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The issue really isn't anyone denying the contours of your hypothetical Bundy/Paiute artifact accord, it's that no one knows why the gently caress anyone would care this much about finding the heroism in what, right now, amounts to a video of a guy rifling through museum artifacts while on-the-spot brainstorming why its not a bad thing. Yes if one of these guys exposed obama as a secret lizardman hellbent on imposing european style shariah law on bible studies it'd be a great thing, well worth praising. But it hasn't happened, and in all likelihood, never will. So how about we just say "yes that would be neat" and pick this topic back up when the heroic militants actually exposes the dark evil core of remote wildlife museum storage and wins the support of the local tribe?
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Jan 21, 2016 19:30
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:Your dp is of a bird, a type of animal known for having a tonne of species doing things specifically to entertain themselves. The rats probably have a reason for chewing wire but you are flat wrong that animals only act to survive. I never said that animals act only to survive, but they don't typically waste energy on actions that have no utility. This is a foundational part of animal behavior.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:30
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Even if rats are chewing all the artifacts up, the rational conclusion to be drawn is that the BLM needs more funding so they can hire someone to make sure that doesn't happen.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:30
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Not sure if the derail about rodent propensity to eat historical artifacts is my favorite, or if it was the one about the dubious ethics of mailing used sex toys to people. This thread is a real emotional rollercoaster, I gotta say.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:32
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They're going to take the artifacts and sell them on ebay or tie them onto wrist bands/necklaces cause they're 1/64th cherokee or some poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:33
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As a Millennial I posted:Even if rats are chewing all the artifacts up, the rational conclusion to be drawn is that the BLM needs more funding so they can hire someone to make sure that doesn't happen. You could probably raise some money by charging full price for a grazing lease.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:34
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Not sure if the derail about rodent propensity to eat historical artifacts is my favorite, or if it was the one about the dubious ethics of mailing used sex toys to people. For quality and quantity, you can't beat the avant garde staging of Waiting For Godot being put on by the people insisting the FBI is doing a superb job as evidenced by the fact that no one, including the governor of the state, knows if they're doing anything at all.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:37
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Lotka Volterra posted:Animals typically don't do things "just because" and that's an incredibly stupid position to take. quote:The distinguishing feature of the rodents is their single pair of continuously growing, razor-sharp incisors.[1] These incisors have thick layers of enamel on the front and little enamel on the back.[2] Because they do not stop growing, the animal must continue to wear them down so that they do not reach and pierce the skull. As the incisors grind against each other, the softer dentine on the rear of the teeth wears away, leaving the sharp enamel edge shaped like the blade of a chisel.[3] Most species have up to 22 teeth with no canines or anterior premolars. There is a gap, or diastema, between the incisors and the cheek teeth in most species. This allows them to suck in their cheeks or lips to shield their mouth and throat from wood shavings and other inedible material, discarding this waste from the sides of their mouth.[4] Chinchillas and guinea pigs have a high fiber diet; their molars have no roots and grow continuously like their incisors.[5] Rats chew up inedible stuff because they have rear end in a top hat teeth that that have to constantly wear down otherwise it'll grow back into their skull and kill them. Yes, plastic is on the list of stuff a rat will chew through because that list includes practically everything. Leaving anything even remotely valuable in a rat's den is asking for it to be destroyed.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:42
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Cool, rodents typically wear their teeth down through normal use eating either tough plant material or when chewing through material for nests. The whole point is that they're not going to go destroy the artifacts unless there is a real reason, and the presence of a nest or droppings in the same room does not mean the artifacts are in imminent danger, especially if they're out of the way. If there was a real danger, you'd think either the biologists that work there or, you know, the Paiute would have done something about it. I'm not saying it's optimal, but the theatrics on the part of the militia are exactly that: theatrics meant to make them look good.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:47
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Even if the Rats were packing UZIs on a mission from God to destroy poop and Native American cultural items it wouldn't matter. They would have found the problem when they first opened the refuge and dealt with it back then because losing your research to rats kind of sucks and fucks up your funding. Not wait until someone breaks into your place so they can graciously point these out to. Now shut up about the drat rats.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:53
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Next they'll remodel the kitchen and put in a new addition. Stand up bros.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:53
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A good laugh for us all! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOB3lkUUlVE Before I get banned for posting one of these loving things: https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/posts/948121281931347
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Jan 21, 2016 19:54
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Are
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Jan 21, 2016 20:03
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Jan 21, 2016 20:03
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If anyone's wondering, here's an in-depth article on what the Paiute think of the occupiers: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/01/19/oregon-militia-nuts-hold-paiute-history-artifacts-hostage-163116
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Jan 21, 2016 20:03
