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So, Ello Asty was in the winning list at our store champ last weekend. Him, Poe, and Dutch with TLT. Being able to tallon roll, boost, and still have a target lock from Dutch made him tough to manage apparently. There's definitely some room to work with for Ello for sure. I'm considering dropping down from VI Vader to Predator. At the champs I never needed VI, and I lost a game and MOV by a few hits that Predator could have given me. 11 is nice, but I feel like I'm good enough at flying him I don't care about Poe being 10.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:45
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Juke is the best Vader EPT right now IMO. It allows him to get shots in like an interceptor would. Testing at the local nova tournaments right now show good results. And right now is as good a time as any since people have been flooding weekly events to prep for store champs and regionals.
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Jan 15, 2016 14:57
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Juke I'd considered, but I have some concern over the action economy issues. Vader is already needing to target lock regularly, and needs to use repositioning. Adding needing to evade to keep your offense up seems limiting. I like predator for its always on nature. OTOH I can see Juke being very effective against lower PS ships with him. How does it play out for you in practice.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:27
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I don't play with it but my friend enjoys it so far. He has been able to beat Brobots, VSP, swarms, and 3-4 ship rebel lists including Poe so far. He said he actually liked the action economy since you target lock and evade, and only focus intermittently. Palpatine is around for additional help anyway. I think it requires a specific style since he keeps vader in formation during tournaments, so the evade actually comes in handy. He doesn't fly him in this list as you would a Fel or phantom, more like a Corran that does a pass and goes around and if he can bait anyone into following, they get shot by the shuttle or his other wingmen.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:32
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ConfusedUs posted:Targeting Computer is useless on O'Leader, because he already has a target lock action. Ah, thanks for the heads up on the Targeting Computer. Is there are good resource for general tactics out there? Like, I get he concept of the swarm zerg rush, but for something like a three ace build, should I be jousting? Or keep them together so I can burn other ships down quickly?
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Jan 15, 2016 15:36
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Fair enough. I don't run vsp so maybe that's where the difference lies in my thinking. I'd be using Vader in a list with Soontir and Omega Leader, which is going to end up flying differently without that Palpatine security blanket.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:37
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The Gate posted:Fair enough. I don't run vsp so maybe that's where the difference lies in my thinking. I'd be using Vader in a list with Soontir and Omega Leader, which is going to end up flying differently without that Palpatine security blanket. He doesn't exactly play VSP, but instead plays Vader/Wampa/Colzin/Palp. The flex spot is the third one, with some people preferring scourge as a cheap interceptor. But yeah the Palp security blanket means you can take more risks with certain things. That drat vader stood at 1HP for a lot of games and he likes to laugh that at least they don't take half his points!
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Jan 15, 2016 15:39
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AnxiousApatosaurus posted:Ah, thanks for the heads up on the Targeting Computer. Is there are good resource for general tactics out there? Like, I get he concept of the swarm zerg rush, but for something like a three ace build, should I be jousting? Or keep them together so I can burn other ships down quickly? Aces (arc dodgers) don't want to joust unless it's 1v1 against something with little chance of hitting them. It's all about bait and switch, and forcing ships to split up or follow you while another ace moves in and makes a pass. It's tricky to get right, and there's of course times where a head to head is unavoidable or even a good call.
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Jan 15, 2016 15:41
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The Gate posted:So, Ello Asty was in the winning list at our store champ last weekend. Him, Poe, and Dutch with TLT. Being able to tallon roll, boost, and still have a target lock from Dutch made him tough to manage apparently. There's definitely some room to work with for Ello for sure. What all did he have on his ships? That looks close to my Poe/Ello/K-Wing with TLT.
