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Mitt Romney posted:What would it take to educate the American public on how marginal tax brackets work? They should heavily embed it in high school or something. Marginal tax brackets are inherently unintuitive because of the nature of their existence. It gets even worse as you add more brackets. Really the best solution is probably to just make an "effective" tax rate and teach people what that is. So as a simple example: If the tax brackets are as follows: - $0-$50,000: pay 0% -$50,000+ : pay 50% Then someone who's paid $75,000 pays an effective rate of (50,000*0 + 25,000*0.5)/75,000 = 16.7% effective rate. And people don't even need to know the calculations behind it, just make a calculator app that does it for them.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:04
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e: dp
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Feb 12, 2016 17:05
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Luigi Thirty posted:School shooting in Glendale, AZ. 2 shot, 1 dead, situation under control. For a brief moment, I forgot this was happening at epidemic levels.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:06
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Jesus loving Christ
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Feb 12, 2016 17:10
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Yeah uh those two stories back to back make me want to close this thread and not read it for a few days! edit: and maybe start drinking at 11 am at work
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Feb 12, 2016 17:17
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Luigi Thirty posted:School shooting in Glendale, AZ. 2 shot, 1 dead, situation under control. *brings out step ladder to reset the "_______ DAYS SINCE A SCHOOL SHOOTING" sign*
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Feb 12, 2016 17:20
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computer parts posted:Marginal tax brackets are inherently unintuitive because of the nature of their existence. It gets even worse as you add more brackets. Really the best solution is probably to just make an "effective" tax rate and teach people what that is. I think the best thing to do is just repeat over and over "it is impossible to make less money after taxes by earning a larger salary". Because, in your example, many people think that they would owe $0 if they made $49999, and $25000 if they had a slightly larger salary of $50000. If you just repeat that this scenario is impossible enough because it would mean making less money after taxes by earning a larger salary, eventually they'll ask you to explain. Maybe in the moment of explanation they will understand, though they probably wouldn't be able to repeat back exactly why a week later. But they would at least remember that it is impossible to make less money after taxes with a larger salary, which is the important thing. Scrub-Niggurath posted:*brings out step ladder to reset the "_______ DAYS SINCE A SCHOOL SHOOTING" sign*
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Feb 12, 2016 17:28
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I mean if those guys had their way, we would be exactly like El Salvador with no access to contraception or abortion. So they are totally cool with this.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:29
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If the person you're talking to can't comprehend tax brackets, back away from them slowly and don't make any sudden movements because they're clearly stupid as hell. It is quite literally middle school level math (piecewise functions)
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Feb 12, 2016 17:30
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Reminder (again) that making average people do a bunch of math to file their taxes is perpetuated by TurboTax to give itself a reason to exist.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:31
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Radbot posted:If the person you're talking to can't comprehend tax brackets, back away from them slowly and don't make any sudden movements because they're clearly stupid as hell. It is quite literally middle school level math (piecewise functions) The left needs to learn to put important concepts into easily digestible sound bite form like the right does, or continue getting dominated in state and congressional elections by "common sense" Republicans.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:34
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haveblue posted:Reminder (again) that making average people do a bunch of math to file their taxes is perpetuated by TurboTax to give itself a reason to exist. i'm actually curious but did turbotax get its poo poo pushed in wrt charging for things? i used it this year and it was saying how this year was special since all of their basic services were free but then it crammed their premium services down my throat at every opportunity
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Feb 12, 2016 17:40
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Business Gorillas posted:i used it this year and it was saying how this year was special since all of their basic services were free but then it crammed their premium services down my throat at every opportunity They all do this. I usually use TaxAct and it asks you several times if you want to upgrade. It's looking like I might have to run with Turbo Tax this year since the TaxAct website isn't working properly for me for some reason.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:44
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fknlo posted:They all do this. I usually use TaxAct and it asks you several times if you want to upgrade. It's looking like I might have to run with Turbo Tax this year since the TaxAct website isn't working properly for me for some reason. just do them yourself using the IRS's online stuff. unless you have a complicated tax situation it's very easy. our terrible math instruction is why so many americans are terrified of simple arithmetic. its for that reason that i'm a big common core supporter, as the methods taught there are far easier to use.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:52
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Inferior Third Season posted:If you try to explain to people what an effective tax rate is, they will give up trying to understand because it becomes "complicated". Nope, just say "go to [website] and it'll calculate it for you". Keep in mind this is also in tandem with a shift in media narrative. Right now the media reports on "Top rates are [x]" which gets people thinking "Rich people pay [x] in taxes".
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Feb 12, 2016 17:53
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Inferior Third Season posted:If you try to explain to people what an effective tax rate is, they will give up trying to understand because it becomes "complicated". Empirically this isn't true when you start accounting for lovely payroll systems. It's why it's hard to overcome.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:53
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There's a lot of people for whom a very complicated tax code and a mystified electorate benefit. Not anyone who should be benefiting from it of course.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:54
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DeRay made two web videos for his mayoral campaign, which you can watch here. Campaign slogan: "Love is the why".
