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dr_rat posted:I get community consultations a good thing. and if, and this is a big if, it did affect someones sunlight and they have solar panels that's a legit concern, but the house price whining is pretty disgraceful when the governments actually trying to improve the local area. "Give me free money because I'm affected by the thing! I'm entitled to money because you're doing a thing! Near me! Give me money for the thing!" It's utter selfishness.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:31
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ScreamingLlama posted:If it was mostly old and disabled people doing the rorting, you'd have a point. But most of the fraud this time around is being done by Newstart recipients. Maybe you are the one defrauding the Commonwealth?
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Feb 7, 2016 07:34
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ITT people who think there's nothing wrong with welfare fraud
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Feb 7, 2016 07:47
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I'd like to point out that one of the benefits of paying people a liveable amount of welfare is it promotes people doing art related activities and reduces crime. I'm not sure the people most fervently advocating welfare crackdowns and cuts really want to live in the world that this will create. They may believe that somehow they won't be effected because they are deserving and will be living in the gated communities with their millionaire overlords.ScreamingLlama posted:(I'm not saying they found the best way to go about combating the fraud, either, but I'd like to see you do better.) I have actually been involved in combating welfare fraud. It was mainly deadbeat Dad's evading child support payments. Just what key areas of my performance were substandard? Every revenue (spending or collecting) agency has thresholds that have to be reached before serious enforcement action is commenced. Even in the case of someone defrauding the Commonwealth of $400,000. dollars (your SMH link). The cost of prosecution against recovery (if it was ever possible) would far overbalance the financial benefit. These cases are done to show the average client that the organisation is serious about fraud once it is detected. Suggesting that a crack down is a revenue positive measure is amazingly short sighted. There are the costs of detection, investigation, prosecution and recovery. Even in the case in the SMH the financial consequences of doing nothing were probably better on the balance sheet than the prosecution and cessation of payments. This has become like the Airport security theatre. It plays well to the mob and actually does gently caress all. There's plenty wrong with welfare fraud but I haven't heard anything about it from the LNP that makes me think they give a poo poo either. ScreamingLlama posted:ITT people who think there's nothing wrong with welfare fraud
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Feb 7, 2016 07:50
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Periphery posted:It's probably not worth the effort or cost associated with collecting the money or the long term costs of negative societal impacts of dumping a 400k+ cost on someone if they can't easily afford it. A user pays system for emergency services is a loving stupid idea. Actual search and rescue costs nowhere near that much. Here you're not obligated to pay it back when you need to be rescued (it's generally people who get lost skiing/snowboarding) but a very large number of the people who are rescued donate the cost of their rescue to S&R. It's usually in the $5-10k range, and that's usually including the use of a helicopter to try and find and/or extract them. The medical bills afterwards, on the other hand, might come up to that much depending on the injury.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:51
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No, what they're saying is that it's crazy to shaft people who (like yourself) genuinely need welfare to reduce fraud that's minor compared to the other rorts in the tax system like negative gearing, wealthy people ripping off the pension system and superannuation tax concessions.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:52
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Periphery posted:It's probably not worth the effort or cost associated with collecting the money or the long term costs of negative societal impacts of dumping a 400k+ cost on someone if they can't easily afford it. A user pays system for emergency services is a loving stupid idea. Hmm Make someone engaging in risk taking behaviour pay for their own mistakes after we go to the effort of advertising all the risks OR make the community pay for it. This sure is a tough one. Maybe, just maybe, if dangerous activities were a little bit more dangerous thanks to removing the government funded safety net, people would take more care and/or not partake in those activities. It is no ones fault but the fishers if they fall in the water. Wearing a life jacket isnt necessarily a bad thing. Wakeboarders can wake board and do fancy tricks while wearing theirs, Im sure they would be suitable for fishing in.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:58
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I for one think it's noble of SL to put himself up for added Centerlink scrutiny and I'm sure he won't start complaining when he has to undergo a bunch of extra interviews and medical checkups where a single mistake leads to him being dumped from the system.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:01
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Cartoon posted:I'd like to point out that one of the benefits of paying people a liveable amount of welfare is it promotes people doing art related activities and reduces crime. I'm not sure the people most fervently advocating welfare crackdowns and cuts really want to live in the world that this will create. They may believe that somehow they won't be effected because they are deserving and will be living in the gated communities with their millionaire overlords. You lot seem to be operating on the assumption that I think underpaying people on welfare is a good thing. I think it's a very bad thing. But that's not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is whether it's appropriate for the Gestapo to spy on social media and watch people in public to catch fraudsters and I think that it is. DAAS Kapitalist posted:No, what they're saying is that it's crazy to shaft people who (like yourself) genuinely need welfare to reduce fraud that's minor compared to the other rorts in the tax system like negative gearing, wealthy people ripping off the pension system and superannuation tax concessions. True, but unfortunately the other rorts you mentioned are legal because the corporate whores in Parliament made it so. Welfare fraud is illegal. No, not everyone goes to jail; some people just get their payments stopped and/or a debt is incurred. The thing is, how are you going to know who's cheating if you're not trying to find the cheats?
