hands on it. By bitcoin crowd I mean people with a certain sort of mentality, whether or not they actually do trade bitcoins (though I'd be interested to see that particular Venn diagram).

For a significant portion of Bitcoin's lifespan the biggest Bitcoin exchange in the word was a former MTGO trading site.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:33

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

BULBASAUR posted:

especially when the cat girl nurse gets posted

Ch'rowl?

# ? Jan 14, 2016 08:55

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Can someone tell me what cubes are.

Beyond being six sided geometric constructs, obvs.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 10:23

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

spectralent posted:

Can someone tell me what cubes are.

Assuming you know nothing about Magic here's the long-winded explanation. Magic is sold in booster packs, ok, which you probably know.

One of the most popular forms of Magic is referred to as limited, where you assemble a deck by drafting packs. There's a couple different ways to draft, but basically you crack a pack, take a card and pass the card to the other players in the draft. You end up with (usually) 42 cards from three packs, from which you use 21-24 with basic land to make a deck. This allows you to play with more of the cards and actually use them, and open boosters, which is a gambling.

What cube is, instead, is pre-assembling a collection of cards (the cube itself), forming boosters from them at random and then sitting down to draft those packs. What this allows you to do is play with the cards or themes you like, tailoring the environment around what your playgroup considers a good time. It's also really cost effective, though it does lack gambling, unless you gamble while cubing which works too.

It was originally called "cubing" due to a geometry or math joke or some nerd poo poo I forget about.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 10:45

Not a viking: Aug 2, 2008; Feels like I just got laid

BULBASAUR posted:

especially when the cat girl nurse gets posted

She's a doctor, ok?

# ? Jan 14, 2016 12:01

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

Not a viking posted:

She's a doctor, ok?

Jeez how sexist can you get eh?

# ? Jan 14, 2016 12:29

Saint Drogo: Dec 26, 2011

Man at least star wars derails can be loving deciphered by semi normal people.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 14:20

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Saint Drogo posted:

Man at least star wars derails can be loving deciphered by semi normal people.

I miss that game too, bud.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 14:30

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

What the gently caress is a cube

# ? Jan 14, 2016 14:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:40

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

They're wooden markers for anything from resources to stat tracking for good games. Usually made in Europe since American games prefer to use cardboard instead.

# ? Jan 14, 2016 14:43

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