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The Ape of Naples posted:I suppose. I just wanted someone to have said "gently caress yeah, he was going for his gun." Not because I agree with it but it just seems like the most true interpretation of the situation and what they always dreamed of. Saying he was surrendering seems disingenuous and against what they were, up to that point, preaching. It's why they all had their guns. It's why they believe the 2nd amendment exists. To take down the tyrants. And when he seems to do that they all back away from that rhetoric. I mean I get it. If they do follow that line of reasoning it just shows how impotent there movement is. I know I'm not articulating it well. An important thing to note is that this "brave last stand" ended with him being shot before he could even get out his gun, making it less of an empowering sight than a display of weakness. If he managed to shoot someone, I'm sure there'd be some followers crowing about it, but he didn't. He just failed completely, so they're desperately trying to take attention away from that to find some form of consolation by playing up his weakness to benefit them. It's not really different than what you'd get from a schoolyard bully (these people are mentally spoiled children, after all): if you pick a fight you can't win, then you start crying about how mean the other side was for picking on innocent old you for sympathy as consolation.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:07
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Mortanis posted:They need to fight this very public battle because Fighting The Good Fight means they win, even if (when) they lose. They'll go down screaming because it gives them a very public forum and because it's the fight itself that matters, not so much the victory (getting rid of liberals/abortion/taxes would just be a side benefit). And when something like this pops up and fails, it's never a loss, it's "only the beginning." In their minds, they are so sure of their eventually victory that even their failures must be viewed as victories. If, in response to Finicum's death, America had revolted and started a revolution, then it surely would have been a victory. But since he was shot and no revolution occurred, then that is also a victory, because they are "waking people up." The same goes for the Frantic 4, who had to re-imagine their humiliating defeat and the complete failure of their comrades to come to their aid as not a "surrender," but only the beginning of the complete realization of their plans. These losers just cannot lose.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:26
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ToastyPotato posted:Not before beating them into submission to see your point of view and making them "one of the good ones" Yeah don't think about it too much, just shut up and put on the (rose tinted) glasses.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:36
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The Ape of Naples posted:Yeah, I thought it was kind of weird. The narratives they put out there was at first, he was surrendering and on his knees. Then the video comes out and they all said he had his hands up and was shot. They never tried to make him into a real hero, martyr for the cause. One willing to kill and die for what he believed in. Ultimately the message was give up. I wonder what response they would have had if they just straight up said "yeah, he tried to run over and then take out his gun and shoot his oppressors." I bet more of the 'patriot' types would have been all over that. Heck maybe some would have headed out to the refuge. I think it's because the whole rhetoric relies on the idea that the jackbooted thugs of the government are so incredibly corrupt and evil that they have to be fought. They need the government to strike the first blow because it "proves" their point and justifies fighting back as self-defense. Finicum was on the verge of being arrested unharmed and only got killed when he made a failed attempt to kill others. It's much more valuable to their rhetoric and internalized beliefs that Finicum be an innocent man executed wrongly, because him trying to draw his gun and getting shot for it makes it his own drat fault. Instead, they contort in bizarre ways ("He was skillfully shot in the side so that, by grasping at his wound, he would look like he's drawing a gun on the drone camera!") to make it look like their beliefs in the government's infinite evil is accurate. This is also likely why the final siege of the remaining 4 occupiers didn't end in a bloody way. Sandy and Sean in particular were totally nuts, screaming about how they had no way to fight from prison and the only way they could continue fighting tyranny was to die with their boots on at Camp Finicum....but they never fired a shot. They talked all about how they'd shoot back for any kind of offensive action (even non-lethal actions like tear gassing them) in "self-defense", but they'd never fire a shot themselves. A big part of it may have been an unwillingness to actually die (death is pretty final as far as we know, so it takes some incredibly huge balls or incredible insanity to willingly die before your body gives out on its own) or kill someone, but it was likely also a need for their fight to be one of defense against tyranny. Once the glorious Second American Revolution was on they could obviously engage in ambushes and such under wartime duress, but before that they needed the evil empire to strike the first blow. It simultaneously gets them support from the public and makes shooting FBI agents with families and kids in the eye justifiable. In the end, it obviously didn't work out that way. The government and police of the United States are pretty drat corrupt and do some pretty unarguably awful things, but the FBI isn't so densely evil as to send in gunship strikes or wipe out innocent campers (that's the job of the Philadelphia Police). So they just ended up talking a big game before giving up.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:52
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Mercury_Storm posted:Yeah I grew up around the same or a similar group of people, and the persecution complex is seemingly central to their very existence. They need some sort of battle to be fought, whether it's against an imaginary oppressive government, or literally spirits (biblical angels and demons) fighting in another dimension for/against their livelihood. The answer is an old one. (usual caveat- the actual John Dickinson was not by most measures remotely dickish or evil)
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Feb 15, 2016 21:54
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Discendo Vox posted:The answer is an old one. "Sit down, John, sit down. For God's sake, John, sit down!"
