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Captain Monkey posted:Yes, pretty much, perpetuating the idiot derail with your mythology isn't positive. The people who first started it are idiots too, but responding makes it so much worse. At this point I don't even know what you're talking about. I wasn't talking about what religion/faith/whatever was true, I was talking about religious beliefs of a specific, organized religion and historical events. The LDS church has very specific doctrine, I was saying 'this is what is doctrine, this is what is not' as regards the LDS church. As far as I know Bundy has never said something like 'shofars are totally a Mormon thing' so it's not like I'm even contradicting the dumbass, other than to say 'LDS church said this was not cool' and 'according to Mormon doctrine he can't suddenly have a revelation that affects the whole country in which he's conveniently the chosen one'. I've been responding to people in the thread asking 'is this a Mormon thing/related to Mormonism?' and people in the thread posting stuff that's either historically inaccurate or wrong as regards (especially modern) Mormon doctrine. No one is arguing whether or not a religion is true or not, dude. It'd be like if I suddenly started talking about how a certain sect of Muslims believed X and someone who knew a lot about that sect or belonged to it said 'no, this is wrong, they actually believe Y' and then someone else came in and started flailing about how the second person was proselytizing or something.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:42
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Oh good more Scientology 0.5 chat.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:45
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unless the deal is "get your dad where we can arrest his rear end safely" or something similar the Bundy bros aren't getting offered a deal because the prosecution would need to gently caress up on a huge scale to not nail these guys. There's a good chance that some of the defendants will gridlock the case with bullshit sovcit legal theories, though, and the prosecutors may not want to deal with that. SSNeoman posted:Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a person trips and falls over one of Fry's oh-so-clever traps? Would that potentially make things worse for Ammon as well? It'd be great if the trash on the ground was a red herring and Camp Finnicum was fortified with elaborate, Home Alone style traps.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:50
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Edit: nevermind, phone hosed that post all up and I'm too lazy. Keep on trucking kartikeya, much like your bretherin being asked to stop by a majority of the people in an area hasn't stopped you from declaring yourself full of special knowledge that HAS to be taught immediately to the detriment of everything else going on.
Yngwie Mangosteen fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 06:07
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SLAMMYsosa posted:Maybe someone with more legal knowledge can answer this. One you have withdrawn from the conspiracy you are not on the hook for subsequent acts of co-conspirators. That is, withdrawal terminates Pinkerton liability. However, withdrawal is an affirmative defense. As a result, the defense bears the burden of proving withdrawal. Procedurally, the prosecution is required to prove membership in the conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt (as it must all substantive elements of all crimes). Once the prosecution has satisfied this burden, the defense must then prove withdrawal by a preponderance of the evidence. Preponderance of the evidence is a lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt, generally understood as more likely than not, or anything over 50% certainty. To withdraw from a conspiracy, a member must perform acts inconsistent with the conspiracy, and make some reasonable effort to communicate that to the other conspirators. In some jurisdictions, informing law enforcement and aiding them in thwarting the conspiracy also counts. See, e.g., http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/479 The Ninth Circuit's Model Jury Instruction on Withdrawal from Conspiracy. Mere imprisonment is not an automatic withdrawal from a conspiracy. See, e.g., Smith v. United States 133 S. Ct. 714 (2013) http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-8976_k5fl.pdf It is likely Ammon's statements through his lawyer to the remaining holdouts that they should leave peacefully are an attempt to establish withdrawal. It's also possible, given his inability to stop saying stupid poo poo, that these efforts won't be sufficient. If the remaining holdouts do something really dumb, like shoot at the FBI, this could very well be an interesting litigated issue. So like really any legal issue, maybe. Regardless of how that issue shakes out, it's potentially a very heavy hammer the government can swing if this ends violently. If a federal agent gets shot, or shot at, adding a substantive charge under a Pinkerton theory would be a standard way to lean on conspirators to either take a plea with a relatively heavy sentence or flip on the others.
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Feb 8, 2016 06:12
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I just want to say it's great how we're discussing legal theories of conspiracy
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Feb 8, 2016 06:16
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Captain Monkey posted:Edit: nevermind, phone hosed that post all up and I'm too lazy. Keep on trucking kartikeya, much like your bretherin being asked to stop by a majority of the people in an area hasn't stopped you from declaring yourself full of special knowledge that HAS to be taught immediately to the detriment of everything else going on. No, seriously, what the gently caress are you even talking about?
