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In all mans evolution we are finally at the point where we can imagine and create anything we like in video games, we have the fidelity and money to create anything we want to create. The time is now, it has arrived, the shackles we once had have fallen away and our creative minds are free to finally make alien worlds or fantastic unthought of vistas, unparalleled in their other worldly beauty. My friends, we are no longer mere visionaries, we are the crafters of anything we can possibly imagine. *makes a grey corridor*
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Jan 21, 2016 16:05
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For those of you interested in ship sex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3Z0x6_YOw
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Jan 21, 2016 16:06
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Scruffpuff posted:Elite could use a bit more design variety, but I generally agree with the idea of a consistent design, so I can't fault their conservative attitude in that department. The ships in Star Citizen all look like they were designed by different people working in different companies on totally different kinds of games, then all thrown together in the same space. With that in mind I don't see how it's a negative that ship designs are not consistent.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:06
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Iglocska posted:Come on, this looks fantastic: See I look at this and ask myself why the gently caress does a space ship need variable wings, stabilizers and rudders? And even with gimbaled weapons, the ships profile is so big you'll have to be dive bombing other ships at an angle to actually hit them. But thats just me. Im sure SCs "Top Down" design ideology is working somehow. Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 16:07
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Inverness posted:Wait, what? Aren't actual vehicles designed by different people working in different companies? Space ships allow much more freedom of design than cars do too, both in size and shape. Same here, in Elite they do this by having different ship manufacturers have different styles, so that makes sense.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:09
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Iglocska posted:Come on, this looks fantastic: Cao Ni Ma posted:See I look at this and ask myself why the gently caress does a space ship need variable wings, stabilizers and rudders?
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Jan 21, 2016 16:11
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peter gabriel posted:Without being harsh or overly critical Star Citizen is very bland looking and feeling, it' the kind of game that is like Hard Reset, it's OK but nothing there that screams its own identity. Like you see a screenshot of Hard Reset and it'll take you a while to figure out which game it is because it looks so generic, compared to say, I dunno, Borderlands where you know instantly what it is because the creative direction is good and it's really identifiable as being Borderlands. Derek Smart Derek Smart Derek Smart This needs to be in OP. No one has described the current state of SC so well.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:11
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Inverness posted:Wait, what? Aren't actual vehicles designed by different people working in different companies? Space ships allow much more freedom of design than cars do too, both in size and shape. It's not that every ship in Elite looks the same, they don't. There are different manufacturers each with their own distinct style. The important thing is they all look like they come from the same universe. That consistency, among many other problems, is where SC fails.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:13
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alphabettitouretti posted:It's not that every ship in Elite looks the same, they don't. There are different manufacturers each with their own distinct style. The important thing is they all look like they come from the same universe. That consistency, among many other problems, is where SC fails. My problem is I don't understand what sort of consistency of design you're expecting from a civilian market that would have to freedom to make whatever flies and sells.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:15
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Inverness posted:Wait, what? Aren't actual vehicles designed by different people working in different companies? Space ships allow much more freedom of design than cars do too, both in size and shape. That's a good point, and an argument I'd buy if I could be convinced that Roberts' plan all along was to have ships intentionally different, to reflect the styles of different manufacturers, etc. I'd say in his execution, it's more a matter of "just loving draw something you think is cool." That sort of brings up another question. If this were just "Peeps in Space: The Game", there would be no reason ships would have to be consistent. But we're getting sold on a full-scale war, which means it's all military action, not private vehicles, where regardless of manufacturer, you'd see some sort of commonalities in design across all ships. And of course then again, if the plot of this game is that the military is so far stretched that the war has come down to private pilots in their own ships being granted militia status, we've come full-circle where having totally different ships is OK again. So now, we've put far more thought into this than Chris ever has.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:15
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Looks like Matilda's back Funny that he/she shares a name with a folksong from down under, where Sandi is from.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:15
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Cao Ni Ma posted:See I look at this and ask myself why the gently caress does a space ship need variable wings, stabilizers and rudders? And even with gimbaled weapons, the ships profile is so big you'll have to be dive bombing other ships at an angle to actually hit them. "It looks cool", nothing beyond that. Beet Wagon posted:The ships by themselves do look great. Some of them slip into a kind of 'generic sci-fi' style but I think the bigger problem is there's a real lack of cohesiveness in the rest of the game. So so much of it is just "near future sci-fi" and it really drags down the look of some of the more interesting ships. Port Olisar looks like it could have been cut out of any generic space game, and there's no reason for it. They obviously have a talented art team, but for whatever reason chose to go with "tube with spinny rings that we don't need" instead of something that says "We've been to the edge of the galaxy and humanity is thriving in space" and looks unique to the universe. Totally agreed. The environments and places like Port Olisar look absolutely generic and boring. peter gabriel posted:Same here, in Elite they do this by having different ship manufacturers have different styles, so that makes sense. They have the exact same thing in SC.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:16
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fuzzknot posted:I have no idea if Karltilda even saw that post. My guess would be no, otherwise he probably would've harassed/doxxed me as well, but then again, he did quit posting here and left Bootcha alone after that. Except you, right?
