|
Angry Grimace posted:Chandra's commitment to Zendikar comes off as really random given that Chandra only showed up like 3 chapters ago and doesn't even know Nissa. Also, I'm pretty sure that Gideon doesn't know that the three Planeswalkers most responsible for all life on Zendikar being extinguished are the other members of the Rangers. I hope Sorin points that out to them. I suppose his history with Nissa is a good reason for him to not get in the treehouse with them. It does sound like he'll interact with the Gatewatch in SoI though. Why isn't Kiora in the Gatewatch? There's art of her going to war with Gideon and the allies.
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 05:53 |
|
|
Sigma-X posted:They've never said they're going to aggressively reprint them though? They said that they wanted a format where they could reprint cards, not that they were going to sculpt a particular maximum deck price. this is the most incorrect loving thing e ver written in this thread, and that includes that asinine argument about new slivers before m14 first of all you're assuming i buy packs second you're assuming that when i do buy [acks its for a reason other than i have an addictive personality and the monkey on my back wants his fuckin bananas third you're assuming that aggressive reprints would drive expensive cards down to pauper prices which is lmao as gently caress given that onslaught fetches are still expensive as dick edit also that aggressive reprints means Chronicles and not Modern Masters+ BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:I hope Sorin points that out to them. I suppose his history with Nissa is a good reason for him to not get in the treehouse with them. It does sound like he'll interact with the Gatewatch in SoI though. she was pretty involved last set but this set she's not with the main 4, all we've seen her do is get back her bident.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Pro Tour Gauntlet to let players try top Pro Tour Modern decks on MTGO that sounds sweet i am gonna do so many of those lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
unfortunately you cant play six bucks to play EGGS BEST DECK EVER so its fuckin trash
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Literally The Worst posted:unfortunately you cant play six bucks to play EGGS BEST DECK EVER so its fuckin trash Well take it to the top of the PT and you can fix that! Disregarding the "try before you buy" aspect (which doesn't work so well as you don't pick the deck, and Wizards can't acknowlege the singles market) it's going to be really good for getting more familiar with the format at large.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Well take it to the top of the PT and you can fix that! no second sunrise, haven't had a chance to gently caress with the KCI version because i refuse to drop money on fetches, so i play an absolutely retarded legacy version it's good poo poo op
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:44
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:They've never said they're going to aggressively reprint them though? They said that they wanted a format where they could reprint cards, not that they were going to sculpt a particular maximum deck price. Nobody is cracking packs for expensive modern staples because -- get this -- Wizards refuses to print and sell packs containing expensive modern staples. Scalding Tarn wasn't $100 while it was actually in print in Zendikar, and now that it is $100 nobody is cracking packs to get it because there simply aren't packs to crack.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:I hope Sorin points that out to them. I suppose his history with Nissa is a good reason for him to not get in the treehouse with them. It does sound like he'll interact with the Gatewatch in SoI though. NO MULTI-COLOREDS
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Yeah, it's trivially easy to disprove, via observation, the weird boogeyman that having staple cards in ample supply will crash their price to 10 cents or whatever instead of, you know, $5-10. Or that people won't pay $90 for boxes of the in-print sets containing said staple cards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
i mean i know for a fact that ever since they reprinted fetchs in KTK i haven't bought a single pack of onslaught, so maybe he's got somethign there. . . .
