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Cat Mattress posted:People are already bombing Daesh, but so far they have stubbornly refused to raze Iran to the ground despite Bibi going "can you do this little genocide for me, pwetty pwease" every five seconds whenever there's an American official in the vicinity. So yes it's obvious why Israel prefers Daesh to Iran. Convenient too if a shia/sunni civil war inside islam divides your enemies. But yeah, I expect to hear my mom telling me about this in a near hysterical tone, especially once it gets deleted and becomes a cover-up. It does show what jack-asses they are though, gently caress.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:22
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fade5 posted:I honestly don't know if even the people on the ground know the answer to the first part; Hifter/Haftar is a very polarizing figure. The dude is experienced as all hell and has a lot of support, and also a lot of enemies since Haftar loving hates Islamists, even moderate ones. The US would almost certainly love if he was the one commanding the Army once everything is settled, and right now he commands the Libyan Army under the control of the internationally recognized Tobruk government (the eastern part of Libya). That guy is a colossal pile of poo poo. Given half a chance he'll definitely institute a dictatorship. There's a reason he's backed by Al Sisi and the other despots of the region.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:22
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MothraAttack posted:How legit is ANHA again? They're claiming the Turks have entered Syria near Jarablus tonight. They get good footage but reporting wise they are a little above press tv.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:01
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MothraAttack posted:How legit is ANHA again? They're claiming the Turks have entered Syria near Jarablus tonight. I'm a bit sceptical of anything they do that doesn't have pictures, they have a tendency just to carry firat stories (which themselves are usually just useful for the translated PKK official statements). But there is some chatter about something. Daily Sabah has a bulletin from the state broadcaster talking about some kind of mine clearing operation at the border (not carried in English for some reason): http://www.dailysabah.com/arabic/politics/2016/01/19/turkey-removes-laying-mines-near-turkish-syrian-borders And there's a statement from Furaq Sultan Murad doing the rounds supposedly warning civilians of some kind of upcoming military action. This is coming off the back of a cross border incident that Turkey has imposed a media black out on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35342291 Lots of talk anyway
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Jan 19, 2016 22:07
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It's pretty clear the intention with that statement was just to try and hype up Iran as a threat to Israel. They've had many a PR campaign about the "Islamic State of Iran." Quite transparent this time.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:12
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The Turkish army may, or may not, have entered Jarabulus
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Jan 19, 2016 22:31
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A new issue of the ISIS magazine, Dabiq, is hot off the presses. They confirmed Jihadi John's death: https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/689549240691998720 And also that he... took kids to the park  https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/689550094132219904
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Jan 19, 2016 22:35
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ShutteredIn posted:A new issue of the ISIS magazine, Dabiq, is hot off the presses. They confirmed Jihadi John's death: What a nice guy.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:48
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Peshmerga forces destroyed 1000s of Arab homes in a revenge campaign according to the new amnesty report release don Jan 20. https://twitter.com/KreaseChan/status/689157758550208513
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Jan 19, 2016 22:55
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Kafka Esq. posted:I'm watching The Spymasters: CIA in the Crosshairs. Everyone takes responsibility for failures on 9/11, Iraq WMDs, even the sheer impossibility of nation building. What propaganda are you talking about? Its the most frank conversation you'll hear outside the bedroom from the executors of America's intelligence community and the pressures of the management. For instance, I think they were all pretty clear that if, during their tenure, they thought there was a nuclear bomb in NYC, drat the rule of law, you can sort out what is and ain't torture after the threat is neutralized. If that's what amounts to propaganda in America these days, why'd Russia Times and Al Jazeera even come here?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:30