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Jan 21, 2016 16:16
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Iglocska posted:Come on, this looks fantastic: Yeah, but that's an airplane. It's kinda not that hard to design a cool one since there are plenty of real life examples. We're taking about spaceships. Where you can let your imagination fly! The homeworld ones are indeed great: colourful, distinctive, with a well designed style, and are clear, unmistakable Spaceships. I mean "planes in space" is a valid design choice. It's also kind of dull. Their non-military designs look more like starships (which are aping a different kind of industrial design) and are more interesting. BTW, the elite designs are gently caress ugly and boring but at least you can see one and immediately say "that lovely space triangle? Has to be elite"
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Jan 21, 2016 16:17
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peter gabriel posted:See to me that looks 'ok' - I mean, for fucks sake this is a Sci Fi game, the clue here is in the 'Fi' bit, you can literally create anything you want here, have ships made of cobwebs with frying pans for wings, in fact why have wings? Just have blobs of shining lights or something, concrete triangles with hamburger engines, raccoon shaped cockpits with vaseline windows and poo poo. Yeah as much as I like the Retaliator it's not super sci-fi. I don't mind the obviously heavily military-inspired ships, because like you said, they look okay and I get the aesthetic. But like looking at something like the 300 series, those are pretty great looking space ships. They don't make sense and there's zero need for the wings and poo poo, but they look fast and cool and then you take one out and fly it through the most visually boring poo poo possible and it loses any sense of originality and specialness.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:17
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alphabettitouretti posted:Why do all their ships have loving stupid pointy bits, that bugs me. Even the loving gun barrels have fins. it's for
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Jan 21, 2016 16:18
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Paladinus posted:Is there a space ship that looks like a giant penis? Do bears poo poo in the woods? trucutru posted:BTW, the elite designs are gently caress ugly and boring but at least you can see one and immediately say "that lovely space triangle? Has to be elite" Yeah, they're actually leaning on a history that dates back nearly 30 years when the best visual fidelity we had was 'lovely space triangle', so I'd at least extend them that. SC is making up a universe and is coming up with 2006 stealth-like technologies with sticky out bits. I mean, it's not like sticky out bits get ablated during planetary landings. Hav fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 16:19
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Scruffpuff posted:Draw some happy little trees. Here have a whale....
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Jan 21, 2016 16:20
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I think they're still pretending that ships will land on atmospheric worlds where aerodynamics will actually matter.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:21
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It looks like /u/matilda2013 has had the suspension lifted. e:f:b:
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Jan 21, 2016 16:21
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Iglocska posted:Seriously, which space game do you prefer when it comes to the ship models? To me SC's ships are by far the best so far when it comes to visuals. As for the blandness in the game in general - I agree and I can't figure out what's causing it, it could be the similar-ish colour scale in all scenes or the horrible blurryness, not sure. But if you take the ships themselves in an isolated environment they look fantastic! Thats because they where designed to look good in the hangar module to drive sales. Form over function. When Valve began developping TF2 they asked and tested to find what was the very first things that a serious 3Dfps player recognized when he saw a target. The answer ? Silouhette. Thats why every TF2 class has a very different outline built in its design (overtime the ludicrious hats kind of damaged the idea but you can still see it). Heavy : Inverted triangle. Medic - Tall and thin Pyro : Oval Demo : 2 stacked circles Ect. With CIG instead of "Will this ship be easily recognizable and look unique in play" we got "Will this look good in the garage ?" aleksendr fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 16:21
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Hav posted:Lowtax + family have been receiving death threats since the first ban, so I wouldn't worry. Also, he owns forums that contain an amount of loving weirdoes on the internet. Aye, fair point, it's just seems like weirdoes are generally more harmless on here than most places. 
