|
Because it's really troubling if you look at droids as a slavery analogue.
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 00:02 |
|
|
It's a strange sort of inversion of cogito ergo sum. I am, therefore I don't think. It's also a single syllable away from "I'm not paid to think" - and
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:33
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:As you can see from the varied responses, it's one of those things that's not conveyed very effectively. If this is true, then considering how you've been arguing what the meaning of scenes and themes in the prequels are for literally years in this thread, wouldn't that also mean the prequels didn't convey things effectively? I'm not saying it's true. But I don't like your implication here that debate about the meaning of a scene suddenly, in this case, means the scene wasn't well done or didn't convey a message well. Varied opinions and ways of seeing a scene is kind of what we do here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 14:53
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:The punching is a old bad guy thing and nothing more - countless movies show enemies pressing / hitting / whatever to their wounds to psych themselves up - IT DON'T loving HuRT!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2S9hktKcnA
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 16:30
|
|
|
feedmyleg posted:Because it's really troubling if you look at droids as a slavery analogue. I may be misreading you, but it totally strengthens the droids=slaves idea. "It's above my pay-grade" is programmed into their heads, although since they are sentient, they can think their way around it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 17:49
|
|
|
feedmyleg posted:Because it's really troubling if you look at droids as a slavery analogue. But it's a funny line, and it would've worked very well with
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:If this is true, then considering how you've been arguing what the meaning of scenes and themes in the prequels are for literally years in this thread, wouldn't that also mean the prequels didn't convey things effectively? It's a question of why the debate is occurring. With the Kylo Ren scene, fans have defaulted to saying he's angry or something, because the film hasn't provided much idea of what's going on. There's little choice but to use a line from Episode 1 as an explanation. Yoda say anger leads to the dark side, so obviously Kylo must be increasing his anger levels so that he can and power up his darkness...?? As a contrast, nobody is confused by the scene where Yoda throws down his cane and pulls out a tiny sword. The debate is over whether the scene should exist, whether it's 'supposed to be' funny, whether it disrespects Yoda, and so-on. But nobody is confused about what Yoda is doing. ungulateman posted:It's also a single syllable away from "I'm not paid to think" - and The made/paid pun is fantastic. Imagine C3PO: "We seem to be paid to suffer. It's our lot in life." SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:
A reasonable belief, considering he's constantly angry and frustrated like good ol Grampy Slavermurderer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
ungulateman posted:Holy poo poo this excerpt from the opening of the TPM script I love the introduction of the jedi as "two darkly robed figures".
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Imagine C3PO: "We seem to be paid to suffer. It's our lot in life." At that point your just describing Anthony Daniels.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:At that point your just describing Anthony Daniels. Oh but he just loves it so much.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
The current controversy is whether disney will "let" Finn and Poe be a couple. http://io9.gizmodo.com/will-disney-ever-let-the-force-awakens-finn-and-poe-be-1759715797
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2016 23:13
|
|
|
I'm going to be hugely disappointed if Snoke doesn't turn out to be Darth Plagueis. In the same way that it doesn't feel quite like Star Wars for the story not to be told through the lens of C-3PO and R2-D2, it seems weirdly off-kilter to have the universe in motion without the Emperor pulling the strings. From I-VI, Palpatine was always a sort of meta-author of the series- he created Anakin out of thin air, after all. So if Snoke is just another bad-dude who holds equal or lesser influence than Palpatine did, the whole thing will feel like an afterthought, rather than an escalation. It is a perfect narrative fit as well- Plagueis goes into hiding after surviving a botched assassination attempt from Palpatine, and emerges in VII even more powerful than before (which would basically mirror Palpatine's arc in III-IV as well). If this were all true of course, the sensible thing to do would've been to have Snoke revealed as Plagueis in the same scene where it's revealed that Kylo Ren is the son of Solo, simply by having Ren refer say "yes, Lord Plagueis" at a certain point. It would serve a number of functions: a) Establish a direct familial link between Kylo and Snoke, thus continuing the fathers and sons trope b) Establish a direct familial connection between Luke and Snoke, thus bringing them both deeper into the plot, rather than making them both feel somewhat vestigial c) Create a wonderful double-plot twist in one sequence where we find out that Plagueis is Luke's grandfather, and Kylo's great-grandfather. d) Establish a nice narrative arc with the prequels It seems completely obvious to me that this is what they should've done. It's impossible for me to imagine any narrative construct that would be more appropriate and fulfilling than this. Even from a business perspective it is sound- of all of the lightning rod characters/concepts from the prequels (of which I am a big fan), Plagueis is one of the more obscure, and towards which people probably feel the most ambivalent or have no familiarity with. Someone convince me that it's going to be ok when we find out that Snoke is just another evil dude lurking in the shadows.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:Palpatine created Anakin out of thin air, after all. Huh?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
