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Dr. Arbitrary posted:This isn't a criticism of Black people, it's a criticism of White people, we're so lovely that if we wanted to be serious about reparations, we'd have to be careful to make sure that any plan is resilient enough to withstand our persistent shittiness. Even ignoring the "whites recapture most of that money" and "it would never take the form of a blank check" aspects, I wonder what the overall economic effect would be, seeing as it would bring a large number of individuals into the market for luxury items that they were denied by virtue of their relative poverty. It's the ultimate Keynesian government expenditure.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:49
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Even ignoring the "whites recapture most of that money" and "it would never take the form of a blank check" aspects, I wonder what the overall economic effect would be, seeing as it would bring a large number of individuals into the market for luxury items that they were denied by virtue of their relative poverty. It's the ultimate Keynesian government expenditure. $30,000 doesn't buy a lot of luxury items.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:50
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Wouldn't virtually all of reparation money just re-accumulate back to the wealthy? Reparations are good and should be done, but it feels like a token gesture. Worse, doesn't that let everyone off the hook for slavery and jim crow and mass incarceration?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:50
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Like, $30,000 grand is not even a year's supply of diapers and food and rent.  e: whoops, double post
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Jan 20, 2016 03:52
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Is Sarah Palin possessed by the ghost of Yosemite Sam? I can't stop laughing. I'm getting a secondhand nosebleed just watching this. How much amphetamine is she on right now?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:53
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Grant every black person a trust fund that starts at $30,000, and is invested in some manner of reliable investment where half the growth each year is added to the trust fund principal and half goes into their bank account to be spent however.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:55
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Enigma89 posted:$30,000 doesn't buy a lot of luxury items. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing. As someone who makes less than that, that more than doubles my income. But giving away land would be a better form of reparations.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:55
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Killer Mike is awesome in some areas but leans on the "Insane conspiracy person" fence a little to much which uh, might not be great for Sanders if Mike comes under scrutiny. Nebalebadingdong posted:Wouldn't virtually all of reparation money just re-accumulate back to the wealthy? Reparations are good and should be done, but it feels like a token gesture. Worse, doesn't that let everyone off the hook for slavery and jim crow and mass incarceration? Reparations isn't just "give black people more money" it's about making sure black American's aren't eternally stuck in a cycle of poverty by using targeted programs. One of the biggest criticisms of Bernie is his "Rising tide lifts all boats" thing never works like that in reality.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:55
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Rhesus Pieces posted:I'm getting a secondhand nosebleed just watching this. How much amphetamine is she on right now? She's high on having her name shoot back into the headlines on every single site, aka winning the Republican fame/money lottery all over again. Nebalebadingdong posted:Like, $30,000 grand is not even a year's supply of diapers and food and rent. Joementum posted:Having the discussion about that is the point.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:56
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Rand alPaul posted:Lots of people have mixed ancestry, and I'm laughing at the idea of racist whites suddenly finding out they have a black ancestor and demanding cash. lol that alone would make it money well spent
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Jan 20, 2016 03:56
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Venom Snake posted:Killer Mike is awesome in some areas but leans on the "Insane conspiracy person" fence a little to much Such as?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:57
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Joementum posted:Such as? He thinks there is a shadow government that secretly controls everything. Although I guess in recent years he's mellowed out.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:57
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Venom Snake posted:
Is this an indirect criticism of The Great Society?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:58
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Joementum posted:Having the discussion about that is the point. Yes, jeeze, why isn't Sanders jumping on this hot issue! Score one for Coates, he really got him there.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:58
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Venom Snake posted:Reparations isn't just "give black people more money" it's about making sure black American's aren't eternally stuck in a cycle of poverty by using targeted programs. One of the biggest criticisms of Bernie is his "Rising tide lifts all boats" thing never works like that in reality. I understand its not "just give black people money" but I don't see how it will end the cycle of poverty. Even giving people land seems like a non-starter unless you give them developed land. Which sounds kinda awesome but we've ventured even further from "a thing that can actually happen"
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Jan 20, 2016 03:59
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Rand alPaul posted:Having a discussion about who is black and who isn't? About who has suffered and who hasn't.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:59
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The most telling thing for me was what Bernie actually said was what he was getting reamed for initially. Those plans ultimately will overlook black people much like anything that tackles simply poverty instead of focusing directly on the problem.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:00
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fishmech posted:Grant every black person a trust fund that starts at $30,000, and is invested in some manner of reliable investment where half the growth each year is added to the trust fund principal and half goes into their bank account to be spent however. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es
