|
I think the elephant in the room is that multiple world governments wanted Assange to disappear. Especially after the helicopter gun cam leak where they shot a load of kids. This isn't a normal rape case. This is the only rape case where I don't automatically side with the victim. Because there are possible politically motives at play. Instead i'm left wondering if i'll ever know the truth. Then again if he really did lie about using a condom and thinks it's no big deal then ugh. Can we agree that if he ends up shipped off to America then something might be amiss?
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 08:12 |
|
|
thehustler posted:You can do that in Sweden? jesus. In specific circumstances. Such as if you tell someone you don't need protection because you're sterile when that's not true. In cases like that the partner can retroactively withdraw consent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:This is the only rape case where I don't automatically side with the victim. So in other words "rape is bad, unless it's politically convenient to assume the bitch is lying."
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:it comes down to not using a condom. Edit: Apologies - I was getting confused between the three different intercourses. Prince John fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Feb 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
Prince John posted:Interestingly, 75% of British turkeys and 25% of British chickens are now killed by Controlled Atmosphere Systems which sounds vastly more humane and reliable than decapitation or all of the dodgy aspects in practice of electrical stunning. The stunning is permitted by halal as long as it's still the blade that kills them, so any that do die during the stunning have to be sold as non-halal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:31
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:So in other words "rape is bad, unless it's politically convenient to assume the bitch is lying." interesting choice of words to put in his mouth
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
If anyone has a link to the quote where he explicitly agrees with the victims version of events that he said he was using a condom but didn't then surely that would settle this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:38
|
|
|
Assange needs to go to court in Sweden, what is the alternative? Does he get a 'get out of jail free' card because he is wanted by the US?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Jose posted:interesting choice of words to put in his mouth Interesting choice of motive to put in her vagina.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
thehustler posted:You can do that in Sweden? jesus. It's there so that you can't pressure someone into sleeping with you and then go "but she said yes" afterwards, which is pretty reasonable. In any case Assange is pretty clearly a rapist by his own admission, but the case is muddled enough that he probably wouldn't be convicted even if he would face trial. Regarde Aduck posted:I think the elephant in the room is that multiple world governments wanted Assange to disappear. Especially after the helicopter gun cam leak where they shot a load of kids. This isn't a normal rape case. This is the only rape case where I don't automatically side with the victim. Because there are possible politically motives at play. Instead i'm left wondering if i'll ever know the truth. You should always side with the victim unless very compelling evidence surfaces that casts doubt on their claims. Luckily the facts of the case are not under serious dispute here. Seriously mate, while I agree that there is a clear political dimension to this case, this clearly isn't some kind of honeypot operation that tricked the poor man.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:43
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:Yes, I'm sure the Swedish leftists were actually American CIA plants who used their hoover vaginas to suck in his penis to cry rape so that America could chuck him in Gitmo. Remember those cases where members of the esteemed metropolitan police force infiltrated environmentalist groups and had long term relationships. This sort of thing van happen, not saying it did but the USA loving hates Assange
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:44
|
|
|
Syncopated posted:Assange needs to go to court in Sweden, what is the alternative? Does he get a 'get out of jail free' card because he is wanted by the US? He's in the same situation as someone who has been accused of a crime in the immediate aftermath of pissing off a large and powerful organized crime family. He needs to go to trial but it's not unreasonable for the judge to demand special measures, and not unreasonable for the accused to be wary about an appearance until those are in place.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:In specific circumstances. Such as if you tell someone you don't need protection because you're sterile when that's not true. In cases like that the partner can retroactively withdraw consent. Oh ok that makes sense actually
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
Zephro posted:Wait, I missed this too. What happened? He died fairly suddenly at the age of 25
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:46
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:He died fairly suddenly at the age of 25 RIP Fluo
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