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Feb 7, 2016 08:01
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Senor Tron posted:I for one think it's noble of SL to put himself up for added Centerlink scrutiny and I'm sure he won't start complaining when he has to undergo a bunch of extra interviews and medical checkups where a single mistake leads to him being dumped from the system. Like I said before: been there, done that. I wasn't dumped due to anti-fraud measures, though, I was dumped from the system because of unnecessarily tightened eligibility criteria. I'm not advocating screwing anyone over, I'm advocating , you know, keeping the bastards honest. The loving obtuseness in this thread, gods alive...
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Feb 7, 2016 08:05
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Laserface posted:
Depending on the style of PFD they can be a pain in the arse, especially when casting surf rods. Mine is great on the kayak but would get in the way on the rocks.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:10
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ScreamingLlama posted:
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Feb 7, 2016 08:11
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gay picnic defence posted:Depending on the style of PFD they can be a pain in the arse, especially when casting surf rods. Mine is great on the kayak but would get in the way on the rocks. Mandate those automatic inflatables for everyone, mainly so I can go down and watch a big wave come through and see everyone blow up like pufferfish.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:14
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ScreamingLlama posted:You lot seem to be operating on the assumption that I think underpaying people on welfare is a good thing. I think it's a very bad thing. But that's not the issue at hand. The issue at hand is whether it's appropriate for the Gestapo to spy on social media and watch people in public to catch fraudsters and I think that it is.  Except the ones who are too clever to be caught, by anyone, ever.  gently caress I hate those guys.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:16
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Laserface posted:Hmm Make someone engaging in risk taking behaviour pay for their own mistakes after we go to the effort of advertising all the risks OR make the community pay for it. This sure is a tough one. The main problem with your free market approach to emergency services is that people will delay calling for help until it's too late, turning relatively cheap rescues into more expensive rescues or body recoveries. People dying has a cost to the community well beyond the cost of any rescue. This sure is a tough one.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:20
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*in an extremely accurate ASMR voice* shut the gently caress up screamingllama
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Feb 7, 2016 08:23
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ScreamingLlama posted:corporate whores 
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Feb 7, 2016 08:28
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Milky Moor posted:*in an extremely accurate ASMR voice*
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Feb 7, 2016 08:42
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Laserface posted:Hmm Make someone engaging in risk taking behaviour pay for their own mistakes after we go to the effort of advertising all the risks OR make the community pay for it. This sure is a tough one. See if you can find the post that already addressed this making you look like an idiot.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:47
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Here's a fun hypothetical: Imagine you are a student but don't have a job and are unable to get one for whatever reason. You spend, idk, $320-340 on rent a fortnight, which is about 2/3 of your student payment. That leaves ~ $180 to cover everything including clothes, food, power/gas bills, transport to uni, and maybe, if you are lucky, some form of entertainment once a month so you don't become suicidally depressed. You then start dating your housemate, who is also on centrelink, and the relationship becomes serious. You know that you are supposed to report the relationship; however you also know that if you do, you will lose $50 each per fortnight from your payment. This will leave both of you unable to afford your utility bills and probably what little entertainment you can currently afford. Do you report the relationship? This is a situation that a lot of people get themselves into. I remember reading a case in my legal profession class in which a law student did not report his relationship; centrelink eventually caught up with him and he paid the money back, but ultimately he was disqualified from legal practice because of it.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:01
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Mithranderp posted:if you are lucky, some form of entertainment once a month so you don't become suicidally depressed oh and decent goon is $18 for 4L and the library is free bowmore fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 09:06
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bowmore posted:thank the lord Netflix is $3 a week and can be shared in a household Haha yeah Sadly a lot of these cases are from that shadowy, dark time Before Netflix (BN)
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Feb 7, 2016 09:07
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Mithranderp posted:Here's a fun hypothetical: 
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Feb 7, 2016 09:11
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Too bad if your preferred entertainment doesn't involve sitting in a dark room drinking goon and watching a screen.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:11
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Mithranderp posted:Here's a fun hypothetical: I've always wondered as an ethnic, do anglos just pack their poo poo and leave when they hit like 20 or whatever? cause the only people i know who don't live at home are anglos or foreigners. is it a cultural thing or do i need to expand my social circle
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Feb 7, 2016 09:15
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gay picnic defence posted:Too bad if your preferred entertainment doesn't involve sitting in a dark room drinking goon and watching a screen.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:16
