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feedmegin posted:I'd have guessed a battalion gun as was popular in the 18th century - integral firepower for infantry units, basically - though those uniforms look more Civil War or something civil war mounted artillery, look at the swords (non-mounted artillery has straighter swords i think???) edit: that's a 6 pounder howitzer, one of the mainstays of this war, esp. its western theaters edit 2: for really adorable guns, look at the King Howitzer, an 18th century weapon HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 21:18
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I know the Germans interned civilians in camps as well, P.G. Wodehouse was in one and was later accused of collaboration after some short stories of his about the follies of living in one were used as propoganda claiming that life in the camps weren't so bad. Internees that had German ancestry were sent to live with relatives, which was better, right up until they were drafted.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:26
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HEY GAL posted:civil war mounted artillery, look at the swords (non-mounted artillery has straighter swords i think???) Are you sure, because that's p teeny and also I found where the picture came from - http://www.lovettartillery.com/Woodruff_Gun_American_Civil_War.html 2pdr.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:28
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feedmegin posted:Are you sure, because that's p teeny and also I found where the picture came from - Did you check out my tiny gun link?
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Feb 1, 2016 21:29
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HEY GAL posted:I stand corrected. I didn't know those things existed. I did. That's even more of a babby cannon, it looks like you could practically put a stock on it and fire it from your shoulder. It's cute 
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Feb 1, 2016 21:30
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feedmegin posted:I did. That's even more of a babby cannon, it looks like you could practically put a stock on it and fire it from your shoulder. It's cute so cute it's especially ridiculous looking on those big fat 18th century carriages, which would have been ox-drawn--yes, even the little howitzers
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Feb 1, 2016 21:32
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sullat posted:I know the Germans interned civilians in camps as well, P.G. Wodehouse was in one and was later accused of collaboration after some short stories of his about the follies of living in one were used as propoganda claiming that life in the camps weren't so bad. Internees that had German ancestry were sent to live with relatives, which was better, right up until they were drafted. A bit more than his short stories 'being used' - he read them out personally on the radio, voluntarily, during the war. Not the smartest of moves, though it seems pretty clear he wasn't actually pro-Nazi.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:33
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xthetenth posted:I've done Mexican-American war recruitment Was that the time they literally grabbed paddies from off the boat and sent them to fight in the desert?
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Feb 1, 2016 21:45
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chat once or twice.
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Was that the time they literally grabbed paddies from off the boat and sent them to fight in the desert? Oh please no, they recruited them fair and square to go fight. To go fight the English over the Oregon border which had already been settled. They certainly didn't ask them to fight Catholics on behalf of a country that presently hated Catholics, that'd be rude.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:51
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StashAugustine posted:Sounds like an excitable boy. "Boy" meaning a man in his 60s who got obsessed with a girl who died at 22 because of visions he received from an ancestor in Germany.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:16
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chitoryu12 posted:"Boy" meaning a man in his 60s who got obsessed with a girl who died at 22 because of visions he received from an ancestor in Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhBJlW4Kd_A
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Feb 1, 2016 22:22
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HEY GAL posted:
oh my gosh look at that thing
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Feb 1, 2016 22:30
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chitoryu12 posted:I looked up that picture and it's from a space debris test. Here's the image with the relevant measurements. Phanatic posted:What's dubious about it? APBC out of that gun is 46.5 kg at 600 mps, that's 8.37 megajoules. 10 megajoules as a rough figure isn't that bad. The dubious bit was my early morning head math apparently.  I was shocked that the ISU-152 would have so much more energy given the order of magnitude lower velocity. But after crunching the numbers on the original figure myself, that little aluminium ball is just much lighter than I would have thought. Aluminium truly is a miracle in and of itself.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:46
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:The dubious bit was my early morning head math apparently. Aluminum is very light for its size (169 pounds per cubic foot, whereas iron is 491 pounds per cubic foot), which is why vehicles like the M2 Bradley and M113 Gavin Dragon used it for armor: to stay as light as possible while not being totally defenseless. Since that picture was a space debris test, they were using the common lightweight metal for spacecraft and satellites that would be likely to be colliding at such high velocities in orbit. It's not at all figurative when I say that an ISU-152 shell hits like a speeding semi truck, with all that energy concentrated into a much smaller projectile. Empress Theonora posted:oh my gosh look at that thing Another tiny cannon was "Come and Take It", a little gun firing grapeshot balls. It was given by the Mexican government to the DeWitt Colony in 1831, and they tried to take it back after the Anglo-American "Texicans" decided to rebel and turn Texas into an independent state. It used to be a swivel gun, but it was mounted on a pair of cart wheels made from tree trunks and towed by some oxen. The Texans fought off the Mexican detachment sent to seize the gun and even made a flag to hang over the gun, taunting the Mexicans. It was a point of pride for the Texan rebels and remains a symbol of Texan Second Amendment advocates to this day in the form of tattoos of the flag (kinda like an American version of Molon Labe), but as far as I know the gun itself was quickly abandoned and never really served as a useful tool in battle.  