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Squalid posted:That guy is a colossal pile of poo poo. Given half a chance he'll definitely institute a dictatorship. There's a reason he's backed by Al Sisi and the other despots of the region. If he keeps the Islamists out of power like Sisi has, then that sounds like a pretty good bargain to me. Islamists are always the worst possible option, and serving as an alternative to them makes up for an awful lot of dictatorial tendencies. Savy Saracen salad posted:Peshmerga forces destroyed 1000s of Arab homes in a revenge campaign according to the new amnesty report release don Jan 20. These are the people who have been aupporting ISIS though. Even if they weren't actually picking up a gun and fighting for ISIS, anyone who collaborated with them deserves to be made an example of.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:42
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Liberal_L33t posted:If he keeps the Islamists out of power like Sisi has, then that sounds like a pretty good bargain to me. Islamists are always the worst possible option, and serving as an alternative to them makes up for an awful lot of dictatorial tendencies. You do realize that one of the major reasons Islamists are a threat is because we applied your thinking only for "Commies" instead of "Islamists" during the Cold War? Can't wait to see what the next ideology of the oppressed we're gonna have to oppose democracy to crush is gonna be next in 30 years 
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Jan 19, 2016 23:49
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Cugel the Clever posted:
lol is this reverse psychology
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Jan 19, 2016 23:50
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Squalid posted:That guy is a colossal pile of poo poo. Given half a chance he'll definitely institute a dictatorship. There's a reason he's backed by Al Sisi and the other despots of the region. How would you keep Libya from becoming the next Somalia, if not by supporting one of the few figures in the region who understands that political islam has never resulted in sustainable economic development and expansion of state institutions?
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Jan 19, 2016 23:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lsHWLpPfAk
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Jan 20, 2016 00:04
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Liberal_L33t posted:These are the people who have been aupporting ISIS though. Even if they weren't actually picking up a gun and fighting for ISIS, anyone who collaborated with them deserves to be made an example of. I usually don't advocate ravenge attacks on civilian populations, but...
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Jan 20, 2016 00:07
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Liberal_L33t posted:If he keeps the Islamists out of power like Sisi has, then that sounds like a pretty good bargain to me. Islamists are always the worst possible option, and serving as an alternative to them makes up for an awful lot of dictatorial tendencies. How many times do you have to be reminded that Egypt under Sisi has been more authoritarian and used Islam in a far more repressive way than Morsi or the MB could have aspired to? I'm not defending Morsi or Islamists, but poo poo like this is how jihadist groups are able to recruit and flourish. quote:These are the people who have been aupporting ISIS though. Even if they weren't actually picking up a gun and fighting for ISIS, anyone who collaborated with them deserves to be made an example of. Collective punishment is A-OK and totally not a war crime, no sirree!
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Jan 20, 2016 00:13
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Kurtofan posted:lol is this reverse psychology I don't see what's so baffling about it. Hezbollah has been historically more of a threat to Israel than ISIS. Even if one disagrees this sort of "who is the greatest threat in a black and white universe" the thinking, it is pretty common worldwide. For other examples see pretty much any policy discussion from any hardliner anywhere, or for the comic sans version, literally any thread in d&d.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:17
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eSports Chaebol posted:You do realize that one of the major reasons Islamists are a threat is because we applied your thinking only for "Commies" instead of "Islamists" during the Cold War? Can't wait to see what the next ideology of the oppressed we're gonna have to oppose democracy to crush is gonna be next in 30 years Your comparison isn't even remotely appropriate, even because "we" (I suppose you mean the USA, or the west in general) don't oppose Islamism. In fact Libya, Egypt and Syria used to be pretty secular before the Arab Spring, if that term still means anything.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:17
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Cippalippus posted:Your comparison isn't even remotely appropriate, even because "we" (I suppose you mean the USA, or the west in general) don't oppose Islamism. In fact Libya, Egypt and Syria used to be pretty secular before the Arab Spring, if that term still means anything. My comparison is fine because the people as crazy as you back then said people like Nixon were closet Commies who supported the Reds.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:19
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I must've missed the American struggle to un-islamize Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or their many other allies in the area, then.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:25
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Dear Iran, Israel, and KSA - nuke each other or get along - enough bullshit. Thanks. No Islamic States, No Jewish States - just the New Old Land. 