I agree that the amount of time and effort put into this case is clearly political in nature, but dropping the "rape is awful" principle because it doesn't fit your political narrative is as gross as the people dismissing the victims in Cologne just because racists tried to co-opt them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:49
|
|
|
Syncopated posted:Assange needs to go to court in Sweden, what is the alternative? Does he get a 'get out of jail free' card because he is wanted by the US? The judgement means the UN thinks he should be able to leave the Embassy under its protection and go to Ecuador. It doesn't mean Sweden can't prosecute him, just that the UK shouldn't be trapping people in embassies under threat of an arrest if they leave. It's not surprising they'd come to this decision, but the UK has maintained it does not recognize the idea that people can be granted asylum at an Embassy, which is also why Asylum seekers can't just rock up to a British Embassy in any country and ask to come to Britain.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Assange's own defence summarised the acts as: Trigger warning. What with the rape and all. "He described Assange as penetrating one woman while she slept without a condom, in defiance of her previously expressed wishes, before arguing that because she subsequently “consented to … continuation” of the act of intercourse, the incident as a whole must be taken as consensual. In the other incident, in which Assange is alleged to have held a woman down against her will during a sexual encounter, Emmerson offered this summary: “[The complainant] was lying on her back and Assange was on top of her … [she] felt that Assange wanted to insert his penis into her vagina directly, which she did not want since he was not wearing a condom … she therefore tried to turn her hips and squeeze her legs together in order to avoid a penetration … [she] tried several times to reach for a condom, which Assange had stopped her from doing by holding her arms and bending her legs open and trying to penetrate her with his penis without using a condom. [She] says that she felt about to cry since she was held down and could not reach a condom and felt this could end badly.”" He's a loving rapist. Yes, governments have a really strong reason to wish every conceivable ill on him, and the organisation he is strongly associated with has been a fantastic pain in the side to so many evil shits, but he's still a rapist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:They're stunned by inert gas, usually argon, but they're still killed by a big rotating or oscillating blade. Interesting, the RSPCA says that they have to be killed rather than stunned under CAS according to UK law. quote:Controlled Atmosphere Systems This was the kind of process I was referring to. The PETA description I was reading from here. quote:CAK removes oxygen from the birds’ atmosphere while they are still in their transport crates. The birds are not “gassed” (i.e., asphyxiated); they die from lack of oxygen, or anoxia. During this process, the oxygen from the chickens’ environment is removed and slowly replaced with a nonpoisonous gas that puts the birds to sleep while they are still in their transport crates. CAK eliminates the numerous animal welfare, economic, and worker-safety issues associated with electric immobilization Some of the other poo poo described on that page is  though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:They're stunned by inert gas, usually argon, but they're still killed by a big rotating or oscillating blade. Inert gas asphyxiation is the way forward for everything imho
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:You should always side with the victim unless very compelling evidence surfaces that casts doubt on their claims.. What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:He needs to go to court in Sweden, but the US needs to be kept at arms length from this. Assange's demands are designed to Stonewall the British and Swedish authorities until the statute of limitations expires. Sweden can't legally guarantee absolutely no extradition to the US because it would be prejudging any proceedings in the future. Besides, he would be safer in Sweden as their extradition treaty with the US isn't as lopsided (and prohibits extradition for political purposes). It should be once pointed out again that, on a point of law, the extradition judgment found that consent to sexual activity can be vitiated by deception with regards to condom use. It's actually a key part of rape case law now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:I agree that the amount of time and effort put into this case is clearly political in nature, but dropping the "rape is awful" principle because it doesn't fit your political narrative is as gross as the people dismissing the victims in Cologne just because racists tried to co-opt them. Rape is awful but Assange hasn't been convicted and clearly this is an unusual case all round. Personally i think being one of the most wanted people by America you would be super careful about being an absolute gentleman when sleeping with people, or even avoiding sleeping with strangers because they might be agents. Assange does seem like an egotistical prick but he did great work
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
It's not like WikiLeaks even needs Assange around, it has other people on staff who are perfectly capable of running it. All he's doing is permanently associating any leaks with "oh by the way WikiLeaks founder and still-current staff member Rapey Assange is still hiding in an embassy, let's talk about that instead of the horrific corruption that was uncovered."