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Jan 20, 2016 04:00
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:Is this an indirect criticism of The Great Society? The Great Society came with a bunch of programs to specially improve the lives of minorities in America. The point I'm getting at is that you need to directly address racism and problems unique to minorities to fix poo poo. Nebalebadingdong posted:I understand its not "just give black people money" but I don't see how it will end the cycle of poverty. Even giving people land seems like a non-starter unless you give them developed land. Which sounds kinda awesome but we've ventured even further from "a thing that can actually happen" Investing more money in education, infrastructure, and community centers at a local level is a good start. Also getting rid of retardly shaped school districts that basically give us segregation 2.0
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Jan 20, 2016 04:02
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The law implementing them can simply forbid those maneuvers.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:04
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blue squares posted:About who has suffered and who hasn't. If only there was a class taught in every level of schooling in the United States that discussed slavery, minorities, white supremacy, racial injustice, civil rights, etc., etc., etc.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:05
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Venom Snake posted:Investing more money in education, infrastructure, and community centers at a local level is a good start. Also getting rid of retardly shaped school districts that basically give us segregation 2.0 Within a few years you would have white families moving out of the new lines to where more white people are and the cycle would just repeat.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:06
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Venom Snake posted:He thinks there is a shadow government that secretly controls everything. Although I guess in recent years he's mellowed out. Yeah but like isn't there and don't they? Eisenhower MIC speech and so on?
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Jan 20, 2016 04:06
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crazy cloud posted:Yeah but like isn't there and don't they? Eisenhower MIC speech and so on? The MIC is anything but shadowy. Also there is good MIC stuff and bad MIC stuff. Good: research, using armed forces to help with disaster relief and so on bad: buying thousands of tanks to sit in a desert and make planes for trillions of dollars that melt in the rain On Terra Firma posted:Within a few years you would have white families moving out of the new lines to where more white people are and the cycle would just repeat. White people don't like living outside of cities anymore really. Suburbs are the new inner city in a lot of places.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:09
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Venom Snake posted:Reparations isn't just "give black people more money" it's about making sure black American's aren't eternally stuck in a cycle of poverty by using targeted programs. One of the biggest criticisms of Bernie is his "Rising tide lifts all boats" thing never works like that in reality. The phrase you're using here has been perverted from its original meaning, and it's a poor description of what Bernie's platform is about in any case. Sanders is after programs which will disproportionately benefit poor people, which has absolutely nothing to do with (and in fact is the complete opposite of) what people usually mean when they say "a rising tide lifts all boats."
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Jan 20, 2016 04:10
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blackguy32 posted:The most telling thing for me was what Bernie actually said was what he was getting reamed for initially. Those plans ultimately will overlook black people much like anything that tackles simply poverty instead of focusing directly on the problem. What did Bernie say?
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Jan 20, 2016 04:15
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Paradoxish posted:The phrase you're using here has been perverted from its original meaning, and it's a poor description of what Bernie's platform is about in any case. Sanders is after programs which will disproportionately benefit poor people, which has absolutely nothing to do with (and in fact is the complete opposite of) what people usually mean when they say "a rising tide lifts all boats." I don't this is going to have the effect that TNH is looking for. In fact, many times things aimed at the poor overlook minorities. He got criticized for this before.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:16
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blackguy32 posted:I don't this is going to have the effect that TNH is looking for. In fact, many times things aimed at the poor overlook minorities. He got criticized for this before. Could you be more specific?
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Jan 20, 2016 04:19
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I think the biggest concern over cash reparations is that the same structures that have been built up over time to oppress black people will be used to take back anything we give. The experience of Native Americans is relevant to any discussion of reparations for racial injustices. In Canada, the federal government is responsible for providing health care, education and various infrastructure and social support to native communities. This duties are defined in both the charter and various treaties, presumably the US has similar arrangements. I believe this framework is similar to reparation proposals that call for the redistribution of money from white communities to black communities for social and economic development (as opposed to just writing people cheques). In practice native wealth and living standards are far below other Canadians, due to a number of factors including pervasive racism but also fundamental limitations in a single federal agency's ability to build communities and manage complex social problems. Honestly though I could never see natives getting even the inadequate level of support they do if the federal govt wasn't legally required to provide it. It would be nice to live in a society where reparations for slavery would have popular support.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:24
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There is no chance that Trump doesn't crush Iowa after today. Branstad dunking on Cruz's oil connections, Trump wholeheartedly backing corn ethanol and the Sarah Palin endorsement which really humiliates Cruz after all the poo poo he said praising her. I'm going to invest in betting on Trump winning Iowa, and I'm telling other people I know to do the same. 7/4 right now!