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Jan 20, 2016 01:35
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Cippalippus posted:I must've missed the American struggle to un-islamize Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or their many other allies in the area, then. They've both been "partners in the War on Terror," so they at least pay enough lip service against islamists for us to sell them arms.
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Jan 20, 2016 01:58
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Liberal_L33t posted:If he keeps the Islamists out of power like Sisi has, then that sounds like a pretty good bargain to me. Islamists are always the worst possible option, and serving as an alternative to them makes up for an awful lot of dictatorial tendencies. Go gently caress gently caress yourself Liberal_L33t. In a just world you'd hang from the lamppost next to Assad and all the other fascists. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 20, 2016 02:41
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Squalid posted:Go gently caress gently caress yourself Liberal_L33t. In a just world you'd hang from the lamppost next to Assad and all the other fascists. The world ain't just, Squalid, and it never will be. You know who truly believes in a just world and views themselves as the instruments to bring it about? ISILites.
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Jan 20, 2016 02:55
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Cugel the Clever posted:
Dumb comment, of course, but historically non-Palestinian Arab terrorist organizations (and even quite a few Palestinian terrorist organizations like Abu Nidal) have taken very little concrete action against Israel despite a lot of bluster. Iran probably is a far greater strategic threat to them than ISIS. I am amazed that despite the dependence of Saudi and Israel on US support, they have shown a complete unwillingness to change their strategies in light of US rapprochement with Iran. It's going to do far more damage in the long run for both of them to be so publicly critical of the US. Xandu fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 03:38
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Maybe they think that rapprochement will just be a fad and once the relationship between the US and Iran turns south again, they'll be in a stronger position? e: and don't all the potential presidential candidates besides Saunders have more hardline positions towards Iran than Obama? Ragingsheep fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 03:47
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Best Friends posted:I don't see what's so baffling about it. Hezbollah has been historically more of a threat to Israel than ISIS. Even if one disagrees this sort of "who is the greatest threat in a black and white universe" the thinking, it is pretty common worldwide. For other examples see pretty much any policy discussion from any hardliner anywhere, or for the comic sans version, literally any thread in d&d. Exactly. Who is ISIS killing? Hezbollah? Check. Syrian soldiers? Check. Iranian soldiers? Check. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine? Check. Israel is looking at all its most hated enemies and watching them all go to war with each other in an infinite meatgrinder and it's like loving Christmas to them. Remember, Israel's last major dust-up was with Hezbollah in Lebanon and now they're watching those same guys get their legs blown off fighting their fellow Arabs. They're watching the Islamic world get sucked into a major sectarian regional war and all those guys who are normally chanting "Death to Israel!" are now chanting "Death to apostates!" They can even bomb Hezbollah with impunity inside Syria and Hezbollah don't do poo poo about it because they can't. Cippalippus posted:I must've missed the American struggle to un-islamize Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or their many other allies in the area, then. He's got a point guys. For realsies he even recanted all the good things he said about Assad several weeks ago, I dunno if y'all missed it but Cippalippus was like "Yup I take it all back, that dude is hosed up"
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Jan 20, 2016 04:02
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My Imaginary GF posted:The world ain't just, Squalid, and it never will be. You know who truly believes in a just world and views themselves as the instruments to bring it about? ISILites. Whatever man. At least I can convince myself you're playing a character, if perhaps one that's often cruel. But Liberal_L33t is actually evil, and the mere sight of his avatar turns my stomach.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:23
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Ragingsheep posted:e: and don't all the potential presidential candidates besides Saunders have more hardline positions towards Iran than Obama? I'll probably just end up casting a protest vote for my not-yet-constitutionally-eligible self come November.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:36