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
Praseodymi posted:What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? Yes, why do you feel the alleged rape victim is guilty of libel?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
Praseodymi posted:What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? Wait, since when am I a court of law?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
Who's counter protesting pegida this weekend?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
So as I see it he's an admitted rapist and it also strikes me that he's using the threat if extradition thing as an excuse to not face trial for rape.
StoneOfShame fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 15:58
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Wait, since when am I a court of law? Fair enough, I just assumed. Tesseraction posted:Yes, why do you feel the alleged rape victim is guilty of libel? How did you come up with this from my post?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
StoneOfShame posted:So as I see its an admitted rapist and it also strikes me that he's using the threat if extradition thing as an excuse to not face trial for rape. If he does he's a loving dumbass since he'd likely get aquitted, and even if he were convincted he's already been under virtual house arrest for longer than the sentence that he would most likely have gotten in Sweden.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:04
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:If he does he's a loving dumbass since he'd likely get aquitted, and even if he were convincted he's already been under virtual house arrest for longer than the sentence that he would most likely have gotten in Sweden. Wait, why would he get acquitted?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:If he does he's a loving dumbass since he'd likely get aquitted, and even if he were convincted he's already been under virtual house arrest for longer than the sentence that he would most likely have gotten in Sweden. well but his concern is not being found guilty or not in sweden, it's about being extradited to the USA from sweden
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
So what was the UN's reasoning for siding with Assange? Obviously they believe there's been some misconduct on the part of the U.K. or Swedish governments.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
Chomskyan posted:So what was the UN's reasoning for siding with Assange? Obviously they believe there's been some misconduct on the part of the U.K. or Swedish governments. They won't say until Friday as this is a leaked decision. But I'm guessing the UN doesn't want nations to trap people in Embassies, because that's kind of going against what Embassies are meant to represent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
StoneOfShame posted:Wait, why would he get acquitted? Because he's a wealthy and famous white dude and the case is muddled enough for "he said, she said" bullshit to be an effective defense strategy. JFairfax posted:well but his concern is not being found guilty or not in sweden, it's about being extradited to the USA from sweden This seems more probable, yes. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:I went to hear Rimsky Korsakov's Vespers in St Isaacs, was well looking forward to it until I realised I'd signed up for an hour and a half of choral music. You philistine. Seriously though, what did you expect it to be?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Because he's a wealthy white dude and the case is muddled enough for "he said, she said" bullshit to be an effective defense strategy. I agree that he's probably guilty, but "he said, she said" trials (with no other evidence) ending in a not guilty verdict are an essential result of a just criminal justice system, for obvious reasons. Judging by the quoted stuff from his lawyer, he's not denying the physical actions, simply whether it's considered rape under Swedish law. It should just be a slam dunk in that case - there is no 'he said, she said', just a question of law to consider. Prince John fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Feb 4, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:This seems more probable, yes. that's his stated reason for not going back to sweden, if I recall correctly he even offered to be interviewed at the embassy by swedish law enforcement
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:18
|
|
|
This is despite the fact that any extradition to the US while he's in Swedish custody would require a trilateral agreement.Chomskyan posted:So what was the UN's reasoning for siding with Assange? Obviously they believe there's been some misconduct on the part of the U.K. or Swedish governments. UNHRC has always been a bit weird, because the seats are distributed by countries in each reason. There are a lot of African and Middle Eastern countries on the council with a completely understandable grudge against America. The size of its membership means that it's not particularly hard to get on the council; hell, Libya was in while they were suspended from the Arab League and the UNSC authorised military intervention in the Civil War. Ecuador are also a current member of UNHRC, for what it's worth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 08:12 |
|
|
Wasn't one of Assange's points of defence that he was victim of a conspiracy of 'radical feminists' (including the Judge)? He's clearly a rapist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2016 16:23
|
|