It's heavily implied throughout the prequels, and particularly in Palpatine's story of Darth Plagueis the Wise, that Anakin was created by Palpatine (hence Anakin having no known father). Thus Palpatine, Anakin, and Luke are of one lineage, and the movies are centrally about Anakin's struggling allegiance to his father and son. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLfGh2b_me0 As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, Palpatine is essentially giving Anakin the Sith version of "the birds and the bees" chat in front of a giant fertilizing egg. He also frequently addresses Anakin as "son" Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Feb 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
Corek posted:The current controversy is whether disney will "let" Finn and Poe be a couple. Click the link inside this link called "that lip-bite" to make clicking on this link worthwhile. Jewmanji posted:I'm going to be hugely disappointed if Snoke doesn't turn out to be Darth Plagueis. We found this out a month before the movie came out.  http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/12/star-wars-andy-serkis-supreme-leader-snoke Andy Serkis posted:No, he’s a new character in this universe. It is very much a newly-introduced character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
I know you posted that with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek, but seriously, who's to say Serkis knows himself? The twist of ESB was kept from all but 2-3 people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
I'm still unsure of how Plageuis managed to be Luke's grandfather in all this somehow.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
turtlecrunch posted:We found this out a month before the movie came out. I'll believe that when I've seen Episode IX.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
I mean that means taking Palpatine at his word during his most manipulative speech and also believe schmi when she said there was no father even tho uh that's not how babies work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
Also I hope Kylo isn't hideously scarred. He's so handsome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I mean that means taking Palpatine at his word during his most manipulative speech and also believe schmi when she said there was no father even tho uh that's not how babies work. You don't find it at all compelling that there's an all-knowing character who claims to have the ability to create life, speaking to a character whose origins are the virgin birth, who he refers to as "son"? euphronius posted:Also I hope Kylo isn't hideously scarred. He's so handsome. Yeah, he's strangely magnetic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
Poor Shmi. Raped by the force and a village of Sand People and probably Watto knowing that dude.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:24
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I mean that means taking Palpatine at his word during his most manipulative speech and also believe schmi when she said there was no father even tho uh that's not how babies work. Who could ever imagine of a Chosen One coming from a virgin birth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:It's heavily implied throughout the prequels, and particularly in Palpatine's story of Darth Plagueis the Wise, that Anakin was created by Palpatine (hence Anakin having no known father). Thus Palpatine, Anakin, and Luke are of one lineage, and the movies are centrally about Anakin's struggling allegiance to his father and son. I dunno man, I see where you are coming from but after re-watching ROTS last night, for the first time in years, the Plagueis story seemed like something that Palpatine just made up on the spot after sensing Anakin's doubt.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Who could ever imagine of a Chosen One coming from a virgin birth. Yeah exactly. It's a ridiculous myth. Pretty cynical use by Lucas. Of course the Jedi believe Schmis rape story as some ridiculous prophecy fulfillment. They are blind to her.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
Palps story was perfectly tuned to change Anakins political allegiance. It was so expertly crafted that you have to doubt it. Although to argue against myself as someone pointed out earlier the whole speech takes place in front of sperm impregnating eggs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
I'm not so sure Snoke is going to end up being a character who was never shown and only ever mentioned once, in a single scene, in a single Star Wars movie. I mean, at that point, why not just have him be a totally new character?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
My favorite idea is datacron.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 01:55
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, Palpatine is essentially giving Anakin the Sith version of "the birds and the bees" chat in front of a giant fertilizing egg. He also frequently addresses Anakin as "son" For what it's worth, and going by the script, Palpatine calls Anakin "son" just once. This occurs in Episode 3, well before the discussion at the opera : Revenge of the Sith posted:
Anakin later describes Palpatine as a mentor and a friend. When Padme references Anakin's relationship to Obi-wan, she uses the same choice of words, "mentor" and "friend," but Anakin corrects her: "He's been a father to me." This is shortly before the opera scene. Whether the viewer is meant to infer that either Plagueis or Palpatine was the one to "influence the midichlorians" to create Anakin is one thing, but is there anything at all in the film (or maybe Clone Wars?) to suggest that Anakin picks up on it in the slightest?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:07
|
|
|
It's ambiguous on purpose.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:08
|
|
|
