|
Rocko Bonaparte posted:Well sure, but did any schoolchildren even use them? I'm just so perplexed. I think I only ever saw a fountain pen in use once in my life. I think one kid got one was a gift in elementary school, tried use it, and it completely exploded on them. Where I grew up, calligraphic pens were still part of the standard school supplies, and past a certain age in school teachers no longer accepted assignments written in pencil. You had to use a pen - of any sort, granted - but a pen nevertheless. It was really startling for me coming to the US for college and seeing people submit whole assignments written in 2B pencil. Kessel fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Feb 20, 2016 |
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 06:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 11:02 |
|
|
I'll be 34 this year and I grew up in the midwestern US; we learned to write in cursive but we never learned any real calligraphy or did any of it with dip or fountain pens. It was all some variety of rollerball once you moved from pencils in elementary school. Culturally it wasn't and isn't a thing in most of this country. Some European countries and in particular India still have a very strong tradition around fountain pens and handwriting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 07:01
|
|
|
Rocko Bonaparte posted:Well sure, but did any schoolchildren even use them? I'm just so perplexed. I think I only ever saw a fountain pen in use once in my life. I think one kid got one was a gift in elementary school, tried use it, and it completely exploded on them. I wrote with pencils until the third grade, and then started using a fountain pen in fourth. All my schoolwork was expected to be done in pen, except for math problems for which we were allowed to use pencils.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 07:02
|
|
|
My schools growing up were early adopters of zero tolerance. From middle school on no one could bring fountain pens because they were considered weapons. On top of that, some classes demanded pencil over pen anyway. I even had a couple classes where the teacher required papers to be handwritten and not typed until it came to light that my handwriting was irreparably illegible dogshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 15:46
|
|
|
Is all (recent years') black Parker Quink permanent? I need permanent ink, and I have Noodler's Bulletproof but I'd prefer not to use it. Some cursory browsing on Amazon suggests that all black Quink is permanent, all blue Quink is washable, and all blue-black Quink is permanent, but I need to be sure.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
My school was super pro-fountain pens. By age 7 you weren't allowed to use anything other than a pencil until your handwriting was good enough, at which point you could use a ballpoint pen. Then, once your handwriting had improved further, you were expected to move up to a fountain pen. By age 10 virtually everyone was writing with a fountain pen because kids still using ballpoint or pencil got bullied for having bad handwriting. Perks of the British public school system.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
guppy posted:Is all (recent years') black Parker Quink permanent? I need permanent ink, and I have Noodler's Bulletproof but I'd prefer not to use it. Some cursory browsing on Amazon suggests that all black Quink is permanent, all blue Quink is washable, and all blue-black Quink is permanent, but I need to be sure. Any reason you don't want to use Noodler's?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
In further confirmation that Omas is dead, Classic Fountain Pens (nibs.com) is no longer accepting Omas pens for repair under warranty. They literally just became the only authorised service centre outside of Italy a month or so ago, before the news broke. Some of the folks on FPN did some digging, too, and discovered that Visconti makes something really poo poo like 30,000 euros profit a year. RIP European makers who didn't keep up with the times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
Sounds like an excuse to buy some neat expensive pens. You know, before they become rare or something. Says the goon with a dozen 1940's-era Sheaffers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
Honestly - and my bias for Japanese manufacturers may be showing here - I think most of the niche, pedigreed fountain pen makers from Europe have been out of the game for a while now. The digging by the folks on FPN into their financials only confirms it - they're all running on fumes or losing money. Of course, I'd be pilloried for saying this in many of the fountain pen communities, which are often filled with types nostalgic for the old world, however overpriced it may be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
People don't want to buy $500 pens with rampant QC defects and poor customer service, even though they're kinda pretty? I'll be darned.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Remora posted:People don't want to buy $500 pens with rampant QC defects and poor customer service, even though they're kinda pretty? I'll be darned. Yeah, the market's really shifted to the $30-50 pen with rampant QC defects (but great customer service).
