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Colonel Cool posted:Why 3.5 didn't give rogues something like Epic Precision for free at level 1 is beyond me. I always use mod tools to give Paladins extra feats since they don't get their celestial mount stuff. Tower Shield and Bastard Sword tend to make up for a lot.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:32
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Who What Now posted:What's the best class to play in NWN2? Honestly they're all fine. Stuff like wizards might be tricky to play at first due to your low health, but once you get a posse it's fine. It's not exactly a hard game to play, though I believe both of the expansions have time limit junk if you rest forever like a tosser.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:35
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Shugojin posted:Absolutely not a rogue because their one class feature is useless. Yeah, precision damage is completely useless in the main campaign, since you're fighting undead for like the entire third act. Gamerofthegame posted:Honestly they're all fine. Stuff like wizards might be tricky to play at first due to your low health, but once you get a posse it's fine. It's not exactly a hard game to play, though I believe both of the expansions have time limit junk if you rest forever like a tosser. I never played Storm of Zehir, but Mask's time limit mechanic is only relevant if you aren't taking the Good-aligned route.
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Jan 16, 2016 04:25
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I played rogue on hard mode in those games and it was totally fine. You get enough stuff and the main campaign is easy enough that not being able to sneak attack undead until epic levels isn't actually a huge deal.
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Jan 16, 2016 06:19
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Zehir is also good. It's the Icewind Dale of the NWN2 expansions.
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Jan 16, 2016 07:14
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Who What Now posted:What's the best class to play in NWN2? All classes are fine really, it's just not a particularly fun game to play. e: I should point out, the game assumes you're playing a frontline warrior so much that it gives you a very special sword that's story critical. If your class can't use a sword, or hell even just if you're a melee guy who specialized in falchions or whatever, you kiiiiind of get shafted. You'll get by, but you'll always think "oh so I was supposed to use this sword I guess". It's like, why even bother setting up the whole character creation system when you make assumptions about the PC on that level? My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 08:44
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Apart from very slowly grinding down the statues and portal at the end of the vanilla campaign you don't actually need to use the special sword at all. Also it's a special sword that is classified as a generic sword so any class can wield it, but I don't think any feats will work for it. With melee you can either go straight up paladin, barbarian or fighter which might not be the most fun thing, especially the last one, or you go for dragon disciple, frenzied berserker or weapon master. Those three prestige classes will make you deal more damage than a regular barbarian or fighter but for all the love I really don't care much for the weapon master as it requires a ton of feats (whirlwind, while cool, isn't particularly good since it'll make the AI spam it and you lose out on damage unless you directly control the character) and it makes you crit like a lunatic but the game is full of undead and spirits and other things that are immune to crits. Frenzied berserker is fun, at level ten you get the Supreme Power Attack feat: quote:A 10th level, the Frenzied Berserker gains a +6 damage bonus (instead of +3) using the Power Attack feat. Using the Improved Power Attack feat, the Frenzied Berserker gains a +12 damage bonus (instead of +6). This translates to +12 with two-handed weapons for standard Power Attack and +24 for Improved Power Attack. Personally I've found barbarian to be more fun than fighter, sure you'll lose out on a lot of feats (you have to pick up the heavy armor feat too) but you get some fun stuff to make up for it like more skill points, more class skills, faster movement and rage. I wish the game had a higher cap on stats than 50, it's too easy to reach it with strength in MoTB.
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Jan 16, 2016 10:25
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NWN2 is 3rd edition, so it's worth it to try and do something more interesting than the base classes. This guide has a ton of builds that are both powerful and, more importantly, fun. You can skip the huge  and scroll directly to the builds if you want.Personally I played through NWN2/MoB using the one called "BadBard", which was awesome because it had high Charisma and diplomatic skills (which is great for a protagonist), good tanking (useful as you will often be in the front of the party) and was still pretty strong in general. Definitely recommended if you don't mind playing an evil character.
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Jan 16, 2016 11:41
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I just played as a wizard, because I am lazy and enjoy cheesing endgame fights by casting fire immunity on the party and spamming meteor swarm everywhere. Also you probably want to have at least one of the dialogue skills as a class skill, and/or have some spare skill points to sink into them. And since this is still an Obsidian game there is both a fixpack, and (for truly hilarious reasons) a fixpack for the fixpack.
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Jan 16, 2016 11:51
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NihilCredo posted:if you don't mind playing an evil character
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Jan 16, 2016 12:52
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When I played NWN2 a few years ago, I was really impressed with Kaedrin's PrC pack, if you're the type of person that likes going through sourcebooks and coming up with a multi-class munchkin build. There's a lot of cool prestige classes in there that are relatively well-realized, and a bunch of added cleric domains and spells. I think my main PC was something like Wizard/Red Wizard of Thay/Necromancer/Frost Mage, and you can prestige the party NPCs into the new classes too. Helps you make a lot of really neat fighter/magic builds.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:23
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WHY!? WHY DID YOU SHOW ME THAT PrC PACK!? Now I want to replay the game.