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Jan 21, 2016 16:23
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I still like the ships and stations from EVE, each design clearly matches the race it came from and much of that also fits the lore / tendency of each race. EVE has its own issues, but I think they got that part right. Also no random aerodynamic property to their ships either
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Jan 21, 2016 16:23
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trucutru posted:Yeah, but that's an airplane. It's kinda not that hard to design a cool one since there are plenty of real life examples. We're taking about spaceships. Where you can let your imagination fly! The homeworld ones are indeed great: colourful, distinctive, with a well designed style, and are clear, unmistakable Spaceships. The small ships look a lot like airplanes indeed, with the alien derived ships looking completely different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, loads of people like X-wings and Y-wings too. The bigger ships (such as the idris) look more like a space ship. Here are some of the designs at a glance:  Depending on the manufacturer they share a lot of design traits, with Aegis ships looking the most airplane-like (Retaliator, Gladius, Vanguard). I think that the designs are fine and I like the variety between the different brands.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:24
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It's gonna be hilarious if they ever try to implement any sort of physics based flight model like that. Because you know it's not going to be a gradual atmosphere, it's going to be 0-100 once ships cross the threshold and they're going to crash hilariously.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:24
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aleksendr posted:Thats because they where designed to look go in the hangar module to drive sales. Form over function. That is a good point.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:25
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Just archiving this comment here, should Matildakarl decides he wants to post in /r/DerekSmart
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Jan 21, 2016 16:26
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Iglocska posted:They have the exact same thing in SC. Yeah and I think it's a cool thing, no issues with that at all
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Jan 21, 2016 16:26
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Iglocska posted:"It looks cool", nothing beyond that. This is basically 95% of their design ideology in a nutshell and most definitely why they are stuck in engineering hell.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:26
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Samizdata posted:Except you, right? That is my privilege. 
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Jan 21, 2016 16:26
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Cao Ni Ma posted:This is basically 95% of their design ideology in a nutshell and most definitely why they are stuck in engineering hell. Which is perfectly fine as a design ideology for a game. The whole realistic physics thing is useless junk though. I think their game design ideology fails when you look at the game as a whole: - the ship designs scream: "I want to look cool, I want you to have fun with me!" - The environments scream: "I want to join the line-up of grey-brown gritty games!" - The physics scream: "I want to be a serious sim!" - The FPS mechanics scream:" PAAAAAAARP"
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Jan 21, 2016 16:30
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Hav posted:Lowtax + family have been receiving death threats since the first ban, so I wouldn't worry. Also, he owns forums that contain an amount of loving weirdoes on the internet. I like this one. I like the mongoose's expression about 43 seconds in, kind of half "Meh" and half "gently caress it; I'm killing it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdg9gkmWsEA
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Jan 21, 2016 16:30
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aleksendr posted:Thats because they where designed to look go in the hangar module to drive sales. Form over function. Precisely this. There have been no gameplay considerations whatsoever during any phase of the design. It's 100% "does this look good in a screenshot". That is leading to a lot of people, whether they think the designs are cool or not, just feeling that something is off, even if they can't quite put their finger on it. There's a cool little booklet that shipped with the Valve Orange Box about the design of Half-Life 2, where they were working on this poisonous headcrabs that drop you down to 1 tick. They gave those crabs a distinctive chirp sound, and found that players would immediately panic when they heard it, to the degree where they would ignore more immediate dangers just to seek out and destroy that crab. To tie that to Star Citizen, imagine that there was a particular type of ship that for whatever reason is just totally deadly to the type of ship you're currently flying. Maybe it has special weapons to cut through your shields, or perhaps it's just so much more maneuverable you can't get the upper hand. Regardless, there could be a particular sound or silhouette that allows you to immediately identify it and have that same panicked moment - "Oh poo poo! I could die here - I gotta decide how to deal with this right now!" That kind of experience will not exist in Star Citizen. It will be closer to "something's shooting at me, let me see what it is - ok it looks like it might be one of ... no the wing's not quite right, well it could be a" BOOM That's what happens when you forget you're making a game.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:30
