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SHISHKABOB posted:Dude moff is the funniest title, where the hell did they come up with it? It probably came from "Grand Mufti."
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Jan 21, 2016 00:57
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rear end Catchcum posted:Where is it stated these changes were done as a result of fan reaction? I'm not trying to be argumentative; it just seems weird that George comes off as this no vision comprising guy, especially in regards to the prequels, but then would change major things in his movies, which, according to him, had been planned for years and years, due to fan reaction. There's a lengthy and very good interview with Ahmed Best where he explains it. Basically Jar Jar was always going to have a very diminished role in AotC and not even be in RotS because the story isn't about him or his planet in either movie, but the negative reaction did effect is a bit too. I believe even reading that the brief seconds you see him hanging with Palpatine in RotS actually weren't even to be there, but ended up happening because of how they made him a senator directly in AotC to both get the Clone Wars rolling and get also have a little less screen time. In the Clone Wars cartoon of course though as senator he's in the show prominently with Padme/etc., so it's not like they erased the character from existence. He was going to end up being a bit more of the Wushu flick fool that they were going for in Episode I. That Reddit thing is correct in that respect, the idea is that he's clumsy but just super lucky and precise when he needs to be whether it's the force or whatever when poo poo hits the fan he's in the right place at the right time. I'd compare him heavily to Jet Li's character in Swordsman II: Asia the Invincible or any other drunken character. In general he wouldn't have been a major character in AotC but would have been in more scenes with Palpatine and Padme. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 01:08
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One of the two big problems I have with Episode I is that Jar Jar, whom I actually like if only because he's a nice contrast to everyone else, overshadows Obi-wan. Obi-wan really doesn't actually do much besides kill Darth Maul and pledge to take on Anakin as an apprentice. While I'm not much for speculating about what I think should have happened, I still believe that there were missed opportunities for an Anakin-Obi-wan relationship in Episode I.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:02
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AndyElusive posted:The word Moff originates from the word Muff which is slang for a very hairy bushy vagina Grand oval office Edit: where did the "Moff" title first appear, was it on the action figures? I'm pretty sure it's never said in any of the movies, Leia addresses Tarkin as "Governor". General Dog fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 02:16
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Cnut the Great posted:It probably came from "Grand Mufti." "Toff" was the other suggestion.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:20
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KaptainKrunk posted:One of the two big problems I have with Episode I is that Jar Jar, whom I actually like if only because he's a nice contrast to everyone else, overshadows Obi-wan. Obi-wan really doesn't actually do much besides kill Darth Maul and pledge to take on Anakin as an apprentice. While I'm not much for speculating about what I think should have happened, I still believe that there were missed opportunities for an Anakin-Obi-wan relationship in Episode I. Episode I doesn't worry too much about the Obi-Wan & Anakin relationship because its fundamental structure is radial. It's a sort of prologue that shows us how the central character, Qui-Gon, touches the lives of four others: Jar Jar, Padmé, Anakin, and Obi-Wan. Note that Qui-Gon's still not the protagonist, since the story isn't particularly about him; instead, he's the catalyst who launches the careers of those four characters, each of whom is a protagonist within their own subplot. So each main character's story is mostly defined by their interactions with Qui-Gon. With Jar Jar: Qui-Gon decides that even though you may be a bumbling fool, you're still valuable and worth saving. For Padmé: Qui-Gon proves that you can trust in the power of the Force to guide you through a crisis. To Anakin: Qui-Gon says that you, the forgotten slave boy, are gifted and powerful and can do great things. And to Obi-Wan: Qui-Gon says that you are ready to become a great Jedi, and he shows you that it's okay to act based simply on what you feel is right. There's a little bit of crossover. They all meet each other, of course. Jar Jar gives Padmé hope simply by reminding her of the second-class citizens she has forgotten. Padmé ends up acting as a surrogate mother for Anakin, even in TPM. Obi-Wan meets Anakin and eventually promises to train him. But the overall story is designed to show how Qui-Gon gives the saga its beginning by bringing everyone else together.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:25
