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As a Millennial I posted:Okay, so here's the video where he first talks about CPS. He starts off saying that CPS kidnapped his kids, then immediately says his brother-in-law has them, but CPS is threatening to take them. Maybe somebody who has more experience with lovely parents can explain that. I'm guessing the brother-in-law is a suitable adult placement. Parents can stave off removal orders by having the kid stay with somebody else. Rhesus Pieces posted:Isn't being abusive or neglectful enough to have CPS take your children away a pretty high bar to reach? They don't just sweep in on a whim and snatch up kids who aren't in mortal danger because their stepdad wanted to play soldier of fortune for two weeks, right? Oh yeah, usually there has been a long history of fuckups, like "your 6 year old was found miles away from home without a jacket" or "your house is literally collapsing."
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Jan 18, 2016 22:17
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ToastyPotato posted:You do realize that the police threads still exist right? And that people can read it? Its almost like there was more then that one very specific topic that was addressed in that thread
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Jan 18, 2016 22:18
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As a Millennial I posted:This guy's facebook is the best I'm still boggling that these guys haven't figured out why a federal wildlife refuge that does research on wild animals (SUCH AS COUNTING FROGS) would have federal cameras set up in the area.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:18
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Thump! posted:I'm starting to get the impression that these folk aren't the brightest cowpokes at the ranch. Touche.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:19
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Jarmak posted:Its almost like there was more then that one very specific topic that was addressed in that thread But you were just talking about deescalation, which is pretty specific. 
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Jan 18, 2016 22:20
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All my friends' moms who have facebook must be schizophrenic
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Jan 18, 2016 22:20
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Malleum posted:John Brown was hanged for treason despite not having the ability to start or maintain an armed insurrection. Ability has nothing to do with whether or not a traitor is a traitor. Huh, I had no idea Brown was treason. I think you're going to have a hard time securing treason over sedition for a defensive position (even if it's defensive while committing other crimes), but I'll concede that my line of argument wasn't as strong as I thought. Point you. ToastyPotato posted:Well you're in luck! The obvious and pretty normal course of action here would be to ask that they drop their weapons and turn themselves in within an given time frame. If they refuse, then it is not the police that are escalating anything, but rather, the armed criminals who are choosing violence. Anything that happens after that is their fault. quote:The issue with a lot of the police shootings that you and orc seem to be referring to is that many police officers do not give people enough time to respond, or, if they do, they respond to unarmed individuals with mag dumps. That is very different than a group of criminals threatening to shoot any cops that attempt to stop them. But I am sure you know that though, but are purposefully neglecting that bit.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:24
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UIApplication posted:All my friends' moms who have facebook must be schizophrenic Possible in theory. Or maybe that's just how they learned to write on Facebook because that's how their 'writing on Facebook' role models generally wrote. We don't know. Horking Delight posted:I'm still boggling that these guys haven't figured out why a federal wildlife refuge that does research on wild animals (SUCH AS COUNTING FROGS) would have federal cameras set up in the area. Or infrastructure of legitimate public safety and security value. Then again, these are people that believe concepts like 'research' and 'public' are absurd.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:24
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kartikeya posted:They are actively endangering people, children included... Wouldn't the quandary be that the way in which they're actively endangering their children is by bringing them into a situation in which they might be caught in the middle of a firefight - a firefight which is most likely to take place if the cops go in and try to arrest them. You're saying that they should be arrested for putting them in danger, but they're not immediately in danger until the cops attempt the arrest. Utterly agree that they should be arrested and all that. It's when, not if.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:25
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theflyingorc posted:Huh, I had no idea Brown was treason. Honestly, I think the sanctuary is a decent enough place since it would be isolated already, but I also understand not wanting to seriously damage the building and records present. That is a valid point. Getting them in town is too risky for bi-standers. Perhaps getting them in transit between locations, since that is far less defensible of a position for them. The cops should give them every opportunity to surrender peacefully, no matter where it goes down though. Letting them go on indefinitely and hoping for "the right moment" actually gives the criminals a chance to escalate things on their own, imo. The feds didn't want to escalate at the ranch, it ended "peacefully" but now here we are with those clowns now committing more crimes, and still armed.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:28
