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hakimashou posted:No it was a good shoot look at the gif from the video he is trying to get his gun from his pocket to kill the police, like how he said he was going to. It a quote from freep. Says so at the bottom. You are argueing with the abyss.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:30
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bird cooch posted:It a quote from freep. Says so at the bottom. You are argueing with the abyss. No he's not. An abyss actually has a bottom.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:34
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I think that DefendYourBase should turn their situation into an exercise in democracy and let the American people decide. Full Roman Empire style. More thumbs up on a video - the doofuses (doofusi?) charge the FBI full-head-on, more thumbs down - they surrender. Or something.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:34
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A Winner is Jew posted:No he's not. If the abyss of freep didn't have a bottom, hoveround and rascal would be out of business. E: It's a good thing the FBI is jumping out in front of all this and releasing the full aerial footage of Finnacum's death. His cash kids need to see that their overseer-dad got shot by the FBI after trying to run their roadblock and fixing to loving shoot them. They should be brought to face the fact that their father was a dangerous and potentially unstable criminal and were he not put down in the woods, he might have blown up their house or burned it down with them inside. The same goes for the rest of the kids with the other criminals. They should be shown the truth of their parents' crimes before they become some stay-behind lost causers who think that the ebil gummit done wrongly jailed their daddy and/or momma. The sooner they are shown "this is what they did, this is why it is a crime and here is the law saying so, this is what the consequences are for their crimes" the better. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 09:39
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How long before these guys go all masada fortress and just paint the walls of the building with one another's brains? And that'll be even more tax dollars to clean up.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:49
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SedanChair posted:How long before these guys go all masada fortress and just paint the walls of the building with one another's brains? And that'll be even more tax dollars to clean up. Cleaning it up would take most of a small napkin.
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Jan 29, 2016 10:13
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Subterfrugal posted:I’ve replayed that video about 20 times, full screen and paused repeatedly and here’s what I think: You rear end in a top hat, I was all ready to angry post. 
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Jan 29, 2016 10:20
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I tried to combine the images to make a gif and it only sort of turned out
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Jan 29, 2016 10:22
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ok i think we've had enough of watching someone die for one day, thanks
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Jan 29, 2016 10:40
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Yeah, rip.
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Jan 29, 2016 10:41
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atomicthumbs posted:Ok I think we've had enough of watching someone die for one day, thanks.
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Jan 29, 2016 10:52
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Also, I know this is from a number of pages back, but I think it bears some more emphasis that someone who is crazy, a la SovCit nuts, and someone who is legitimately mentally ill are two entirely different things. They're not mutually exclusive, of course, and you've got probably a fair to high number of people in the SovCit movement who have some sort of diagnosable and probably untreated mental or emotional disorder, but just believing in something 'crazy' doesn't make you mentally ill. Even having a worldview wildly out of sync with the rest of humanity doesn't make you mentally ill. Mental illness means there's something legitimately wrong with your brain, either things like chemical imbalances or an inability to think in the same fashion that most of humanity thinks. Inability means you simply can't; not that for whatever reason you're just not. For instance, a SovCit can, in fact, change their way of thinking and stop believing in their particular brand of nuttery (of course, they could also trade one brand for another). This comes either from counseling, or time away from the movement and that social circle, experiences that jolt them enough that they lose faith in it, etc. It's not easy any more than it's easy to get anyone who believes really hard in something to change their mind, but it is possible. Furthermore, you can't treat their nonsense with medication or locking them up in an institution; at most you can try to 'deprogram' them, and since most deprogramming is essentially brain-washing in and of itself, that's not necessarily an improvement. In contrast, someone who is legitimately mentally ill can't just try hard enough and be 'cured'. You can be treated; many, many, many mentally or emotionally troubled people lead fairly normal lives with the right treatment--medication, counseling, whatever works for them--but you're not going to suddenly stop having Depression, or Schizophrenia, or Bipolar disorder, etc, etc, etc. And since every case of mental illness is different, because everyone's brain and body is different, people have differing successes or failures with various treatments, and some people have the particular disorder (or disorders, this sort of stuff loves to bunch up) much worse than others, so that even with treatment they just can't function in society--these are the guys that (should) end up in institutions. But as Prester Jane laid out, it's far harder to get committed than you'd imagine, in large part due to lack of funding for remaining institutions (a huge number of them were closed a few decades ago, mostly due to, well, the sorts of things movies make hay out of whenever mental institutions come into play, IE, being horrible abusive shitholes). The reason you have so many mentally ill people living on the streets is in large part