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So was the bridge sniper charged to? The best result of all would be to start the trial, read all the charges and possible sentencing and, just as the judge's voice fades, have Obama enter the court room and offer to pardon them all if they'd just take his hand.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:06
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chitoryu12 posted:The weight of the gun would also make it a bitch and a half to lug onto the refuge and position properly and enough ammo to be viable for defense would have likely cost close to $1000. Plus, you actually need the tactical knowledge to set it up in a good defensive position and fire it effectively. In the event of a raid it likely would have been useless noise. It's really not that heavy
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Feb 19, 2016 22:31
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Jarmak posted:It's really not that heavy The unloaded gun on the tripod weighs nearly 130 pounds. Do you really see three or four Y'all-Qaeda tubbies trying to shift its position and get it set up?
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Feb 19, 2016 22:35
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chitoryu12 posted:The unloaded gun on the tripod weighs nearly 130 pounds. Do you really see three or four Y'all-Qaeda tubbies trying to shift its position and get it set up? You generally don't carry it in one piece.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:40
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chitoryu12 posted:The unloaded gun on the tripod weighs nearly 130 pounds. Do you really see three or four Y'all-Qaeda tubbies trying to shift its position and get it set up? You take it off the tripod to move it.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:41
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Jarmak posted:You take it off the tripod to move it. Yeah, that's what normal people with a modicum of common sense would do. What about these guys?
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Feb 19, 2016 22:44
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Ratoslov posted:Yeah, that's what normal people with a modicum of common sense would do. What about these guys? I think we're taking this "look how dumb the rednecks are" a bit too far by suggesting they couldn't figure out to move a machine gun in two pieces, especially when this scenario necessarily involved one of them having spent a large amount of money and time acquiring it and probably uses it on a semi regular basis.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:51
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Ratoslov posted:Yeah, that's what normal people with a modicum of common sense would do. What about these guys? Anyone who legally owns a machine gun is going to know more about guns than you do.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:53
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Evil Fluffy posted:Anyone who legally owns a machine gun is going to know more about guns than you do. Why do you assume they'd follow federal law and own one legally.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:01
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Best result for the bridge sniper would be letting him use his preferred long range setup of iron sights and a flashlight and the muzzle jammed between some concrete to have one time special "target practice for freedom", except the freedom in this case is literal because if he bullseyes the targets he gets to go free
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Feb 19, 2016 23:06
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nm posted:Why do you assume they'd follow federal law and own one legally. In all seriousness, it's virtually impossible for them to illegally get a machine gun of that caliber unless they're a South American cartel boss or African warlord. Illegally owned machine guns are actually incredibly rare in the United States (historically, I believe only one murder was ever committed with a legally owned machine gun before the National Firearms Act of 1934) because of the high cost and small numbers. The majority of illegal firearms are actually small, low-powered handguns and inexpensive shotguns that are extremely inexpensive to buy and easy for black market dealers to acquire. The only illegal machine guns you'd be likely to see in the US would be illegally converted guns, like an AK with parts filed down to make it shoot full auto only.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:10
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nm posted:Why do you assume they'd follow federal law and own one legally. Not an American, but wouldn't that get a whole alphabet soup of agencies on your rear end to send you to double-prison?
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Feb 19, 2016 23:16
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Murderion posted:Not an American, but wouldn't that get a whole alphabet soup of agencies on your rear end to send you to double-prison? First you'd have to get your hands on one and good loving luck with that. Getting your hands on something like an AK isn't difficult but an actual, honest-to-god machine gun? Yeah. Isn't happening. You aren't finding one.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:18
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Murderion posted:Not an American, but wouldn't that get a whole alphabet soup of agencies on your rear end to send you to double-prison? Yes. It's an exceptionally bad idea and your fellow shooters will likely rat you out if they find out about it because no one wants to get hit with any of the poo poo that will fly when the feds drop on you like a thunderbolt.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:20
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Epic High Five posted:Best result for the bridge sniper would be letting him use his preferred long range setup of iron sights and a flashlight and the muzzle jammed between some concrete to have one time special "target practice for freedom", except the freedom in this case is literal because if he bullseyes the targets he gets to go free Using AK iron sights? Dude would be lucky to hit any BLM members past 50 yards. Murderion posted:Not an American, but wouldn't that get a whole alphabet soup of agencies on your rear end to send you to double-prison? For something like a .50 caliber machine gun, absolutely. Even privately owned, transferable ones are incredibly rare and cost as much as a new car, and just semi-auto receiver kits are over $9000. Even a Mafia don at the height of the mob's power in America would be hard pressed to get anything bigger than an AK or an old Vietnam-era M16. Anyone who managed to get an illegal, full auto heavy machine gun would probably be at "warlord" levels of power.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:23
