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kartikeya posted:This isn't true, but the reality isn't all that much better. Black people (and other ethnicities) have always been allowed in the LDS church, have been able to be baptized, receive blessings, etc. However, it wasn't until 1978 that black men were allowed to hold the priesthood, which is a big deal (Mormons don't have separate clergy like the Catholic Church, every man of a certain age is allowed to hold the priesthood provided he's living according to church standards). Weirdly enough, when the church was first founded and for some time after, a number of black men did hold the priesthood, but some time after Joseph Smith's death Brigham Young announced it wasn't going to be allowed any more. As far as I know Mormon churches were never segregated (beyond regional racial makeup, as local congregations are organized into 'Wards' or 'Branches' and which one you go to depends on where you live), although it wouldn't surprise me if this happened in certain areas of the South. Nobody actually cares. This thread is about the Oregon standoff. Make an Ask/Tell or something.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:55
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To be fair, it is nice to have a rabid Mormon to summon when news slows down. Its more interesting then the thread going back to the FBI too slow argument we've had since this started.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:58
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Lord Harbor posted:I wonder how Tarpman would have felt if he knew that, following his heroic last stand in which he resists the government even unto his last breath, his supporters would all be convincing themselves that he had meekly surrendered. If he's anything like the rest of them, he'd get kind of sad that his macho fantasies didn't work out, then switch gears and cry that the mean old government would dare shoot him just because he reached for a weapon after spending a month vowing to kill anyone who tried to arrest him. Also, I would greatly urge that any further religion discussions immediately follow Zaitz's example and instead discuss pie because I'd rather debate the impact of aluminum vs steel pie pans than spend one more second on that can of worms.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:11
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kartikeya posted:https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696451544506433537 It makes me wonder sometimes if these peoples world views would implode if they knew Rachel Maddow is a gun lover too and probably a better shot than most of them.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:18
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Skinty McEdger posted:It makes me wonder sometimes if these peoples world views would implode if they knew Rachel Maddow is a gun lover too and probably a better shot than most of them. poo poo, I don't like being around guns in most situations, and I know I'm a better shot than they are.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:20
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Captain Monkey posted:Nobody actually cares. This thread is about the Oregon standoff. Make an Ask/Tell or something. Posters make a bunch of posts about Mormons that are factually wrong or just blatant hyperbole. This is ok Poster responds by correcting the misinformation and clearing things up. "No one cares about mormonism, you rabid nut" when did this become GBS? Geostomp posted:If he's anything like the rest of them, he'd get kind of sad that his macho fantasies didn't work out, then switch gears and cry that the mean old government would dare shoot him just because he reached for a weapon after spending a month vowing to kill anyone who tried to arrest him. I imagine the last few minutes of life he had in him he thought about two things. One the pain, and two, how he hosed up his quick draw SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 01:25
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kartikeya posted:https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696451544506433537 It's blatant "They don't have guns, they can't threaten and intimidate us, therefore we don't have to give a gently caress what they say." Like. . really? guys? You're just sort of embracing the idea that the only reason you're carrying guns is to try and intimidate and terrify people into getting your way? I mean that's the only way I can read this. "They don't have guns therefore they don't matter."
