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So we're onto "JJ is a dumbass" now. Fantastic.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:35
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:So we're onto "JJ is a dumbass" now. Fantastic. I don't think he's a dumbass. There are plenty of people much smarter and more talented than I am who aren't particularly "deep thinkers" in the sense that I'm talking about. I just don't think those are the kinds of people who are particularly well-suited to helming a Star Wars movie, because, contrary to popular sentiment, Star Wars isn't just mindless entertainment about aliens and spaceships. In terms of being able to successfully coordinate and direct a competently-made and entertaining feature film, J.J. is the genius and I'm the dumbass.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:39
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:So we're onto "JJ is a dumbass" now. Fantastic. I bet he didn't have a hand in making anything good in his filmography, and that Orci cleaned up all his messes, and other ironic comments
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Jan 18, 2016 00:40
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Frackie Robinson posted:Dying of a broken heart isn't exactly unprecedented in literature So really, my bar to clear for liking the new trilogy more than the PT is Rey can't die for literally no other reason than losing the will to live.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:43
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Whether or not J. J. Abrams is suited to making a Star Wars film is entirely dependent on what you're looking for in a Star Wars film.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:43
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Solenna posted:Mostly what I remember is Padme getting her top ripped in Attack of the Clones to show off her stomach in a really obvious and pandering way, and her dying for literally no other reason than she lost the will to live, which is the lamest loving thing I've ever heard so gently caress the prequels. People always mix up 'strong female character' and 'female character who is strong'. Strength refers to the level of nuance in the writing, not to how 'likeable' a given character is. In either case, Padme kills herself as an act of pure negativity - rejecting her husband and everything he stands for - while Rey goes around doing what she's told and, in exchange, accepting rewards from a series of daddy figures.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:43
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Cnut the Great posted:Once again, it seems like J.J. saw something on the surface of these movies that he wanted to emulate, but he didn't quite grasp the deeper meaning behind it all. And that's not surprising coming from a guy who says he never really liked Star Trek because it was too "intellectual." The guy just isn't a deep thinker--or, to be absolutely fair to him, he just doesn't like movies that require him to be a deep thinker. Indeed, the more charitable conclusion is that J.J. Abrams saw and understood the artsy intellectualism of the OT and especially the PT, and simply rejected it, because it's toxic as far as the fan base is concerned or because he just wasn't interested in making that kind of movie. Or both.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:45
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nevermind
sponges fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:49
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Neurolimal posted:I bet he didn't have a hand in making anything good in his filmography, and that Orci cleaned up all his messes, and other ironic comments I like pretty much all of J.J. Abrams films. And not in an insincere, concern-trolling way. I am consistently entertained by his output. If you look back at my posts from before the film came out, I was defending J.J. Abrams from various people because I thought (and continue to think) that he's a talented director who makes enjoyable films. But I still found TFA fairly disappointing as a Star Wars film because (unsurprisingly) I have certain, very demanding standards when it comes to what makes a Star Wars film good to me. I don't think I've ever freaked out at a person for saying George Lucas wasn't an actor's director, because that's a true statement about one of his weaknesses as a filmmaker. Perhaps you could extend the same courtesy when people make rather measured comments about J.J. Abrams' own weaknesses as a filmmaker? Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:50
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:So we're onto "JJ is a dumbass" now. Fantastic. No more or less so than the Great Satan, Jorge. I think JJ Abrams and some/all of the writers on TFA thought the Empire was meant to represent the USSR, with the Rebels being pro-capitalist good guys, rather than the Vietnam metaphor that Lucas was aiming for. 'Big scary black/grey Gothic architecture dudes with totalitarian government and vague Nazism' in films written during the Cold War are probably going to be interpreted as Soviet. The PT plays a very important role in contextualizing the Empire and Republic as being two halves of the same whole, rather than a good-evil dichotomy. But since there's a pretty strong backlash against them, and they weren't quite as critically successful as the OT, Abrams probably went 'let's keep it simple like with the OT' and Disney went 'yes do that we'll make more money that way'. This is, in my opinion, the root of why the First Order are pretty lovely villains. They want pretty much the same thing as the good guys (the return to the Good Old Days of the Empire/Republic), except they have to be Evil because the plot needs somebody to be Evil. Also, none of the characters so far want to move forward, into a future without an Empire or Republic. The First Order are weird hybrids of Islamic terrorists and neo-cons who wish they were still living in the Cold War. The Resistance are washed-up soldiers who can't let go of 'Nam, or Iraq, or whatever proxy war they lived through. The Republic is the modern Western world. SMG's interpretation is naturally coloured by the fact that he's not a big fan of the status quo, and so he can't really agree with the Resistance or the Republic, and the First Order are lovely villains, so there's nobody to really 'like', except maybe Luke. And Luke doesn't even say or do anything for an entire movie!