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bowmore posted:thank the lord Netflix is $3 a week and can be shared in a household It's less good when you just have mobile data. Slightly better now I'm on a 7.5G phone plan (thanks Telstra for that crazy offer last year it now means I don't have to choose between worrying if I paid that bill and checking my bank to see if I had money when it came out). Llama, you are looking at the problem arse backwards (which for someone who is an arse face I realise is just forwards for you but I digress). There is NOT enough gains or fraud in Newstart for it to be anything more than a tool for politicians to make it harder for you to get your DSP. That is what is happening with those stories you read. That is why they put those stories out. The odd high profile bust to discourage most and the sabre rattling to dump on the poor are all that will ever happen at this level of stuff because it's so very inconsequential. No one is here to say welfare fraud is good. We're saying that welfare fraud such a joke of an issue that it's not really worth worrying about. If the government actually cared about this beyond what they already know then they would release reports that show that OAP are the ones committing the fraud and crack down on that. Until they actually want to tackle the problem when you sit their and scream their battle cry it is hard to take your opinion seriously. You're not of the gently caress the poor variety person so that just means you've drank the koolaid and not even realised it was koolaid. Pavel is on an RDO so have Lauren Cameron  http://i.imgur.com/jEjdZcq.jpg
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Feb 7, 2016 09:18
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bowmore posted:Take the goon to a friends house Login to Netflix from their PC, too
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Feb 7, 2016 09:18
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Silly to use Netflix on mobile data
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Feb 7, 2016 09:19
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bowmore posted:Silly to use Netflix on mobile data Yeah, because all poor people can afford dsl connections.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:21
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TheIllestVillain posted:I've always wondered as an ethnic, do anglos just pack their poo poo and leave when they hit like 20 or whatever? cause the only people i know who don't live at home are anglos or foreigners. is it a cultural thing or do i need to expand my social circle The main reason I moved out was that my family is poor and I was paying rent either way. Once I reached 22 I qualified for the independent centrelink rate, which meant that moving out was a good move for me, financially speaking as well. There's also social reasons; I'd imagine most of us would find it awkward casually dating while living at home.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:23
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Starshark posted:See if you can find the post that already addressed this making you look like an idiot. So we should just bail out every fuckwit who gets in over their head? why dont we help gamblers, drug addicts, and criminals? gay picnic defence posted:Too bad if your preferred entertainment doesn't involve sitting in a dark room drinking goon and watching a screen. Take them Rock Fishing!
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Feb 7, 2016 09:23
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bowmore posted:Silly to use Netflix on mobile data I don't, just pointing out that netflix isn't exactly an option if you don't have a fixed connection. Haven't tried to see if it works while on campus but iView and On Demand does so I'm happy.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:24
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Birb Katter posted:I don't, just pointing out that netflix isn't exactly an option if you don't have a fixed connection. Haven't tried to see if it works while on campus but iView and On Demand does so I'm happy. Netflix, SBS and iView all work pretty well at my campus.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:25
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Laserface posted:So we should just bail out every fuckwit who gets in over their head? why dont we help gamblers, drug addicts, and criminals? I'd be down with this. If the government had to start paying loan sharks for gamblers maybe they'd stop being so addicted to the income it gives them.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:27
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Guys don't yell at ScreamingLlama, you're not going to get through like that.
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Feb 7, 2016 09:34
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Don't whisper, either
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Feb 7, 2016 09:34
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ScreamingLlama posted:Like I said before: been there, done that. I wasn't dumped due to anti-fraud measures, though, I was dumped from the system because of unnecessarily tightened eligibility criteria. And in the real world there isn't a "evict cheaters" button they can press. It's just an increasing series of more and more difficult tests and checks and standards until you are dumping out lots of legitimate claims. You yourself have had firsthand experience with how difficult Centerlink can be. Exactly how do you propose they clamp down further without hurting people who actually need the service?
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Feb 7, 2016 09:43
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Skellybones posted:Guys don't yell at ScreamingLlama, you're not going to get through like that. I like an excuse to post Pavel et al pics #notallskeltals http://i.imgur.com/pvgWo6v.jpg
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Feb 7, 2016 09:52
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How loving dumb do you have to be to be currently in hardship due to Centrelink loving you over and still buy into the false conflict "dole bludgers " bullshit? Even Anidav didn't go and scream about all those problem tenants ruining it for us honest folk by making landlords crack down on everyone. Llama you're literally dumber than Anidav.
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Feb 7, 2016 10:39
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