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Jan 15, 2016 16:06
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Played in another mini tournament tonight. This time went 2 -1 losing only to the guy who ended up winning the tourney, which I was really happy with.\ First game was against Vader with 3 Crack Shot F/Os. Fell a bit behind but blocking vader with a Z then ion escorting him towards the board edge while the rest of my ships followed took him out, destroyed 2 more Ties to win on points. Second game was vs Fat Han and Poe. Traded shots with han, whittling at the shields and losing my y-wing. Then jumped a z-forward causing a bump on Poe with him in arc of all of my guns and took him to 1 health, finishing him the next turn. Chased Han around the board with 2 Zs and Xizor took him down to 1 hull but the round ended. Final list was against Mirada, Poe and Kyle Katarn, with Kyle acting as a focus battery for a regenning miranda and Poe, didn't priorities Kyle enough in the early game and could only achieve chip against miranda and Poe, Eventually lost all my swarm and got down to just Xizor, who took out kyle but was eventually crushed by Poe. Had a really fun time, enjoyed my list a lot and am going to make a few more tweaks. Watching xizor chase miranda across the board shooting at her at range 1 and never doing more than 1 damage per turn was frustrating, so I'm thinking I might try something to up his damage.
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Jan 15, 2016 16:45
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I recall someone here actually works for FFG and did part of the worlds coverage but have you guys ever considered using the official dice app for all televised games of x-wing? It's a lot easier to see that being shown on the side of a coverage window rather than some really bad lighting in a dice chamber whose results the commentators cannot even see. Might even get people to buy it, after all. 
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Jan 15, 2016 16:51
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They televise X-Wing?
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Jan 15, 2016 16:56
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Worlds is shown on twitch, it's a pretty interesting broadcast. Saw the finals last time as well.
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Jan 15, 2016 16:57
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Improbable Lobster posted:They televise X-Wing? Its called traditional electronic sports, or TeSports
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Jan 15, 2016 16:58
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Yeah and it's really bad when they roll dice into a dice arena with poor lighting and the commentators are wondering what the results are while the attacker is already in the middle of picking them up so the defender can roll. This is 2016 and that's like not using tv wizardry 1st and 10 graphics system during an american football game.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:03
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Or the fact that the commentators don't know what's on each face up damage card which means there's a lot of confusion towards the end.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:06
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A virtual damage deck would be pretty sweet. You could have it provide up to 8 wangs' worth of damage piles. Shouldn't be too hard.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:14
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God damnit my name is Angelo and reading this thread is making me feel bad for things I didn't even do. Also IMO the biggest issue with their broadcasts for Worlds was not actually showing the upgrades anywhere on the screen, so you just kinda had to guess what was equipped for each.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:17
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Bottom Liner posted:What all did he have on his ships? That looks close to my Poe/Ello/K-Wing with TLT. Poe was the usual R5-P9 build, Ello was VI and an R5 and integrated, and Dutch was TLT and the droid that gives you a chance to reacquire your TL (yes really). Apparently, it would trigger a couple times each match and that was good enough since Dutch didn't really need anything else.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:17
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ranbo das posted:God damnit my name is Angelo and reading this thread is making me feel bad for things I didn't even do. This is really weird too cuz you need to fill out a squadron list for store championships and above so uhhhhhh E: as much as I like trolling about the magic thread sometimes, I really have to give lots of props to the main magic secondary market retailer, starcitygames.com, for making smooth broadcasts that go above and beyond what the official WOTC broadcasts show in their worlds (pro tours) broadcasts.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:24
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Brunas posted:Poe VI/regen/Autothrusters players, what are you afraid of running into with him in the lategame? I've been trying to find a good Imperial list that I don't mind running into Poe with but having some trouble, which is probably why Poe is so good... Yeah, you don't run Empire, you loving facist The Gate posted:So, Ello Asty was in the winning list at our store champ last weekend. Him, Poe, and Dutch with TLT. Being able to tallon roll, boost, and still have a target lock from Dutch made him tough to manage apparently. There's definitely some room to work with for Ello for sure. I think the VI Vader obviously depends largely on who else is in the list. Brunas flew against my Poe/RA/Y-Wing list with his 4 Advanced noise, and while I don't think I'm better than he is at X-Wing, that felt like a nightmare matchup for him, sitting on my side of the table, and that was with Vader at PS11. There are probably very conventional answers for my New Favorite Build, but the most obvious one that comes to mind is "trump Poe in pilot skill." Speaking of, you ran Poe/RA/Y-Wing the other day, against what looked to be a weird Scum list ("weird" in that it wasn't Brobots). I've been considering dropping the stressbot to upgrade from Ion Cannon Turret to TLT. Can I solicit you for free advice? Not having Range 3 on my R3-A2 feels wonky, and the Ion+stressbot feels like a much more binary ship - either I get the Ion to hit in which case the ace in question died, or I don't, and I never use the Ion turret again. I like the stressing, but maybe I should just stick with the TLT? guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 17:35