because of this. There just isn't enough money any more to house them, and institutions can be wildly different in quality of care and/or shithole status. A family my family has known for a while has this problem; they have a family member with severe Depression and some more serious issues on top of it. She's a grown adult, they can't force her to take her meds and they can't involuntarily commit her (again, as laid out, it's hard even to voluntarily commit yourself sometimes), and despite having committed numerous suicide attempts the hospital will only hold her for a few days at most, then she's back out. And it's been said so many times on this forum it's probably worn a virtual hole into the coding, but mentally ill people are far, far, far more likely to be the victims of violence than the ones perpetrating it, often in part because people still just don't really understand mental illness, and in large part people don't care about it until it's a convenient scapegoat for something they can't understand, such as spree killers or cults or people with wildly different worldviews a la SovCits, in which case the call to just lock them all up happens. I'm sure there were probably some mentally ill people among this group. I'm by no means a doctor (just personally familiar with mental illness and emotional disorders; they run in my family, and they've done some wrecking) but I'd lay good odds on Fry having some emotional issues he needs to work through (but that said, we've been seeing him in manic grief mode the past few days, it could just be the result of having his big adventurous movement explode while also having someone he knew and apparently admired die, as far as he knows and is willing to believe, due to cold blooded murder). But the vast majority of them? No. The vast majority of Sovereign Citizens? I highly doubt it. The scary thing is you can be perfectly sane, even by most measures intelligent, and still fall for some incredibly ludicrous poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2016 10:53
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I think is more "Play stupid games, gain stupid prices" type of thing than suicide by cop. I am a nervous person, and in the same circunstances, my hands would be literally everywhere, moving at a fraction of the speed of light. Even if you are a person that would like more to police to deal with criminals with non-lethal weapons, this is not one of these circunstances where non-lethal weapons could have worked. By not surrendering completelly, showing not possible violent actions from their part he walked a thin line where you can get killed, and he got killed. I am sad, not for him, but for other people with more whorty causes that may face the federal government or other government. Governements are not always right, facing your government is a good thing. This events make it a little harder.
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Jan 29, 2016 10:57
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I told myself I would stop but I can't.SocketWrench posted:Peace through superior firepower, bitches. Y'all just got hogged This should be a thing. Is this already a thing? Despera posted:The guy in the top left, standing in the middle of nowhere was probably like "gently caress nothings going to happen here". When life hands you lemons. Maybe a thing that this guy could've said?
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Jan 29, 2016 11:48
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something I didn't see mentioned here - apparently it was an Oregon State Police officer who shot Finicum, not an FBI agent. What's the opposite of a feather in your hat? Because that bit is that for the whole militia thing.
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Jan 29, 2016 11:55
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atomicthumbs posted:something I didn't see mentioned here - apparently it was an Oregon State Police officer who shot Finicum, not an FBI agent. A loving medal. Or, to continue the warthog reference: maybe a small gold-fringed flag on his cruiser's left front quarterpanel. E: dumb words.
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Jan 29, 2016 11:57
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FAUXTON posted:If the abyss of freep didn't have a bottom, hoveround and rascal would be out of business. I think his foster kids are already gone from long before this. something about CPS Rodenthar Drothman posted:I told myself I would stop but I can't. Some of the gatlings on A-10's do read "Peace through superior firepower" complete with a peace sign Some of the military slang I've read and heard have used "hogged" as a meaning for a place/thing that had A-10's do a run on it. SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 12:28
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No news on Blaine Cooper, I take it?
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Jan 29, 2016 12:37
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SocketWrench posted:I think his foster kids are already gone from long before this. something about CPS Yeah they took the kids out of the house basically as soon as his name got mentioned as one of the terrorists occupying the place. That doesn't necessarily change the possibility that he's gotten the opportunity to indoctrinate them with his crack-rear end wacko poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:41
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Now a serious, if somewhat random, thought: remember that, according to Prester Jane's thesis, right-wingers value a lost fight as much, if not more, as a won one. (The whole "Molon Labe" thing, for example.) If I interpret this correctly, if those idiots draw out their stay in the refuge enough, it's possible that they will win a place in the mythology as 'honorable warriors who took on a machine larger than themselves' ('molon labe' again), right? I wonder if we'll get to observe a mythology of the Idahoan dolchstoss, or something.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:57
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That would honestly be hilarious if crazed fat guy and tweaked out methkid were put up on a pedestal as a great example of humanity.
Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 13:01
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I Am Not A Federal Agent (except if you are a pretty woman then I can totally be) so I'm willing to trust FBI's judgement here, but I wonder what is the reasoning for not just flashbanging the poo poo out of the last two dudes and throwing them in the backseat?