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nm posted:Why do you assume they'd follow federal law and own one legally. I'd honestly be very impressed with some random militia nut who manages to illegally own a 50 caliber machinegun and not get caught. You'd have to own and operate it entirely in secret because if your militia buddies know then the Feds are going to know even if one of your buddies isn't an undercover Fed. Hell even if it's a Fed or local cop/deputy who's 100% on board with the militia movement they'd turn on you for it if for no other reason than self-preservation.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:27
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chitoryu12 posted:Using AK iron sights? Dude would be lucky to hit any BLM members past 50 yards. I'm guessing they're also not that useful for crime, for most circumstances a pistol or even a knife will threaten/kill people just as good. The only reason you'd ever want one is to wage war on the... federal... government.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:31
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Murderion posted:I'm guessing they're also not that useful for crime, for most circumstances a pistol or even a knife will threaten/kill people just as good. The only reason you'd ever want one is to wage war on the... federal... government. That's actually why these idiots are an extra special level of hilariously incompetent. To wage any sort of meaningful fight against the feds you'd need things heavier duty than a few hunting rifles and AR-15s.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:41
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Murderion posted:I'm guessing they're also not that useful for crime, for most circumstances a pistol or even a knife will threaten/kill people just as good. The only reason you'd ever want one is to wage war on the... federal... government. Historically, illegally owned machine guns have only been used by gangs with relatively high resources for targeted attacks. The St. Valentine's Day Massacre is the most famous example. There's only been two murders with legally owned machine guns since 1934, one of which was committed by a police officer. Even when Miami was at its highest rate of homicide, less than 1% of murders involved machine guns. It's just way too much gun even if you've got the resources for it. A robbery can be done with a throw-away .22 pistol or a sawed-off shotgun you bought for $50 that you don't even plan on firing, or even an airsoft gun that just looks realistic. A murder can be done with a pistol in the head if you don't want a knife.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:47
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's actually why these idiots are an extra special level of hilariously incompetent. To wage any sort of meaningful fight against the feds you'd need things heavier duty than a few hunting rifles and AR-15s. But Jesus is on their side!
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Feb 20, 2016 00:10
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crime fighting hog posted:But Jesus is on their side! He is. Upto the point the tazer or hollow point strikes them in the forehead.
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Feb 20, 2016 00:31
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So I zoned out of this a couple of weeks ago. Am I right in believing that the FBI dropped their full wrath down on everyone including Cliven and they're all going to jail for a long time? It sounds like maybe that wannabe-Palin politician lady might be in some trouble to? And Pete's hosed, right? So now we're just fantasizing about guns?
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Feb 20, 2016 01:53
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idkfa
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Feb 20, 2016 01:58
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STAC Goat posted:So I zoned out of this a couple of weeks ago. Am I right in believing that the FBI dropped their full wrath down on everyone including Cliven and they're all going to jail for a long time? It sounds like maybe that wannabe-Palin politician lady might be in some trouble to? And Pete's hosed, right? So now we're just fantasizing about guns? I don't think Michelle Fiore is gonna be in direct trouble since she actually assisted in diffusing the situation even if she was claiming to try to so that opposite. The FBI publicly thanked her though which we all pretty much hope is a purposeful kiss of death for her politically considering her idiot sovcit constituents I mean the IRS has been after her for years for unpaid taxes but I haven't heard anything about that coming to a head considering it started like 13 years ago
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Feb 20, 2016 02:04
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Sandy Anderson, one of 4 refuge holdouts, wasn't aware of federal orders to leave, lawyer says
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Feb 20, 2016 02:21
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stubblyhead posted:Sandy Anderson, one of 4 refuge holdouts, wasn't aware of federal orders to leave, lawyer says Given the hours of voice recordings we all have, her lawyer doesn't have a lot to work with. Kind of feel sorry for him.
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Feb 20, 2016 02:30
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stubblyhead posted:Sandy Anderson, one of 4 refuge holdouts, wasn't aware of federal orders to leave, lawyer says quote:On the night that Ammon Bundy and other leaders were arrested during a police stop on U.S. 395 north of Burns, the Andersons remained at the Malheur reserve and were asked by others still there to go to an outlying area where they had no cellphone or walkie talkie connections, Baker told the court.  If that's true, then it really was just a bunch of rejects left at the refuge. Fry, as we know, was kicked out of a car because he wouldn't stop streaming (WE ARE HIDING FROM THE FBI IN BUMFUCK, OREGON. WE ARE CURRENTLY AT THE CORNER OF 5th & WILSON, THAT'S WIL-SON. WE'RE ALL SUPER TIRED RIGHT NOW, RANDY'S GOING TO THE GAS STATION FOR SUPPLIES. HE WILL BE ALONE AND ISOLATED. SURE WOULD BE BAD IF THE FEDS SWOOPED IN RIGHT NOW). Only mystery left is Jeff Rejectedstarwarsname. Who knows what the gently caress he was up to.
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Feb 20, 2016 02:52
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Wait so according to the article Sandy is being released form jail?