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Chill la Chill posted:I recall someone here actually works for FFG and did part of the worlds coverage but have you guys ever considered using the official dice app for all televised games of x-wing? It's a lot easier to see that being shown on the side of a coverage window rather than some really bad lighting in a dice chamber whose results the commentators cannot even see. Might even get people to buy it, after all. The best display I've seen in coverage videos is from the Sanctioned Youtube Channel. Shows all the information about all the ships and shows ever die roll: http://i.imgur.com/J6Gfdxi.png And when there's a crit, they show you what the card said: http://i.imgur.com/RXlPmRX.png
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Jan 15, 2016 17:58
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The Gate posted:Poe was the usual R5-P9 build, Ello was VI and an R5 and integrated, and Dutch was TLT and the droid that gives you a chance to reacquire your TL (yes really). Apparently, it would trigger a couple times each match and that was good enough since Dutch didn't really need anything else. I've been reading VI as 6 in this thread for a long drat time and was really confused and it finally figgin' clicked.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:02
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The Gate posted:Poe was the usual R5-P9 build, Ello was VI and an R5 and integrated, and Dutch was TLT and the droid that gives you a chance to reacquire your TL (yes really). Apparently, it would trigger a couple times each match and that was good enough since Dutch didn't really need anything else. Yeah my first 100pt game was against a friend running with R5-K6 and the ability doesn't seem so terrible when it triggers on every shot. I'd never bet on it but it's a nice bonus when it happens, assuming you didn't need the points anywhere else anyway, and when your dice run hot it can do a lot for you. That same game lead to Soontir eating an ion shot, clipping an asteroid by 1mm, rolling a crit and drawing direct hit to take him out. Was a good time.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:07
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Chill la Chill posted:I recall someone here actually works for FFG and did part of the worlds coverage but have you guys ever considered using the official dice app for all televised games of x-wing? It's a lot easier to see that being shown on the side of a coverage window rather than some really bad lighting in a dice chamber whose results the commentators cannot even see. Might even get people to buy it, after all. I don't see that ever happening. I know there are players that would RIOT if required to use the app. People just have so many suspicions about their dice rolling. I know we've got some ideas to make it a little better next year though. The crits thing is mostly a problem when players never show their crit damage to the camera. We're sitting in an isolation booth so we can't really just pop over to see what they say, and the people at the table can't hear us either. As for listing upgrades, there's only so much room on the screen! We did go over the lists before each match, and usually the Twitch chat could answer any list questions that people had in-game. Those are all good feedback to have though, thanks!
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Jan 15, 2016 18:10
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Weirdneal posted:The best display I've seen in coverage videos is from the Sanctioned Youtube Channel. Shows all the information about all the ships and shows ever die roll: That's done in post though right? Not live? It's MUCH harder to do that sort of thing live, and keep it all accurate. Plus every person we have working the stream for that week is not creating more awesome X-Wing content 
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Jan 15, 2016 18:14
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Thanks dude. Really too bad to see people being so superstitious about dumb dice. I know some of those concerns are taken care of, in MTG at least, by having someone by the table there taking notes and texting or using a chat app to relay info to the guys in the booth.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:16
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Oh man, doing some practice for an escalation tournament and Red Ace with r2d2, Autothrusters and comm relay is just obnoxious at 60 points. On par with omega leader. Really don't know what to take myself. What's good? Thinking of PS10 chiraneau and academy just to be obnoxious. Decigunner at 90 points is just mean. Or sensor jammer rebel captive whisper and dark curse. Or cheap whisper and omega leader. Expecting a lot of Omega leader, poe and red ace, so would love to use wes but I prefer not to borrow for tournaments.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:29
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Otisburg posted:
Not necessarily on Omega Leader himself, but I think taking an Omega Squadron Pilot with Draw Their Fire as a wingman isn't a bad idea.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:30
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Dammit 100 posts I was hoping for the Punishing One preview  X-Wing is all over youtube. Some channels (Team Covenant, Tabletop Kingdom in particular) are very good at putting up a HUD that shows all the relevant information about the squads. Watching good youtubes is basically how I learned the game.