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Feb 8, 2016 01:30
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kartikeya posted:I recently mentioned Prop 8 being really lovely, but I'll try to elaborate (in a very short sort of way): yeah, it was really loving lovely. How they shuffled their books is irrelevant to the fact that they, as a church, should not be allowed to do so. Preach to your members (as murky as that is) but funding anything political should be not allowed, full stop. And not against you but I seriously doubt wiki is going to have actual insight into church finances, especially one as large as the CoLDS. quote:Prop 8 wasn't just a Mormon thing. It was a Catholic thing and also included a great many other denominations. That doesn't excuse the LDS church in any way, but I feel confident that an awful lot of Catholics weren't in support of it either (or, you know, Jews. Or Eastern Orthodox members. Or all evangelicals I didn't mean to single out Mormons, all kinds of evangelical organizations were involved, I'm just not aware of them dumping as much cash as LDS did, and the fact that they were allowed despite supposedly it being a lose tax exemption thing and nobody even mentioned that happening is what pisses me off. Preach gays are evil, whatever, but you don't get to pour church money into things like prop 8, and my other point was despite how much you may disagree with what they did you can't just divorce yourself from the parts you don't like. Your church did this, you can't say well I didn't support it and have it somehow absolve you. If you are part of an organization that does this kind of poo poo then, however small, you are supporting it. I donate to the aspca, peta can go gently caress themselves with how much they waste on publicity stunts. And don't take this me attacking you (despite you calling other people assholes), I just don't agree that you can claim you can simultaneously be a member of an organization but only the parts you agree with. If you actively try within the church to get them to stop then I can respect you for that.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:31
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I love that he's uploading videos *during the super bowl*. Way to read your audience, idiot.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:33
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E-Tank posted:It's blatant "They don't have guns, they can't threaten and intimidate us, therefore we don't have to give a gently caress what they say." It's not really different than what they've been saying since this began. They've been very clear about being crazed gunmen from day one, delusions of heroism notwithstanding.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:33
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Toasticle posted:Prop 8 Chat While it's been brought up, I highly recommend '8', the play about Prop 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUG8F9uVgM It's hilarious really. It's a dramatic reading by a bunch of famous actors of the court proceedings during Prop 8, and some of the people it would have affected. It even stars John C. Reilly as the expert witness brought in to talk about how terribad gay parents are. He kills it when he flops on the questioning.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:37
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E-Tank posted:While it's been brought up, I highly recommend '8', the play about Prop 8. John C' Reilly's part starts around 54 minutes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUG8F9uVgM&t=3240s Holy poo poo, that thing's cast is packed to the fuckin' gills. Rick_Hunter fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 01:51
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Captain Monkey posted:Nobody actually cares. This thread is about the Oregon standoff. Make an Ask/Tell or something. Killer-of-Lawyers posted:To be fair, it is nice to have a rabid Mormon to summon when news slows down. Its more interesting then the thread going back to the FBI too slow argument we've had since this started. SocketWrench posted:Posters make a bunch of posts about Mormons that are factually wrong or just blatant hyperbole. This is ok Pretty much. I'm perfectly happy not to mention anything to do with Mormonism on any thread (it's not exactly fun and games when it comes up), unless it's already being brought up and people are either asking questions which I have the capacity to answer, or posting misinformation, which are both things that people tend to chime in on if they know better on pretty much any topic (it's one of my favorite things in D&D, I actually occasionally learn poo poo). I'm not sure how knowing about my religion while fully acknowledging its many faults makes me rabid, but you do you, KoL. Toasticle posted:How they shuffled their books is irrelevant to the fact that they, as a church, should not be allowed to do so. Preach to your members (as murky as that is) but funding anything political should be not allowed, full stop. And not against you but I seriously doubt wiki is going to have actual insight into church finances, especially one as large as the CoLDS. I completely agree with you. I didn't mean this to sound like I was trying to defend anything to do with Prop 8, I was simply wondering if actual tithing money was used (as that was the accusation, and I was curious because I didn't know the answer). That said, the Catholic church is having a number of schisms right now because a large, laaaarge number of Catholics don't agree with certain things that Catholic leadership do or say, but they're still Catholics. Religion is messy, organized religion especially so. It's not a club I signed up for where I can just decide to go to the one down the street with lower prices and less junk mail. That may make me a hypocrite or culpable in your eyes, and I get that. It's a valid way to look at it. But it is what it is. As far as my efforts to change things, unfortunately they're pretty limited. I'm disabled, and in a way that severely limits my ability to get out in public at all (as previously mentioned, I'm rarely able to actually attend church because of it, protesting is something I can no longer really do). Maybe that's me being a coward (hell, the disability is partly anxiety related), but again, it is what it is. I'm sorry my church pulled that poo poo, that's about all I can say. I'm not taking it as an attack, in case I haven't already made that clear. Though, to clarify, the only person I was referring to as an rear end in a top hat was the guy calling everyone in my religion a victim like 'oh you poor dears you just can't make your own decisions'. Geostomp posted:Also, I would greatly urge that any further religion discussions immediately follow Zaitz's example and instead discuss pie because I'd rather debate the impact of aluminum vs steel pie pans than spend one more second on that can of worms. I'm entirely on board with this. If anyone has further questions as relate to this incident they should feel free to ask, but otherwise I'd be over the moon to get back to laughing at idiots and talking about sugary confections.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:04
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Cherry pie is superior to apple pie.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:13
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And on topic content: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/refuge_occupier_calls_for_feds.html quote:He also asked the feds to leave Oregon voluntarily. GET OUT OF ALL THE STATES FBI  quote:After proclaiming his right to prepare for an "onslaught," Fry approached a pickup truck with a U.S. Government license plate and got in. Fry is such an amazingly stupid man. Although I'm still worried these four are going to go actively suicidal. Right now they just seem to be passively so; expecting to get killed, possibly telling would be rescuers (not that they would have made it in) they didn't want to be rescued, and so on.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:16
