|
William Bear posted:A Class C Felony in Oregon is punishable by up to 5 years in prison and/or up to$125,000 in fines.
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
CroatianAlzheimers posted:They're paranoid militia shitbags. What do you think? I'd assume each one had two pistols, an absurd amount of ammunition, and a combat knife, not because they got all armed up for a fight, but because that's their normal daily loadout.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
Personally I'm glad they've gone fullblown sovereign citizen. It's going to lose them any sane sympathizers they had left. Have the Bundys openly allied themselves with Doucett though?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
While this is amazing having even more of these nutjobs in the center of town really turns this from idiots in the woods to crazies in the city. This is probably the least funny this event has ever been.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
It starts with "they're lying to us" Then it dehumanises us for public service. Then they want us fired for doing our jobs. When that doesn't work... This week staff was put on notice not to disagree with the public in public forums because members of said public complained. Being in the government basically means you have to give up your first amendment rights too. Its painful when you're discouraged from even disagreeing publicly with people who claim to know your mind, heart and competency. But its OK, its just a peaceful protest armed, peaceful protest. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:47
|
|
|
size1one posted:Kangaroo court orders the arrest of people involved in the ambush of Lavoy If/when one of the many insane assholes try to enforce this I hope they don't actually manage to kidnap a LEO or any restraint the FBI is showing will evaporate quickly, to say nothing of what they'd do if some militia dude tried to kidnap these people and one of the targeted people got shot in the process for "resisting" or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:50
|
|
|
Hahah this is ridiculous. Also I told my SO that one of her Christmas 2015 presents was a weekend at the Crystal Crane Hot Springs, site of one of the Bundy meetings when they were denied a meeting space in Burns. Not sure I want to patronize a place that gives these folks a platform, OTOH hot springs....
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/LincolnGraves/status/694261024992538624/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:51
|
|
|
I'm starting to get the uneasy feeling someone innocent is going to get hurt by this poo poo now. And in turn they'll get dehumanised by being labeled a crisis actor. I don't like this at all.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:53
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:If/when one of the many insane assholes try to enforce this I hope they don't actually manage to kidnap a LEO or any restraint the FBI is showing will evaporate quickly, to say nothing of what they'd do if some militia dude tried to kidnap these people and one of the targeted people got shot in the process for "resisting" or whatever. We can't build a competent government for the same reason people don't want to be teachers anymore, similar first amendment and pay issues but now besides being the source of all societies ills the militia movement sees us as valid military targets too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:54
|
|
|
Skinty McEdger posted:I'm starting to get the uneasy feeling someone innocent is going to get hurt by this poo poo now. And in turn they'll get dehumanised by being labeled a crisis actor. Legal question, if a narrative forms around someone who is hurt by this and they are labeled a crisis actor do they have legal ground to sue for libel?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:Legal question, if a narrative forms around someone who is hurt by this and they are labeled a crisis actor do they have legal ground to sue for libel? I don't think the laws identify this anymore than they do "He's a 5 headed unicorn!" Which would make it free speech.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
RuanGacho posted:I don't think the laws identify this anymore than they do "He's a 5 headed unicorn!" Which would make it free speech. It was my (quite possibly mistaken) assumption that blatantly untrue statements that are publicized that had the effect of causing provable damage were actionable in court. If I am being bad and dumb please correct me. Edit: Looking at the Oregon law codes for defamation seem to support my understanding of the law. So if calling people crisis actor picks up steam there could and should be law suits flying around. Best case scenario is that people have to issue retractions. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:02
|
|
|
Jumpingmanjim posted:https://twitter.com/LincolnGraves/status/694261024992538624/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw This is great! The rest of the situation is just frustratingly awful. It looks like outsiders are trying to take over this town. Someone is going to lose their poo poo if this keeps going.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:04
|
|
