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Bad Seafood posted:Well that went better than expected.  I love it when I have firewood or food left over after a boss fight. I get to treat my heroes to a little impromptu picnic before they head back home.
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Feb 4, 2016 08:09
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I have 3 level 6 houndmasters and I've used Dog treats exactly twice.  Granted I mostly use them as tanks but still...
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Feb 4, 2016 08:17
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I keep wanting to mount an expedition into the Warrens to kill the Swine King, but the final member of the party keeps getting drunk and going on benders and disappearing into the night. The mission's been delayed a whole month now. Least it's given me time to break in the newbies and scrounge up some additional funding. Been awhile since I lost anybody though, so I feel like I'm playing a lot smarter than I used to - though I'll probably lose somebody to the veteran-tier Prophet. Something else I'll say: I've had very little incentive to hit the Cove lately. It's probably the hardest of the four core dungeons but the loot isn't enticing enough to make me want to go down there.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:14
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Holy poo poo I think two hours just vanished. I've been building an army of emotionally broken death machines and I've finally cleared the gutters. Two bosses per area with 3 strength grades each. Edit: Cove rocks cause you get to treat negative quirks for free.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:31
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"Wow, the difficulty ramp going into Veteran dungeons is steeper than I remember." "Wow, I'm not seeing many skeletons in this area, maybe double Crusader was a bad call." "I should have brought a healer..." "Okay, but I've got 2 of the 3 altars purified. If I can make it to the last one, then I win the mission and can flee, and there's only two fights between there and here."  RIP my Arbalast, Grave Robber, and one of my two Crusaders.
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Feb 4, 2016 10:21
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I've been poking at the cost files for stuff and am just about finished with a trio of mods if somebody's interested.
   Turned out to be remarkably easy to do but the game can get a bit finicky if the files aren't exactly right so I'll have to test them a bit more to make sure all the class upgrades work and so forth. But it seems to all work just fine and there's only one minor display issue that I found (one which I might even be able to fix, you can see how the cost display positions aren't quite aligned with the frames).
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Feb 4, 2016 10:31
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FreeKillB posted:Hot of the presses: according to one of the devs in twitch chat, they're going to roll back the most recent 15% XP threshold changes. Hope they got other changes planned, the endgame grind is really awful right now and even that 15% barely helped with it.
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Feb 4, 2016 11:32
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Elman posted:Hope they got other changes planned, the endgame grind is really awful right now and even that 15% barely helped with it. I'm not sure what else they could do without fundamentally changing how the game is "meant" to be played. The best suggestion I've seen, and (to be fair) the one that I'd like to see implemented, would be to start offering only level 3 heroes once you beat all the Apprentice bosses (and stop offering Apprentice missions), and then do the same again when you beat all the Veteran bosses. The problem with that would be that it changes the bosses from optional goals (albeit optional goals everyone seems to go for) into absolutely vital missions that you have to do in order to save yourself from late-game grind. It would also seriously dull the threat level of the Darkest Dungeon itself. The difference between level 5 and 6 isn't exactly huge, and if you only got level 5 heroes on the stagecoach after you beat all the Veteran bosses, you could pretty easily just throw dudes into the Darkest Dungeon meat grinder without a care in the world. Maybe just make level 3 the baseline for stagecoach heroes, and don't do the jump up to level 5? Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 14:08
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Bad Seafood posted:The villagers didn't take too kindly to his cosmic ambitions and the local police detachment proved too honorable to accept bribes so he hired some thugs skilled in the art of physical persuasion to keep prying eyes away from the manor. The third part of the story is that the Ancestors mercenaries use their cannons to cull the townsfolk down to compliance. After the Ancestor offs himself I assume they stick around to terrorize anybody passing through.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:30
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Harrow posted:I'm not sure what else they could do without fundamentally changing how the game is "meant" to be played. The best suggestion I've seen, and (to be fair) the one that I'd like to see implemented, would be to start offering only level 3 heroes once you beat all the Apprentice bosses (and stop offering Apprentice missions), and then do the same again when you beat all the Veteran bosses. The problem with that would be that it changes the bosses from optional goals (albeit optional goals everyone seems to go for) into absolutely vital missions that you have to do in order to save yourself from late-game grind. Well they could give you something to do with heirlooms after you've fully upgraded everything (say, you spend a few heirlooms to boost your new recruits from lvl0 to 3, or to get bonus XP or gold from your missions). They can do it in a lot of ways, really. But they gotta do something, right now the late game grind is just not reasonable.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:10
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Elman posted:Hope they got other changes planned, the endgame grind is really awful right now and even that 15% barely helped with it. With the new change, one party of my level 5s went to level 6 with a single Long dungeon. I think the changes are pretty good for at least Champion guys. Unless you mean the other grind of the hamlet for the final upgrades which I understand. I'm just hoping that when it changes back, it doesn't gently caress up my file to have guys that are back to level 4 who happened to have level 5 gear/skills while temporarily leveled up.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:11
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Harrow posted:I'm not sure what else they could do without fundamentally changing how the game is "meant" to be played. The best suggestion I've seen, and (to be fair) the one that I'd like to see implemented, would be to start offering only level 3 heroes once you beat all the Apprentice bosses (and stop offering Apprentice missions), and then do the same again when you beat all the Veteran bosses. The problem with that would be that it changes the bosses from optional goals (albeit optional goals everyone seems to go for) into absolutely vital missions that you have to do in order to save yourself from late-game grind. Having a faster way to throw guys at the Darkest Dungeon wouldn't actually change the difficulty content of the dungeon itself. It would make the whole end game way less tedious though.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:18
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Elman posted:Hope they got other changes planned, the endgame grind is really awful right now and even that 15% barely helped with it. It seems clear that they recognize the problem and are trying to come up with the right solution. The 15% change just wasn't that solution (because it was dumb).