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Feb 1, 2016 23:05
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chitoryu12 posted:Aluminum is very light for its size (169 pounds per cubic foot, whereas iron is 491 pounds per cubic foot), which is why vehicles like the M2 Bradley and M113 Gavin Dragon used it for armor: to stay as light as possible while not being totally defenseless. Since that picture was a space debris test, they were using the common lightweight metal for spacecraft and satellites that would be likely to be colliding at such high velocities in orbit. It's not at all figurative when I say that an ISU-152 shell hits like a speeding semi truck, with all that energy concentrated into a much smaller projectile. lol at that thing
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Feb 1, 2016 23:12
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Hogge Wild posted:lol at that thing It's cold, alright?
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Feb 1, 2016 23:14
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Fangz posted:It's kinda the subtext behind the British propaganda during the Battle of Britain, but more generally was probably in place around WWI. This is American WW1 propaganda - you can see that the woman is the statue of liberty, and I've always wondered at the racist imagery of slavering-ape-beast-after-white-women, and the utter bastard skill of propaganda artists who were able to channel anti-German feeling (a pretty low ebb) into race hysteria.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:15
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It's not at all ironic that an enlistment poster depicts militarism as a mad brute that should be destroyed. The thing I've wondered about that particular poster is if it served as inspiration for King Kong?
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Feb 1, 2016 23:22
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StashAugustine posted:It's cold, alright? Ironically, the symbol of Texan pride is a symbol of Texans.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:23
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Guys for home defense I've bought this little cannon that I keep primed and ready to fire at all times. I use steel ball bearings for shot, but I was thinking of substituting black powder with shotgun propellant, thoughts?
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Feb 1, 2016 23:27
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StashAugustine posted:It's cold, alright? 8-
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Feb 1, 2016 23:27
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Nenonen posted:It's not at all ironic that an enlistment poster depicts militarism as a mad brute that should be destroyed. I did some reading on King Kong and I think it may have been a lucky coincidence. Kong was inspired by the filmmaker having an obsession with gorillas and baboons since a young age, and he got the idea to make a movie about gorillas fighting komodo dragons. He eventually narrowed it down to a single, especially badass gorilla (which became a giant badass gorilla) and added a woman due to criticism of his past films neglecting a romantic angle. I have a feeling the critics didn't expect their romance demands to be appeased with "Giant gorilla falls in love with human woman smaller than his penis."
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Feb 1, 2016 23:28
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Nebakenezzer posted:Guys for home defense I've bought this little cannon that I keep primed and ready to fire at all times. I use steel ball bearings for shot, but I was thinking of substituting black powder with shotgun propellant, thoughts? artillery is always a primo choice for home defense, good job
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Feb 1, 2016 23:30
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lenoon posted:This is American WW1 propaganda - you can see that the woman is the statue of liberty, and I've always wondered at the racist imagery of slavering-ape-beast-after-white-women, and the utter bastard skill of propaganda artists who were able to channel anti-German feeling (a pretty low ebb) into race hysteria. Seems like it's the other way around. They channeled their honkey racism against the Germans for a little while.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:38
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I shall remember this the next time anyone tries to tell me about things being bigger in Texas.
