|
Hob_Gadling posted:Sure, but the choice was between paying it to the company via increased prices or paying it to the state via increased taxes.
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 03:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:21 |
|
|
Hob_Gadling posted:Sure, but the choice was between paying it to the company via increased prices or paying it to the state via increased taxes. I know you won't be satisfied until your rectum is filled with taxes, so there's nothing to discuss about whether one of those would've been better than other. Mulli posted:Point is, the 30% increase in pricing goes a bit overboard which raises some doubt where the money is really going. Assuming that the increase is honest, state could have easily absorbed the price increase temporarily and spread it over longer time, which would have been less awful for poor customers. Also, if the company was operating honestly, is there any specific reason they couldn't have released a general plan about where that money is going? "We need xxx euros to cover infrastructure changes A, costing about yyy, and B, costing about zzz, which were mandated by the government" would have taken a lot of heat off them, as opposed to the "eat poo poo peasants" tactic they used.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 08:09
|
|
|
Puistokemisti posted:"eat poo poo peasants" I think you mean "maan tapa"
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 08:21
|
|
|
The government is going to decide if they're going to allow grocery stores to sell alcohol after 9 PM in the coming weeks. So far the majority of parties is for it. Just so you know, this is important news in Finland.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 12:09
|
|
|
That will never go through, the spirit of the prohibition is still too strong in the Finnish consciousness
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 12:19
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:Yeah that's complete horseshit, isn't it. The "efficiency" comes from screwing over the workers, the environment and pretty much anyone else who isn't a shareholder. I don't give a flying gently caress what some fat corporate rear end in a top hat is making or if his shares just went up by 10%. I do care if our planet will be still here in 20 years time. All essential utilities and transport sector companies should be owned by the public sector. gently caress the profit motive if it comes at the expense of other workers and the environment. Once again, a great "can't tell if serious or not" moment in the thread timeline.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 12:57
|
|
|
vuohi posted:Once again, a great "can't tell if serious or not" moment in the thread timeline. To be honest, I have little hope either way. When our capital's water company got privatized, we got huge price hikes and no increase in quality. They made profits with absolutely insane margins. Then again, our main energy company is owned by the state and they are loving terrible at making business decisions. Every investment project they've engaged in has ended up being a gently caress-up of massive proportions. I'm talking about hundreds of millions lost with NOTHING to show for it. As a rule though, I really believe that all essential fields like utilities and transport should be if not owned by the state, then completely controlled by the state. The devil you know, or the devil who has accountability, rather...
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 13:10
|
|
|
That's a little more reasonable for a fellow pessimist and cynic, if you don't define "utilities" very broadly. Speaking of transport, there was discussion just days ago about the situation that the state has driven our railroads into. The track record for environmentalist issues, which you mentioned, is all around terrible in every single system of ownership until the 70s. Finland used to dump untreated waste water from paper mills straight into rivers, USSR destroyed the Aral sea and much more, and you still can't breathe Chinese air every day if you have lung problems. It is in no way unique for private ownership to treat the environment irresponsibly. I can agree to not trusting corporations, but it baffles me when people blindly trust the state.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 13:33
|
|
|
vuohi posted:I can agree to not trusting corporations, but it baffles me when people blindly trust the state. I sort of agree, but there's a huge difference between the West and the rest of the world. As much as we like to make fun of The Stubb and Incest-Sipilä and the rest of the bunch in this thread, on a global scale Finland is doing extremely well. I mean, it doesn't make everything that's happening in Finland any better, but it extends the graph so that we're pretty much in the top.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
 So Jussi "Hitler"aho is FOR globalization and open borders???
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
Darkest Auer posted:I sort of agree, but there's a huge difference between the West and the rest of the world. As much as we like to make fun of The Stubb and Incest-Sipilä and the rest of the bunch in this thread, on a global scale Finland is doing extremely well. I mean, it doesn't make everything that's happening in Finland any better, but it extends the graph so that we're pretty much in the top. Of course, no disagreements there. I'd go as far as to say that the exact same mechanisms (a functioning civil society, a widespread sense of civic duty, and established methods of voicing grievances) are keeping both our state and our businesses in generally acceptable levels of behaviour. It can be pretty funny when these systems fail, which they sometimes do for various reasons, simple rational ignorance by a majority being my favourite explanation for a lot of things.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
The problem with TTIP is that it gives corporations the power to sue states if they pass laws that are inconvenient. Overall passing it still might be better than not passing it. It's really funny how Hallo-Aho, who rose into power off the back of his blog, is recommending people don't read "verkkomedia".
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
doverhog posted:It's really funny how Hallo-Aho, who rose into power off the back of his blog, is recommending people don't read "verkkomedia".