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Feb 4, 2016 16:30
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Elman posted:Well they could give you something to do with heirlooms after you've fully upgraded everything (say, you spend a few heirlooms to boost your new recruits from lvl0 to 3, or to get bonus XP or gold from your missions). That might be a good idea--let players use heirlooms to boost heroes up a few levels, maybe. Megasabin posted:Having a faster way to throw guys at the Darkest Dungeon wouldn't actually change the difficulty content of the dungeon itself. It would make the whole end game way less tedious though. It wouldn't reduce the difficulty, but it would reduce the risk, and I think that would be a net loss. Under most circumstances I would agree with you, I really would, but not in the context of this particular game. I think that without the feeling of "I really can't afford to lose here," the game loses something. And to have that feeling, there has to be something at stake. If you can just get more high-level guys immediately, slap your trinkets on them, and go for it, Darkest Dungeon runs would be no more tense than level 0 suicide runs. It'd be like Dark Souls without dropping your souls on death. They need a way to reduce the time investment for building up new heroes in the late-game, but I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate it entirely. Maybe the way to go would be to keep the existing XP boost, but implement some sort of subtle down-scaling system that would let you bring higher-level heroes on lower-level runs without trivializing them. It might come across as an "artificial" mechanic, but frankly, the "I won't do this easy milk run" thing already kind of feels that way. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 16:39
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Harrow posted:It'd be like Dark Souls without dropping your souls on death. Ooh I'll bite! In DS when you're doing boss exploratory runs, you're doing them with no expectation of survival anyway, so the It's something the more recent games have (usually) improved, with much closer checkpoints and shortcuts near them, but on the ones that don't, you just get a really tiresome reload, run, run, run, fight, reload, repeat loop that loving blows. Definitely one of my least favorite parts of the souls series, and any game with a similar style of checkpointing. It's a line between 'this is gameplay, and part of the game, have fun and/or deal with it' vs 'this is a pointless grind that is not fun, and extends the gameplay in a really unpleasant manner'. I'm not sure they quite nailed the former here.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:46
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Harrow posted:They need a way to reduce the time investment for building up new heroes in the late-game, but I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate it entirely. How about the reverse? Bringing higher level heroes to lower level does nothing to help lower level heroes level up faster just to level up safer. Lower level heroes level up way more in higher level dungeons and you can even currently bring them there. Since some find that super risky and that you shouldn't ever do it, how about they have a special trinket much like the Torch Trinket rewards from the first Darkest Dungeon run that gives +100% PROT and -100% Stress DMG vs. Higher level enemies. It doesn't completely protect the guy just like those torch trinkets do, but it means you won't have a major liability in place of a capable fourth member that is only a minor liability. Maybe a reward for each round of bosses you kill? 50% numbers on the veteran version of the trinket? Lyrax fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 16:55
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victrix posted:Ooh I'll bite! I agree that they haven't nailed the balance yet, but I think the essential risk is necessary, and for there to be risk, players have to stand to actually lose something. When I talk about dropping souls in Dark Souls (or, for a more player-friendly example, dropping blood echoes in Bloodborne, with its often more accessible shortcuts) I'm not really referring to the run back to the boss: I'm referring to the risk that you might lose something when you die. If Darkest Dungeon were too willing to give you back everything you lost after a failed run, I think it would lose all of its tension, and tension is pretty vital for this game. When I take high-level heroes on a difficult run, I want to feel like losing them is a big deal because I've invested so much in them. If I could just replace them with a hero one level lower right away, I don't think I'd care nearly as much. Lyrax posted:How about the reverse? Bringing higher level heroes to lower level does nothing to help lower level heroes level up faster just to level up safer. Lower level heroes level up way more in higher level dungeons and you can even currently bring them there. Since some find that super risky and that you shouldn't ever do it, how about they have a special trinket much like the Torch Trinket rewards from the first Darkest Dungeon run that gives +100% PROT and -100% Stress DMG vs. Higher level enemies. It doesn't completely protect the guy just like those torch trinkets do, but it means you won't have a major liability in place of a capable fourth member that is only a minor liability. Maybe a reward for each round of bosses you kill? 50% numbers on the veteran version of the trinket? Something to that effect might work. Hell, to go back to my original suggestion: you can take higher-level heroes to lower-level runs, and they get scaled down. In return, lower-level heroes are "inspired" and gain extra resolve XP for fighting alongside a stronger hero. Not only can you take higher-level heroes on lower-level runs, but it'll help your other heroes level up a lot faster. I think I'd prefer that to an uber-trinket like that, if only because it'd be much harder to gently caress up the balance.