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Feb 15, 2016 22:31
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chitoryu12 posted:I think it's because the whole rhetoric relies on the idea that the jackbooted thugs of the government are so incredibly corrupt and evil that they have to be fought. They need the government to strike the first blow because it "proves" their point and justifies fighting back as self-defense. Finicum was on the verge of being arrested unharmed and only got killed when he made a failed attempt to kill others. It's much more valuable to their rhetoric and internalized beliefs that Finicum be an innocent man executed wrongly, because him trying to draw his gun and getting shot for it makes it his own drat fault. Instead, they contort in bizarre ways ("He was skillfully shot in the side so that, by grasping at his wound, he would look like he's drawing a gun on the drone camera!") to make it look like their beliefs in the government's infinite evil is accurate. I think if they'd had a couple hundred people there feeding off each other's energy, they might have developed the groupthink necessary to take the offensive while still feeling like the good guys. Of course on a related note, in that case they would have had enough people for glorious battle. It's a little easier to psyche yourself up to die for Alamo 2016 than give your life for the wet fart that this turned out to be. But in any event it's hilarious to see them try to spin this. "It's so unfair, we're just peaceful protestors who took our guns to the protest so they wouldn't get lonely." "
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Feb 15, 2016 22:41
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It doesn't matter how stupid they are to never accept defeat as what it really is, this farce proved how cowardly, fat and lazy all of them are when push comes to shove. They can whiz their Admiralty Winkers, blow on their Tarp Tinkers and swing their Kenyan beaters. But all they'll produce is noise, noise and more noise until the fed gloves come off; then most of them will run away while holding their guns to try and look like they're tough even as their knees keep knocking and they distance themselves farther and farther away from where the action actually is. They expect some great force to aid them and do all the work for them and it will never come for them.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:10
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By the look of most of these comments here it sure seems to me people really do hate human rights & love government looting. The Bundys or Hammonds never burned any homes down while the Government BLM have burned down 200 or so homes with millions of bucks in Infrastructure damage to the land & cattle & they'res no compensation or charges for it., While the Bundys haven't signed a new contract with them & paid no money in years , hey I don't blame them. The new contract was setup in a way to drive them of the land so the gov could steal that land for their own filthy greedy profit to extract it's resources while at same time poisoning it as they always do. But hey, if you didn't know that well then obviously you've been towing The Mainstream Media Line that tells you what they want you to hear so you never get the real truth, & that is ignorance. How about spending allot more time on the internet & watching many of the youtube videos so you can see what really is going on & preferably not Lamestream Media ones that are just to hoodwink you all to their bogus lies conflict of interest networks. The sooner that people see the government for what they really are, the better. Cause they only care for themselves & not us for their just greedy parasites that are hijacked by filthy rich globalist elitists that only care to exploit & enslave us. How is it ever right when government are allowed to murder people & get away with while they gonna try the Bundys on trumped up BS charges that make them sound like terrorists because the government just make it up as they go along to sweep the truth under the carpet by whatever means. The Government is on a mission of Collectivism to get control of as much land as possible which is all a part of their Agenda 21 Plan to herd you all like cattle into the cities & have you living in squaler like sardine crammed can apartments. Google it to go educate yourselves about this cause it's one big plan that's very real that is also called The WIldlands Project. The Government wants to screw almost all of us over by design & you've probably got no idea about it because why? maybe your drinking their Pesticide RatSac Dammed Fluoride cool aid water that has turned many of you into dumb sheep cause that Fluoride has destroyed your Pineal Gland & when you die of cancer you'll be wondering which Government Eugenics measure is in it's process to killing you. Why would any of you trust your government while they are crapping in