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That's actually pretty cool, Zoran. And it makes Qui-Gon being the first to master the spooky jedi ghost trick a lot more meaningful, too, because he literally becomes the Force, the energy binding the universe together.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:54
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KaptainKrunk posted:One of the two big problems I have with Episode I is that Jar Jar, whom I actually like if only because he's a nice contrast to everyone else, overshadows Obi-wan. Obi-wan really doesn't actually do much besides kill Darth Maul and pledge to take on Anakin as an apprentice. While I'm not much for speculating about what I think should have happened, I still believe that there were missed opportunities for an Anakin-Obi-wan relationship in Episode I. Well (and I know this phrase gets thrown around a lot), that was unfortunately kind of the point. Anakin bonds with Qui-Gon and comes to view him as the father he never had, but by the end of the movie Qui-Gon has been killed, and so Anakin gets dumped in the lap of this smarmy younger guy who he doesn't really know and who didn't even want anything to do with Anakin at first. I first saw TPM when I was seven, and so I tended to see things largely from Anakin's perspective. For me watching the movie, it made me feel like my father had just died and left me to be raised by a reluctant older brother who'd lived three states away my entire life and I only ever saw at Christmas and Easter. I think that's how it was supposed to make you feel. And note that in the original draft Lucas wrote for TPM, Obi-Wan was the one Anakin bonded with. The movie started out with Obi-Wan on a solo mission, and Obi-Wan was the one to discover Anakin on Tatooine. Qui-Gon was a more minor character who first showed up on Coruscant. Lucas deliberately re-wrote the story in order to give Obi-Wan's role to Qui-Gon. At the very least, it definitely wasn't an oversight. It was a choice he made. I think it's obvious what happened. The character who discovered and bonded with Anakin in Lucas's original draft was turning out to be the ideal Jedi and the ideal father, just like Old Ben was in Episode IV. There was really no way around it. That was who the character had to be for Episode I's story to work. But Obi-Wan wasn't supposed to be Old Ben yet. He needed to have time to grow into Alec Guinness's character over the course of the prequel trilogy. So Lucas re-wrote the script so that Qui-Gon would discover and bond with Anakin instead. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan would subvert viewer expectations by actually starting out as Anakin's biggest doubter. Then, the fact that by Episode III Obi-Wan would in fact grow to become the one person who had the most faith in Anakin out of all the Jedi--and who still believed in him even when others started to have grave doubts--would be an even more powerful testament to the strength of the bond that had developed between them. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 02:58
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Empress Theonora posted:If they're increasing Rey, Finn, and Poe's roles... what the gently caress was the movie even about beforehand???? The Kylo and Hux Variety Show
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Jan 21, 2016 03:17
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I was never a fan of the Jar Jar character in the PT, but he has made me LOL several times in the Clone Wars cartoon. This one episode in particular, called "Bombad Jedi", I was surprised at how genuinely funny they made him.
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Jan 21, 2016 03:26
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MrMojok posted:I was never a fan of the Jar Jar character in the PT, but he has made me LOL several times in the Clone Wars cartoon. This one episode in particular, called "Bombad Jedi", I was surprised at how genuinely funny they made him. Each season has a low point, but they were never Jar Jar episodes.
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Jan 21, 2016 04:09
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Hmm, just realized every male child born this year will be named Poe. Too bad it won't be the superior name, Hux.
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Jan 21, 2016 04:48
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I have a suspicion Star Wars-y Star Wars names aren't super popular. Luke is a common enough name that if you need to backtrack later you can say it was named after <x>, but once you're naming Leia or Poe you're you are pretty committed. Like those people who named their kids Sephiroth. Granted, given the cultural cache Star Wars holds in western culture at this point its getting to be the equivalent of why there were so many darn Luke's running around in the first place.