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
I'd say, for a lot of them at least, it's less about nostalgia than it is status. You see a lot of that "old world upper class" poo poo in the community that basically amounts to 40 year old men larping a downton abbey character. Also, a lot of the guys who are really into the European companies are probably Asian/Middle-eastern. When I attend the D.C. pen show every year, there are gaggles of Chinese and Arab men walking around with messenger bags full of $100 bills buying up Viscontis and the like. Those brands have a social value associated with them that other (better) makers will never be able to achieve. Edit: go buy some nice restored North American pens you goobers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:15
|
|
|
Mr. Despair posted:Yeah, the market's really shifted to the $30-50 pen with rampant QC defects (but great customer service). I mind a $0-15 replacement part for a $15-60 pen a lot less than I mind needing to send a $500 pen to a nibmeister for $80+ to make the loving thing usable. YMMV, I suppose. Shran, what would you reccommend for a beginner vintage pen that doesn't have a sac in it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Remora posted:I mind a $0-15 replacement part for a $15-60 pen a lot less than I mind needing to send a $500 pen to a nibmeister for $80+ to make the loving thing usable. YMMV, I suppose. I was being serious, I'm a big fan of my TWSBI Eco! I just don't see the need to spend much more than that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
My Man Shran posted:I'd say, for a lot of them at least, it's less about nostalgia than it is status. You see a lot of that "old world upper class" poo poo in the community that basically amounts to 40 year old men larping a downton abbey character. There seems to be a serious market for expensive fountain pens in China especially. While I lived in Shanghai, a giant new super department store opened up. Because of Chinese numerological superstitions, where 6s and 8s are very good, it had 8 floors and a total floor space of 68,888 square meters. On the very first day, they had a single bejeweled fountain pen being sold for RMB 888,888 (about $135,000 USD). It was the first thing sold.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
I don't need to go to the sink to pour this ink into the inkwell, I can do it just fine!  I couldn't do it just fine 
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
Remora posted:Shran, what would you reccommend for a beginner vintage pen that doesn't have a sac in it? Though it technically has a sac in it, the absolute best first vintage pen is still the (aerometric) Parker 51. I'd recommend buying it pre-restored, since there's concern with plastic shrinkage and heating things just right etc. It's should be trivial to find a professionally restored user-grade unit for $100-$120. Most pens that fill with anything more advanced than a lever/sac will require careful (and often professional) restoration.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
grack posted:Any reason you don't want to use Noodler's? It's going into a nice ($100+ pen) for an important occasion and I am a little jumpy after the stuff people like Richard Binder said about Noodler's inks. Noodler's nerds, please do not jump in here to tell me how he (or I) is/am crazy and it's fine, I do not care, I would prefer not to use it if I don't have to. I have both the Noodler's and the Parker on hand and I just want to know if I can use the latter. Here is a link to the Binder stuff, because I assume inevitably there will be someone unfamiliar with Binder's comments who will want to know what I'm talking about.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
There's nothing wrong with avoiding Noodler's for any of the really good reasons (which include the generally higher maintenance, occasional nightmare ink, and schizophrenic politics of their maker). Don't get me wrong, Noodler's is fine 99% of the time so long as it's not in a thin-walled latex sac or anything that stains. I'm not super hot on any of the modern Quink products because they fade and look pretty washed-out to begin with. Any iron gall ink (yay KWZI) will be permanent, and the KWZI inks are available in a huge range of colors and are generally well behaved. Of course, iron gall ink is very corrosive and high maintenance. The Diamine registrar's inks are permanent and look better than Quink, same with the Platinum pigmented ink. Both will also be somewhat higher maintenance, but if you flush the pen every few months you will be golden. Pilot blue-black (the best blue-black) is pretty waterproof and likely has some permanence.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
Speaking of Noodler's, my Black has been really splotchy lately. It's only black where the strokes stop and end and nowhere in the middle. Is there a way to fix this?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
Shake it better? Or shake it period, if you haven't been and it's been sitting for a while.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
I was reading about flow issues with Noodler's ink, and that seems to confirm what I see. I have been sticking to finer nibs. I won't really know for sure until I start trying some of the Diamine samples I got.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 22:51
|
|
|
Zenostein posted:Shake it better? I didn't know you needed to shake it, so that's likely the problem. I guess i'll clean it out and refill it, after shaking.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