your food with GMO's & many other nastys poison in the water , Spraying Chemtrail Barium & Ehtlylene Di Bromide in the air, Cor-Exit in the oil spills, nuclear radiation premeditadidly dumped in the oceans & used to bomb innocent people with in war zones. & Shal Gas Fraking that will poison almost all Artesian Ground Bore drinking water. The Government is to blame for all of this cause all these crimes are things that the government can fix in a heartbeat but instead they opt for their love child corporations to implement most of these measures to screw us over. A corporation will kill a shitload of people & the only charge will come down in a High COurt for just how big a fine is to be paid at the cost of expendable human life in their eyes. If you people choose to stay ignorant & then things get really bad well then remember all this I have told you when you's had the choice to WAKE UP & then wake others up so SHTF can be prevented. There really is a bigger picture to all of this but if you really want to know you should go learn about yourself. > http://911essentials.com/ <
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Feb 16, 2016 00:14
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David who let you near a computer?
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Feb 16, 2016 00:17
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Source your quotes.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:22
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*scrolls up, expecting to see Lottery Of Babylon AV* ...huh.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:29
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gently caress you, I can recognize a Markov chain when I see one.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:30
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Strange, that post attempts proper capitalization and has more than two lines. XMNN might be cribbing from someone.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:34
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It's Kyoon.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:39
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XMNN posted:By the look of most of these comments here it sure seems to me people really do hate human rights & love government looting. The Bundys or Hammonds never burned any homes down while the Government BLM have burned down 200 or so homes with millions of bucks in Infrastructure damage to the land & cattle & they'res no compensation or charges for it., While the Bundys haven't signed a new contract with them & paid no money in years , hey I don't blame them. The new contract was setup in a way to drive them of the land so the gov could steal that land for their own filthy greedy profit to extract it's resources while at same time poisoning it as they always do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=?gvdf5n-zI14
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Feb 16, 2016 00:53
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McNerd posted:I think if they'd had a couple hundred people there feeding off each other's energy, they might have developed the groupthink necessary to take the offensive while still feeling like the good guys. No the sad part? I really think that if they had started firing and had started a fire fight with the FBI, or even the police at any point, they might have gotten more militia up there to help with the fight
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Feb 16, 2016 02:49
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:No the sad part? I really think that if they had started firing and had started a fire fight with the FBI, or even the police at any point, they might have gotten more militia up there to help with the fight I'd be surprised if that's actually how it went down. If an actual firefight occurred with the FBI, the militia would be so outclassed in terms of skill and gear that it would have probably been a one-sided bloodbath. Any more militia running in to "help with the fight" would arrive hours after the bodies had been carted out and any survivors surrendered, and would be turned away at gunpoint or shot on sight if they tried to run the roadblocks.
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Feb 16, 2016 03:15
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chitoryu12 posted:I'd be surprised if that's actually how it went down. If an actual firefight occurred with the FBI, the militia would be so outclassed in terms of skill and gear that it would have probably been a one-sided bloodbath. Any more militia running in to "help with the fight" would arrive hours after the bodies had been carted out and any survivors surrendered, and would be turned away at gunpoint or shot on sight if they tried to run the roadblocks. Yes, but can you imagine how that would invigorate them? It would be everything their "GUBBERMINT TAKIN' ARE LIBBERTEHS" fantasies ever were and more.