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Feb 12, 2016 17:58
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haveblue posted:Reminder (again) that making average people do a bunch of math to file their taxes is perpetuated by TurboTax to give itself a reason to exist.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:59
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Alright I don't want to hear another thing from you motherfuckers about how Ted Cruz can't pass legislation.. https://twitter.com/nielslesniewski/status/698190690652680192 quote:As the hold on the State Department nominees was lifted, Cruz managed to secure Senate passage, also by voice vote, of a measure to designate the area outside the new Chinese Embassy along Van Ness Street in Northwest D.C., as the “Liu Xiaobo Plaza.” That would honor the pro-democracy leader and longtime political prisoner.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:08
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Inferior Third Season posted:A large swath of the population is unable to do literally middle school level math, yet they get to vote. It's such bullshit. There really needs to be some sort of common minimum test voters have to pass, maybe something as simple as literacy
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Feb 12, 2016 18:08
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:It's such bullshit. There really needs to be some sort of common minimum test voters have to pass, maybe something as simple as literacy A small fee would keep the riffraff out, in my opinion.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:09
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:It's such bullshit. There really needs to be some sort of common minimum test voters have to pass, maybe something as simple as literacy And we don't want to make people take the same tests over and over again. Maybe we can "grandfather" them in if they've already shown enough aptitude.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:10
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Quote of the day, "We haven't actually made direct contact with aliens yet." ~ Barack Obama, lying, obviously.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:18
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:It's such bullshit. There really needs to be some sort of common minimum test voters have to pass, maybe something as simple as literacy Wasn't the whole deal with literacy tests that whites didn't have to take them at all?
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Feb 12, 2016 18:19
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "We haven't actually made direct contact with aliens yet." ~ Barack Obama, lying, obviously. So that's confirming indirect contact, right? Radbot posted:Wasn't the whole deal with literacy tests that whites didn't have to take them at all? It was up to the local election official. So completely fair! You know, the angry old white person who sounded so deflated when she found my name on the voter rolls and it matched my ID.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:21
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Radbot posted:Wasn't the whole deal with literacy tests that whites didn't have to take them at all? Sometimes. Often they were designed in a way that an answer could be interpreted as correct or incorrect based on who was taking the test.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:25
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Trabisnikof posted:So that's confirming indirect contact, right? 
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Feb 12, 2016 18:25
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computer parts posted:Nope, just say "go to [website] and it'll calculate it for you". That's fine, but the problem is that people need at least an intuitive sense of "I can't make less money if I get a raise" in order to have any kind of reasonable public discourse on taxes. If you don't understand that, you literally cannot comprehend how any changes to the tax code will affect you.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:30
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How are y'all celebrating the 10th anniversary of Dick Cheney shooting a man in the face?
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Feb 12, 2016 18:30
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zoux posted:How are y'all celebrating the 10th anniversary of Dick Cheney shooting a man in the face?
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Feb 12, 2016 18:33
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Paradoxish posted:That's fine, but the problem is that people need at least an intuitive sense of "I can't make less money if I get a raise" in order to have any kind of reasonable public discourse on taxes. If you don't understand that, you literally cannot comprehend how any changes to the tax code will affect you. And the reason why people don't know that is that they hear tax bracket and think "If I make over a certain amount of money, I get taxed more". Note that that's not even false, it's just only applicable for a certain pool of money. It's a fundamental problem with the way tax brackets work. It's much easier to give people a calculator and show them that their rate doesn't go up by much (if at all) if they get a raise.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:33
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computer parts posted:And the reason why people don't know that is that they hear tax bracket and think "If I make over a certain amount of money, I get taxed more". Note that that's not even false, it's just only applicable for a certain pool of money. But their take home could seem to decrease on their actual paycheck which is part of the problem.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:35
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Let's remember that for most of these people this idea of "oh no not a raise leading to higher taxes" isn't even happening, they're just concerned that when They Finally Make It they're going to be taxed more. No one has ever turned down a raise due to increasing tax brackets.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:37
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computer parts posted:And the reason why people don't know that is that they hear tax bracket and think "If I make over a certain amount of money, I get taxed more". Note that that's not even false, it's just only applicable for a certain pool of money. Not to mention that at some point it stops going up at all. zoux posted:Let's remember that for most of these people this idea of "oh no not a raise leading to higher taxes" isn't even happening, they're just concerned that when They Finally Make It they're going to be taxed more. Also because of the media glorifying the .01%, what counts as making it is now so unrealistic that no one ever feels like they've "made it". Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 18:37
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zoux posted:Let's remember that for most of these people this idea of "oh no not a raise leading to higher taxes" isn't even happening, they're just concerned that when They Finally Make It they're going to be taxed more. Yeah but even with that in mind an effective tax rate changes the calculus. A guy saying "my taxes are 15% but if i'm rich I'll pay 20%" is a lot more benign than "my taxes are 15% but if I'm rich I'll pay 35%!"
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Feb 12, 2016 18:39
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zoux posted:Let's remember that for most of these people this idea of "oh no not a raise leading to higher taxes" isn't even happening, they're just concerned that when They Finally Make It they're going to be taxed more. I've actually heard people argue they refused a promotion because the taxes made the extra money not worth the extra work. I'm not saying their story is true, but that's at least the world they live in.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:39
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Trabisnikof posted:So that's confirming indirect contact, right? What does that mean exactly? Like, we have secret evidence they're out there, observing us, but no one's actually said anything to each other?
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Feb 12, 2016 18:41
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Freakazoid_ posted:What does that mean exactly? Like, we have secret evidence they're out there, observing us, but no one's actually said anything to each other? We have evidence they exist but can't communicate, or evidence they did exist but we have no proof they still do, or the lizard people have met the aliens but humans haven't yet.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:43
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Freakazoid_ posted:What does that mean exactly? Like, we have secret evidence they're out there, observing us, but no one's actually said anything to each other? We flew the helicopter with the light display up to the saucer but so far we have.....wait....something is happening......
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Feb 12, 2016 18:44
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