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Entropic posted:Who is it that's actually in favour of the reserve list at this point? Is it the east coast Vintage community (all eight of them)? Nobody in the vintage community is in favor of it.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:00
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JerryLee posted:There have been one or two people in here who unjokingly defended the reserved list on the basis that they didn't want their "investment" to be revealed for the fairy gold that it was (my words rather than theirs, obviously). Excuse me but Fairy Gold should be reserved for all of the useless Secluded Glens spec'd I got yelled at for making fun of
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Jan 29, 2016 03:00
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rabidsquid posted:Excuse me but Fairy Gold should be reserved for all of the useless Secluded Glens spec'd I got yelled at for making fun of Name and shame. Lets all laugh at the speculators together friend.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:01
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I don't remember because I don't keep track of that sort of thing but I might accidentally provoke them into "well actually,"-ing in to correct me about the details
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Jan 29, 2016 03:03
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JerryLee posted:There have been one or two people in here who unjokingly defended the reserved list on the basis that they didn't want their "investment" to be revealed for the fairy gold that it was (my words rather than theirs, obviously). But if the RL is abolished it would probably make selling these cards easier... Yeah but there's an arguement that the conditions which led WotC to make the Reserved List promise in the early 90s are no longer a concern. I think that if they abolished it and somehow that went to court, Hasbro would easily win the case, if it's not dismissed under the fact that it should have been considered a corporate policy by any parties who stand to lose money from the RL being removed.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:03
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Olothreutes posted:Hasbro's legal department. Yup. The reason, beyond some hollow bullcrap of "honoring their word", is that there will absolutely be at least one person, and probably many, who will be deluded and angry enough to bring this to court. They apparently don't think it's worth the legal fees, and they're happier if everyone's playing standard than if they're playing legacy, anyway.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:05
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Lightning Lord posted:Hmm, I was under the impression (I probably read an article I can't remember now somewhere) that game stores like Star City are concerned that if the RL is abolished, their stock would drop in value, like the reaction to Chronicles. If that's not the case, that makes WotC's stance even dumber. Star City had an article years ago about meetings WOTC took with big stores, big collectors etc. and they (SCG) said they were in favor of abolishing the RL. They recently reiterated on reddit they're still all for it. It has to be some crazy gently caress like Dan Bock who owns that 9.5 graded Lotus and other crazy high end poo poo who are screaming. Nobody who is willing to sleeve up a Black Lotus in a 60 card deck or a cube things the RL is a good thing.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:06
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GeneX posted:Yup. The reason, beyond some hollow bullcrap of "honoring their word", is that there will absolutely be at least one person, and probably many, who will be deluded and angry enough to bring this to court. I really do think the legal fees Wizbro would pay to get this laughed out of court would amount to less than they'd make off Vintage Masters, but yeah they're almost 100% focused on standard anyway.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:07
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Lightning Lord posted:Yeah but there's an arguement that the conditions which led WotC to make the Reserved List promise in the early 90s are no longer a concern. I think that if they abolished it and somehow that went to court, Hasbro would easily win the case, if it's not dismissed under the fact that it should have been considered a corporate policy by any parties who stand to lose money from the RL being removed. I don't think that it matters if the conditions are no longer a concern. A promise was made (the reserve list) and some people have made financial decisions based on that promise. If they renege on the promise and it costs these people money there is a case, however flimsy it is. I mean you'd have to be able to prove when/how much you bought a card for in order to determine market price and how much you are out and it's really a nightmare to actually consider it in any real sense, but lawyers aren't interested in how bad a case is if they can simply avoid litigation at all. I think the reserve list is dumb. But I can see why in a society that will sue over coffee being too hot they won't risk it over some cardboard. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 03:09
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I strongly get the impression that wotc specifically don't want to abolish it and the legal concerns are just a nice excuse, like my girlfriend saying she would love to have soda but it's too close to bed time. We both know it's not too close to bed time.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:10
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GeneX posted:Yup. The reason, beyond some hollow bullcrap of "honoring their word", is that there will absolutely be at least one person, and probably many, who will be deluded and angry enough to bring this to court. The lesson out of this is don't touch standard.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:14