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ToastyPotato posted:But you were just talking about deescalation, which is pretty specific. No, I was talking about deescalation and you brought up some irrelevant poo poo about mistakenly shooting people who aren't armed because police react too fast and tried to pretend the deescalation arguments never happened. ToastyPotato posted:But you were just talking about deescalation, which is pretty specific. edit: autocorrect is a bitch Jarmak fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 22:30
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Jarmak posted:No, I was talking about deescalation, you brought up some irrelevant poo poo about mistakenly shooting people who aren't armed because police react too fast and tried to pretend the deescalation arrangements never happened. Deescalation was heavily discussed in the police threads as a direct result of the recent series of shootings of individuals who themselves did not actually have guns, and some of whom were killed very quickly, with the most recent discussion being about Tamir Rice before the thread got locked. Please stop trying to remove context from things so that you can smash them into what ever weird points you are trying to make.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:34
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ToastyPotato posted:Honestly, I think the sanctuary is a decent enough place since it would be isolated already, but I also understand not wanting to seriously damage the building and records present. That is a valid point. Getting them in town is too risky for bi-standers. Perhaps getting them in transit between locations, since that is far less defensible of a position for them. The cops should give them every opportunity to surrender peacefully, no matter where it goes down though. I think that, in isolation, the action at the reserve is going to burn out. Media coverage continues to drop, I haven't heard anything about new supporters in several days, the whole town, including the Revolutionary War cosplay Committee of Safety wants them to leave. We also haven't really heard anything about intimidation of citizens in over a week (it may or may not still be happening). If they let people start similar actions elsewhere that's the single most likely thing to keep momentum, so I'd love if the FBI at least nabbed them as they cross state lines.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:36
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theflyingorc posted:Yeah, and there's definitely a difference between it being on Bundy's property and being on Federal land, there's no question. The thing most concerning me is that tarp man was able to drive to Utah, literally with the intention of starting the same thing there. He should have been pulled over by 2 dozen agents on the way there and taken into custody. Agreed. I think what is setting people off though is that the feds haven't even announced that these people are now wanted criminals. If warrants were at least issued, then at least people would feel that something were being done. As it currently stands, these guys could leave tomorrow, charged with no crimes. It bothers people.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:39
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theflyingorc posted:Huh, I had no idea Brown was treason. Brown was tried for treason against the state of Virginia, he was also charged with multiple counts of murder. ToastyPotato posted:Deescalation was heavily discussed in the police threads as a direct result of the recent series of shootings of individuals who themselves did not actually have guns, and some of whom were killed very quickly, with the most recent discussion being about Tamir Rice before the thread got locked. Please stop trying to remove context from things so that you can smash them into what ever weird points you are trying to make. Deescalation was heavily discussed in the context of police creating the situation in which they are under threat and therefore have to use deadly force, the most common examples being stepping in front of a car and then shooting if the suspect didn't stop and (more applicable here) instances where they attempted to apprehend a suspect who was not currently a threat knowing that doing so would likely lead to an escalation in violence. Instances where the person who was shot was in fact clearly a threat but the police was labeled murderers for creating the situation where the person became a threat. Police getting twitchy and blasting someone reaching for their wallet is a completely different issue, and while it would happen less often under a policy of deescalation because the police would be avoiding confrontations all together, I find it really hard to believe that you're in good faith unable to differentiate this with the actual discussion about deescalation.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:44
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hey lets not talk about the content of a different thread especially if its the cop or gun thread
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Jan 18, 2016 22:46
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theflyingorc posted:Huh, I had no idea Brown was treason. Proving treason is for when they surrender and are on trial, not when an armed takeover of federal land is still ongoing. many johnnys posted:Treason is a bullshit charge, please don't defend it. I couldn't care less about their disloyalty, it's the part where an armed paramilitary group marched on federal property, took it over, and is in the middle of occupying it while the FBI and local law enforcement do nothing and can't even stop them from crossing state lines to export their insurrection. That's a huge loving deal and I'd like to know what you think is more concerning than the FBI allowing paranoid, armed traitors go wherever the gently caress they want without even a hint of resistance.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:46
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Malleum posted:I couldn't care less about their disloyalty, it's the part where an armed paramilitary group marched on federal property, took it over, and is in the middle of occupying it while the FBI and local law enforcement do nothing and can't even stop them from crossing state lines to export their insurrection. That's a huge loving deal and I'd like to know what you think is more concerning than the FBI allowing paranoid, armed traitors go wherever the gently caress they want without even a hint of resistance. hooray?