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Feb 8, 2016 06:17
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This may be the wrong place to ask, but was the USPol February thread gassed or moved or something? I can't find it in the first few pages of D&D
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Feb 8, 2016 06:59
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Filthy Hans posted:This may be the wrong place to ask, but was the USPol February thread gassed or moved or something? I can't find it in the first few pages of D&D It's in Your Candidate Sucks now, but frankly I have no idea why you want to read it.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:01
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Filthy Hans posted:This may be the wrong place to ask, but was the USPol February thread gassed or moved or something? I can't find it in the first few pages of D&D It was moved to YCS because it's a terrible thread.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:01
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Kazak_Hstan posted:It is likely Ammon's statements through his lawyer to the remaining holdouts that they should leave peacefully are an attempt to establish withdrawal. It's also possible, given his inability to stop saying stupid poo poo, that these efforts won't be sufficient. If the remaining holdouts do something really dumb, like shoot at the FBI, this could very well be an interesting litigated issue. Thanks. Even without being on the hook for Jeff Banta drunkenly taking a pot shot at an FBI HRT operator, the list of charges has got to be staggering. Can't wait for Fry et al. to run out of snacks so the feds can go in there and accurately assess the damages. I wonder how long until they start rationing the gummy dicks and turning on each other.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:02
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https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696575022211559426 1200 dudes? We'll do it with 400, amateurs.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:11
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Conspiracy chargeschat- if the causal chain leading to the traps and subsequent actions of co-conspirators was sufficiently foreseeable, it might still carry over because it was set in motion before withdrawal? I'm not 100% sure on that. In any case, I want to remind folks that RICO may be available against the Bundys et al due to damage to federal property charges now falling under RICO. This would be deliciously ironic because such charges were added under, you guessed it, an antiterror law.Captain Monkey posted:Yes, pretty much, perpetuating the idiot derail with your mythology isn't positive. The people who first started it are idiots too, but responding makes it so much worse. Shut up and go away, you're contributing nothing and being a xenophobic rear end.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:12
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StandardVC10 posted:It's in Your Candidate Sucks now, but frankly I have no idea why you want to read it. I figured something like that happened, c'est la vie
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Feb 8, 2016 07:13
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Is it an unwritten rule that you have to be barely coherent to be a sovcit militia type? These people make Palin look like Hemingway.SLAMMYsosa posted:There's a good chance that some of the defendants will gridlock the case with bullshit sovcit legal theories, though, and the prosecutors may not want to deal with that. The judge(s) who get to handle these cases are not going to just be ok with some crazy rear end in a top hat making a mockery of their court. Any prosecutor that doesn't want to deal with it, especially on a case this high profile, is in the wrong business.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:19
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kartikeya posted:https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696575022211559426 And we'll do it without spelling, punctuation, and grammar! (We'll need snacks and Red Bull, though.)
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Feb 8, 2016 07:21
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kartikeya posted:https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696575022211559426 I'm telling you: these people have some sort of severe mental illness. Put them in straitjackets and lock them up in an asylum before they hurt someone.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:34
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StandardVC10 posted:It's in Your Candidate Sucks now, but frankly I have no idea why you want to read it. It has been good at times, but not recently, and certainly not since it spiraled into the Democratic Candidates Hellmatch.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:35
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Please let the conspiracy theory be that the actual population of Burns is imprisoned in a FEMA camp because they supported Bundy from the start, but the Government replaced them with shipped in crisis actors so it would appear that the citizens were against the occupation. The Rascal Brigade needs to ride out and free the true citizens and overthrow the ZOG ruled Burns.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:37
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It has been good at times, but not recently, and certainly not since it spiraled into the Democratic Candidates Hellmatch. The best thing about the USPol threads is always Joementum posts, too bad they've drowned in the blood of thin-skinned white-knighting jihadists
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Feb 8, 2016 07:38
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Discendo Vox posted:Conspiracy chargeschat- if the causal chain leading to the traps and subsequent actions of co-conspirators was sufficiently foreseeable, it might still carry over because it was set in motion before withdrawal? I'm not 100% sure on that. In any case, I want to remind folks that RICO may be available against the Bundys et al due to damage to federal property charges now falling under RICO. This would be deliciously ironic because such charges were added under, you guessed it, an antiterror law. My understanding is that reasonable foreseeability is a threshold issue for vicarious liability for substantive crimes of co-conspirators, and withdrawal is a complete defense (against post-withdrawal substantive crimes, not pre-withdrawal substantive crimes or the underlying conspiracy). I haven't dug into the case law deep enough to say that for 100% certainty though. Also worth noting, it's entirely possible there is evidence to sustain a separate charge of conspiracy to assault or murder federal law enforcement officers. I don't think publicly available information supports that yet. But there are a lot of guns and a lot of rhetoric that gets *thisclose* to saying they'll kill cops. So it's not a huge stretch to suppose they explicitly discussed and agreed to that among each other at some point. If so, it doesn't really matter what the holdouts do at this point; that's enough to deep six people without a shot ever being fired. Some of these shitbirds will roll, there is no doubt about that. It will be very interesting when they do.