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Most cherry pie has a weird metallic aftertaste, in my experience. Perhaps you've had better cherry pie than I have had.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:16
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Butterscotch cinnamon pie is excellent, but it's hard to get the right amount of firmness in the body of the pie. On the bright side, our long drought is being helped by Mr. Fry, who has a whole new set of videos. 9 in all: format is title: description.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 02:18
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Most cherry pie has a weird metallic aftertaste, in my experience. Perhaps you've had better cherry pie than I have had. Even the sugar-coated little debbie cherry pies don't have a metallic aftertaste. I don't think you're eating cherry pie if you taste something metallic unless cherries make your mouth bleed for some reason.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:22
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Evil Fluffy posted:Even the sugar-coated little debbie cherry pies don't have a metallic aftertaste. I don't think you're eating cherry pie if you taste something metallic unless cherries make your mouth bleed for some reason. Maybe it's like broccoli, where only some people can taste it? Now you've got me curious. I'll try one of those lovely Lil' Debbies sometime in the interest of science. I'm really curious how this standoff is going to end and I look forward to discovering.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:29
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Oh my god that garbage camp. I would write so many citations if I found a camp like that. Like oh you're just camping? Cool even if anyone buys that patent horseshit it's still illegal as hell.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:31
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Oh my god that garbage camp. Excuse me, it's "Camp Finicum"!
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Feb 8, 2016 02:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:Even the sugar-coated little debbie cherry pies don't have a metallic aftertaste. I don't think you're eating cherry pie if you taste something metallic unless cherries make your mouth bleed for some reason. Cheap canned cherries can cause this.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:36
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Oh my god that garbage camp. They're just demonstrating what the whole thing would look like if they ran it.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:45
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I really don't want to bring up the Mormon thing, but I can't help but feel some of the history relates here. Wasn't one of the reason for the extreme reaction to Mormons in the upper midwest during their exodus because they'd come into a town, say they're in charge now, and that would cause the locals to take up arms and force them out, then they'd pick up and try it in another town? It sounds an awful lot like what they tried to do in Burns. Best pie is Chocolate Mud Pie, followed by lemon meringue pie, then apple.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:28
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Best pie is cherry pie, like George Washington and the guy who got us started on pie chat agree.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:35
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https://twitter.com/pdxphotoggal/status/696420738639638528
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Feb 8, 2016 03:36
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https://twitter.com/Rubiconski/status/696518159851847682
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Feb 8, 2016 03:37
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https://twitter.com/Rubiconski/status/696513148560343040
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Feb 8, 2016 03:38
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https://twitter.com/Lizard_of_Ahaz/status/696473979293335553
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Feb 8, 2016 03:42
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twistedmentat posted:I really don't want to bring up the Mormon thing, but I can't help but feel some of the history relates here. Wasn't one of the reason for the extreme reaction to Mormons in the upper midwest during their exodus because they'd come into a town, say they're in charge now, and that would cause the locals to take up arms and force them out, then they'd pick up and try it in another town? Not exactly, although you've got an idea of what the large amount of trouble was. Essentially Mormons stuck together (new religion and plenty of mob violence will have that effect), and tended to vote as a bloc. Which meant that you'd have a large and rapidly growing population (as Mormons would come from other areas because, again, new religion and lots of mob violence, there was strength and comfort in numbers) move into a county or town that could have a big impact on elections. Couple that with the fact that this was pre-Civil War era Missouri, and a lot of the Mormons moving in from other places were from Northern states and not necessarily slavery friendly. And then add in the whole 'we think your religion is blasphemy' thing. After a few times of being forced out of areas at gunpoint (often losing everything they owned, including their land) and general mob violence that killed a number of people, Mormons started getting defensive. They'd organize militias and sometimes react poorly to political figures that either spoke against them or were rumored to (there's a story at the wikipedia article I linked a page or so back about a bunch of Mormons surrounding a judge's home and demanding he sign a document disavowing any involvement with the mobs or anti-Mormon militias, resulting in him being pretty pissed off). A number of Mormons wanted to actively fight back, and eventually did in some ways. There was a 'compromise' for a bit in which Mormons were considered limited to one Missouri county, but when they started settling outside of that things heated up again and got ugly fast. Rinse and repeat in Illinois once they were forced to leave Missouri under state government threat of being killed to the last man, woman and child. A few of these settlements were built by Mormons (Nauvoo for example, and I believe Far West). They tried petitioning the federal government for help and were pretty much ignored. I think the closest thing to what you describe was Independence Missouri and the idea church leadership had at the time of building Zion there. It was initially 'hey we'll set up here, things will be great' and kind've ballooned into 'if we're just righteous enough all these people who keep trying to kill us or drive us out will go away and we'll inherit the land' which, you know, wasn't exactly popular among non-Mormons in Missouri. You could probably make the argument that the Mormons settled on native american land and thus stole things that way, but, welp, all of America is culpable there. TL;DR big, fast growing voting bloc, religious intolerance, defensiveness on the part of all parties involved, mob violence leading to more defensiveness leading to more defensiveness etc etc etc up until the governor of the state wrote a document that straight up said 'get the gently caress out or die'. My favorite is French Silk pie. I'm not nearly as big a pie enthusiast as my brother was though, but my father carries on the tradition.