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Jan 20, 2016 04:43
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Typical Pubbie posted:What did Bernie say? It's in the article. To be more specific, Bernie was preaching about economic opportunity in general as a way to help minorities and then he was pretty much embarrassed at his event for not really focusing at all on black issues and how what he was preaching would do nothing to help black problems. Ta-nahisi briefly talks about it in the article.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:45
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Paradoxish posted:The phrase you're using here has been perverted from its original meaning, and it's a poor description of what Bernie's platform is about in any case. Sanders is after programs which will disproportionately benefit poor people, which has absolutely nothing to do with (and in fact is the complete opposite of) what people usually mean when they say "a rising tide lifts all boats." Programs that are specifically for poor people often get built in such a way minorities have a much harder time taking advantage of them (historically) which is why people are appropriately cautious when the rhetoric of "Why don't black people love me? They are all poor and in need!" rears it's ugly head.
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Jan 20, 2016 04:49
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Venom Snake posted:White people don't like living outside of cities anymore really. Suburbs are the new inner city in a lot of places. Um, what? That isn't true at all in Virginia where I'm at.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:06
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Venom Snake posted:White people don't like living outside of cities anymore really. Suburbs are the new inner city in a lot of places. Hm, yes, good hot take here. White non-hispanic is over-represented in rural America based on roughly all studies ever, though the gap is closing, particularly due to Hispanic-Americans moving to rural areas.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:09
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Don't tell that to Meridian Idaho.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:15
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Venom Snake posted:Programs that are specifically for poor people often get built in such a way minorities have a much harder time taking advantage of them (historically) which is why people are appropriately cautious when the rhetoric of "Why don't black people love me? They are all poor and in need!" rears it's ugly head. Pretty sure it was a post in this thread that argued that the US was close to getting a single payer health care system at one point but Southern Dems linked up with Republicans to crush it because of the possiblity that black people might get health care too. (I couldn't find the post again despite wading through UberChat) 
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Jan 20, 2016 05:20
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Venom Snake posted:Programs that are specifically for poor people often get built in such a way minorities have a much harder time taking advantage of them (historically) which is why people are appropriately cautious when the rhetoric of "Why don't black people love me? They are all poor and in need!" rears it's ugly head. America is racist as gently caress (which is why we're talking about reparations being politically impossible in the first place), so there's nothing about what you're describing that's unique to economic policies. Any program intended to help minorities is going to meet resistance, even if it also helps poor and middle class white people. If it's going to be impossible to design broad economic programs in such a way that they at least benefit minorities equally, why do you think that targeted programs are any more politically feasible?
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Jan 20, 2016 05:24
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On Terra Firma posted:Um, what? That isn't true at all in Virginia where I'm at. Really? Because lately in the D.C. metro area people have been moving closer in as the traffic gets worse. Gentrification is everywere. mlmp08 posted:Hm, yes, good hot take here. I'm not talking about rural america? although it's literally dying.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:24
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Paradoxish posted:America is racist as gently caress (which is why we're talking about reparations being politically impossible in the first place), so there's nothing about what you're describing that's unique to economic policies. Any program intended to help minorities is going to meet resistance, even if it also helps poor and middle class white people. If it's going to be impossible to design broad economic programs in such a way that they at least benefit minorities equally, why do you think that targeted programs are any more politically feasible? But this is the point of the article. Bernie is perfectly willing to call for pie in the sky stuff that has no chance in hell of passing but when it comes to combating white supremacy, all of a sudden he becomes a pragmatist.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:40
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mlmp08 posted:Hm, yes, good hot take here. I see a tiny hint at this in my line of work, though that's kind of specific to the Rockies/West Coast due to my employer's banking footprint. Lots of families moving to rural areas like inland CA (think Visalia/Tulare as opposed to Anaheim or whatever), out in the sandhills in Nebraska, places like that.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:41
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