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
black potus posted:i mean i know for a fact that ever since they reprinted fetchs in KTK i haven't bought a single pack of onslaught, so maybe he's got somethign there. . . . also its weird that you can pick up great cards for pauper prices because last time i checked ONS delta was still 40 bucks which is a far cry from 100something but hardly in the dirt, almost like a balanced point between being dirt cheap and being prohibitively expensive
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Winddswept heath is still like 12-13$ and that is with a copy in the duel deck that had some other costy cards as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
Also, I buy officially printed cards (when I bought them) despite having a FedEx Office down the street, because I was willing to pay a mild premium for pretty things to play my games with, and not because I thought owning them was going to make me the new captain of industry in ten years. but you know, different strokes for different folks Literally The Worst posted:also its weird that you can pick up great cards for pauper prices because last time i checked ONS delta was still 40 bucks And it's even better than that because you can go down to 15-20 for the KTK version, so the 30-40 bucks is simply an option for oldschool cred and not a baseline requirement if you want to be a powerful enough wizard to search your deck for an island or a swamp
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:Yeah, it's trivially easy to disprove, via observation, the weird boogeyman that having staple cards in ample supply will crash their price to 10 cents or whatever instead of, you know, $5-10. Or that people won't pay $90 for boxes of the in-print sets containing said staple cards. That is part of the problem with the price of staples. People know they're staples. They acquire them, and many people acquire extras to hold onto because they know the cards have long term value. People like me will trade standard playable junk into modern playable cards alllll day long. That has some affect on the price by making the cards less available. There was a lot of KTK opened. You can tell that from the fact that nothing in that set is worth poo poo aside from fetches. Fetches did drop in price, and now have doubled up from the bottom already while KTK is still in print. Its real hard to print staples in a way that lowers their price in any long term fashion, and doesn't inflate the price of other cards. If 10 cards in a modern deck go from $500 to $100, may people will try to build that deck, which creates demand on the cards that didn't get printed, which raises their price. To "fix it" you'd have to essentially print the entire contents of a deck to kill the value of the whole thing at the same time, and print it into the ground so it never gets back up again. Pretty sure they're not going to do that, so the price of modern will never get cheaper as long as the demand for it exists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
Okay so, get this. Pokemon has playable decks that I am pretty sure are tournament legal that are A) Played by pro players and 2) are tier 1 standard meta game decks. WotC: Take a bunch of modern decks played by proplayers, sideboard and all, and sell them all ready to go for like I dunno 50 bucks or something. You make poo poo loads, the cards are expensive but not prohibitively so, and the idiots that hoard them for mtg finance get to be happy being the idiots they are. Hire me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Pro Tour Gauntlet to let players try top Pro Tour Modern decks on MTGO Going to play so many of these
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:That is part of the problem with the price of staples. People know they're staples. They acquire them, and many people acquire extras to hold onto because they know the cards have long term value. People like me will trade standard playable junk into modern playable cards alllll day long. That has some affect on the price by making the cards less available. There was a lot of KTK opened. You can tell that from the fact that nothing in that set is worth poo poo aside from fetches. Fetches did drop in price, and now have doubled up from the bottom already while KTK is still in print. Its real hard to print staples in a way that lowers their price in any long term fashion, and doesn't inflate the price of other cards. If 10 cards in a modern deck go from $500 to $100, may people will try to build that deck, which creates demand on the cards that didn't get printed, which raises their price. To "fix it" you'd have to essentially print the entire contents of a deck to kill the value of the whole thing at the same time, and print it into the ground so it never gets back up again. Pretty sure they're not going to do that, so the price of modern will never get cheaper as long as the demand for it exists. For cards to effectively go down in price the concentration of good chase cards in a set has to be higher than what WOTC has been comfortable with recently in standard sets. Right now the prices of sealed product are concentrated into about 1-4 cards for standard sets. A khans box is basically valued at the 4 fetches, origins is all in jace, and the rest with a handful of multi-format playables. Once innistrad is out and the power level is still not there I expect prices to jump even more. Their current model of being overly careful of power level is just going to continue to make prices rise until the inevitable crash. Sickening fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:Okay so, get this. Pokemon has playable decks that I am pretty sure are tournament legal that are A) Played by pro players and 2) are tier 1 standard meta game decks. Pokemon may actually better to get into as a player friendly game. Strategy is much less than Magic, but you can actually buy any Tier 1 pro deck for like a 100 or so tops. My kid and I can watch a tournament and then build and actually have fun playing those decks we saw.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:Okay so, get this. Pokemon has playable decks that I am pretty sure are tournament legal that are A) Played by pro players and 2) are tier 1 standard meta game decks. They used to do this with World Championship decks, but of course they were gold bordered because....