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:Aye, fair point, it's just seems like weirdoes are generally more harmless on here than most places. I was a section leader on a couple of forums back in the compuserve days, the fun one being the UFO forum. Because of the nature of the subject, there were conspiracy theorists and that peculiar brand of right wing paranoic that, at the time, was really into the idea that the Oklahoma bombing was a false flag operation by the government. I think I collected something in the order of four death threats and at least ten threats of suits, which was most perplexing because there was no anonymity, but we had at least one regular who would go off his meds and claim that I was working for the Secret Service. We'd throw out a ban, he'd promise to behave and a few months later, I'd have to delete a bunch of threads. Good times. Then AOL bought compuserve and it went to poo poo. What I'm saying is that there are plenty of weirdos, but the ones that act on their threats are thankfully rare because the conditions that wrack them aren't the most conducive to action. Scruffpuff posted:There's a cool little booklet that shipped with the Valve Orange Box about the design of Half-Life 2, where they were working on this poisonous headcrabs that drop you down to 1 tick. They gave those crabs a distinctive chirp sound, and found that players would immediately panic when they heard it, to the degree where they would ignore more immediate dangers just to seek out and destroy that crab. And they throw the first one at you while you're in an old shower block. loving NOPE city. Then Ravenholme is filled with the fuckers. HL2 was great at those moments where you start spamming the crowbar in panic. fuzzknot posted:I like this one. I like the mongoose's expression about 43 seconds in, kind of half "Meh" and half "gently caress it; I'm killing it." There's a Smithsonian one, but the mongoose is 88 seconds in and timecodes don't work for the forums, but we can embed tweets. Yay. Hav fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 16:30
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Let's be honest here, the ships are by far and away the best thing about SC, I think they are dull but it's not the crime of the century. The UI in them is god awful though lol, it's like humans being involved in these things is a total afterthought rather than being their primary objective.  "Hey nice ship Bob, but do you think it's not a great idea to have people kneel down under the ship, click <<USE>> to have a little round door pop open then have them click <<USE>> to be animated up a ladder then click <<USE>> to be animated crawling through the ship to the pilots chair where they click <<USE>> to be animated getting in the seat to be greeted by a pointless UI that covers all their view area?" "people?"
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Jan 21, 2016 16:32
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aleksendr posted:Thats because they where designed to look go in the hangar module to drive sales. Form over function. Works in Elite too, to a point. Iglocska posted:The small ships look a lot like airplanes indeed, with the alien derived ships looking completely different. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, loads of people like X-wings and Y-wings too. The bigger ships (such as the idris) look more like a space ship. I like that Reclaimer best. It looks hefty and like it has some utility, a bit Alien tramp steamer. The larger craft in general seem more interesting. It's all the stupid spaceplanes with their stupid pointy bits where they lose me. They're all so loving generic and boring. You could ask any teenage boy to sketch some sci-fi ships and get that kind of thing. peter gabriel posted:Let's be honest here, the ships are by far and away the best thing about SC, I think they are dull but it's not the crime of the century. Agreed. The ship designs wouldn't put me off playing if there was a functional game to play, but the loving godawful UI is an abomination. Also some of the cockpits are hilariously bad.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:33
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Iglocska posted:Which is perfectly fine as a design ideology for a game. The whole realistic physics thing is useless junk though. There is a world of difference though between something looking cool and it being cool.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:33
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:I think they're still pretending that ships will land on atmospheric worlds where aerodynamics will actually matter. Yeah but even that should be cast aside if/when it starts dictating design. In a game where ships can leap through space at near light speed and have reactive shields and all the other sci-fi bullshit, why not just handwave away the atmospheric flight thing when it starts making all your space ships look like lopsided jet fighters? They already did it with the Aurora anyway. I mean really, even for a game where a lot of the ships we see are going for that kind of near-future military porn sci-fi look, they're still limiting themselves too much. Just say gently caress it and make something that looks cool then paint it green: 
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Jan 21, 2016 16:33
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peter gabriel posted:Let's be honest here, the ships are by far and away the best thing about SC, I think they are dull but it's not the crime of the century. Even that's nothing compared to the crime against humanity that is putting the "use" trigger area of beds so close to something else. Nothing brings out frustration like trying to get into your ship and take off fast only to watch the 20 second animation of your guy crawling into his bed and then the 20 second animation of your guy trying to get up after you hammered your f button bloody.
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Jan 21, 2016 16:35
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alphabettitouretti posted:Agreed. The ship designs wouldn't put me off playing if there was a functional game to play, but the loving godawful UI is an abomination. Also some of the cockpits are hilariously bad. When I approach a new ship to steal it's easy to get excited, then once sat in the pilots seat that evaporates very quickly 
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Jan 21, 2016 16:35
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