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Jan 18, 2016 00:50
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ungulateman posted:And Luke doesn't even say or do anything for an entire movie! It was a lot like a mega-budget TV pilot, honestly, complete with the cliffhanger to make you willing to wait for 30 seconds for Netflix to start the next episode. Given the number of films they're going to make, that's probably OK. Different, but ok.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:55
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Cnut the Great posted:In terms of being able to successfully coordinate and direct a competently-made and entertaining feature film I am going to miss references to old forgotten films though  
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Jan 18, 2016 00:55
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homullus posted:Indeed, the more charitable conclusion is that J.J. Abrams saw and understood the artsy intellectualism of the OT and especially the PT, and simply rejected it, because it's toxic as far as the fan base is concerned or because he just wasn't interested in making that kind of movie. Or both. This is a good point. It's worth remembering that J.J. didn't have complete control over this project. I don't know if we'll ever know to quite what extent, but he was probably hemmed in by Disney to a significant degree, even if just in the broad outlines of what kind of film they were looking for. I say "J.J. this" and "J.J. that" a lot, but it is important to keep in mind that TFA wasn't an auteurist undertaking in the same way the previous films were. It's just hard to inject that kind of nuance into every post critiquing the film. Like, I can't exactly start saying "Disney this" and "Disney that" everywhere, because that would just open up a whole other can of worms with regards to unfair implications. So, "Disney/J.J.", I guess? Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:56
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Solenna posted:That's true, but it comes across like she needed to die for the OT to work, but they didn't want Anakin to do anything TOO evil like actually give her an injury she would die from, and they couldn't think of anything else to kill her, so they had her just give up and die. Doesn't she make the same choice when Vader reveals himself to her that Luke does in ESB?
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Jan 18, 2016 00:56
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BrianWilly posted:Well, she outlives Aragorn. No, I meant Padme dying is like a "bad ending" version of that dumb scene in ROTK where "Arwen's life is now tied to the fate of the One Ring".
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Jan 18, 2016 01:08
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All this hand wringing about JJ is almost irrelevant because he's not directing anymore Star Wars. I'm more worried that SW is going to turn into the MCU. The guy who directed Jurassic World is slated to direct episode 9. please don't turn into the MCU, Star Wars 
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Jan 18, 2016 01:09
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:All this hand wringing about JJ is almost irrelevant because he's not directing anymore Star Wars. I'm more worried that SW is going to turn into the MCU. The guy who directed Jurassic World is slated to direct episode 9. Well I mean in what way wouldn't it? They're already planning about a billion Star Wars movies and ramping up the merch engine the same as the MCU.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:12
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:please don't turn into the MCU, Star Wars
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Jan 18, 2016 01:13
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The whole arena sequence in Attack of the Clones is a better Princess of Mars bit than all of John Carter. I really do wish John Carter was a better movie, it had some neat things in it.  Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:All this hand wringing about JJ is almost irrelevant because he's not directing anymore Star Wars. I'm more worried that SW is going to turn into the MCU. The guy who directed Jurassic World is slated to direct episode 9. When the world ends, the theater holo-signs will be advertising the latest Star Wars and Avengers films. With a special sneak peek at the latest season of The Walking Dead.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:14
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I think TFA is significantly better than any of the Marvel movies. It's cool if you disagree. wyoming posted:The whole arena sequence in Attack of the Clones is a better Princess of Mars bit than all of John Carter. That whole sequence is amazing camp. I love it.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:14
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I think TFA is significantly better than any of the Marvel movies. It's cool if you disagree.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:21
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And I don't care what you think of AoTC, C-3P0 and a battle droid swapping heads is a fantastic gag.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:27
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Machines making machines! How perverse.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:28
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If people find this annoying I'll stop but I totally dig stuff like this: Attack of the Clones  Lawrence of Arabia  This aspect of Star Wars is dead and buried.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:32
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Well it was in the last one, maybe Rian Johnson will be a little different, he's somewhat of an auteur.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:37
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Why wasn't The Force Awakens shot on digital?
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Jan 18, 2016 01:38
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:If people find this annoying I'll stop but I totally dig stuff like this:  
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Jan 18, 2016 01:45
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Bongo Bill posted:Why wasn't The Force Awakens shot on digital? I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic question or not but film has a higher resolution than digital. However, the only genuine 70mm sequence was the escape from Jakku. JJ Abrams also has more experience shooting with film (as in, he's never shot a film with digital).