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Jan 18, 2016 22:48
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Malleum posted:I couldn't care less about their disloyalty, it's the part where an armed paramilitary group marched on federal property, took it over, and is in the middle of occupying it while the FBI and local law enforcement do nothing and can't even stop them from crossing state lines to export their insurrection. That's a huge loving deal and I'd like to know what you think is more concerning than the FBI allowing paranoid, armed traitors go wherever the gently caress they want without even a hint of resistance. It's easier for American police to justify attacking and killing unarmed people after the fact than to go after white, right-wing terrorists with rifles?
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Jan 18, 2016 22:50
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I think it's amazing that you people are actually gleefully awaiting a bloodbath. We already know there's a racial double standard in the way American Law Enforcement treats people. So you won't be satisfied until somebody approaches these idiots exercising the same lack of planning, training, and compassion we've seen levied upon black communities? When you and everybody else is well aware it would result in a firefight that would likely take many lives, perhaps including law-enforcement? Not to mention create a martyr call to every armed libertarian who doesn't particularly like their life. A sudden and deadly solution to this is no solution at all for many reasons I suspect were laid out quite early in this thread. You can make your hateful and craven cheers for death known all you want, but don't loving go back afterwards and pretend you still have all kinds of grand plans for our future. This 'us and them' poo poo is A HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM: if you're gonna rub your hands together smugly awaiting the moment when 'they' get what they deserve, what does that make you?
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Jan 18, 2016 22:50
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BRJohnson posted:I think it's amazing that you people are actually gleefully awaiting a bloodbath. Hey Pete, shouldn't you be streaming now? obviously joking, just too good of a setup to waste
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Jan 18, 2016 22:52
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I am not a book posted:Hey Pete, shouldn't you be streaming now? Couldn't be Pete, he didn't say "libtard" a single time
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Jan 18, 2016 22:54
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Well, we did have an E/N thread here about a goon having his kids taken away by CPS because he blew the family budget on a gaming supercomputer, so we do have case studies right here on SomethingAwful! This was actually one of my first thoughts, especially after reading the YouTube comments that seem to be from Blaine's brother and father: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZC2dq74-_4 (Warning: that's a Pete Santilly video, so you may just want to hit pause and skip to the comments). quote:randy cooper 3 hours ago quote:terry cooper 2 hours ago It's eerily similar to the story of that goon from E/N. 
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Jan 18, 2016 22:58
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Ha, yeah I wish that was anything but the standard neglect story.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:00
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chitoryu12 posted:It's easier for American police to justify attacking and killing unarmed people after the fact than to go after white, right-wing terrorists with rifles? I mean, even if you ignore the 'killing' part; cops thrashing peaceful hippy protests was practically a sport back in the Vietnam era. Even in the modern day take a look at the John Pike pepper spraying video that went viral. Dude was basically macing a student sit in with all the pomp and demeanor that one would have watering their garden. I absolutely believe the cops and the feds are taking the kids gloves approach with these guys because these protesters can and desperately want to fight back.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:01
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chitoryu12 posted:It's easier for American police to justify attacking and killing unarmed people after the fact than to go after white, right-wing terrorists with rifles?