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Feb 8, 2016 07:40
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https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/694206986494160896
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Feb 8, 2016 07:44
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Most cherry pie has a weird metallic aftertaste, in my experience. Perhaps you've had better cherry pie than I have had. Either you live near Flint, or you get pies from nuclear testing ranges markgreyam posted:Also, Fatman is really pushing the "We did nothing wrong, we just want to go home" line constantly. I keep feeling like he is going to burst into tears, or that he does this a lot off-camera and summons the composure during a video. Well, the last they heard he was definitely going to jail. He knows he ain't going home no matter how this ends. so yeah, him being a snivelling baby right now makes sense SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 08:09
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Is there some kind of an article on the connection between these pricks and guys who want to open up public lands to private exploitation? The connection seems obvious enough but I mean if MJ did some journalism or whatever. It'd be real funny if those folks got busted for aiding and abetting terrorism.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:10
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Sounds like they have a generator, from watching the new defend your base videos.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:16
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SLAMMYsosa posted:There's a good chance that some of the defendants will gridlock the case with bullshit sovcit legal theories, though, and the prosecutors may not want to deal with that. And at any point they do the judge can tell them to shut the gently caress up. This isn't Congress where you can fillibuster the floor for a few days. It's court where the judge smacks a contempt charge on the pile and has the shits gagged Captain Monkey posted:Edit: nevermind, phone hosed that post all up and I'm too lazy. Keep on trucking kartikeya, much like your bretherin being asked to stop by a majority of the people in an area hasn't stopped you from declaring yourself full of special knowledge that HAS to be taught immediately to the detriment of everything else going on. You know, if you don't want him posting this stuff, shut up about it, christ. SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 08:21
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kartikeya posted:https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/696575022211559426 Steven Brooks needs to go back to school and learn how to write so he doesn't sound like a confused idiot
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Feb 8, 2016 08:28
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SocketWrench posted:Steven Brooks needs to go back to school and learn how to write so he doesn't sound like a confused idiot You say that like he isn't a confused idiot.
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Feb 8, 2016 08:33
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ToxicSlurpee posted:You say that like he isn't a confused idiot. 
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Feb 8, 2016 09:17
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Edit: this is the weirdest thing, it won't show on browser a reply i made with my phone. So I reply with phone, think it doesn't take and half an hour later reply via browser (after reloading SA entirely and the thread itself)... so yeah. Double-post deleted.
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Feb 8, 2016 09:42
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It wasn't showing up for me either. Every so often this sort of problem hits a thread for a half hour or so.
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Feb 8, 2016 09:47
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Most cherry pie has a weird metallic aftertaste, in my experience. Perhaps you've had better cherry pie than I have had. Evil Fluffy posted:Even the sugar-coated little debbie cherry pies don't have a metallic aftertaste. I don't think you're eating cherry pie if you taste something metallic unless cherries make your mouth bleed for some reason. CheesyDog posted:Cheap canned cherries can cause this. Are you eating the can? More seriously, this may be an individual difference response to a preservative used with cherries, or an artificial flavoring, or a number of other things. Nessus posted:Is there some kind of an article on the connection between these pricks and guys who want to open up public lands to private exploitation? The connection seems obvious enough but I mean if MJ did some journalism or whatever. It'd be real funny if those folks got busted for aiding and abetting terrorism. I think JJ MacNab has written on it- she at a minimum tweeted about how the first Bundy standoff was getting materials from one of the groups. edit: found them. It's a series of tweets that starts with this one: https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/688746822345576452 I think she makes a decent, but not ironclad case. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 10:02
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Doublepostin like a mutha to show off Pete Santili's chameleon routine: https://twitter.com/eclecticlore/status/696509451470139392 Additionally, I had not been aware that the BLM had a mascot. Meet Seymour the Antelope!   I was going to make a fursuit joke here, but honestly it's not that bad compared with the other government mascots that came up when I look for images. The cargo shorts really bug me, though. ...I kinda want the FBI to sic Seymour on the holdout occupiers. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 10:05
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Discendo Vox posted:I was going to make a fursuit joke here, but honestly it's not that bad compared with the other government mascots that came up when I look for images. The cargo shorts really bug me, though. So you're mad because you can't see anthropomorphic deer cock?
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Feb 8, 2016 10:49
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Obviously that's a government plant. After all, he's encouraging people to use the lands but we all know the government locks everyone out of public lands. Lynch Seymore Lol, shop an antelope with a gun onto a still of Lavoy when he gets shot and send it to the protesters
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Feb 8, 2016 11:15
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Trig Discipline posted:So you're mad because you can't see anthropomorphic deer cock? It's that weird deal where them just wearing 1 article of clothing makes them feel more naked than if they were just a normal animal getup.
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Feb 8, 2016 11:26
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Yardbomb posted:It's that weird deal where them just wearing 1 article of clothing makes them feel more naked than if they were just a normal animal getup. Just imagining that big deer dick flopping around in those loose shorts...
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Feb 8, 2016 11:38
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Mods plz namechange to Venison Dickslang
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Feb 8, 2016 12:16
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Discendo Vox posted:Doublepostin like a mutha to show off Pete Santili's chameleon routine: This is why the "Pete Santili is a fed" speculation began. Well that and him documenting a criminal conspiracy and putting it up on the internet for everyone to see. Someone never watched the wire.
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Feb 8, 2016 12:21
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https://twitter.com/Rubiconski/status/696586078958911489
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Feb 8, 2016 13:35
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