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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:The more money you make and then immediately lose, the more likely you are to learn your lesson....I hope. Doesn't that usually lead to people* going 'poo poo, if only I'd played it a LITTLE bit better I'd be walking away with a fortune'? * I'm thinking mostly of compulsive gamblers here
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Jan 21, 2016 04:23
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Krispy Kareem posted:Oh yeah...I guess that wouldn't matter then. There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who have never lost money in the stock market, and this guy http://www.marketwatch.com/story/help-my-short-position-got-crushed-and-now-i-owe-e-trade-10644556-2015-11-19
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Jan 21, 2016 04:32
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Pureauthor posted:Doesn't that usually lead to people* going 'poo poo, if only I'd played it a LITTLE bit better I'd be walking away with a fortune'? I'll give you sometimes but I don't know about "usually" - maybe it's optimistic of me. Like I'd think the guy who loses a few fingers is less likely to go motorcycling again than the guy who only gets scratched up, and maybe the same goes for stock picking.
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Jan 21, 2016 05:34
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Devian666 posted:BWM: Financial Domination Edition. That Stevo guy is such a sad case 
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Jan 21, 2016 06:02
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Guest2553 posted:
It's just an acting job is the way to view it. Of course trying to do anything like that would be mentally taxing. If you are genuinely interested you could investigate through a fetish community. At worst you could gage interest and get comedy responses. pig slut lisa posted:That Stevo guy is such a sad case His issues are rather serious given that his family won't talk to him. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 06:05
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I wonder a) what the market is like for male findoms, and 2) how much of my soul I'd have to trade to make it happen. It's pretty awesome with money if you're on the other side of that particular fence.
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's all unrealized value so it's basically no different. I think the point is that the second person decides he's good at the stock market and ends putting more money into the market.
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Jan 21, 2016 06:31
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'll give you sometimes but I don't know about "usually" - maybe it's optimistic of me. Like I'd think the guy who loses a few fingers is less likely to go motorcycling again than the guy who only gets scratched up, and maybe the same goes for stock picking. People are a lot worse at internalizing the loss of numbers on a screen than digits on a hand. I mean, fingers ain't coming back. But money? The next jackpot could be right around the corner, I was just unlucky last time!
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Jan 21, 2016 13:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:It's all unrealized value so it's basically no different. Not really the point. The people who win at first think they are the second coming of Warren Buffet and typically put much more money on the line just in time to lose big. If you lose on your first hot stock pick hopefully you learn your lesson. Imagine if E-trade guy had $1000 in his margin account instead of $35000 before opening that really bad position. He'd still be hurting but not -$100k.
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Jan 21, 2016 14:58
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antiga posted:Not really the point. The people who win at first think they are the second coming of Warren Buffet and typically put much more money on the line just in time to lose big. If you lose on your first hot stock pick hopefully you learn your lesson. The really funny thing is if he had never had a forced margin call it would have been a very profitable short as of today
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Jan 21, 2016 16:11
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NZ BWM arrested for defaulting on student loan payments. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/76142242/student-loan-defaulter-arrested-while-trying-to-leave-new-zealand
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Jan 21, 2016 20:05
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Someone should have told him that when people say "you should just flee the country with that much debt!", they're (hopefully) joking.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:14
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Devian666 posted:NZ BWM arrested for defaulting on student loan payments. Student loan default is now a semi-criminal matter involving the possibility of arrest and loss of civil liberties in a developed nation, what a loving world we live in
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Jan 21, 2016 20:32
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From the article, it sounds like he might be a guy who can pay and has just chosen not to. That puts the arrest in a different perspective in my mind. It's not like they arrested some goony 300 pound cheetoh eating manchild from his parents' basement while he was playing Starcraft.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:50
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Nail Rat posted:That puts the arrest in a different perspective in my mind. Why?