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:34
|
|
|
Ok that makes more sense.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:36
|
|
|
vuohi posted:He doesn't mean "verkkomedia", he means "Verkkomedia", a proper noun. It is/was a site that publishes hard-hitting journalism about chemtrails, vaccinations and anti-Russian plots. He should have used quotes, or differentiated it more from a common word. What would his language teacher say?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
doverhog posted:The problem with TTIP is that it gives corporations the power to sue states if they pass laws that are inconvenient. "Sue" as in hire a person to make a legally binding decision that's completely out of the normal legal system, and the person hired will not get hired again if they decide against the corporation. It's completely hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:57
|
|
|
doverhog posted:The problem with TTIP is that it gives corporations the power to sue states if they pass laws that are inconvenient. Overall passing it still might be better than not passing it. state doesnt have to care though if somebody sues them. why are african countries and russia for example viewed as risky investments? because they may nationalize private property if that seems like a good thing to do that day and corporations are pretty powerless to do anything about it. okay it's a bit more complicated than that and a slippery slope but the point is state has the monopoly on violence so unless corporations start recruiting their own armies the state can wipe its rear end on any corporation. in principle Fushigi Yuugi fansub fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 14:59
|
|
|
I mean god drat http://www.mtv.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/artikkeli/sahkoverkot-ostaneen-mainosvideo-hankimme-monopoleja-ja-nostamme-hintaa/5723276 quote:Suomen suurimman sähkönjakelijan Carunan toinen pääomistaja on australialainen sijoitusyhtiö First State Investments. Company advertises itself to investors that they will buy infrastructure, jack prices up and make killing profits. Like what the gently caress? How much more blatantly evil can you get? Do they serve meatballs made out of baby seal at company meetings or something?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Fish of hemp posted:I mean god drat It seems to be a trend nowadays - at least in the Anglo-american sphere - to hire or fund assholes in business, especially in disruptive businesses. (Good example of this: Uber.) I half-expect some kind of global French revolution to happen at some point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Rexroom posted:It seems to be a trend nowadays - at least in the Anglo-american sphere - to hire or fund assholes in business, especially in disruptive businesses. (Good example of this: Uber.) I half-expect some kind of global French revolution to happen at some point. dont hold your breath
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
That's what they'll tell the rich before showing their heads under the surface.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 19:16
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
benis :-DDDDDD
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
vuohi posted:That's a little more reasonable for a fellow pessimist and cynic, if you don't define "utilities" very broadly. Speaking of transport, there was discussion just days ago about the situation that the state has driven our railroads into. Speaking of privatisation of rail transport... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958951/Rail-privatisation-disaster-public-sector-start-running-trains-soon-Labour-reveals.html http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/22/privatising-railways-disaster-renationalise-labour When Daily Mail and The Guardian agree on something, you know you done hosed up, son. Fish of hemp posted:Company advertises itself to investors that they will buy infrastructure, jack prices up and make killing profits. At one point the Tallinn water company made some crazy profit margin, like 50% of the revenue was profit or something to that regard. I mean the water is safe but it tastes pretty bad, even after all the "investments". Just capitalism.txt.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2016 23:48
|
|
|
Fish of hemp posted:I mean god drat Jesus christ do you guys ever stop  ing about the smallest things? In Finland the maximum profit on the sector is regulated by the government. The same government you want to run the whole thing.OhYeah posted:Speaking of privatisation of rail transport... Nauta posted:state doesnt have to care though if somebody sues them. why are african countries and russia for example viewed as risky investments? because they may nationalize private property if that seems like a good thing to do that day and corporations are pretty powerless to do anything about it. okay it's a bit more complicated than that and a slippery slope but the point is state has the monopoly on violence so unless corporations start recruiting their own armies the state can wipe its rear end on any corporation. in principle
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:11
|
|
|
Like clockwork. You trying to aim for the PR department?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:Speaking of privatisation of rail transport... It is just absurd that even when 70% of the price of gas in Finland is taxes, it still makes more sense to make a 200-400km trip by car if you have one than to take a train. If there are two people in the car you actually save a lot of money by driving. It is insane that a train from Helsinki to Rovaniemi costs more than the same trip done with a plane. If you care about public transport, and you pay for your own tickets, you have got to admit that VR is absolutely terrible. The carriages are very nice though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
vuohi posted:Whatever happened in Britain doesn't change the fact that every single person that I know, who uses and cares about public transport in Finland, praises Onnibus and the real competition that it introduced to the heavily regulated and costly market of long distance public transportation. Onnibussi is great, when you only need to travel between bigger cities. If you need to go to perähikiä or more importantly out of there, you're screwed in onni-Finland. They're basically kermankuorijoita in the necessary public service sector.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