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Jan 15, 2016 18:33
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:No, the rest of your post just didn't make any sense at all. (and neither does this, unless you have a very weird idea about what "heuristic" means) Fortunately, it doesn't matter, because that was a complaint about people being aggressively bad at maths phrased as a question Well you were half right about the parenthetical, which I blame on picking up the definition from science fiction books instead of dictionaries.  Admiral Joeslop posted:I want to take this as deep as I can. What are your pointers for asteroid placement, ship placement, and movement? Should I try to joust and take out the biggest target, or take the long way to swing around? What should I be worried about, just aces with higher PS? Teach me your ways. I usually take the small rocks (mostly because I don't have debris fields) from the TFA core set. Smaller rocks generally means more room for error on maneuvers, especially for ships that have no native repositioning ability. Placement matters a lot more for who you're coming up against then anything else. Up against arc-dodgers like TIEs, I set them as close together as I can toward the middle of the map, so I've got room to maneuver on the edge if I need to disengage or K-turn, and it's more difficult to bounce to deny shots if there are asteroids everywhere. Good players won't land on rocks very often, but every once in a while you get lucky and they clip it, and that's a dead TIE. For ship placement, since 90% of the time I'm deploying last, I'll typically set up all on one side of the board, with Luke toward the inside (because he's the toughest to shoot down), Wedge in the middle, and Wes on the outside edge (because his ability doesn't give a poo poo about range). I try to line up in a joust against either the biggest ship in the enemy list, or the one that has the most difficulty getting out of the way. Something that can't actually change its engagement quickly or easily. Exactly what it is isn't terribly important, the point is that it should probably be something you can disengage from if the rest of their list decides to play nice. I place my ships with one range ruler width (I think that's a quarter ship base?) laterally from the asteroid nearest to them, making sure that I can do a couple straight maneuvers and not fly into a rock. Playing XXX against another three ship build in my experience, the side that claims first blood generally wins. Focus fire on a target, any target, and deny the dice it throws at you or the mods it gives, if you're flying against a Palpmobile. XXX has some serious trouble against VSP lists, because your defense dice will not always cooperate but thanks to Palpatine theirs will. Against a swarm, fly slow at first and make them commit to a direction before you turn to engage. If it's possible, play the range game to end up in range 3 of just a couple of them, and out of range of the rest. If you can'd do that, stack up on offense and blow the poo poo out of at least one of them before they shoot. You need to get at least one a turn, or find some way to deny multiple ships shots in the coming turns, or you will simply lose against the preponderance of dice. Concentrate Wes and Luke on one target and if you're lucky shoot it down. If they do it, point Wedge at another. Against a TIE swarm if the dice are with you, you can nail two of them. Against a 5K, try to never get to range 1 of more than one or two of them. If you can't play the range game, get to range 1 as fast as physically possible (without bumping). Against a two ship list, I usually go for the smaller one first. Tagging Corran or Poe with two stress and stripping a token with Wes is usually the death stroke on the first shot of the game, and after that it's XXX against one big ship. Corran double stressed is easy pickings, and Poe without his focus token can't do anything worthwhile. Wes's stress capabilities keep big ships from out running you unless they want to skip actions, too. Really, the thing about XXX is to focus fire on one target and erase it from existence. Whether that comes on the joust or not, you need to get three ships shooting at one ship, and under the power of three ace X-wings unless it's Whisper with a Palpmobile you will probably put the hurt on it if not outright destroy it.