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Jan 21, 2016 21:09
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Subjunctive posted:Why? Why not? Do you actually believe you should be able to just decide not to pay and there's no consequences? Inability to pay is one thing, but it sounds like he just decided not to pay after leaving the country. Who foots that bill? It's $20,000 and it's been growing since 2004, so it probably wasn't even all that much to begin with, he's just a dick. If you can just not pay and there's no consequences, then everyone who ever pays is a fool. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 21:26
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It's worth noting its very much a last resort option and this is the first ever time it's been used. Seems like passport confiscation would work too.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:27
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If he's capable of paying and just hasn't bothered, can't they just garnish his wages or seize money from his bank account or something? edit: oh right, living overseas. Although if this becomes more common I wouldn't be surprised to see some countries cooperating on wage garnishment.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:32
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Subjunctive posted:Why? Because people who intentionally defraud social services raise the costs to everyone.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:35
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Nail Rat posted:Why not? Do you actually believe you should be able to just decide not to pay and there's no consequences? Inability to pay is one thing, but it sounds like he just decided not to pay after leaving the country. Who foots that bill? It's $20,000 and it's been growing since 2004, so it probably wasn't even all that much to begin with, he's just a dick. I think there should be the same consequences whether you choose not to pay or can't pay, abstractly. The terms of the loan aren't "try to repay", they are "repay". If he goes and spends his money on powerball tickets, I don't think that should get him out of the consequences even though he now can't pay. The lending bank foots that bill, or whoever insures it if that happens. It's a bad debt, just like if he goes bankrupt.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:37
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Nail Rat posted:Why not? Do you actually believe you should be able to just decide not to pay and there's no consequences? Inability to pay is one thing, but it sounds like he just decided not to pay after leaving the country. Who foots that bill? It's $20,000 and it's been growing since 2004, so it probably wasn't even all that much to begin with, he's just a dick. There are civil courts to handle debt and non repayment of debt is a risk that every lender accepts when they loan money. There are definitely consequences to not repaying loans short of arrest, including judgements and negative credit reporting. This guy may be a bad egg but the slope of arresting debtors or confiscating their documents is very slippery.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:41
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Subjunctive posted:I think there should be the same consequences whether you choose not to pay or can't pay, abstractly. The terms of the loan aren't "try to repay", they are "repay". If he goes and spends his money on powerball tickets, I don't think that should get him out of the consequences even though he now can't pay. So being that he moved out of the country, exactly what are the consequences for him in your mind? They're not putting him in prison. They detained him so that they can enforce their penalties or measures - none of the listed ones were prison time. He posted bail immediately. quote:There are civil courts to handle debt and non repayment of debt is a risk that every lender accepts when they loan money. There are definitely consequences to not repaying loans short of arrest, including judgements and negative credit reporting. This guy may be a bad egg but the slope of arresting debtors or confiscating their documents is very slippery. Those methods don't work when the guy doesn't live in the country and hasn't in over a decade. Also if you read the documents, this is being used only in the case of less than two dozen people who don't live in the country, and it was announced like a year before this happened. They pretty much gave warning that if you're not going to pay, you better not come back and think you won't have to answer in some way. In the absence of a policy like this, just moving to another country is a perfectly viable way to get away from all debt without any consequences to credit, etc, which is what this guy had done. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 21:41
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Nail Rat posted:So being that he moved out of the country, exactly what are the consequences for him in your mind? Literally none? My point is that the consequences should be the same whether he's choosing not to pay or he can't pay (by transferring all his assets to a friend, f.e.). That's why I asked why you felt it mattered that he was able to pay. I am not arguing, and have not argued, that there should be no consequences for failure to repay. Please re-read my posts. I think that in general people who relocate out of the country do not face consequences for debts they abandon, until and unless they return to the country in question or do business there. I'm not really that into the portability of civil judgments and liens and such, though, so maybe things get tied together. I don't think that defending against people emigrating to avoid 5 figures of debt is worth bringing back debtor's prison, generally, but again that's independent of ability to pay.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:47
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It's the first arrest so they will make an example of him. Given that he can afford plane tickets he could easily have made a payment. Being only $20k of student loan it's not impossible. IRD would have selected him so that there are no mitigating circumstances. For example if they arrested one of my friends who owes almost $80k and doesn't earn enough overseas to even pay the interest on that amount it wouldn't look good. Also she's tried to negotiate the amount down and succeeded but they never deducted the agreed amount. His case versus her case would be worlds apart in public opinion. This case will have sufficient public support, my friend's case (if she were to be arrested at the airport) would be a political embarrassment for IRD. That said I'd find it hilarious if the case goes badly.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:49
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Keep in mind student loans are given by the government here in nz, so it's not quite debtors prison for private loans.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:52
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Lord Booga posted:Keep in mind student loans are given by the government here in nz, so it's not quite debtors prison for private loans. Oh, that's interesting. Does the law in question distinguish between debts owed to private entities and public ones?