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Feb 4, 2016 17:04
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So is there a known bug where a perfectly healthy, normal hero will just arbitrarily be dead upon returning to town? A Man-At-Arms I was grooming was at full health and like 15 stress with the Courageous Virtue active, was just straight up dead on the mission complete screen. edit: oh man, both the really good trinkets I had on him are gone too, this is the bug that keeps on giving!
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Feb 4, 2016 17:23
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Check the graveyard, what does it say happened to him? Did you kill the drowned crew while that character was anchored down maybe?
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Feb 4, 2016 17:28
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Harrow posted:Something to that effect might work. The other problem with that is that the rewards are much higher on higher level dungeons. The kind of rewards you need to buff up heroes and buildings in the end game. The fact of the matter is, the kind of solution for grinding level 0 guys up to level 6 for safe DD visits already exists in-game through taking lower level heroes to higher level dungeons as they get a lot of XP and you get to use your full Hamlet and get better rewards. The problem is no one wants to do it because it is really risky and a liability, not that they can't use their heroes to level up the one low level guy because they already can by doing this. I already thought of how my trinket idea could be abused by safe players by bringing at least one level 5 guy into the Darkest Dungeon wearing it and he's pretty safe. I guess make it 100% if resolve 0-2 and 50% if resolve 3-4. Once again, tying it to boss completion so you can't abuse it against them. Because ultimately, it's kind of about how players can abuse the system for safe and efficient play which they've done their best to discourage through the awkward systems of corpses and higher level heroes not able to go to lower dungeons. It needs more systems that encourage and reward dangerous play like the Torch levels. Maybe lower level heroes get 150% resolve gain for going into a dungeon they beg not to considering they already have the penalty of being really bad and having tons of stress going in and the distance between resolve levels is apparently big enough.
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Feb 4, 2016 17:32
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Kly posted:Check the graveyard, what does it say happened to him? Graveyard says he was killed by the last thing we fought, that being a stunlocked Pelagic Guardian whose one attack whiffed against the MAA.  This has to be a bug, then. I beat the sodden crew by just stunning the anchor dude for two turns, then killing it, rinse repeat, while my plague doctor stacked blight on the main crew and the rest of the team occasionally whacked them. After beating them I went around clearing out the rest of the level, checking for secret rooms, etc, ending at the fight where apparently the MAA died from nothing Like I threw away my food halfway through the run because the enemies just weren't doing any damage before dying, and my occultist would heal anything that they did, and everyone crit often enough that stress wasn't an issue either, since it's a low-level run. Whereabouts would I go to report this? He went from full health to gone alongside a Tough Ring and that very rare item that gives you prot + max hp. I can raise another MAA, but losing those trinkets is bullshit. Also, is there a way to edit the save file to get the trinkets back, by any chance, or cheatengine, or something? Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 17:36
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Someone reported a character dying of a DoT on mission completion somewhere, so it isn't just you. He wasn't suffering from an active bleed/blight effect, was he? Had he, at any point in the dungeon, received a bleed?
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Feb 4, 2016 17:38
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During the boss fight, yeah. But not during that last fight. So basically, leaving the mission with an active DOT(or maybe ever having one prior???) means a character can die? That's a pretty rough bug!
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Feb 4, 2016 17:41
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That's not how it's supposed to work, I just know from seeing threads on their forum that you aren't the only person this has happened to.