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Jan 17, 2016 00:20
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My Lovely Horse posted:That's the other terrible thing about NWN2. They very clearly had a lawful good character in mind for the campaign. But even if not, no two people have the same idea about what constitutes law/chaos/good/evil and playing any sort of alignment-restricted class turns into a 60-hour balance act between acting in line with your idea of the character, acting in line with the writers' idea of both your character and alignment, and not losing the ability to progress in levels. You end up picking dialogue options for their mechanic effect rather than for content. Fortunately alignment is at least easy to mod out. Yeah, if you don't go out of your way to avoid it you will inevitably gravitate towards Lawful Good just due to the way the dialogue choices and the story are written. There's a bunch of stuff where "advance the plot" gives you Lawful/Good points and the only way to get Evil or Chaotic points is to go out of your way to be a jerk in a sidequest. e: Mask of the Betrayer is also pretty bad about this, in that interacting with one of the main game mechanics gives you either Lawful Good points or Chaotic Evil points and you have to do it constantly and, for the best mechanical benefits, the same way every time. Android Blues fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 19:44
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Who What Now posted:What's the best class to play in NWN2? Uninstall Wizard.
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Jan 17, 2016 20:10
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Shaking lemur butt posted:Uninstall Wizard.  Always makes the WIS roll
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Jan 17, 2016 20:23
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, if you don't go out of your way to avoid it you will inevitably gravitate towards Lawful Good just due to the way the dialogue choices and the story are written. There's a bunch of stuff where "advance the plot" gives you Lawful/Good points and the only way to get Evil or Chaotic points is to go out of your way to be a jerk in a sidequest.
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Jan 17, 2016 21:22
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MotB actually has a pretty good evil path. I can't think of many other games that makes you feel like an actual villain the way Mask does it
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Jan 17, 2016 22:58
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netcat posted:MotB actually has a pretty good evil path. I can't think of many other games that makes you feel like an actual villain the way Mask does it
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Jan 17, 2016 23:01
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Yeah that's a good one too.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:04
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The MotB evil path lets you quote Darkside:
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Jan 17, 2016 23:42
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Shaking lemur butt posted:Uninstall Wizard. 
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Jan 18, 2016 01:54
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Shaking lemur butt posted:Uninstall Wizard. 
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Jan 18, 2016 03:31
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Yeah Mask and Torment did stunning jobs of having evil options that are actually just outright horrible instead of insisting people pay up when you go fetch their bear asses or whatever.
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Jan 18, 2016 03:50
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Yeah I hate in a alignment RPG in order to get a good "alignment" you have to outright refuse most quest rewards and God forbid you tell someone they're being stingy.
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Jan 18, 2016 04:48
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Actively selling your companions into slavery (for the second time, in at least one case) is a cut beyond where most games are willing to take the "evil" path.
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Jan 18, 2016 05:13
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sell your companions to cannibals, imo
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Jan 18, 2016 05:19
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Shugojin posted:Yeah Mask and Torment did stunning jobs of having evil options that are actually just outright horrible instead of insisting people pay up when you go fetch their bear asses or whatever. The thing is I have a friend who made decisions based solely on what they thought would be the most evil path. In the end, their character was Chaotic Neutral.
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Jan 18, 2016 09:25
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Update, with plot advancement!
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Jan 18, 2016 14:57
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Crap, I had this wall of text about alignment all written up and you come and ruin it with your comic update  OK here goes anyway: What bothers me is that these games seem to have this concept of "Evil" as "person who is just generally a raging rear end in a top hat in every possible way". In real life no one wakes up every morning and thinks "gee golly, I suck so much as a human being, I wonder if I can find new ways to suck today". People become assholes in specific, refined ways. You have the bureaucrat who won't listen to reason even in the face of incredible suffering, the selfish bastard who always puts himself first, the vengeful crusader hell-bent on taking out his issues on innocents, and so forth and so on. The vengeful crusader can be brave and willing to sacrifice himself for the cause; the selfish bastard will be willing to bend the rules for you if they can see it benefiting them in the long run; the bureaucrat can have a very reasonable approach to the application of the law and believe that innocents should never be punished for the actions of others, and that vigilantes cannot be allowed to operate. Of course when all is said and done you have the real sadists who get off on the suffering of others, but how common are they really? And are they the people you honestly think of when you think, "compelling villain"? And even these people, do they really go down the main street of life dutifully popping every birthday baloon and kicking every puppy? Because that's what these games apparently expect "evil" to be. TBH It's not a problem limited to D&D games; a lot of popular media at some point says "gently caress it" and goes the "villain with zero redeeming qualities who is just the worst person in every way" route, because  (I'm looking at you, Divergent trilogy; and I had better not start talking about that recent Star Wars movie). There's even less of an excuse for it in other media really, because accommodating unexpected, realistic evil on the part of a player character is a much tougher nut to crack than just, you know, letting your villains be people.