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Jan 18, 2016 23:06
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Perfectly Safe posted:Wouldn't the quandary be that the way in which they're actively endangering their children is by bringing them into a situation in which they might be caught in the middle of a firefight - a firefight which is most likely to take place if the cops go in and try to arrest them. You're saying that they should be arrested for putting them in danger, but they're not immediately in danger until the cops attempt the arrest. Yes. Part of my anger at this situation is that there are children there precisely because the Feds adopted a 'let's just wait and see and do nothing' attitude, and when several days passed they brought their families in. Now Cooper's kids are stashed who knows where. As bad as it would be that those kids would be put in danger by any violent action, it would be worse if there were even more kids, or even more dudes with guns to take those violent actions. This is, of course, the entire reason children are there; they're hostages to discourage law enforcement action. I don't agree, however, that they're not in danger by being there though. Surrounded by that many guns, that many paranoid loons, and that much irresponsible gun handling? It's a tragedy waiting to happen.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:07
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BRJohnson posted:I think it's amazing that you people are actually gleefully awaiting a bloodbath. I think it's amazing that you didn't read anything of this thread except for the first two or three pages.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:08
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BRJohnson posted:I think it's amazing that you people are actually gleefully awaiting a bloodbath. The fact that armed terrorists trying to stage an insurrection and seizing federal property are practically ignored and allowed to come and go as they please is evidence of the double-standard. We're in a situation where it would be perfectly allowable for the police to make arrests and raids, and instead American police expend all of their violence on unarmed protesters or houses that get mistaken for drug lord dens while letting white right-wing guys have the run of the place as long as they don't actively start murdering other people. The message is clear: American police will run you through the wringer and possibly murder you as long as they think they can get away with it. As soon as they need to put themselves at risk to stop domestic terrorism or arrest people who are on the same side of the political spectrum, suddenly they screech to a halt and just wait to see if everyone goes away quietly by themselves.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:12
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Crain posted:Also the entire list of County officials because they declined to rent any buildings or venues to the Bundy's. Which is super illegal. Like SO goddamned illegal. Too bad Sovereign Citizens aren't a protected class 
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Jan 18, 2016 23:15
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Lead out in cuffs posted:(Warning: that's a Pete Santilly video, so you may just want to hit pause and skip to the comments). What does it say about the world that we're skipping a youtube video in order to read the comments? chitoryu12 posted:The fact that armed terrorists trying to stage an insurrection and seizing federal property are practically ignored and allowed to come and go as they please is evidence of the double-standard. We're in a situation where it would be perfectly allowable for the police to make arrests and raids, and instead American police expend all of their violence on unarmed protesters or houses that get mistaken for drug lord dens while letting white right-wing guys have the run of the place as long as they don't actively start murdering other people. For about the 80th time, "American police" aren't a thing.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:17
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chitoryu12 posted:The fact that armed terrorists trying to stage an insurrection and seizing federal property are practically ignored and allowed to come and go as they please is evidence of the double-standard. We're in a situation where it would be perfectly allowable for the police to make arrests and raids, and instead American police expend all of their violence on unarmed protesters or houses that get mistaken for drug lord dens while letting white right-wing guys have the run of the place as long as they don't actively start murdering other people. !My job does not involve police work or public relations! Now that that's out of the way... If the police/government were to take action resulting in a bloodbath, that would be BAD. Right? It discredits this group and their cause more to be (seemingly) ignored, especially given the alternative (swift and immediate intervention, deaths, government looks bad, hundreds more low-information americans grab their guns and take over the nearest building with a state flag and no guard).