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Lead out in cuffs posted:If anyone's wondering, here's an in-depth article on what the Paiute think of the occupiers: That's from before they posted the video. In the comments is a prelude to that video: quote:PLEASE BE ADVISED : I am a reporter, and a liberty activist. I am embedded at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. Please be advised respectfully, that the museum that is located at the refuge is off limits to protesters. I am engaged to a Native American woman, and my mentor was Bob Redfeather of Vineland NJ. I am a friend to the Native American people. I want to take this time to not only tell you that your sacred artifacts are safe and secure, but that I personally discovered in the basement of one of the refuge buildings, what appears to be not only Paleo era artifacts, but projectile points, skinners, etc. Now comes the part where you should be angry. They were located in a dirty basement on shelves in boxes where mice had made nests in, and defecated in. Dates going back in discovery into the 80's. They were untouched and secured. Photographed and as I called my fiancé and asked her how do we be as respectful as possible to let the Honorable Paiute people get them back .......and I will defer to her advice. We will say a prayer to Our Creator......and we will remove the filth that they were laying in after we have fully recorded them. They are primarily in plastic bags, so the actual dirt does not appear to have touched them. It is my intention to do so and to advise Ammon that I believe after this they should be offered to the Paiute people as a token of our friendship, our respect, and our commitment to unite in a common cause which is to place control of these matters unto local people. Only when we have local Constitutional respect, can we hold our local politicians and representatives accountable. Please know that we are not your enemy, we are not insane militants.....and we absolutely WILL NOT desecrate your cultural historical artifacts. Any report of any such thing is not only untrue, but are bald faced lies that we do not know the source of. Respectfully Thomas Lacovara-Stewart RTR TRUTH MEDIA ResurrectTheRepublic / DirtyUncleSam TRUTH Radio Broadcast Republic Broadcasting Network ( RBN ) So even the nutjob "reporter and liberty activist" admits that "the actual dirt does not appear to have touched them." Case closed, everyone can shut up about hypothetical rat damage!
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Jan 21, 2016 20:06
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Lead out in cuffs posted:If anyone's wondering, here's an in-depth article on what the Paiute think of the occupiers: "The tribe is demanding federal action under both the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 and a "protection against bad men” provision in the treaty the tribe signed with the United States in 1868." I kind of want to read that treaty.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:06
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Lead out in cuffs posted:If anyone's wondering, here's an in-depth article on what the Paiute think of the occupiers: A lovely excerpt from that article, relevant to this ridiculous derail about gosh maybe the militants totally suddenly care about the Paiute artifacts despite just saying they don't really give a poo poo about their culture: quote:Bundy supporters have damaged Native American archaeological sites before, most notably, when they drove ATVs through a canyon trail in Utah in protest of protected federal lands trampling the ruins of homes belonging to the ancient Puebloans. Also, the Southern Paiute tribes in Nevada have accused the Bundy family of defacing ancient Paiute petroglyphs in Gold Butte. Incidentally, Southern Paiute community members held a rally last week in Las Vegas in support of the Burns Paiute tribe. I for one definitely trust these guys to genuinely have the best interests of Native American artifacts in mind.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:07
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quote:They were untouched and secured. Photographed and as I called my fiancé and asked her how do we be as respectful as possible to let the Honorable Paiute people get them back .......and I will defer to her advice. We will say a prayer to Our Creator......and we will remove the filth that they were laying in after we have fully recorded them. They are primarily in plastic bags, so the actual dirt does not appear to have touched them. It is my intention to do so and to advise Ammon that I believe after this they should be offered to the Paiute people as a token of our friendship, our respect, and our commitment to unite in a common cause which is to place control of these matters unto local people. Wait, they are bagging poop/dirt and sending it out as a gesture of goodwill and friendship. They have crossed the line and we can clearly send used sex toys with faecal matter on them.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:16
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Aren't they stored there already with permission from the tribe? The gesture of goodwill sounds a lot like, "here take your poo poo back, we feel the government is wasting our money acting as caretakers to it" edit - also, of course, there's the little problem that their end game here is to bulldoze the entire reserve and turn it into private cattle grazing land Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 20:21
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Beware of white men bearing gifts that belonged to you in the first place.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:26
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Regarding the question earlier whether the Paiute can sue the occupiers for damage to their artifacts, I am not aware of a specific private cause of action. There might be one, I don't practice Native law, who knows. The best I can come up with is archaeological resources originally obtained from Indian lands, which some of the artifacts in the Malheur facility may be, remain the property of the Indian tribe from whose land they were obtained. There may be a common law cause of action arising under property law for damage, interference with use, etc. If there is a contract between the tribe and the federal agency, it is possible there could be a theory for tortious interference with a contract. Just spitballing here, the sum total of my interaction with property law was my 1L property course. However, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act does provide substantial criminal and civil penalties for damage to artifacts. ARPA provides for criminal and civil penalties for excavation, removal, damage, or other alteration or defacing of archaeological resources. Criminal penalties include a year in jail and $10,000 fine for a first violation, and five years / $100,000 for second and subsequent. Oh, the Bundy's have done this poo poo before? Cool, add another felony to the pile. Civil penalties cover the cost of restoration on a first violation, and double the cost of restoration for second and subsequent violations. Damaged include assessment of resources to determine their condition after prohibited actions are done to them. So, multiply the man hours to catalogue everything in that storage room by the staff's pay rate. In addition, vehicles used to facilitate prohibited activities are subject to forfeiture. ARPA has teeth.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:47
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Clearly we need to get the MYTHBUSTERS on this ASAP. No other evidence will suffice. Also we can test if the plastic is nutritious enough to sustain a mouse, or if they will resort to cannibalism e^ I cant wait for the "Feds Seize entire-Bundy-Ranch-for-owed-fines standoff" that happens in a couple of years Setset fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 21:07
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MariusLecter posted:Beware of white men bearing gifts that belonged to you in the first place. New thread title?