William Bear posted:A Class C Felony in Oregon is punishable by up to 5 years in prison and/or up to$125,000 in fines. It's on the Robert "LaVoy" Finicum page. Not sure who's running it.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:It was my (quite possibly mistaken) assumption that blatantly untrue statements that are publicized that had the effect of causing provable damage were actionable in court. If I am being bad and dumb please correct me. I'm not a lawyer and I only pretend to understand municiple codes. I'm more speaking to the fact that the concept of a crisis actor is so out there to the average human being that it would be like declaring unicorns and has no legal precedent as far as I'm aware.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
Lomarf https://twitter.com/HGTomato/status/694309000838561792
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
RuanGacho posted:I'm not a lawyer and I only pretend to understand municiple codes. I'm more speaking to the fact that the concept of a crisis actor is so out there to the average human being that it would be like declaring unicorns and has no legal precedent as far as I'm aware. I feel like the general public would understand that someone is claiming someone else is a liar and a fraud easily enough. The word may be strange but I feel like the concept would not be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:10
|
|
|
NewMars posted:On the FBI from that letter: "These men are employed by the French Banking Cartel known as the International Monetary Fund, which is an agency of the United Nations." They're following the form letter from that "Judge" Anna Riezinger, a self-appointed crank who's popped up occasionally in relation to this story, mainly to give pseudolegal advice to the occupiers and their sympathizers. The relevant post from her website: quote:Friday, January 29, 2016 This stuff is too sick to make up. Elsewhere on her website is an order to pay the family of Finicum two billion dollars in silver. Commentary on websites that feature Riezinger's writing is suggesting people beg General Joseph Dunford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to intervene. William Bear fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
Does the person saying it know it's false? Is the person it's said about a public figure? If so, is it said with malicious intent? Does it actually harm the person it's said about? Those are the things that will factor into the defamation alalysis. The latter factor is the one likely to neuter a claim, because only a couple fringe idiots on blogs are likely to take such a claim seriously. That said, suppose a hundred idiots sunk their teeth into it, blanketed someone's community with leaflets or w/e, and they lost their job. The sure you've got a comparable defamation claim. You will likely be seeking damages from someone who lives in their van though, so good luck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:200 militia members are currently in the third hour of a shouting match with about 300 local residents on the steps of the Burns courthouse. There are substantially more militia members in Burns at present than there was during the peak of the refuge occupation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
This is kind of an uneasy situation now that there's a big pile of these fuckups interacting with a civilian populace instead of sitting around in the woods. I hope this gets resolved peaceably and the authorities have sufficient resources available to contain things immediately if it does not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
We are people of We The People. New thread title?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
quote:(1) My name is_____________. (2) I live in ____________, ____________. (3) I am in fear for my life and property as a result of commercial mercenaries operating under color of law calling themselves “FBI” agents. (4) These men are pretending to represent the lawful government of the United States while engaged in criminal racketeering and murder on our shores. (5) These men are employed by the French banking cartel known as the International Monetary Fund which is an agency of the United Nations. (6) They are provoking acts of war on our soil, when they and their corporation no longer have any natural right to be here. Their contract to provide governmental services here is over. (7) We require the immediate assistance of the combined American military and civilian police forces to remove these undeclared foreign agents from our shores. Oh man, why do I get the feeling that somewhere in the United States a very confused government official got a very odd call due to this? Like, how do you even reconcile the fact that that sounds absolutely batshit insane? You'd have to have literally zero self awareness. Edit: I'm reminded of that hilarious call to 911 where a bunch of paranoid idiots confessed to smuggling a ton of weed into the state and were literally begging the (increasingly confused, and then increasingly amused as he got them to confess everything up to and including their names and location) dispatcher to just "end it" and have all the cops they were sure were all around them arrest them already. This is the "Okay, you just admitted you need to be put on a federal watch list for the safety of the greater community." version of that. Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:18
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:I hope this gets resolved peaceably and the authorities have sufficient resources available to contain things immediately if it does not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