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Jan 21, 2016 04:59
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I dunno, I am betting Poe is almost normal enough to crossover.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:01
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Frackie Robinson posted:Grand oval office It's like poetry.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:02
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SHISHKABOB posted:Bongo Bill is a great poster. Thank you.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:13
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Just to throw this out there: if the rewrite ends up making Poe into a canonically gay character as a result of fan reactions, then I'll be glad that Disney considered the votes of the fans.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:21
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It's Always Sunny in Tatooine.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:38
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PBS Newshour posted:Too bad it won't be the superior name, Hux. gently caress Hux, 'cause Hux sucks. Anyways, because I can: cool shots from the Clones movie.      
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Jan 21, 2016 05:44
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I think you mean Hux Sux hahaha but no Hux is cool
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Jan 21, 2016 05:45
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Hux to Tarkin is the obvious comparison to make, and you get that Hux has a lot of illusions about just what he's doing compared to Tarkin.. Tarkin's very casual about destroying Alderaan. "You may fire when ready." He's not trying to impress anybody; it's a very calculated move. And of course it's he who refuses to give the order to evacuate. Hux, on the other hand, strikes directly at the capital of the enemy nation, a show of force and a declaration of war rather than a warning and a punishment for seditious attitudes. He gives a big shouty rally for the inaugural firing, attended only by soldiers who were already brainwashed. And he's the one who seeks permission to evacuate when poo poo is falling apart around him. So we've got a young leader instead of an old one, with an openly hateful relationship rather than a friendly one with a Red Lightsaber Man of equal rank (compare "perhaps Leader Snoke should consider a clone army" with "I told you she would never consciously betray the Rebellion"), motivated by insecurity rather than arrogance, and ostentatiously loyal rather than matter-of-factly talking about having "direct authority." Tarkin only really gets agitated once - "She lied to us!" - and it's based on never having even imagined any of his plans might fail. Hux is at his most animate during his speech, and the most strongly inflected word in it is about how the Republic "lies to the galaxy!" - both followed with an order to execute the liar in question. Not, I think, a coincidence. With Tarkin, it's a personal affront, and he thinks that "us" - the Galaxy - and the Empire are one and the same. With Hux, he makes it very impersonal; he's trying to get his troopers to think "the Galaxy" - us - is represented by the First Order. We don't get the sense he's upset about the Republic denying that they're backing the Resistance, but he still really hates them (because they're his enemy) and will fuel his invective with whatever it is rhetorically convenient to say. The differences between the Empire and the First Order are striking. The biggest difference is that its leader hates the Republic, whereas Palpatine loved it. What this tells us is that the New Republic is, yes, basically the same as the Old.
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Jan 21, 2016 06:23
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The last picture posted is of a dead rat. Perfectly summing up Attack of the Clones.
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Jan 21, 2016 06:24
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Yaws posted:The last picture posted is of a dead rat. Perfectly summing up Attack of the Clones. People are much less impressed than you think by the fact that you don't like a movie.
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Jan 21, 2016 06:39
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I don't mean to distract from Bongo's comparison of Hux with Tarkin, which is new territory for the thread, but I just rewatched The Phantom Menace and had a few thoughts related to the earlier conversation regarding droid personhood. I'm surprised that no one in that conversation mentioned the scene shot from C-3PO's point-of-view in defense of the droids-are-slaves argument. First, the fact that it's shot from 3PO's view seriously undermines the idea that all Star Wars droids are philosophical zombies. There's no Ex Machina-style ambiguity here with respect to mimicry vs. actual machine consciousness, given that the viewer is made to experience the scene from 3PO's perspective. Second, in that scene, Anakin tells 3PO not to worry, because he won't be sold. This is really on the nose. I remain convinced, however, that the battle droids themselves just follow programming, and aren't self-aware. In one example on Naboo, a battledroid stops Qui-Gon and demands to know where he's going. Qui-Gon gives the droid an unanticipated response, so it repeats the question. When Qui-Gon repeats his answer, the droid defaults to "you're under arrest." In a contrasting scene almost immediately after, R2 saves the lives of everyone on board the queen's ship by unexpectedly diverting power to a shield generator, instead of repairing the generator's power source, as he was ordered to do. So, insofar as creativity is an indicator of consciousness, this alone shows us that R2 has it and the battle droids don't. Other, less interesting strikes against the battle droids include the hive control, lock-step battle formations and actions, and so on. I suppose it's possible that individual battle droids would experience something like "locked in" syndrome, forced to witness their bodies taking actions that they have no control over, but the simpler take on their behavior is the one that every battle droid scene in the film seems to suggest: they're simply robots following their programming.