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Feb 16, 2016 03:17
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And here we have a very rare 'Conspiracy theorist'! Ohh man, look at the walls of text on *this* one. Crikey, he's a beaut. They're fascinating creatures, very rare in this neck of the 'net. Can't tell what gender it is. . .Gonna have to stick my finger in it's butt to find out, but it's already pretty riled up. They can often times be calmed down by saying certain phrases that make them think you're not hostile to them. Case in point. . . "Jet fuel can't melt Steel Beams" "Jet Fuel can't melt Steel Beams" That's one of their common mating calls, and hopefully should convince the cute little bugga that I'm not trying to hurt him. They're not what I'd call stupid, but they sure are gullible. Tend to believe anything they're told as long as it's against the government or makes them feel like they're special. Sort of like knowers of an ancient secret, or like Cassandra from the ancient greek myths. Giving predictions that nobody'll believe. Unfortunately said predictions tend to never actually happen, so it's less that they're like Cass and more like they're just a bit off their rocker. Gorgeous specimen here though. I'm going for that butt now, hopefully that'll let us see what gender they are!
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Feb 16, 2016 03:28
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Is XMNN real or a joke I can't tell.
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Feb 16, 2016 03:59
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It looks really blatantly copy/pasted but I don't know from where.
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Feb 16, 2016 04:01
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Broken Link
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Feb 16, 2016 04:18
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DeathSandwich posted:Broken Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
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Feb 16, 2016 04:20
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Great, after listening to Gavin's stream, youtube thinks I want to see lots of videos from SovCits and other nutcases. There's one that's labled "The Secret Call that proves..." without explaining what it proves, but the thumbnail shows Bundy, Fry and LaVoy, so I'm going to assume its about a secret call that proves that the FBI executed LaVoy and planned on doing that to the others. It won't actually feature the call but refer to an "inside source" or some other impossible to verify source with zero proof, but will be eaten up by the CT crowd.
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Feb 16, 2016 04:29
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twistedmentat posted:Great, after listening to Gavin's stream, youtube thinks I want to see lots of videos from SovCits and other nutcases. Yeah I'm getting tons of Gavin's videos now too (hence the one I posted earlier). His latest was about the "secret" call that ended the standoff. He never got around to saying what that call was, who was involved, or anything relevant. At least I couldn't tell if he did.
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Feb 16, 2016 04:39
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Crain posted:Yeah I'm getting tons of Gavin's videos now too (hence the one I posted earlier). His latest was about the "secret" call that ended the standoff. Well, it is a secret call. 
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Feb 16, 2016 04:59
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twistedmentat posted:Great, after listening to Gavin's stream, youtube thinks I want to see lots of videos from SovCits and other nutcases. Clickbait is the only way they can get their loony toons message out there Crain posted:Yeah I'm getting tons of Gavin's videos now too (hence the one I posted earlier). His latest was about the "secret" call that ended the standoff. It was the FBI offering a cookie and a pizza There's always an excuse, even if they have to make one up. Lying was the one thing that they did better than prepping for this...not by much though SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 07:32
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Sedge and Bee posted:Is XMNN real or a joke I can't tell. He made the exact same post in the GBS thread, too.
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Feb 16, 2016 07:46
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Gorilla Salad posted:He made the exact same post in the GBS thread, too. It's from The Oregonian's comment section, I was enchanted by the way it meanders through all the classic conspiracy theories and ends in a link to a truther site.
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Feb 16, 2016 09:47
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SocketWrench posted:It was the FBI offering a cookie and a pizza. And yelling hallelujah!