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
GonSmithe posted:Going to play so many of these Biggest expectation is they have some unpaid intern do the list importation and he important both a twin and Bloom Titan deck with their respective banned cards. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:Okay so, get this. Pokemon has playable decks that I am pretty sure are tournament legal that are A) Played by pro players and 2) are tier 1 standard meta game decks. I could see my friends and I buying these to play a pro night or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:43
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:That is part of the problem with the price of staples. People know they're staples. They acquire them, and many people acquire extras to hold onto because they know the cards have long term value. People like me will trade standard playable junk into modern playable cards alllll day long. That has some affect on the price by making the cards less available. There was a lot of KTK opened. You can tell that from the fact that nothing in that set is worth poo poo aside from fetches. Fetches did drop in price, and now have doubled up from the bottom already while KTK is still in print. Its real hard to print staples in a way that lowers their price in any long term fashion, and doesn't inflate the price of other cards. If 10 cards in a modern deck go from $500 to $100, may people will try to build that deck, which creates demand on the cards that didn't get printed, which raises their price. To "fix it" you'd have to essentially print the entire contents of a deck to kill the value of the whole thing at the same time, and print it into the ground so it never gets back up again. Pretty sure they're not going to do that, so the price of modern will never get cheaper as long as the demand for it exists. Well, Modern is probably a bad example since a lot of staple cards beyond just lands have got an artificial stranglehold on their supply (everything from Command and Clique to recent thread topic du jour Inquisition of Kozilek), so you would somehow keep those in print every couple of years as well, if you were trying to financially fix the format. But take something like four-color Rally in standard, say a version that plays 4 Jace and 4 Rally. Jace is $50 and Rally is $2. If you somehow create the conditions for Jace to drop to $20, Rally will probably rise a bit, but I'm pretty sure it won't rise by $30. I'm pretty sure it won't even rise to $20 itself. Part of the reason why this is the case is that Jace is played in several different decks, per format, in multiple formats, while Rally is really only played in one deck in one format. Which is related to what Sickening is says here: Sickening posted:For cards to effectively go down in price the concentration of good chase cards in a set has to be higher than what WOTC has been comfortable with recently in standard sets. Right now the prices of sealed product are concentrated into about 1-4 cards for standard sets. A khans box is basically valued at the 4 fetches, origins is all in jace, and the rest with a handful of multi-format playables. Once innistrad is out and the power level is still not there I expect prices to jump even more. Only one deck wants to play Rally, and seemingly only one or two decks want to play Siege Rhino (also a $2 card) but a bunch more decks want to play Jace. And pretty much all the decks want to play all the rare lands at this point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
Cactrot posted:They used to do this with World Championship decks, but of course they were gold bordered because.... I forgot, Pokemon actually sell champion decks each year. They are not tournament legal because they have a different back. However, you get a complete deck for 15$, so there is an option for people who want to try decks for fun or to see if they like them before moving on to buy the legal cards. Imagine being able to pay Wizards instead of black market for a high quality casual product.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
Sickening posted:For cards to effectively go down in price the concentration of good chase cards in a set has to be higher than what WOTC has been comfortable with recently in standard sets. Right now the prices of sealed product are concentrated into about 1-4 cards for standard sets. A khans box is basically valued at the 4 fetches, origins is all in jace, and the rest with a handful of multi-format playables. Once innistrad is out and the power level is still not there I expect prices to jump even more. Sure, i'm saying the same thing effectively. I'm just not sure, given that the people buying cards, magic players, effectively don't seem to care what the price is. Despite all the complaining about prices, the cards are selling. How many reprints is enough to stop the lower this raise that effect? Pretty safe to say the answer is "way more than WOTC will ever do"
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
Yeah they should have never stopped doing the World Champion decks, those were sweet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:Sure, i'm saying the same thing effectively. I'm just not sure, given that the people buying cards, magic players, effectively don't seem to care what the price is. Despite all the complaining about prices, the cards are selling. How many reprints is enough to stop the lower this raise that effect? Pretty safe to say the answer is "way more than WOTC will ever do" Typically things needs a standard sized printing to come down to a reasonable level. While khans was the current set every fetch was a reasonable pickup. If khans had other reprints in the set, say 6-10, that had real modern value the prices of fetches would still be 10-15 bucks. Standar power level is a real concern and dumping modern staple power level into standard may not be the best result. Modern master however is something that could be so easily exploited for both profit and game longevity but simply hasn't at this point to a level that makes any real impact. I feel like modern masters sets could be somewhere in the middle of what it is now and a MTGO cube set and both make a lot of money and keep the player base happy. The print run would have to be near standard sized for it to have any real meaningful, lasting affect though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