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Xandu posted:Dumb comment, of course, but historically non-Palestinian Arab terrorist organizations (and even quite a few Palestinian terrorist organizations like Abu Nidal) have taken very little concrete action against Israel despite a lot of bluster. Iran probably is a far greater strategic threat to them than ISIS. Israel isn't a monolith though, I think even other Likud politicians, much less Herzog, would have a different policy. Netanyahu was reportedly close to normalizing ties with Assad before the civil war started, and that would have made a lot of difference. You also have to compare rhetoric to actions. It's true that Iran poses much more of a threat than ISIS which realistically does not pose a direct threat to Israel. Israel is of course also playing both sides, supporting both the FSA/Nusra and Assad at different points. There's also the point that Israel is covertly allied with all of the Gulf states and about to renew ties with Turkey, who are both pretty much the base for ISIL's support. Closer ties with all of those parties really please the US, so in a way they're just embracing regional multinationalism and alliances just as the state department dreamed for decades.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:41
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Squalid posted:Whatever man. At least I can convince myself you're playing a character, if perhaps one that's often cruel. But Liberal_L33t is actually evil, and the mere sight of his avatar turns my stomach. Not gonna lie I'm kinda in the same boat except I think MIGF is just mentally ill.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:06
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Squalid posted:Whatever man. At least I can convince myself you're playing a character, if perhaps one that's often cruel. But Liberal_L33t is actually evil, and the mere sight of his avatar turns my stomach. Nah, evil takes actual action. He's just another poster on an Internet forum who will never have to be the one to take the lives of the millions like he fantasizes about. Don't give him any credit for anything, he's nothing but words on a screen. Real talk time, I've seen it said on here plenty of times, and have said it plenty of times to myself, that anyone in AQ/AQI/ISIS deserves death. It's a very easy thing to say in a vacuum, which is why we do it. Hell, it's even easy when you actually have some form of power to send others to do the dirty work of going on a raid or dropping a bomb. It's easy because you are removed from the situation and you don't have to face the realities of weighing the cost of a life. They deserve it, case closed. I learned how wrong I was when I had to sit across from members of AQI and was forced by reality to accept that they weren't something that was so easy to characterize and define. Sure plenty were diehard idealogues telling me how they would cut off my head when they got out. Just as many were scared teens in over their head, or who had no other options. When you have to be the one to talk to them, compile their evidence packet that may get them hung, poo poo changes in a hurry. When you work every day for months tracking monsters that you can justify killing, it really turns your world upside down when you are forced to accept their humanity. Another element were the so-called collaborators, the family members at a house, or the friends from the neighborhood. Or even the local group trying to defend the neighborhood from shiite death-squads who worked with AQI because they were the only ally available. Many of these collaborators are those who turned on and died fighting AQI once CF actually figured out working with, rather apart from the population was the best and only solution. It's easy to decide their fate from a distance, when you will never have to be the one to do it. Sorry this is rambling, and it may just be partly for my own benefit of getting my own thoughts out. I hold many of you here in high regard, But honestly, we all need to check ourselves with comments like all of group "x" is worthy of death, because its never so black and white. This isn't some holier than thou speech, because I am as guilty of it as the next person, even with the experiences I've shared. I'm just a guy who never had to go out and actually kill or capture anyone myself, they were just pictures, packets and reports to me. Until they weren't. It's not a fun thing to look back on, so if you think all of them should be outright killed, question if that means you have the stomach to do it.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:26
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Bait and Swatch posted:Nah, evil takes actual action. He's just another poster on an Internet forum who will never have to be the one to take the lives of the millions like he fantasizes about. Don't give him any credit for anything, he's nothing but words on a screen. This is an amazing post and I wish I could 5 star it. You're contributions are always the best Bait and Swatch, and I just want to say thank you for posting here.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:01