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Jan 18, 2016 01:53
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turtlecrunch posted:I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic question or not but film has a higher resolution than digital. However, the only genuine 70mm sequence was the escape from Jakku.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:59
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turtlecrunch posted:I'm not sure if this is a sarcastic question or not but film has a higher resolution than digital. However, the only genuine 70mm sequence was the escape from Jakku. It was a sincere question, and this answer satisfies me.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:01
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Why was the decision made to use 70mm for that scene only? 70mm is really expensive and there's a very limited number of theaters that can show it (13 for Star Wars, and in the US only). edit: I lied there are 2 international theaters- Sydney and London -that show it. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 02:01
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turtlecrunch posted:70mm is really expensive and there's a very limited number of theaters that can show it (13 for Star Wars, and in the US only). Then the other half of the question is why bother at all?
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Jan 18, 2016 02:02
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Then the other half of the question is why bother at all? To show off and use in marketing for film nerds. From the director's perspective, if you are given a chance to shoot one sequence in the best format possible, even if it's just that one, you take it.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:People always mix up 'strong female character' and 'female character who is strong'.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:10
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I like7 out of 7 Star Wars films, so I think I like Star Wars the most.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:14
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I do wish there was more discussion of the Ewok films here. They're crazy. They have really weird poo poo going on like flat out wizards, life creation, family slaughter, speedsters.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:19
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homullus posted:Do this and report back. I got the movies on blu-ray and am (slowly) watching them. It's my third time seeing the prequels (one theatrical and one DVD viewing each before) and in some ways it feels like this is the first time I'm really watching them. Episode III is this weekend. I started re-watching TPM for the first time in ages. I can't say I'm having a good time, but I am really impressed with how well the special effects are holding up so far? Jar Jar Binks still looks really good for a CGI character from 1999, especially considering how bad some of the CGI characters from the special edition from just a couple years earlier look. Going from Sy Snootles to Jar Jar is kind of a miracle. I mean, he's still very obviously a CGI character, but Empire Strikes Back Yoda is obviously a puppet. (The various environments so far-- Theed, the Gungan city, etc. also all look nice, but I remember them looking nice and wasn't expecting them not to, so that was less striking. Looking forward to getting to Coruscant, which was always one of my favorite places in Star Wars-- even when I was way angrier about the prequels than I am now, I loved Coruscant.) Anyway, I'm seeing TFA again tomorrow! Anything in particular I should be on the lookout for in a second viewing?
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Jan 18, 2016 02:31
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ungulateman posted:The First Order are weird hybrids of Islamic terrorists and neo-cons who wish they were still living in the Cold War. The Resistance are washed-up soldiers who can't let go of 'Nam, or Iraq, or whatever proxy war they lived through. The Republic is the modern Western world. SMG's interpretation is naturally coloured by the fact that he's not a big fan of the status quo, and so he can't really agree with the Resistance or the Republic, and the First Order are lovely villains, so there's nobody to really 'like', except maybe Luke. Going even further: what is Rey's political stance? That's to say why does Rey kill stormtroopers? In A New Hope, we know right away that Luke hates the Empire because it's his status quo. We soon learn that he's always dreamed of living in a specific type of utopia: Alderaan. Even after the literal Alderaan is destroyed, Luke persists and becomes a rebel guerilla. With Rey, her reasons are purely 'personal'. She doesn't care about the map to Luke Skywalker that represents Leia's vision of peace. Rey just assists BB-8 because he's cute and helpless, and reminds her of herself when she was a kid. After that, her motivations are basic self-defense, feeling a sense of belonging, and - at the very end - vengeance for Han. This is what I mean about Force Awakens being the first 'apolitical' Star Wars. Even Episode 6 had the 'native' Ewoks rising up all Avatar-style. korusan posted:You're looking at Padme across three films and Rey across one though. We cannot truthfully articulate the entirety of Rey's character yet because we don't know what aspects are going to be revisted. If that is true, then this movie fails on its own terms. When I say Padme is a stronger character, I mean that you can isolate her characterization in any individual prequel and it's stronger. In that specific instance, I'm talking about Episode 3. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 02:36
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:If people find this annoying I'll stop but I totally dig stuff like this: It's not dead and buried, it just references newer movies Because ur old
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Jan 18, 2016 02:39
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Neurolimal posted:[Force Awakens] references newer movies Such as?
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Jan 18, 2016 02:43
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