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Jan 18, 2016 23:20
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http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_occupiers_recr.html They're totally going away guys, just keep ignoring them. (Although lol, two whole ranchers, they're in the big times now). Yes, I too think that it's a good plan to log and ranch on federally protected land. Surely, there could be no reason why the federal government doesn't let us do that to our heart's content other than TYRANNY.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:21
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Well, we did have an E/N thread here about a goon having his kids taken away by CPS because he blew the family budget on a gaming supercomputer, so we do have case studies right here on SomethingAwful! Yeah, but that guy got a bunch of therapy, got his kids back, and got his life squared away. He was a success story.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:33
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BRJohnson posted:It discredits this group and their cause more to be (seemingly) ignored, especially given the alternative (swift and immediate intervention, deaths, government looks bad, hundreds more low-information americans grab their guns and take over the nearest building with a state flag and no guard). The self-selective powers of Internet communities/echo chambers (and a platform the size of YouTube) means that nothing gets ignored anymore, regardless of even the magpie focus of the cable news cycle. Doesn't help that the ideology is decades old, besides. Unless you have some other way of silencing them that magically doesn't involve violence, in the age of portable power and ubiquitous data coverage. Even foster children belonging to one of them being recovered by CPS couldn't get them off the occupation at this point, and no one is willing to boycott their custom. And when Bundy's dad did it they actually managed to outlast 'the fed' they don't care if it's the BLM or the FBI and they've never met the Marshals or the National Guard or the straight-up Army. What can actually convince them to leave on their own at this point? Or has a militant atavistic white pastoralist invasion actually managed to get away with stealing, even annexing, federal land? In which case, what even is the point of law enforcement anymore? Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm hilariously, incoherently wrong. But I don't see how. v v v Language is dead. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 23:37
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Caller on Santilli show saying the PA III%ers who were in Bunkerville, NV are accusing him of being an agent provocateur, creating a false flag honey pot on behalf of the federal government. Pete Santilli's response: "Am I a provocateur? Absolutely."
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Jan 18, 2016 23:38
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theflyingorc posted:hey lets not talk about the content of a different thread  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 18, 2016 23:42
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Lead out in cuffs posted:This was actually one of my first thoughts, especially after reading the YouTube comments that seem to be from Blaine's brother and father: As a society, we really should stop encouraging every single person to have and raise children if they don't want to and/or feel they are unsuitable for the job. Like, there should be cultural signals that say "Hey! It's perfectly okay if you want to just be married or single or whatever for your adult life! That's fine! Only have kids if you feel it's right for you and it's in your heart to do so!" But, instead, there's this stigma against not having kids which ends up pressuring people to have kids and stay married in toxic relationships "for the kids' sake" when they really shouldn't be. Instead, it's just the next "logical" step that everyone is "supposed" to do. This is really harmful as a society to encourage and look down upon for doing otherwise. Please, spare your partner and especially the potential kids the trauma if you aren't able to be a good parent or it's not in your personality or whatever to do so. (Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder about this, why do you ask?)
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Jan 18, 2016 23:44
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BRJohnson posted:!My job does not involve police work or public relations! Do you think that if they get ignored, they're just going to walk away? As opposed to doubling down until they get forced out or using their seeming immunity from the law to pull lovely stuff like....I dunno, kidnapping children and destroying federal property? It's not like the FBI has blockaded these guys and is trying to starve them out. These people are committing pretty serious crimes, but are being allowed to come and go as they please (as long as they're not dumb enough to drive off in a stolen federal vehicle) and receive packages without monitoring. The "ignoring" has involved giving them almost total immunity to the law. You say that an arrest or raid would be a bloodbath. But they have to be arrested at some point, since they're breaking laws just by squatting on federal property (to say nothing of theft of utilities, destruction of property like wildlife cameras, and theft of federal property like vehicles). So do you try to arrest them after they leave? Assuming you can even identify every single protester and grab them at their houses later, you're afraid that they'll shoot back if the cops show up so you can't really avoid violence anyway. Do you try to arrest the stream of protesters coming out of the building? You've just caused that bloodbath. Unless all of them decide to surrender peacefully en masse, the only way to actually make them face the consequences for their crimes is to do something that may or may not incite violence. If you decide to just let them go, you've sent a clear message that they're untouchable even by federal law enforcement and that as long as you have enough guns, you can freely thumb your nose at the police and do whatever you want on federal property without fear of reprisal.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:46
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chitoryu12 posted:The message is clear: American police will run you through the wringer and possibly murder you as long as they think they can get away with it. As soon as they need to put themselves at risk to stop domestic terrorism or arrest people who are on the same side of the political spectrum, suddenly they screech to a halt and just wait to see if everyone goes away quietly by themselves. Yes, this exactly. This is also why all of the  'ing by Main Painframe and others ITT about the poor, innocent militants at the federal building or why the authorities should do literally nothing is so infuriating is because of the double-standard you've pointed out.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:53
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