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jassi007 posted:Star City had an article years ago about meetings WOTC took with big stores, big collectors etc. and they (SCG) said they were in favor of abolishing the RL. They recently reiterated on reddit they're still all for it. It has to be some crazy gently caress like Dan Bock who owns that 9.5 graded Lotus and other crazy high end poo poo who are screaming. Nobody who is willing to sleeve up a Black Lotus in a 60 card deck or a cube things the RL is a good thing. Good to know. Olothreutes posted:I don't think that it matters if the conditions are no longer a concern. A promise was made (the reserve list) and some people have made financial decisions based on that promise. If they renege on the promise and it costs these people money there is a case, however flimsy it is. I mean you'd have to be able to prove when/how much you bought a card for in order to determine market price and how much you are out and it's really a nightmare to actually consider it in any real sense, but lawyers aren't interested in how bad a case is if they can simply avoid litigation at all. I imagine if Hasbro's lawyers think they can win this case easily, which they probably could, they would advise that it's worth the minor risk of nuisance lawsuits if WotC wanted to reprint the Power 9 at common. Have you researched that case at all? The coffee was hot to a point where it seared human flesh badly, and the lawsuit was only for medical expenses. McDonald's even admitted they were heating their coffee to a near nuclear level.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:18
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Olothreutes posted:
Don't use the McDonald's coffee case as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, because it wasn't.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:21
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Judges really don't like to precede before flimsy cases either tbh
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Jan 29, 2016 03:21
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Cactrot posted:Don't use the McDonald's coffee case as an example of a frivolous lawsuits, because it wasn't.  Instead use the case where the guy broke into someone's house, fell down some stairs, and broke his leg. Because he won that lawsuit.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:22
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TheKingofSprings posted:The lesson out of this is don't touch standard. 4c rally is actually a legitimately fun deck to play, as is esper dragons infinite value is fun, and flat counterspell does wonders for making a control deck feel powerful
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Jan 29, 2016 03:24
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I have only ever sat in on civil court a few times and every case felt pretty inane to me but I am not sure you guys understand how infrequent these frivolous lawsuits make it far or for big money
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Jan 29, 2016 03:24
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Judge chat: I , and other judges I know, do this because we love this game. It's stupid and lame to care about things on the Internet, but I do love Magic. I teach people to play, I help connect players, and I want them to have a good time and enjoy themselves. I judge because I like to give back to the community. I do it to make players feel welcomed, especially players who might not normally sit down at an FNM or GP. With a judge there they know someone's looking out for them. There are problems with WOTC, there are problems with the community, and there are problems with the judge program, but for all its faults I can tell you most judges do it because they love Magic and want it to succeed. That's why the recent events were so heartbreaking. It really felt like a betrayal. I like being compensated not because I can make a living judging, which you pretty much have to be L3+ to even attempt, but because they allow me to judge more. My trips to GPs two thousand miles away are financed by my comp, and sometimes I still lose money. Being an L2 has made it a lot easier to travel, since I get comped $2-300 a day instead of $50-100. Judging is fun. It really is. I love helping people. I love interacting with players. When I fail a player it bothers me-- at Pittsburgh a player came up to me after her Commander pod finished and said that she couldn't find her deckbox with $1000 of Grixis Twin in it, and despite trying for more than an hour I couldn't help her. Judges may be masochists for putting up with all this poo poo, but we do it for a reason.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:24
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For GP's the player meeting starts at the same time (9am) as the GP right? And if you preregistered you don't need to be there on friday, correct? Sorry for using this thread as my personal FAQ, it's my first GP and I really don't want to accidentally miss the whole thing
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Jan 29, 2016 03:25
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Judge chat: I just think it sucks how transparently wotc is about viewing the judges as expendable people willing to do work they don't consider valuable. I get why people are willing to do it but I think it's extremely garbage how the position is treated by the company.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:27
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Since Summer Bloom getting banned I've been tinkering with UB Mill because I hate fun. In like, a couple dozen games, I've had two T2 kills and several T3 kills. And that's aside from making people super salty with Surgical and Snapcaster.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:31
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Mikujin posted:Since Summer Bloom getting banned I've been tinkering with UB Mill because I hate fun. In like, a couple dozen games, I've had two T2 kills and several T3 kills. And that's aside from making people super salty with Surgical and Snapcaster. How does it win T2? I can't fathom how you do that, Hedron Crab? Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 03:33
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That coffee lawsuit is an amazing shibboleth for ignorance (to be fair, I too was ignorant about it at one time).