"I'M GOING OUT IN A BLAZE OF GLORius paperwork certifying how uncool and useless my death was" - Lavoy Cobain
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
I do not like this at all. Why do these idiots think that if you slap "We the People" on it that it's official? They have such a colonial hard-on ... it's insane.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
William Bear posted:This stuff is too sick to make up. Elsewhere on her website is an order to pay the family of Finicum two billion dollars in silver. Commentary on websites that feature Riezinger's writing is suggesting people beg General Joseph Dunford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to intervene. I was kinda curious how much space two billion dollars worth of silver would take up. Thats roughly 2820 tons of silver. Which is roughly the size of a small house. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
Kazak_Hstan posted:Does the person saying it know it's false? Is the person it's said about a public figure? If so, is it said with malicious intent? Does it actually harm the person it's said about? Those are the things that will factor into the defamation alalysis. The latter factor is the one likely to neuter a claim, because only a couple fringe idiots on blogs are likely to take such a claim seriously. I may be internet lawyering but I feel like most of there statements could be construed as defamation per se and thus damages are not required to be proved and are automatically assumed. But yeah we are a bit off topic now so Ill stop posting about law stuff. If any one has experience with Oregon law feel free to rip my theory a new one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/694313609732583425
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
William Bear posted:They're following the form letter from that "Judge" Anna Riezinger, a self-appointed crank who's popped up occasionally in relation to this story, mainly to give pseudolegal advice to the occupiers and their sympathizers. RIP Tarpman, not even worth gold
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
William Bear posted:They're following the form letter from that "Judge" Anna Riezinger, a self-appointed crank who's popped up occasionally in relation to this story, mainly to give pseudolegal advice to the occupiers and their sympathizers. Wait until this guy finds out that the FBI was created a couple of decades before the IMF.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
I wonder if these assholes just imagine Aaron Copland music playing throughout their lives. There's so much assumed grandeur for their cause, and angst about the world that's changing around them. It's really pathetic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:35
|
|
|
Rodenthar Drothman posted:I do not like this at all. This is a religion, not a political ideology. They twist and contort the Constitution in the exact same way that crazy zealots twist and contort the Bible or the Quran. The founders are their ancient holy men and they cosplay as them for the same reason crazy Christians go around cosplaying as the disciples. There is a whooooooooole lot of concentrated crazy in Burns right now. The best case scenario is they all go broke and get tired of waiting in the cold for nothing to happen and go home. The worst case scenario is......well it's bad and if poo poo gets real in Burns it could inspire a small wave of sympathetic attacks (both by lone wolf's and other militia's) all over the country. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:We are people of We The People. We, the We The People people. We, the We The People of Harney County people, are facing off angrily with the people of Harney County.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/BobHeye/status/694236951759552512 So, this is interesting. There's also a claim that one of the bundies is getting an LDS judge in the conversation of the tweet. Is this just more nonsense, or does anyone have a good source?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/leszaitz/status/694315945129422849
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
Killer-of-Lawyers posted:https://twitter.com/BobHeye/status/694236951759552512 Well there's this from the Oregonian. It doesn't say anything about the judge being a Mormon, just that he's the appellate judge on duty to hear reviews like this for the month.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
It's probably worth repeating that the official position of the LDS church regarding these events is 'This is uncool, we do not approve'. More worrying would be if the judge shares similar SovCit or Militia sympathetic views. Granted, I'm biased; if I was the judge, I'd throw the loving book at them as hard as I could because we shared the same religion (which would also be inappropriate). This guy? Who knows.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 01:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:32 |
|
|
Rodenthar Drothman posted:I do not like this at all. If you'd like a nice overview of just how deep the rabbit hole goes, here, take a gander at this opinion from a judge in Canada. I'd differ from Prester Jane a bit and say the sovcit part of this isn't religion so much as it is magical thinking. There's overlap, but sovereign citizens are less like someone radicalized by a fire and brimstone sermon and more like someone sold on the One Trick that Judges Don't Want You to Know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2016 02:01
|
|