don't people who buy/use proxy cards get shunned usually if you go to FNM or something?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
Powerful cards in standard are fun. Every card legal in modern was legal in standard at one point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:02
|
|
|
If Modern Masters only cost like $7 a pack instead of $10 and was printed enough to actually be sold at MSRP, then it might actually do something to impact Modern prices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
DigitalMocking posted:don't people who buy/use proxy cards get shunned usually if you go to FNM or something? I don't believe you are allowed to use proxies at FNM. You can only use proxies at unsanctioned events (casual). Saying that, if a proxy card can only be detected as a proxy by a jewelers loupe outside a sleeve than who is going to know?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Chairman Pow! posted:Pokemon may actually better to get into as a player friendly game. Strategy is much less than Magic, but you can actually buy any Tier 1 pro deck for like a 100 or so tops. My kid and I can watch a tournament and then build and actually have fun playing those decks we saw. This is the problem with all games that aren't Magic. Yeah I could play Hearthstone or whatever for much cheaper, but its not as fun or deep or intricate as Magic is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:06
|
|
|
Terrible Horse posted:This is the problem with all games that aren't Magic. Yeah I could play Hearthstone or whatever for much cheaper, but its not as fun or deep or intricate as Magic is. Play games that aren't CCG's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Terrible Horse posted:This is the problem with all games that aren't Magic. Yeah I could play Hearthstone or whatever for much cheaper, but its not as fun or deep or intricate as Magic is. Well, no, there are a ton of games for cheaper that implement a lot of strategy just as well if not better than Magic in a lot of areas. Heck, even Richard Garfield said that Magic had too much decided on how the deck was built beforehand and not enough on the decisions within the game and proceeded to make NetRunner. Just go do some research. Ramos fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
So in upcoming set chat - Rosewater mentioned on his blog that poison was the mechanic with the longest return time - 15 years not including TSP - but that another mechanic was returning within the next few years (0-3) that *might* take that record. e; It's explicitly not banding. So, what could it be? This is the stuff in the right time range - Cumulative Upkeep 2006 (10 years) - A contender, but 10 years isn't really close to 15. Plus, upkeep costs haven't really been a thing in general recently. Fading 2000 (16 years) - Possible, but last I heard they didn't like fading because players didn't notice that they were getting an undercosted thing, just that it felt bad that it didn't stick around. Madness 2002 (14 years) - Lots of really weird rules issues Recover 2006 (10 years) - Again, 10 isn't 15, but has interesting graveyard synergies. Ripple 2004 (12 years) - COOOOOLD SNAAAAAP Yeah no way this one is it but I can hope, ok? Out of all of these, rules issues aside, it does actually seem like Madness has the best chance to be the returning mechanic. I could see Recover or Fading as well but I'd place them below Madness in terms of player excitement for a returning mechanic. I just hope it's after processors rotate. Skyl3lazer fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Powerful cards in standard are fun. Every card legal in modern was legal in standard at one point. On top of that, cards basically don't have power levels in a vacuum, it matters away more what's around them. Dig Through Time is a perfect example: extremely ban worthy in eternal, hardly sees play in standard right now. They could dump a LOT of modern staples into standard and they wouldn't be degenerate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
Skyl3lazer posted:So in upcoming set chat - It's Banding Edit: gently caress, it's been 16 years since Fading? I remember winning so many games with Saproling Burst... I'm old 
sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Powerful cards in standard are fun. Every card legal in modern was legal in standard at one point. I agree with you. The problem is that these high power level cards weren't always surrounded by other powerful stuff in the set they were printed. New jace is an example. Lets take old innistrad. Here are the money cards right now. Liliana of the Veil 99 Snapcaster Mage 63 Geist of Saint Traft 13 Past in Flames 13 Sulfur Falls 12 Stony Silence 12 Olivia Voldaren 10 As you can see, when you get past the first two cards it drops in price pretty severally. If this set was currently in standard card for card, everything past snaps would be pretty loving low and a box would be valued at 70% of what snap and lily would cost. Printing this set in standard for shadows would decrease the price of lily and snapcaster for about a year or two, but then it would just go up again. WOTC is in a position to look at what was powerful and popular in these previous sets and balance the set around reprinting them. Shadows for instantance could include these cards. Liliana of the Veil Snapcaster Mage Cavern of Souls blood moon Avacyn, Angel of Hope Griselbrand Craterhoof Behemoth Huntmaster of the Fells ETC Lily and snapcaster would still be your most expensive cards, but the power level of those below it would balance the price of the sealed box more. The more cards are equal in power level, new or reprinted, the healthier the price of the set are. The more jam packed a set is the longer prices stay reasonable. This just involves a design philosophy they aren't comfortable with anymore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
Griselbrand is dead in-story so he can literally be never reprinted ever in any circumstances because of flavor and his ban from commander.
Orange Fluffy Sheep fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 05:53 |
|
|
Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:griselbrand is dead in-story so he can literally be never reprinted ever in any circumstances because of flavor and his ban from commander. Another reason why uncharted realms and the books were a blight on the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:19
|
|