Well Manicured Man posted:I'm not so sure Snoke is going to end up being a character who was never shown and only ever mentioned once, in a single scene, in a single Star Wars movie. The first two trilogies are all about defeating the Emperor, the symbol of ultimate evil in the Star Wars universe. The thinking is that it would be a bit jarring, from a mythic perspective, if the third installment in this trilogy of trilogies was suddenly about defeating some never-before-mentioned figure who has no connection with the Emperor. If Snoke turned out to be the prime mover who gave rise to the Emperor in the first place, it would bring things full circle, not to mention automatically establishing his credentials as a threat comparable to or greater than Palpatine. I wouldn't count on it playing out that way, though. ShineDog posted:Yeah, they should have looked towards the SWTOR star destroyers, which look different enough, have a new interesting element in the cutaway, and still look intrinsically star destroyery (ironically this makes them kind of weird when they supposedly appeared thousands of years before the movies, but whatev) I always liked these designs:   At a glance, it's immediately obvious that they're Star Destroyers, but it's also immediately obvious that they're something totally new and different from:  But yes, I know, I know, I ask for too much. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Feb 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:The first two trilogies are all about defeating the Emperor, the symbol of ultimate evil in the Star Wars universe. The thinking is that it would be a bit jarring, from a mythic perspective, if the third installment in this trilogy of trilogies was suddenly about defeating some never-before-mentioned figure who has no connection with the Emperor. If Snoke turned out to be the prime mover who gave rise to the Emperor in the first place, it would bring things full circle, not to mention automatically establishing his credentials as a threat comparable to or greater than Palpatine. Yes. Thinking about it in the inverse, people would be totally flummoxed if the person Rey and Finn spend VII searching for is just some random old Jedi that's been in hiding for 30 years that no one has heard of before. They''d say, "wait, why not just put Luke into this slot, it makes perfect sense". Another benefit to having Snoke be Plagueis is that it also involves Leia and Han more. Leia really wasn't given much of anything to do in VII except stand around and wring her hands (though I'm sure she'll get something a little juicier in VIII). Having Snoke be her grandfather as well, and the person who orchestrates the murder of her estranged husband would bring both her and Han deeper into the plot. There's literally no way in which it's not a good idea. edit: Re: those star destroyer designs, that first one is totally rad. The second one is a little too Star Trek for me. The red and white coloring of the destroyers in III reminded me a bit of the Razzle Dazzle technique from WWI- it'd be a neat idea to bring in something like that (perhaps not quite that dramatic...)  Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Feb 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
On Droids being the same as people. I don't buy it too much. They are simply too loyal to their masters. Lets take Todo 360 from the Clone Wars series. He was a Techno Service Droid that worked for the Bounty Hunter Cad Bane. Though Bane did not hold much respect for him treating him very poorly. Todo "I am a Techno Service Droid, not a butler droid." Bane "Can it Todo, you are what I say you are." Todo "Frustrated mumbling.) Bane also lied to Todo about doing maintenance on him to plant a bomb in the droid. Which he used as a distraction against the Jedi after sending Todo the wrong way to distract them. Blowing the realizing he was going to explode droid up. Todo was rebuilt after this and went straight back into Bane's service despite the horrible treatment Bane put him through. I doubt even the most loyal person would go back to a master that deceived them and blew them up. Yet Todo did which makes a case for me that Droids are not proper beings.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:Yes. Thinking about it in the inverse, people would be totally flummoxed if the person Rey and Finn spend VII searching for is just some random old Jedi that's been in hiding for 30 years that no one has heard of before. They''d say, "wait, why not just put Luke into this slot, it makes perfect sense". It would also explain why Snoke's calling his movement the "First Order." He's what came before the "New Order" of Palpatine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
See guys? Droids aren't slaves because they're clearly too mistreated and disregarded by society to be slaves. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:edit: Re: those star destroyer designs, that first one is totally rad. The second one is a little too Star Trek for me. The red and white coloring of the destroyers in III reminded me a bit of the Razzle Dazzle technique from WWI- it'd be a neat idea to bring in something like that (perhaps not quite that dramatic...) One of the reasons I wish Jodorowsky's Dune got made (besides, like it's Jodorowsky's Dune holy poo poo) was that they were going to have all the ships be painted with crazy patterns and colors (some of which could change). The space backgrounds were going to be hyper colorful with tons of nebula and trials of gasses and stuff and the ships would use this as camouflage to blend in., the comparison was to elaborately colored fish that blend in very effectively with the specific types of coral and seaweed they live in.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:I always liked these designs: What are those two designs from? The top one seems semi-familiar, but the bottom one is new to me. I really dig both designs, either way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:42
|
|
|
There's no real reason to assume either Shmee or Palpatine are lying. Anakin is simply some kind of weird biological accident that Palpatine wishes to replicate. In any case, a rudimentary atheism isn't enough. Palpatine's talk of midichlorians is the punchline to what was set up in Episode 1. If the Jedi really are just psychic mutants, than there is nothing special about Anakin. It's as if God took a poo poo - something similar to the point of Roadside Picnic, where the magical artifacts that all pursue are probably just the garbage left by alien tourists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 00:02 |
|
|
Snoke is Small Luke in a nod to the Thrawn trilogy
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2016 02:52
|
|