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Feb 20, 2016 02:54
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I'm pretty sure if I played hooky from work for six weeks in order to try to overthrow the government my company wouldn't exactly be welcoming me back with open arms.
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Feb 20, 2016 02:59
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Telsa Cola posted:Wait so according to the article Sandy is being released form jail? Wait, wait. And get her old job back? 'kin' 'ell.
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Feb 20, 2016 03:01
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Telsa Cola posted:Wait so according to the article Sandy is being released form jail? Yeah because she has(had) a full time job and no criminal history. I guess her husband doesn't have those things so he gets to stay locked up.
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Feb 20, 2016 03:30
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Terrific. I was talking with a very nice older man today. We share a love of british TV, we like in depth American history, and both love John Adams. Then, he tells me to read a couple of books by this judge in Alaska, Anna von Reitz, and that she has written a lot about that judge that was just murdered and that man that was murdered in Oregon. Don't go look at the web page of Anna "look at me, I'm a judge, I'm a REAL judge" von Reitz. Now I have to talk to his daughter and let her know he needs his internet access restricted.
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Feb 20, 2016 03:35
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Anosmoman posted:Yeah because she has(had) a full time job and no criminal history. I guess her husband doesn't have those things so he gets to stay locked up. Uh, wouldn't this count as criminal history? Like a pretty serious example of it?
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Feb 20, 2016 03:50
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Aesop Poprock posted:Uh, wouldn't this count as criminal history? Like a pretty serious example of it? It will the next time she's arrested and the judge is considering bail. "History."
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Feb 20, 2016 03:51
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torgeaux posted:It will the next time she's arrested and the judge is considering bail. "History." If you take over a government site by armed force it seems questionable to allow that person to go free, especially when they have no respect or recognition of the law. Isn't that a serious enough charge to detain her?
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Feb 20, 2016 03:53
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Aesop Poprock posted:If you take over a government site by armed force it seems questionable to allow that person to go free, especially when they have no respect or recognition of the law. Isn't that a serious enough charge to detain her? The bottom line is that she is innocent until proven guilty and the judge apparently doesn't see her as enough of a risk of not showing up for her court date or committing other crimes.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:02
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Aesop Poprock posted:If you take over a government site by armed force it seems questionable to allow that person to go free, especially when they have no respect or recognition of the law. Isn't that a serious enough charge to detain her? One, as mentioned, the presumption of innocence. Two, the questions are, does this individual represent a threat to others safety/threat to commit other serious crimes, or a flight risk. This particular person probably is neither a flight risk nor going to take part in more criminal activity, given her clean past.
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Feb 20, 2016 04:31
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Aesop Poprock posted:If you take over a government site by armed force it seems questionable to allow that person to go free, especially when they have no respect or recognition of the law. Isn't that a serious enough charge to detain her? Holding people in jail unnecessarily is still bad when it's happening to white conservatives. She hasn't been convicted of anything yet, and she's likely not at risk of flight or further criminal activity. There's no reason she shouldn't be granted bail until her well nigh inevitable conviction comes through.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:44
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Goodpancakes posted:I was a cook in the national guard for 10 years and our mobile kitchen was pulled by a big rear end truck with a 50cal m2 mount out the cab top. So that landed us cooks the job of shooting the 50 Cal during our two week camps. They would just pour 10w 40 car oil in the thing and start shooting. When the range day was over they would stick the various crews who shot on gun cleaning duty. Combine that with not a whole lot to do and they made sure these things were spotless. 4 guys and a couple hours. We said gently caress that and made our way into the kitchen. They were basically unused at this point during our two weeks. But they had enough to setup and turn on the dish washer. We sent the 50 Cal through a couple times and dropped it off. The first Sargent was relishing the thought of white gloving this thing since it took all of 20 minutes. You could see his the delight in his eyes as he pulled out a bunch qtips. This quickly changed when he could find nothing on the gun. He was very confused at how we got it that clean that quickly, and was even more so by why it was so warm. I...... love you.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:47
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Goodpancakes posted:I was a cook in the national guard for 10 years and our mobile kitchen was pulled by a big rear end truck with a 50cal m2 mount out the cab top. So that landed us cooks the job of shooting the 50 Cal during our two week camps. They would just pour 10w 40 car oil in the thing and start shooting. When the range day was over they would stick the various crews who shot on gun cleaning duty. Combine that with not a whole lot to do and they made sure these things were spotless. 4 guys and a couple hours. We said gently caress that and made our way into the kitchen. They were basically unused at this point during our two weeks. But they had enough to setup and turn on the dish washer. We sent the 50 Cal through a couple times and dropped it off. The first Sargent was relishing the thought of white gloving this thing since it took all of 20 minutes. You could see his the delight in his eyes as he pulled out a bunch qtips. This quickly changed when he could find nothing on the gun. He was very confused at how we got it that clean that quickly, and was even more so by why it was so warm. So is it Ma Deucewasher? Or Ma Dish?
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Feb 20, 2016 05:57
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