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Jan 21, 2016 07:15
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The Clone Wars does this a lot, the battle droids are upgraded so that they can do stuff like command ships and make observations themselves but still have to immediately snap to and obey whoever their non-droid controller is even while talking about how they're going to die needlessly. There's a bunch of episodes that make it very clear how the droids are people that are enslaved just as the clones are and the show is considered just as canon as the movies.
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Jan 21, 2016 07:32
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Yeah, it's pretty clear that the battle droids are programmed to obey orders, but that doesn't mean they can't have personhood. C-3PO got mindwiped, but that doesn't make his pre-mindwipe or post-mindwipe selves not people. If you operate under the assumption that artificially created soldiers who are programmed to obey orders but demonstrate some amount of free will aren't people, then the clones aren't people either. This is pretty much the central tenet of Attack of the Clones - the good guys are fighting this war the exact same way the bad guys are, but since they (both the good guys and their soldiers) are biologically human/One of the Good Ones, it's okay! The idea that the clones are superior because they're capable of creative thinking and independent thought isn't necessarily wrong, it just has no relation to them being biological clones rather than mechanical copies. They've simply had the buttons which says "always obey orders, forever" set to "off", except for the button which says "kill all the Jedi", which gets pressed in Episode 3. The droid armies, on the other hand, have both "kill all the Jedi" and "always obey orders" buttons firmly taped down, because their leaders are sending them off to fight and die for a cause they don't believe in - I mean, seriously, who would lay down their lives for free trade?
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Jan 21, 2016 07:55
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Bongo Bill posted:Hux to Tarkin is the obvious comparison to make, and you get that Hux has a lot of illusions about just what he's doing compared to Tarkin.. Tarkin's very casual about destroying Alderaan. "You may fire when ready." He's not trying to impress anybody; it's a very calculated move. And of course it's he who refuses to give the order to evacuate. Hux, on the other hand, strikes directly at the capital of the enemy nation, a show of force and a declaration of war rather than a warning and a punishment for seditious attitudes. He gives a big shouty rally for the inaugural firing, attended only by soldiers who were already brainwashed. And he's the one who seeks permission to evacuate when poo poo is falling apart around him. This is a good post-- I really like the ways that, for all that it self-consciously modeled itself on the Empire, the First Order is actually pretty different, and Hux exemplifies that. The Empire as a whole kind of reflected Tarkin's fatal overconfidence, while the First Order feels like it has something to prove.
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Jan 21, 2016 08:14
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Ersatz posted:I remain convinced, however, that the battle droids themselves just follow programming, and aren't self-aware. In one example on Naboo, a battledroid stops Qui-Gon and demands to know where he's going. Qui-Gon gives the droid an unanticipated response, so it repeats the question. When Qui-Gon repeats his answer, the droid defaults to "you're under arrest." that just sounds like normal police activity to me.