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Feb 2, 2016 00:24
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chitoryu12 posted:"Giant gorilla falls in love with human woman smaller than his penis." We didn't actually see his penis, though. How can we be sure?
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Feb 2, 2016 01:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:We didn't actually see his penis, though. How can we be sure? Oh god we just suffered this in the Venture Bros thread.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:12
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Once again I implore this thread, is there a one-volume history of the Napoleonic Wars worth reading, preferably with Black Taxi's "Becoming" on a loop in the background?
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Feb 2, 2016 01:37
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SeanBeansShako posted:Oh god we just suffered this in the Venture Bros thread. What the gently caress is wrong with goons? In a transparent effort to bring this thread back on track, can you tell us about military headgear of your period? What was the progression like? How/when did infantry abandon their armor, what did mitres come from, why were they replaced with tricorns, why were those replaced with bearskins, etc. etc. Just talk about some military bling if you've got the inclination, dude. I'd love to read it.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:21
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Grand Prize Winner posted:What the gently caress is wrong with goons? Well a lot of it was basically 'well, I pay for the regiment so we're going to look loving good man!' by the rich dudes who founded and funded the regiments until the other half of the 18th century when the state began to step in. Regimental officers usually had their own uniforms tailored privately and regulations weren't too hardcore until the late Napoleonic Wars with most armies. Average grunt of the line had to make due with mass produced stuff (this stuff arrived as the Industrial revolution was kicking into gear). Sometimes on the field, soldiers and officers had to improvise for clothing lost or well just damaged during the long marches and outside camping on campaign. Sometimes it really depended on how easy it was to get the dye to mass produce some uniform colours or how cheap it was to produce synthetically in bulk. Hell this fashion helped a lot as identifiers, cockades and the split or whole coloured plumes and pom poms alongside shako plates gave each one a lovely personal touch for the hundreds of soldiers who wore them. Sometimes it could just well be traditional too (Cromwells New Model Army started the whole red uniform thing that the British Army latched onto). Cheap dye though on the soldiers after a while faded and even ran down and stained their trousers or breeches on campaign. The shako added height to a soldier of the early 19th century, through a screen of gun powder in the distance an officer couldn't tell if he was facing vanilla line or bad rear end crack elite troops because everyone looked massive with huge towers of felt and leather on their heads. Up until the 1840's some european armies shakos got taller and bulkier during times of peace but they got a lot less fat when war broke out or just replaced with kepi or forage caps. I quite like the Albert shako, the peak of mid 19th century head gear. Some of the Prussian and Russia militia rocked some really nice looking peaked field caps. The Mitre on a Russian Foot Guard regiment was kept during the Napoleonic Wars because of bad rear end conduct during a battle, and some regiments were allowed to wear unique head gear or uniforms that should have been retired a little longer for such things. The metal classical style helmets of the cavalry in this era had quite a bit of protection from saber blows now and well looked loving intimidating too. Bicorns are also pretty rad and I always think they looked better than the slightly more unique officer shakos that popped up at the tail end of the Napoleonic Wars.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:18
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EvanSchenck posted:In a word, yes. I'm not sure anybody knows the source of the persistent myth of the peasant levy in particular. It probably has to do with the more general myth of the "Dark Ages" where Rome completely disappeared in 476 AD and European civilization completely lost touch with the glory and grandeur of ancient Greco-Roman civilization. Obviously everything was crapsack and the armies must have declined from disciplined legions to rowdy gangs of hapless peasants. While most of your post requires no comment, there are a few things that merit mention. The first is that peasant levies did exist in some sense. In Louis VI's time there were "communes" which could be summoned and brought to war, led by their parish priest. However, from everything I've seen, they were used primarily as manual labor, though one of the commune priests is mentioned as breaking open the gates of Le Puiset during one of the many sieges thereat. There is also the Fyrd in England, though this was only called up in times of dire emergency, and was equipped better than just clubs and pitchforks. Even at Hastings, R. Allen Brown estimates only 1/3 of the English were fyrdmen, iirc. quote:This is one of the