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Feb 16, 2016 10:09
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Mortanis posted:To put it with the mildest comparison possible, it's a lot like certain people and Christmas. If you're going to talk about evangelicals that must fight The Dark Evil Liberal Government AT ALL COSTS then they believe they win just by fighting. The people that believe Christianity is being besieged on all sides believe that, by fighting, they win even if they lose because they are the ones that go to Heaven. The Godless liberals that murder and eat babies do not. Followers of The Antichrist (i.e, whichever prominent influential leaders they disagree with in any way whatsoever) will also go to Hell. They genuinely believe that the right thing to do is exterminate the gays, ban all non-Christian faiths, and so forth because God will reward the faithful for such actions. Even if they fail to accomplish those things merely trying at all will get them into Heaven. They must have unswerving, unshakable faith in the Almighty and His works; they must praise the name of Jesus at all times. Absolutely everything that diminishes the influence of The One True Faith (as in, theirs) is the influence of the devil and must be opposed at all times, at all costs. This is why even the merest hint of "hey some people don't celebrate Christmas so you can do your thing but don't shove it on everybody else, thanks" is viewed as "  SATAN IS COMING TO DESTROY US!!!!" The only people that get a pass are Jews. Everybody else must be forced to fall in line for their own good.These are people that genuinely believe things like God causing 9/11 to happen to punish America for its tolerance of gays. Given that Christianity is on the decline in America and their way of life is no longer being forced on everybody whether they like it or not they believe that The End Times are coming very soon so they must go down fighting. They expect to lose as there will be a time between them "losing" and eventually winning will happen. The belief, based on Revelations, is that there will be some real good times for the non-faithful before Armageddon comes and the unfaithful are destroyed once and for all. Which is the other side of it; they believe they win by default because God will smite the unfaithful in the end. Those that fight, even in the face of knowing they'll lose in the short term, will be rewarded forever. Those who waver aren't faithful enough and will be punished severely forever.
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Feb 16, 2016 10:24
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twistedmentat posted:Great, after listening to Gavin's stream, youtube thinks I want to see lots of videos from SovCits and other nutcases. https://youtu.be/1pBougV1JK4
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Feb 16, 2016 10:34
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XMNN posted:Hey, that's not true, I added line breaks to this one! Lines like "Shal Gas Fraking" made me think it was just a deliberately misspelled parody. It did seem to hit way too many of the stock points. Chem trails and 9/11 man, major blasts from the past.
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Feb 16, 2016 13:42
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Sov Cit radio host sets the record straight about thursday morning with a secret radio call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhPmeyVoqI0 pillsburysoldier fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 14:07
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pillsburysoldier posted:Sov Cit radio host sets the record straight about thursday morning with a secret radio call Can someone with more patience watch that and give the the tl;dw?
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Feb 16, 2016 16:38
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You know how Gavin and that lady were badgering David for like three hours and he almost committed suicide, and then David talked to the fbi negotiator for a bit and he surrendered? Well, the fbi doing something that prevents David from going on a shooting rampage conflicts with the SovCit narrative that the fbi wanted a bloodbath, so Gavin asserts that the fbi negotiator did nothing to help David, but instead David heard a ~top secret~ message from Ammon, smuggled out of prison, and that is what saved him.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:03
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In short, just purestrain, unfiltered crazy? About what I was guessing. Also this part amuses me so much:Bobulus posted:Well, the fbi doing something that prevents David from going on a shooting rampage conflicts with the SovCit narrative that the fbi wanted a bloodbath, "They avoiding doing the thing Sadly the actual "logic" is probably something more like this: "Guys, the evil gubmint is doing everything they can to avoid acting like out view of an evil gubmint!" "That's how you know they're the evil gubmint, they're doing everything they can to avoid acting like an evil gubmint! If they weren't evil they'd be doing exactly what we want and looking like the jackbooted thugs we imagine they are instead of letting us wallow in our own filth and stupidity to undermine our message!"
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Feb 16, 2016 17:13
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Bobulus posted:You know how Gavin and that lady were badgering David for like three hours and he almost committed suicide, and then David talked to the fbi negotiator for a bit and he surrendered? Your teeth! The signals enter in through a transmitter secretly implanted in your teeth...not making this up folks. You don't need to take them out to make sure you're safe, but if you don't make sure you're always chewing on some gummy candy to scatter and dampen the signal. Use sugar-free to avoid the weight-gain! .....// 
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Feb 16, 2016 17:23
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What kills me is, even if you accept that David somehow had an extra, secret radio that no one knew about, you have to ignore the following observable facts: - David said he would come out if the FBI shouted 'hallelujah', and then they did, and he left. If they wanted him to die in a blaze of gunfire, they would not have shouted 'hallelujah'. - We have audio-recording of David's last few hours inside the refuge. When, exactly, was this secret radio message supposed to have been played? - If David was so boosted by a secret message by Ammon, why would he be yelling things about how he 'didn't care about the cause'? It's so easily disprovable. It's really sad.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:43
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