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Jan 21, 2016 22:01
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Subjunctive posted:That's why I asked why you felt it mattered that he was able to pay. Threatening to put someone who is absolutely dead broke with no means to pay in prison is unlikely to result in the outcome you want, which is the loan paid off. Threatening someone who has means and simply decided he didn't care since he moved out of the country has a higher chance of success. So to answer your question, pragmatism.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:03
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Putting people in prison almost never remedies the offense that caused them to be imprisoned. It's a deterrent as much as anything else.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:08
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Its literally only for govt student loans (there are no private student loans) and only in extreme cases. He's also not going to jail the measure is mostly to stop him skipping the country (again) and force him to show up to court to face his debts. But no do continue with debtor prison outrage. Saros fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 22:09
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Saros posted:But no do continue with debtor prison outrage. I must have missed the thread with the outrage. Link it?
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Jan 21, 2016 22:19
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Saros posted:Its literally only for govt student loans (there are no private student loans) and only in extreme cases. He's also not going to jail the measure is mostly to stop him skipping the country (again) and force him to show up to court to face his debts. If he didn't post bail he would definitely still be in jail, that is how jail works
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Jan 21, 2016 22:51
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http://www.walb.com/story/31020589/recent-lottery-winner-killed-in-home-invasion?sf19395422=1 VV: Maybe it belongs in the newbie thread. But another example of a lottery winner whose life wasn't miraculously made better by winning. Moneyball fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 00:34
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Moneyball posted:http://www.walb.com/story/31020589/recent-lottery-winner-killed-in-home-invasion?sf19395422=1 quote:Friends of Burch said that he had recently used some of his winnings to buy Christmas presents for people in need.
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Jan 22, 2016 00:38
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Guest2553 posted:Quoted for posterity. I think they were more implying they are investing long term for retirement, hence never realizing any losses.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:11
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It looks like the student loan defaulter was the nephew of the Cook Islands Prime Minister. The police released is passport after he borrowed money from his family so he could pay $5000. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/76149231/student-loan-defaulter-says-its-the-worst-experience-of-his-life.html quote:He said as the head of the maths department at Rarotonga's national college he was only paid a $30,000 salary and up until 2010 he had been under the repayments threshold. So he has been over the payments threshold for 5 years.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:28
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Saros posted:Its literally only for govt student loans (there are no private student loans) and only in extreme cases. He's also not going to jail the measure is mostly to stop him skipping the country (again) and force him to show up to court to face his debts. He already went to jail. Thats what you pay bail to get out of.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:32
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I know a kiwi lady who keeps getting harrassed by the NZ government over her student loans despite having 0 capacity to pay it back. They keep telling her she needs to get on it, but you can't budget what you don't have. I knew someone who tried to argue that if you don't graduate you shouldn't have to pay off your HECS debt (Aussie government issued student loans). If this was the case, the requirements to get into uni and get HECS would be purely based on how likely you were to graduate and pay it back, which is less than ideal. Edit: comedy answer is to block people from leaving the country if they have student loans. You can afford a holiday? You can afford to pay off your debt! froglet fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 04:06
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No, the solution is to abolish tuition and stop making education a commercial transaction.
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Jan 22, 2016 04:44
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Subjunctive posted:No, the solution is to abolish tuition and stop making education a commercial transaction. Commie. (I completely agree with you)
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Jan 22, 2016 04:50
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So the 2016 candidates have the following proposals: Bernie Sanders: Free public college, paid for by taxing Wall Street transactions Hillary Clinton: "Free" public college, paid for by removing tax deductions for the wealthy, and establishing a system where Federal grants are given to the states (but they're only given to students working 10 hours a week to help defer the tuition cost) - also, families would be expected to make a contribution towards the tuition as well depending on their income
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Jan 22, 2016 05:21
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EugeneJ posted:So the 2016 candidates have the following proposals: Hey, I am all for Sander's proposals, but there's the Overton window to contend with. As clumsy and not very good as Clinton's plan sounds, maybe it has a higher chance of working. I mean, I can totally see Wall Street cutting their nose to hurt the country if a "communist" wins, only to get him out. Just my two cents though. Edit: wait, maybe you are in the wrong thread? I think D&D is up the stairs and to the right. Just follow the screams.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:51
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