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Feb 4, 2016 17:44
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darkest dungeon continues to mercilessly own captain invictus working as intended, won'tfix
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Feb 4, 2016 18:24
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Captain Invictus posted:Whereabouts would I go to report this? He went from full health to gone alongside a Tough Ring and that very rare item that gives you prot + max hp. I can raise another MAA, but losing those trinkets is bullshit. There isn't a way to edit your save file that I know of. You can mod the trinket vendor to have a higher chance to bring in very rare trinkets, but you'd need the coin to get them (or edit the price of trinkets and make them dirt cheap).
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Feb 4, 2016 18:28
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Kly posted:Check the graveyard, what does it say happened to him?
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Feb 4, 2016 19:13
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I remember killing the apprentice crew with a character anchored down who survived, so I don't think that's how it's supposed to go.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:35
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Does anyone have tips for the endgame dungeon party compositions? I beat the first level, and am not keen on grinding heroes if I fail foolishly again.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:37
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pokie posted:Does anyone have tips for the endgame dungeon party compositions? I beat the first level, and am not keen on grinding heroes if I fail foolishly again. The second mission is by far the hardest, so you just generally want to stack your party with your best; you can get through the rest of the game on your dregs. Having a character with guard is helpful (you'll notice you got 3 protective trinkets from the first mission, which means someone has to go without.) High damage is extremely important, it's much more of a damage race than the missions following it.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:44
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Gabriel Pope posted:The second mission is by far the hardest, so you just generally want to stack your party with your best; you can get through the rest of the game on your dregs. Having a character with guard is helpful (you'll notice you got 3 protective trinkets from the first mission, which means someone has to go without.) High damage is extremely important, it's much more of a damage race than the missions following it. Do you recall the composition you used? I think I got every class leveled to 6.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:48
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pokie posted:Does anyone have tips for the endgame dungeon party compositions? I beat the first level, and am not keen on grinding heroes if I fail foolishly again. Use all three of the talismans of flame on DDQ2. You don't need them later. They protect you from a move the minibosses use. The Man-at-Arms is the best tank for this mission. His counterattack is very good against the bosses, and his bodyguard ability can protect the one character without a talisman. Marking heroes like the Bounty Hunter and Arbalest are likely your best option. The Houndmaster is also good, but only if he's complimenting one of those other two; he doesn't hit hard enough on his own. I did Houndmaster / Occultist / Abomination / Man-at-Arms. It just didn't cut it; not enough damage, and while the Abomination really hauled rear end he also caused afflictions late into the level.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:55
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Bring a Man-at-Arms to the second raid on the DD. The main issue in the second raid is immense damage. The trinkets from the first raid will help three characters against the most damaging attack but the fourth is outta luck unless you have someone to guard them. Mitigating damage in general is important to surviving because even with the trinkets the bosses hit hard and there's four of them across three fights including an infamous double fight that some people consider the hardest in the entire sequence. The third raid is more about endurance, bring a self-sustaining group that can keep going a long while. Fourth is just a boss fight but make sure you don't bring anyone you don't mind losing.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:58
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Rascyc posted:Does that really kill a character? i doubt it, i was just guessing at why he may have lost his guy. i know if you run from the fight with some one anchored they die.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:58
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pokie posted:Do you recall the composition you used? I think I got every class leveled to 6. I beat the NG+ version with Arbalest, Arbalest, Houndmaster, MaA so that is obviously the ideal party comp 
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Feb 4, 2016 20:00
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My favorite setup right now is [Healer]/Jester/MaA/Leper. It's so sick. edit: just for like, regular non DD, NG poo poo.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:05
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pokie posted:Do you recall the composition you used? I think I got every class leveled to 6. I used Abomination, Man-at-Arms, Occultist, Arbalest.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:16
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Also in the second darkest dungeon mission for goodness sake get some camping buffs running before you attempt the right-hand boss fight.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:19
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So I just fought the veteran Siren with plague doctor/Arbalest/MaA/Leper, and I'm pretty sure it was the easiest boss fight I've had so far. I stacked debuff resist with holy waters and the arbalest's flare skill, thanks to someone's suggestion in this thread. It worked out great, she didn't even get any of my guys to come to her side until round 6 - my guys just kept dodging or resisting her siren song. She finally got my leper over to her side, but then I killed her before he even got an attack off. I'm hoping the champion siren is a pushover too, but I'm pretty wary of champion bosses, not to mention the much tougher dungeon monsters...
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Feb 4, 2016 20:21
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Mzbundifund posted:Also in the second darkest dungeon mission for goodness sake get some camping buffs running before you attempt the right-hand boss fight. The secret to making that mission significantly easier is to clear a path to two of the bosses before using a campfire. That way you can fight all of the bosses with buffs up, which you need to not die horribly.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:36
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