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Jan 29, 2016 13:04
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Vahakyla posted:I Am Not A Federal Agent (except if you are a pretty woman then I can totally be) so I'm willing to trust FBI's judgement here, but I wonder what is the reasoning for not just flashbanging the poo poo out of the last two dudes and throwing them in the backseat? Time is probably cheaper and avoids even the slight chance that someone gets shot.
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Jan 29, 2016 13:13
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Do the remaining 4 on the compound really think that the feds are going to just let them go away without being charged?
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Jan 29, 2016 13:15
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Iron Crowned posted:Do the remaining 4 on the compound really think that the feds are going to just let them go away without being charged? They think a lot of things that aren't consistent with logic or reality. Thinking they didn't commit any crimes is probably one of them.
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Jan 29, 2016 13:21
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FAUXTON posted:Thinking they didn't commit any crimes is probably one of them. 'We're just camping!'
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Jan 29, 2016 13:25
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Letting them stew until after the Bundy's bail hearing would be a hilariously dickish move.
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Jan 29, 2016 13:48
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it's pretty obvious they shot him while his hands were up which is why he jerked around like that
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Jan 29, 2016 13:54
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Pueidist posted:it's pretty obvious they shot him while his hands were up which is why he jerked around like that They should release the dash and bodycam footage.
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Jan 29, 2016 13:59
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McDowell posted:They should release the dash and bodycam footage. No one wants to see Officer Carl taking a piss behind a tree when the SUV was driving up.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:00
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Vahakyla posted:I Am Not A Federal Agent (except if you are a pretty woman then I can totally be) so I'm willing to trust FBI's judgement here, but I wonder what is the reasoning for not just flashbanging the poo poo out of the last two dudes and throwing them in the backseat? As Subterfrugal says. If the refuge is still occupied at the time of the detention hearing - which is today - then Bundy et al will likely remain in jail until trial. I may be overthinking this, but it strikes me that the feds saying "three of you can go free but one will be arrested" has only served to prolong the whole affair. A rare slip. Also, as has been the case throughout this thing, there's little to be gained from just going in, especially when they've been saying how much they want to surrender.(1) (1) as long as they're not held responsible for the actions for which they are entirely responsible.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWxTnIF7vP0 you can even see the dudes arms go down when the cop fires the fire shot at 5 secs
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Jan 29, 2016 14:06
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Perfectly Safe posted:As Subterfrugal says. If the refuge is still occupied at the time of the detention hearing - which is today - then Bundy et al will likely remain in jail until trial. I would be amazed if the judge allows bail of any kind. It would be career suicide if he allowed bail and then any one of these nuts picked up a gun and went into a mall or school.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:11
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ClownSyndrome posted:'We're just camping!' I'm still not sure if they actually believe this or if it's just a completely gutless attempt to garner sympathy now that they get to their fantasy is completely breaking down. Ordinarily I'd claim the latter, but given who we're dealing with, they could have convinced themselves of anything after two days alone.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:13
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Pueidist posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWxTnIF7vP0
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Jan 29, 2016 14:15
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Pueidist posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWxTnIF7vP0 Yeah this speaks for itself. Anyone saying the dude's hands were up when he was shot are full of it, you can see him reaching into his coat right there. No cop is going to want to take a chance with their life allowing the subject to potentially reach for a weapon after they've been told to put their hands up. Especially one who is on record saying that he wouldn't allow himself to be arrested and was armed. He even reached down multiple times before they fired at him. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 14:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I would be amazed if the judge allows bail of any kind. It would be career suicide if he allowed bail and then any one of these nuts picked up a gun and went into a mall or school. I hope you're right. The more pressing concern, I guess, would be that they'd hole up somewhere else and make a whole different set of demands about being tried in a common law court or whatever. Anyway, it rather looks like the combined efforts of the FBI and the cosplayers at the refuge have made it a relatively easy decision. Mercury_Storm posted:...been told to put their hands up. You've touched the poop, but never mind. Unless I'm missing something, the order would be to "lie down on the ground with your hands away from your body".
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Jan 29, 2016 14:31
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Another 7 hours of sleep and another 300+ posts. What is the latest?
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Jan 29, 2016 14:32
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Pueidist posted:it's pretty obvious they shot him while his hands were up which is why he jerked around like that Source your quotes.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:36
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cr0y posted:Another 7 hours of sleep and another 300+ posts. What is the latest? The video shows Lavoy in a quantum state of both reaching for his gun and being shot without warning.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:36
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