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Jan 15, 2016 19:51
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hoiyes posted:Oh man, doing some practice for an escalation tournament and Red Ace with r2d2, Autothrusters and comm relay is just obnoxious at 60 points. On par with omega leader. Really don't know what to take myself. What's good? Kenkirk with Vader is pretty fantastic at that first 60 points. You're a giant brick, Kenkirk makes those hull points really stretch, and you have 360 arc with three dice. It's mean. Vader just ruins the dreams of anyone trying to run Interceptors or low shield ships early on, so that covers a lot of the issues you'd have to worry about encountering Autothrusters. Chirpy would be pretty solid in this slot as well, and certainly scales up pretty strong. You could also take Oicunn and upgrade your TIE to a Crackshot TIE. That exchanges agility for the chance to just plow into ships, and the extra damage output from that at early levels is not to be ignored. Whisper and Omega leader is also really good. Whisper needs VI and Advanced Cloaking, but beyond that, your upgrades are something you can shift around. I like Agent Kallus on Whisper and then nothing on Omega, coming in at a perfect 60. Kallus helps versus guys with higher PS, and Omega is pretty alright on his own as long as you control engagements and don't have your dice completely crap out. If you don't have Kallus, you could slip FCS onto Whisper, Juke onto Omega (though it isn't optimal at this stake,) or Intelligence Agent onto Whisper. Or even just have a 2 point bid, whatever's good. The list is very solid, but all the standard "Whisper is only 4 HP be very careful" goes doubly here. You have to be confident, or else you're going to get wrecked. The biggest thing with these two lists is that they scale up really well. The Decimator gets its full crew, and then you have a build path towards pretty much anything with a really solid ship as its foundations. I go for a mini swarm with Howlrunner and then tack on Soontir at the last step for a little bit of everything. Honestly, you can go whatever with it. Whisper builds into Whisper, Omega picks up the rest of his upgrades, and you have enough points left over for a F/O Ace or whatever. Omega and Whisper will serve you well throughout the entire tournament, and again, they're a really solid core. That brings me to the issue with Red Ace. It is still super obnoxious at lower points, but it's 38 points. You're limited pretty hard on what you can take with it, and you'll be stuck with some kind of generic, a mid-tier A-Wing, or Kyle with no turret. These can be built on, sure, but you're just a tough ship and a blocker to start. A tough ship that, while obnoxious, is going to struggle versus higher PS aces. That can be rough, but it's not the biggest issue. That one is this - what does Red Ace do at 90/120/150? At 90, he's admittedly still solid. But at 120 and 150, he's really just a tough X-Wing. He doesn't do anything spectacular, doesn't have any specific role, and just relies on being tough to get the job done. At higher points, being tough is way less of an issue because you can be burst a lot more quickly, or the rest of your list gets chewed up and then your tough X-Wing likely isn't going to match what is left. Basically, he's really good on the first round or two, but after that? Eh. Not as good a foundation.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:32
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Luke plus Wedge with Predator is my pro-tier Escalation 60 point list. Upgrades great, doesn't leave any useless hangers on after you go through rounds. Kills things dead when it's really hard to get numbers advantage at that tier.
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Jan 15, 2016 20:34
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:No, the rest of your post just didn't make any sense at all. (and neither does this, unless you have a very weird idea about what "heuristic" means) Fortunately, it doesn't matter, because that was a complaint about people being aggressively bad at maths phrased as a question It could technically be an example of 'heuristic bias' in that it's driven by the availability heuristic, but as a psychologist I am obliged to refer to every decision ever made as 'heuristic bias' 
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Jan 15, 2016 21:28
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General Battuta posted:It could technically be an example of 'heuristic bias' in that it's driven by the availability heuristic, but as a psychologist I am obliged to refer to every decision ever made as 'heuristic bias' Yes, that completely different statement is quite possibly true!
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Jan 15, 2016 21:56
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For those who like official playmats, two new ones announced
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Jan 15, 2016 22:08
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We saw these at worlds and they are gorgeous I may buy the Bespin one
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Jan 15, 2016 22:08
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So, with some urging from a friend, I picked up the new trilogy core set. I'm heading to a gaming get together tonight and the other people have expressed interest in seeing how the game works. I don't have infinite money, but I'd also like to ensure that all four people present can participate if necessary. Would getting another single X-Wing (2 X-Wings vs 2 TIES) be reasonably balanced or should I do something else?
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Jan 15, 2016 22:11
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2 X-Wings are 42 points (minimum), while the top 2 TIE fighter pilots are around 34 points together. You could kit out a single X-Wing to be as many points as 3 TIE fighters though, if you took Luke, R2, and an elite pilot skill to fight against 3 academy pilots. Those lists would be within a point or two of each other (I think).
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Jan 15, 2016 22:18
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| # ? May 16, 2024 09:35 |
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Some Numbers posted:I don't have infinite money Famous last words.
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