adhuin posted:Onnibussi is great, when you only need to travel between bigger cities. If you need to go to perähikiä or more importantly out of there, you're screwed in onni-Finland. If you want to subsidize public transport, and often you do, you should do it through taxes and not cross subsidization. The current price system for train/bus tickets is not an acceptable trade-off for having good railway/route network coverage. Public transportation as a whole suffers from it, and car traffic "wins", if anyone does. Also it is not "skimming" if you actually pass the savings to the consumer. vuohi fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
Completely unrelated, I checked hs.fi after having been away from home for most of the day, and I am considering that someone may have spiked my food with LSD or something. Please confirm/disprove my possible delusions. Has someone actually written a whole essay, on the most important daily paper in the country, about something that Susanna Kaukinen said? http://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/a1454653716986
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
Scottish person here saying that Privatization of the railways was the most stupidest thing to ever happen to our railways. Scotsrail is kind of a different mess but the rest of the UK's railway is basically privatised (And soon the UK will be privatised too) And here's a thread for all the poo poo why. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3483456
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
Rexroom posted:Like clockwork. You trying to aim for the PR department? You guys seem pretty fixated on getting at least one angle at this thing where you crying would actually have some merit. Tax dodging, increasing prices, not investing enough, investing too much, not caring about the environment etc. But I realized I forgot this post: Darkest Auer posted:Out of all the neolib 101 talking points, this is the most retarded. No, when a foreign tax-avoiding corporation buys a national asset, they don't include 60 years of lost-to-the-goverment tax income in the deal. quote:30% price increase to something you can't do without is not meaningless. Are you one of those people who have no idea what a carton of milk costs because you have your butlers and servants do all of the shopping for you? adhuin posted:Onnibussi is great, when you only need to travel between bigger cities. If you need to go to perähikiä or more importantly out of there, you're screwed in onni-Finland. Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Feb 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
Extreme0 posted:Scottish person here saying that Privatization of the railways was the most stupidest thing to ever happen to our railways. Scotsrail is kind of a different mess but the rest of the UK's railway is basically privatised (And soon the UK will be privatised too) It's funny how the communist train guy managed to write an entire essay about how bad privatization is and how prices have risen without ever mentioning passenger numbers (I don't have search for later in the thread though) or that he talks about the only time under government ownership when passenger numbers actually rose as a time when "railways were being strangled by the government". Well, whatever the case, I'll have to back out of the UK discussion and just stick to the consensus on privatization in general (it makes companies better almost universally, obviously some industries need regulation) instead of this case.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
vuohi posted:Completely unrelated, I checked hs.fi after having been away from home for most of the day, and I am considering that someone may have spiked my food with LSD or something. oliko tämä se täti kun pukeutui ikl paitaan
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
Geriatric Pirate posted:Dumb neoliberals don't realize companies are all greedy and in collusion with each other Finally we can agree on something. Geriatric Pirate posted:Even if we ignore whether we really need regular bus service or trains to the middle of nowhere Yeah, gently caress those people living outside of kehä 1, they don't deserve public transportation!
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 01:57
|
|
|
Geriatric Pirate posted:Well, whatever the case, I'll have to back out of the UK discussion and just stick to the consensus on privatization in general (it makes companies better almost universally, obviously some industries need regulation) instead of this case. lol vuohi posted:Completely unrelated, I checked hs.fi after having been away from home for most of the day, and I am considering that someone may have spiked my food with LSD or something. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 10:47
|
|
|
Geriatric Pirate posted:Jesus christ do you guys ever stop What did the meatballs taste like?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 10:55
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:oliko tämä se täti kun pukeutui ikl paitaan En tiiä puhutaanko samasta asiasta, mutta Susanna Kaukinen on entinen anarkisti-kommunisti joka viime syksynä keksi kääntyä natsiksi, ja rupesi sitten organiseeraamaan rajat kiinni uunit auki - mielenosoituksia. Susanna Koski, kokoomuksen tämänhetkinen kansanedustaja, kohautti joskus 2013 pukeutumalla Lapuan Liikkeen paitaan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 11:39
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:En tiiä puhutaanko samasta asiasta, mutta Susanna Kaukinen on entinen anarkisti-kommunisti joka viime syksynä keksi kääntyä natsiksi, ja rupesi sitten organiseeraamaan rajat kiinni uunit auki - mielenosoituksia. Susanna Koski, kokoomuksen tämänhetkinen kansanedustaja, kohautti joskus 2013 pukeutumalla Lapuan Liikkeen paitaan. ok, tästä kaukisesta en ollut kuullutkaan ennen
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 12:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:21 |
|
|
Susanna Kaukinen on eräänlainen Jouko Piho.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2016 16:06
|
|