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Feb 8, 2016 03:45
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Oh my god that garbage camp. ~stewards of the land~
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Feb 8, 2016 03:50
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Maybe someone with more legal knowledge can answer this. Because Fry, the Andersens and Banda are part of the larger conspiracy charge, does that mean every dumbass thing Fry is documenting them doing right now can potentially be used to bury the rest of the Bundy Bunch? If so, lmfao
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Feb 8, 2016 04:52
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Discendo Vox posted:On the bright side, our long drought is being helped by Mr. Fry, who has a whole new set of videos. These are incredible, and as I watch them each one is the next best one but I feel that the start of the fifth one, FBI Throwing Tantrums! is just ... I just don't know what to say. Not only does he describe a bunch of empty bottles (aka trash) placed in front of some angled large logs as a booby trap "if they're come through here we're going to hear them stepping on these", he actually has the presence of mind to deliberately step on them to make an example of the noise that will craftily reveal the FBIs approach to their heavily fortified position. He then says that what they're doing is fortifying but that he doesn't understand how fortifying is an offence, but because of the <brief foray into gun wank session about the FBIs armoury> that they need to fortify against a superior fire power. It's like every element of this is observed independently of the situation, completely context free, and judged appropriately. Also, Fatman is really pushing the "We did nothing wrong, we just want to go home" line constantly. I keep feeling like he is going to burst into tears, or that he does this a lot off-camera and summons the composure during a video. markgreyam fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 05:13
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I'm not a law expert or anything, but yeah, putting incriminating evidence on youtube is bad, and doing it while under indictment for conspiracy is bad for everyone involved. It will probably be a factor in whatever plea deal the Bundys are offered. Not that there's good evidence they'd take one.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:14
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SocketWrench posted:Posters make a bunch of posts about Mormons that are factually wrong or just blatant hyperbole. This is ok Yes, pretty much, perpetuating the idiot derail with your mythology isn't positive. The people who first started it are idiots too, but responding makes it so much worse. Also, it's 100% pointless to argue about whether one version or the other is legitimate because they're both based on faith not reason and thus can't be objectively judged. Kartikeya could say s/he has the right of it, but objectively kartikeya has as much standing for that being true as Bundy due to the nature of religious knowledge. So who cares?
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Feb 8, 2016 05:15
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So their Internet's not really cut off? Or were they connected for a bit for some reason, and DefendYourBase just used the opportunity to upload a buttload of videos?
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Feb 8, 2016 05:21
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ashpanash posted:I'm not a law expert or anything, but yeah, putting incriminating evidence on youtube is bad, and doing it while under indictment for conspiracy is bad for everyone involved. Unless the deal is "get your dad where we can arrest his rear end safely" or something similar the Bundy bros aren't getting offered a deal because the prosecution would need to gently caress up on a huge scale to not nail these guys.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:21
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markgreyam posted:Also, Fatman is really pushing the "We did nothing wrong, we just want to go home" line constantly. I keep feeling like he is going to burst into tears, or that he does this a lot off-camera and summons the composure during a video. Dude probably does just want to go home. He's just in denial that the good option at this point is to surrender and go to federal prison for a decade.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:24
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Lycus posted:So their Internet's not really cut off? Or were they connected for a bit for some reason, and DefendYourBase just used the opportunity to upload a buttload of videos? They found some working phones left behind inside one of the buildings. As far as I know all their personal phones were cut off when the FBI gave them a phone that could only be used to contact them.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:28
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Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a person trips and falls over one of Fry's oh-so-clever traps? Would that potentially make things worse for Ammon as well?
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Feb 8, 2016 05:32
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