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Jan 21, 2016 08:28
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ungulateman posted:The idea that the clones are superior because they're capable of creative thinking and independent thought isn't necessarily wrong, it just has no relation to them being biological clones rather than mechanical copies. They've simply had the buttons which says "always obey orders, forever" set to "off", except for the button which says "kill all the Jedi", which gets pressed in Episode 3. The droid armies, on the other hand, have both "kill all the Jedi" and "always obey orders" buttons firmly taped down, because their leaders are sending them off to fight and die for a cause they don't believe in - I mean, seriously, who would lay down their lives for free trade[/i]? Speaking of the show being topical to the US, even season 1 has an episode where they go to a planet with the same name as Fallujah but spellt slightly differently so that on the surface they can stop some droids but the reality is that Palpatine wants to track down the stuff needed to work a holocron the right way so that he can find a listing the Jedi keep around of every force sensitive child so that he can have them killed because there's a slight chance some of them may possibly be found by a Jedi and grow up to become Jedi maybe. Episode also features a jedi getting tortured to death on screen so that they realize torture doesn't work. The violence in the show is pretty nuts for a kids show. Not just in that characters die in it but because it'll be like some senator gets shot in the back at point blank range, or after that Jedi is tortured to death he gets tossed aside and nudged to confirm that he's dead. Or one where a guy has a corpse just sitting around his apartment for a while so a shapeshifter he hires can take a look at it an imitate it. Like the violence isn't graphic at all but for something that was on on Saturday mornings and weekday afternoons the level of brutality is pretty intense even for the humanoid characters, the droids get it even worse. And the show makes a point to have droid characters (not just the battle droids) that display a lot of personality and then get brutally blown up or dismembered to the smirk or relief of our heroes.
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Jan 21, 2016 08:34
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The Clone Wars is also George at his best, properly filtered through other very skilled human beings who are capable of proper restraint.
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Jan 21, 2016 08:41
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I dunno if 'properly filtered' is the right word for it. Obviously the Great Satan Jorge benefits a lot from working with other skilled and talented people, but that's true of literally every director ever. The fact that it's animation is probably a major factor. Lucas' strength has always been visual storytelling, and animation hypothetically lets him do a lot more visually than even the best CGI. It probably also helps that the characters' more simplistic design means the characters and the VOs both have to emote pretty hard, so the characters seem less bored (which is also helped by the show typically taking place on a battlefield rather than in Mega City One).
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Jan 21, 2016 09:11
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I know we bust each other's balls a lot in this thread but sincerely go see TFA in 35mm if one of the 13 theaters it's playing in the US is near you. Absolutely gorgeous. Finn: "Which puts a real target on my back." Proceeds to get his back sliced the gently caress up. I think R2 is reactivated by the proximity of Luke's lightsaber. Also I don't think Rey is related to Luke at all. Maz says, "Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But...there's someone who still could." Rey is waiting for her family, who Maz says is not coming back, but says Luke could, therefore, Luke is not her family. Explicitly told to us by the film's sage.
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Jan 21, 2016 09:17
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rear end Catchcum posted:I know we bust each other's balls a lot in this thread but sincerely go see TFA in 35mm if one of the 13 theaters it's playing in the US is near you. Absolutely gorgeous. rey is the one who could go back to luke
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Jan 21, 2016 09:18
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Also what the film's sage says might only be true from a certain point of view.
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Jan 21, 2016 09:26
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I'm fairly sure R2 was there when Luke's lightsaber was there the first time (but without Rey). I prefer the "R2 is Force-sensitive, like everything else" interpretation, but I guess if you want to be a gloomy no-fun guy maybe he can pick up people with ~especially high midichlorian counts~ but that seems really at odds with the movie's general ideas of "the Force belongs to everyone, and it's awakening in all sorts of people". See Han casually shooting a guy coming up from behind him without even looking, let alone turning.
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Jan 21, 2016 10:10
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Force sensitive in star wars has a very specific meaning. It means "is capable of learning to use the force". Everything and anything can be manipulated and guided by the force however.
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Jan 21, 2016 11:52
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rear end Catchcum posted:I think R2 is reactivated by the proximity of Luke's lightsaber. Doubtful; unless it took "being in proximity to the light saber two different times" to work.
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Jan 21, 2016 12:11
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the force literally reached out to him and turned him back on
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Jan 21, 2016 12:16
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jivjov posted:Doubtful; unless it took "being in proximity to the light saber two different times" to work. Luke's saber is a vintage model that only has infrared transfer; the base was just deceptively dusty the first time around.
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Jan 21, 2016 12:18
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NecroMonster posted:the force literally reached out to him and turned him back on Well, the official scripted reason is that R2 was booting back up from the moment BB-8 asked him about the map; it just took him hours to do so due to a combination of age and just how long he had been in low-power mode.
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Jan 21, 2016 12:24
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