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Jan 21, 2016 21:09
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Maybe they remembered a few Paiutes were on the Mormon side in the Mountain Meadows massacre and are trying to rekindle that alliance?
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Jan 21, 2016 21:09
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As a Millennial I posted:That's from before they posted the video. In the comments is a prelude to that video: "I'm engaged to a Native American" is right up there with "I have a bunch of black friends!" in stupid excuses for disrespecting someone's culture.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:13
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Funny how such a deep relationship with native culture drives him to care so very much about remote museum archive upkeep and what a different tribes alleged member thinks is the proper process for blessing and molesting Paiute artifacts...but not so much about Ammon Bundy handwaving away some pretty key questions about the actual ownership of the land by saying, in essence, "gently caress them, they're old news".
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Jan 21, 2016 21:18
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Lotka Volterra posted:"I'm engaged to a Native American" is right up there with "I have a bunch of black friends!" in stupid excuses for disrespecting someone's culture. Don't forget the Education of Little Tree guy. They'll go full bore I'm actually an Native American.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:22
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Oh but hey now that we know dialing up ancient continental relatives' current kin and asking how we should handle poo poo is one of the legal pillars of Bundyism maybe we can have the FBI call Germany for advice on how to handle uppity racists with guns who yearn for simpler times.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:22
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https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/690267793606860801 https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/690268138772914176 https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/690268949611548674 It sure must feel nice to be a wanted man who can walk right up to FBI agents without getting arrested. Also: https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/690268580168892416
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Jan 21, 2016 21:37
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That's a weird thing to bet on. Hey guys ya think the Feds'll send one of them Musselmen??
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Jan 21, 2016 21:42
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https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/690269741093511168 lol
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Jan 21, 2016 21:44
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Raw Story just posted a story about the fish and wildlife officials who had to deal with the Hammonds. Worth a read but an interesting aside: they say the entire fish and wildlife service is under a gag order regarding the situation because of the FBI. Sooooo there's yet another part of the govt the FBI has done more to inconvenience than armed militants occupying a fed facility.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:45
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Lotka Volterra posted:"I'm engaged to a Native American" is right up there with "I have a bunch of black friends!" in stupid excuses for disrespecting someone's culture. Excuse me while I pray to Our Creator, who is a dignified Indian with a single tear rolling down his cheek.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:46
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ecureuilmatrix posted:That's a weird thing to bet on. Hey guys ya think the Feds'll send one of them Musselmen?? The LDS are mormons
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Jan 21, 2016 21:46
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Raw Story just posted a story about the fish and wildlife officials who had to deal with the Hammonds. Worth a read but an interesting aside: they say the entire fish and wildlife service is under a gag order regarding the situation because of the FBI. That's relatively common. Parks I have worked in have had incidents less serious than this and memos have gone out telling us to not talk to anyone about it. Basically if we're going to be in the news over something contentious, the word goes out to shut the gently caress up real fast.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:47
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Are mormons allowed to make bets???
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Jan 21, 2016 21:48
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This guy's feed has the most detail, but none of it will surprise you if you've been paying attention. Ammond kindly let the FBI know that the locals love him and he won't be leaving his peaceful protest until the Hammonds are free and the federal lands are returned to We The People. And if anybody gets violent, it's the FBI's fault.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:52
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Are mormons allowed to make bets??? Only for $10,000 or more.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:53
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ha
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Jan 21, 2016 21:59
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