reasons that there are no peasant levies. Military affairs are the lord's responsibility to the peasants, not vice versa. If the peasants had to take up arms every time there was a fight, what is even the point of having a lord at all? This is one of the things that makes modern nobility peculiar, because their claim to lordship is entirely due to custom, or custom formalized as Law. It's pitiful. quote:In the Hundred Years War, this arrangement led to the use of chevauchee strategy, in which an army (usually the English) would ride through an enemy's territory wrecking up the place, which demonstrated that the lord wasn't doing his job. The peasants would get pissed off and complain, putting pressure on the men whose lands were being raided to respond quickly, which was a way to force an enemy to battle even if they were reluctant to fight. So I have some small quibbles with this: Chevauchee is not a strategy in and of itself, since the strategy is to draw the French to battle and defeat them there. Chevauchee is part of that, but it is not a strategy in itself. Even the strategy I describe is simplified, but phone posting. Second, we don't have any real evidence, afaik, of peasants complaining. What we do have is evidence of minor and major nobility complaining, and this fits with the earlier medieval trend of knights and nobles being the source (or at least the voice) of political opposition to royal policy.
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Feb 2, 2016 04:25
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Once again I implore this thread, is there a one-volume history of the Napoleonic Wars worth reading, preferably with Black Taxi's "Becoming" on a loop in the background? Short answer is no because it's a huge topic that is really a series of wars with signficant or no overlap, depending. Swords around a throne is a good volume on the one thing (besides the dude) that held the whole series of conflicts together.
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Feb 2, 2016 05:18
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Short answer is no because it's a huge topic that is really a series of wars with signficant or no overlap, depending. Close enough, thank you!
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Feb 2, 2016 08:23
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Seems like it's the other way around. They channeled their honkey racism against the Germans for a little while. Ah, yeah, that's what I meant. Clumsy wording.
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Feb 2, 2016 08:51
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Close enough, thank you! Once you are done with that, you might as well just treat yourself every now and then to books that focus on certain campaigns of the era. Enjoy a possibly decade long hobby my friend!
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Feb 2, 2016 10:42
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xthetenth posted:Oh please no, they recruited them fair and square to go fight. This did happen in 1848, though. Also, the Irish mutinied and joined the Mexican side as St. Patricks batallion. David Rovics recorded a rather neat song about it, in fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idKD47x0JaM \/\/\/ E: Derp, you know what I mean \/\/\/ Tias fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 11:44
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Tias posted:This did happen in 1948, though. Also, the Irish mutinied and joined the Mexican side as St. Patricks batallion. Postwar American history is rather more violent than I'd previously assumed!
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Feb 2, 2016 11:49
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:There is also the Fyrd in England, though this was only called up in times of dire emergency, and was equipped better than just clubs and pitchforks. Even at Hastings, R. Allen Brown estimates only 1/3 of the English were fyrdmen, iirc. I though the fyrd was specifically relatively better off freemen rather than peasants?
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Feb 2, 2016 11:57
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Tias posted:This did happen in 1848, though. Also, the Irish mutinied and joined the Mexican side as St. Patricks batallion. Of course they ordered them to, but they didn't ask a lot of them  .
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Feb 2, 2016 14:10
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feedmegin posted:I though the fyrd was specifically relatively better off freemen rather than peasants? Freeman and peasant are kind of interchangeable terms in Anglo-Saxon England. The criteria for being the lowest rank of freeman is someone who works a single hide (about 30 acres, or enough for one family) of land, which he probably rents from someone else. He also has to have some weapons he can bring if he gets called up to defend the general area from raiders or whatever. Are you confusing peasants with serfs, maybe? I think that sometimes people imagine serfs when they hear the term peasant, but later medieval peasants were freemen. Serfs were the ones bound to land that they did not own, had fewer rights, could be forced to do other things besides work the lord's land, etc.
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Feb 2, 2016 14:53
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