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 I can't watch ISIS propaganda any more. Not because of the violence or or the ideology, but because when I see their fighters, especially the brash young men, they remind me much too much of guys I knew in high school and college. Just as eager to fight and gently caress, not too interested in the specifics of who or why. There was one video in particular that hit me shortly after the fall of Mosul, in which three guys were sitting on bench acting real stoked, excitedly talking about the sex slaves they were going to get. The subject was horrific, but their mannerisms and attitude were terrifyingly familiar, just a couple guys on their way to a party. I was reminded for some reason of of one conversation in particular, senior year of highschool, in which a classmate couldn't stop talking about his enlistment in the marines. He said quote "Hell yeah I can't wait to go to Iraq and kill some loving Hajis!" with a big grin on his face, like you couldn't quite tell if he was serious. Dude probably washed out before he ever made it to a real deployment, but still it represents for me the shocking ease with which we sometimes put aside our humanity.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:10
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So, to be clear, the Russians are now legitimately also bombing the Islamic State, and their intervention on behalf of Assad is actually working in at least a modest sense? This seems to go against so many predictions in this thread... What happened to the TOW campaign, anyway? WaPo is saying that the TOW supply is slowing down, any reason for that? https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...7d51_story.html
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Jan 20, 2016 08:39
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ComradeKane posted:So, to be clear, the Russians are now legitimately also bombing the Islamic State, and their intervention on behalf of Assad is actually working in at least a modest sense? They also bombed the regional offices of the Syrian Emergency Task Force in Idlib last week. They're one of the biggest humanitarian aid networks in the country, and their smuggling network is routinely persecuted by the regime. Bring beds to a remote village for kids and Assad's torturing you or the Russians are bombing you. Russia's making lots of friends, let me tell you.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:45
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My favorite book is called "Ordinary Men" and it's a psychological case study of Reserve Police Battalion 101 of the German Order Police operating out of Poland during WW2. None of them were fervent Nazis, they were unfit for service in the Wehrmacht; just a bunch of regular blue-collar guys from Hamburg, Germany, most of them married and with kids. Average age of 39. When they were ordered to carry out their first massacre at Jozefow, their commanding officer was openly sobbing as he read the orders to kill all the men, women, and children. He allowed anyone who didn't want to participate to sit it out, and only 12 men took him up. A mere 500 men managed to kill 83,000 Jews during the course of the war, and they were just normal people and killing was just their job. Extensive interviews with the men suggested that peer pressure and careerism played more of a role in their decision to carry out mass murder than any particularly fervent anti-semitism. The men who refused to kill were branded as cowards and socially isolated from their peers for the duration of their deployment. The point is that most people, if put in the right circumstances, are capable of committing horrific atrocities when those atrocities are established as the prevailing social norms. "If this Jewish business is ever avenged on earth, then have mercy on us Germans ... But orders are orders" ~ Major Wilhelm Trapp, commander of Battalion 101 Sergg fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 08:54
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ComradeKane posted:So, to be clear, the Russians are now legitimately also bombing the Islamic State, and their intervention on behalf of Assad is actually working in at least a modest sense? If Russia and Iran commit enough resources the rebels can be beaten. If you drop enough bombs there will eventually be nothing left to oppose you  The TOW flow might be slowing because Saudi Arabia is distracted by Yemen and economic reform efforts in wake of the collapse in oil prices.
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Jan 20, 2016 09:15
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Not strictly ME but more than a little related: An attack by suspected Taliban militants on a university in north-west Pakistan has killed at least 19 people and injured 50. An army official said firing had stopped several hours after the attack but troops were still searching Bacha Khan University campus in Charsadda. Four attackers were killed, the army reported, as the Taliban said four of its suicide attackers were involved. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35359072 Muslim boy, 10, probed for 'terrorist house' spelling error A 10-year-old Muslim boy who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house" during an English lesson at school has been investigated by police. The pupil, who attends a primary school in Lancashire, meant to say he lived in a "terraced house". The boy was interviewed by Lancashire Police at his home the next day and the family laptop was examined. Teachers have been legally obliged to report any suspected extremist behaviour to police since July. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-35354061
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Jan 20, 2016 10:28
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