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Jan 18, 2016 15:25
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Someone explain to me why Hel's vote still counts after Roy smears the new High Priestess's vampire brains all over the floors and wall with her own morning star, because I ain't findin' it.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:08
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Triple Elation posted:Crap, I had this wall of text about alignment all written up and you come and ruin it with your comic update Well, you basically summed up one of the biggest themes behind OotS, so you kinda got back on topic anyway  Wulfolme posted:Someone explain to me why Hel's vote still counts after Roy smears the new High Priestess's vampire brains all over the floors and wall with her own morning star, because I ain't findin' it. It won't, but the other clerics would be obligated to kill Roy on the spot. "But why should that stop Roy, who knows that otherwise he's going to die anyway, and who's more comfortable with death than most?" - that currently has no justification other than "Rich is afraid that his young and impressionable readers will literally kill themselves".
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Jan 18, 2016 16:16
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Wulfolme posted:Someone explain to me why Hel's vote still counts after Roy smears the new High Priestess's vampire brains all over the floors and wall with her own morning star, because I ain't findin' it. Because he (probably) can't do that? He's (probably) not her bodyguard. ^ Having lost one of my best friends to suicide, I'm wholeheartedly behind Rich's position.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:17
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Wulfolme posted:Someone explain to me why Hel's vote still counts after Roy smears the new High Priestess's vampire brains all over the floors and wall with her own morning star, because I ain't findin' it. I don't think Roy's still an official bodyguard, now that Durkon's ceded his position as a High priest and split. So in the next strip the pro-world-destruction priests may catch on to the fact that he's technically as much of an intruder as the vampires and just blast him with all the spells they have left.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:18
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Triple Elation posted:What bothers me is that these games seem to have this concept of "Evil" as "person who is just generally a raging rear end in a top hat in every possible way". In real life no one wakes up every morning and thinks "gee golly, I suck so much as a human being, I wonder if I can find new ways to suck today". Actually I'm pretty sure this is Karl Rove's morning routine.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:27
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Triple Elation posted:What bothers me is that these games seem to have this concept of "Evil" as "person who is just generally a raging rear end in a top hat in every possible way". In real life no one wakes up every morning and thinks "gee golly, I suck so much as a human being, I wonder if I can find new ways to suck today".  So I wonder if Roy's sword managing to partially penetrate is a Chekov's Gun to foreshadow him pulling the same trick later.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:29
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ImpAtom posted:So I wonder if Roy's sword managing to partially penetrate is a Chekov's Gun to foreshadow him pulling the same trick later. How is an inanimate sword penetrating Anti Life Shell significant? I guess the toss itself could be, but in nearly all circumstances Roy throwing his sword is an extremely low percentage move for him.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:35
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So, Belkar lives a bit longer still. I mean, Rich could always pull a GRR Martin and have him die in an anticlimax, but I think it would be really unsatisfying for one of the mooks to kill him. On the other hand, dying to a nameless nobody would be poetic justice since that's how he treated the people he killed.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:41
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Triple Elation posted:What bothers me is that these games seem to have this concept of "Evil" as "person who is just generally a raging rear end in a top hat in every possible way". Behind its grindy gameplay and quaint Victorian setting, FL has more slippery slopes than a mountain range on the Elemental Plane of Lube. Even if you start out as a well-meaning paragon of virtue, the writers will use every dirty trick in the book (sunk cost fallacies, consistency traps, Milgram's Experiment stuff, etc.) to slowly but surely guide you into damnation, until you find your character carrying out a murder spree, joining a cannibal cult or setting buildings on fire with innocent people locked inside. And then, when you look back, you probably won't be able to find any particular point where the change happened. Rogue AI Goddess fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 16:44
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Rygar201 posted:How is an inanimate sword penetrating Anti Life Shell significant? I guess the toss itself could be, but in nearly all circumstances Roy throwing his sword is an extremely low percentage move for him. Because nothing else he did was working and it foreshadows a way for him to do it. ikanreed posted:So, Belkar lives a bit longer still. At this point I really don't think Belkar is going to die in any way people can reliably say "now THIS is the time Belkar is going to die."
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Jan 18, 2016 16:50
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greatn posted:Yeah I hate in a alignment RPG in order to get a good "alignment" you have to outright refuse most quest rewards and God forbid you tell someone they're being stingy. That sort of this also has always struck me as incredibly disingenuous too. Like, sure Mr. Peasant, I'll say no your piddly GP award because I know the game is going to give me even more XP (a much more valuable resource) for choosing the Dudley Doright option. I end up doing the "right" thing but for reasons that are completely mercenary.
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Jan 18, 2016 16:56
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