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Jan 29, 2016 03:33
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rabidsquid posted:I just think it sucks how transparently wotc is about viewing the judges as expendable people willing to do work they don't consider valuable. I get why people are willing to do it but I think it's extremely garbage how the position is treated by the company. Hey, I understand that completely. To be honest I kind of feel the same way, especially as recent events have shown that the supposed "independence" of the judge program is vastly overstated. As long as WOTC wants us to have a degree of latitude, I can understand a hands off approach, but you don't get to both let TOs pay judges and occasionally toss a foil bone our way and expect us all to fall in line at the drop of a hat. I definitely judge despite WOTC's handling of the program, not because of it.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:34
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JerryLee posted:That coffee lawsuit is an amazing shibboleth for ignorance (to be fair, I too was ignorant about it at one time). everyone is bc the media explicitly reported it as "haha look at this dumb bitch" instead of "oh poo poo this lady had loving burns and the coffee was actually super above what it was supposed to be at"
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Jan 29, 2016 03:38
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Count Bleck posted:How does it win T2? A couple of Archive Traps off their fetch, probably.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:40
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Count Bleck posted:How does it win T2? E: Mill is obviously not long for this T4 format world.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:41
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Count Bleck posted:How does it win T2? Opponent on the draw. (53 cards) T1: do nothing. Opponent T1: Draw (52), cracks a fetch (51), 4x Archive Trap (0) T2: also do nothing. Opponent T2: Win!
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Jan 29, 2016 03:45
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mandatory lesbian posted:everyone is bc the media explicitly reported it as "haha look at this dumb bitch" instead of "oh poo poo this lady had loving burns and the coffee was actually super above what it was supposed to be at" It's one of the easiest examples to show just how much corporations can brainwash the general public. Like, people who use that as an example are defending McDonalds over a woman who required reconstructive surgery because they decided to keep their coffee way too hot.
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Jan 29, 2016 03:56
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what is the ev of a pack of Oath? I somehow opened a box and came out ahead $50 by starcity prices?
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Jan 29, 2016 04:02
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GonSmithe posted:It's one of the easiest examples to show just how much corporations can brainwash the general public. It's a great right wing Personal Responsibility™ talking point too. We're at a point in this country where people are suing for coffee being hot! Next thing you know we'll sue for potato chips being too salty!
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Jan 29, 2016 04:05
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Mikujin posted:Since Summer Bloom getting banned I've been tinkering with UB Mill because I hate fun. In like, a couple dozen games, I've had two T2 kills and several T3 kills. And that's aside from making people super salty with Surgical and Snapcaster. Mikujin, you know me, and you know of my love for bullshit decks. When you say things like the above why don't you just post a decklist along with it instead of forcing me to beg you for it like a dog?
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Jan 29, 2016 04:10
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GonSmithe posted:It's one of the easiest examples to show just how much corporations can brainwash the general public. yeah, pretty much everything about it pisses me off to no end, corporate brainwashing is a good way of putting it
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Jan 29, 2016 04:16
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Gensuki posted:what is the ev of a pack of Oath? I somehow opened a box and came out ahead $50 by starcity prices? Not really relevant unless you're star city, is it?
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Jan 29, 2016 04:27
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Because I am a smart person I converted my Scalding Tarns into cards to play Boom // Bust Zoo. I make good decisions when it comes to decks with a card that says "destroy all lands" in it.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:41
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Mikujin posted:Since Summer Bloom getting banned I've been tinkering with UB Mill because I hate fun. In like, a couple dozen games, I've had two T2 kills and several T3 kills. And that's aside from making people super salty with Surgical and Snapcaster. Splash white for Path, dare them into actually searching for that land. Alris posted:Mikujin, you know me, and you know of my love for bullshit decks. When you say things like the above why don't you just post a decklist along with it instead of forcing me to beg you for it like a dog? I've had a Modern Esper Mill list built for a couple of years, it's probably not great in the grand scheme of things but I've been surprisingly successful with it. Sideboard probably needs to be revisited though, maybe some Pithing Needles or extra Ghost Quarters for the Tron matchup.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:18
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JerryLee posted:That coffee lawsuit is an amazing shibboleth for ignorance (to be fair, I too was ignorant about it at one time). I have learned two things now, both that the lawsuit wasn't nearly as frivolous as I had thought, and that shibboleth is a word. Neat. My apologies for using a poor example of a frivolous lawsuit. Pretend instead that I had used a good one. I still think we all understood that the point was that Hasbro would like to avoid frivolous litigation through inaction rather than risking it by acting. I'm not sure if Hasbro could make more money with a paper vintage masters that blows open the reserve list despite the legal costs, but I'm sure that someone at Hasbro/Wizards has done that math.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:22
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Opponent on the draw. (53 cards) Naw you play the four archive traps in response to their serum visions after the fetch for a T1 win.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:35
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The reserved list continues to exist because there are people out there with multiple sets of high quality power as investment. They're dumb people but they do exist.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:38
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Entropic posted:Who is it that's actually in favour of the reserve list at this point? Is it the east coast Vintage community (all eight of them)? Everyone around here wants the reserve list abolished so there are more people playing their format. Getting new players until the format is getting harder and harder.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:48
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