guppy posted:It's going into a nice ($100+ pen) for an important occasion and I am a little jumpy after the stuff people like Richard Binder said about Noodler's inks. Noodler's nerds, please do not jump in here to tell me how he (or I) is/am crazy and it's fine, I do not care, I would prefer not to use it if I don't have to. I have both the Noodler's and the Parker on hand and I just want to know if I can use the latter. The only archival quality fountain pen inks on the market without serious caveats attached (besides Noodler's) are Rorher and Klingner Documentis inks and they're pretty expensive. Otherwise, all the other waterproof/permanent inks on the market are way, way WAY more problematic than whatever difficulties you imagine Noodler's Bulletproof inks will cause. Both iron gall and pigment inks are very dry flowing and can be an absolute pain in the rear end to clean. Parker's current inks are awful and should be avoided unless you're desperate, and a lot of their "permanent" inks have some shellac in them which will absolutely destroy your pens.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
Rocko Bonaparte posted:I was reading about flow issues with Noodler's ink, and that seems to confirm what I see. I have been sticking to finer nibs. I won't really know for sure until I start trying some of the Diamine samples I got. I had red-black flow poorly in a fine prera, but then the herbin I put in also wasn't flowing right until I took out the nib and feed, so I'm not sure blaming the ink would be quite right. It's worked fine in everything else I've tried it in (western fines, though). mikeycp posted:I didn't know you needed to shake it, so that's likely the problem. I guess i'll clean it out and refill it, after shaking. After a while the ink sorta settles in the bottle. If it's empty enough, flipping the bottle over and holding it up to a light'll show a bunch of sediment at the bottom. So long as it isn't like, slime or mold, that's fine — just shake it (carefully) to mix it back up (and then be patient as you wait ages for all the little bubbles to go away). I mean, if it's just suddenly started happening to this pen/ink combo, that's a pretty good place to start troubleshooting, at the least. VVV Every ink. But especially weird/heavily pigmented stuff, like Herbin's Anniversary inks, or Diamine's shimmer inks. Those tend to settle faster, I think. Zenostein fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
Zenostein posted:After a while the ink sorta settles in the bottle. If it's empty enough, flipping the bottle over and holding it up to a light'll show a bunch of sediment at the bottom. So long as it isn't like, slime or mold, that's fine — just shake it (carefully) to mix it back up (and then be patient as you wait ages for all the little bubbles to go away). Is this just a Noodler's thing? Or should this be done with all inks?
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
grack posted:The only archival quality fountain pen inks on the market without serious caveats attached (besides Noodler's) are Rorher and Klingner Documentis inks and they're pretty expensive. Okay, thanks. Maybe I'll just use the Noodler's, although this is a one-time thing and a mildly expensive bottle of ink for it isn't a big deal. Specifically, I'm getting married. I'm Jewish and there's a ketubah to sign. It's a formality, but I want it to look nice down the road.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Remora posted:People don't want to buy $500 pens with rampant QC defects and poor customer service, even though they're kinda pretty? I'll be darned. Omas FPs were really nice though as someone brought in a few during our FP club once and their celluloids look 100% better in person. Unfortunately my grail FP Vintage Old Style Paragon will now never be achieved since the company will be gone by then 
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
Remora posted:People don't want to buy $500 pens with rampant QC defects and poor customer service, even though they're kinda pretty? I'll be darned. Everything I've tried from Omas has been fantastic but their stuff is really, really expensive so there's really no way to get people to grow in to the brand. Visconti, on the other hand, fits this perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
R&K Scabiosa is iron gall but its very well behaved for me. Easy to clean and flows well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
grack posted:Everything I've tried from Omas has been fantastic but their stuff is really, really expensive so there's really no way to get people to grow in to the brand. Yeah. I haven't tried any Visconti or Omas specifically (though now might be a good time to buy that 360, since it'll probably rise in value...), but in general it's appalling how often ~premium~ gold nibs ~hand crafted~ by a company with a ~long and proud history~ end up being shittier and less consistent than a €10 stamped steel Lamy Safari nib. It's almost like modern manufacturing techniques for a simple metal part are actually good, and production by hand is only superior when putting in enormous effort or for specialty parts not worth making an entire factory line for. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Feb 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 01:08
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
And if you want a gold nib there are a ton of options from Pilot under $100 and you're almost guaranteed to get something that'll write directly out of the package. The first new, gold-nibbed fountain pen I ever bought was a Pilot Seremo and the nib was spectacular. It still is, for that matter, and it cost me under $40 shipped from Japan. I gave it to a friend for her birthday and she loves it as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
blowfish posted:It's almost like modern manufacturing techniques for a simple metal part are actually good, and production by hand is only superior when putting in enormous effort or for specialty parts not worth making an entire factory line for. It varies? A good portion of premium FP costs are due to rare and/or uncommon materials, workmanship (custom Fps?), and specialized nibs. Visconti has their unique filling system and different materials like volcano or w/e. Omas is one of the few companies that offer stubs/italics and old-fashioned materials not commonly found in modern FPs. It's a bit like how people pay  for mechanical watches when nowadays quartz is OK for everything.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
Alternative permanent ink thought: I do own a glass J. Herbin dip pen. Don't think there's any reason I couldn't use Bulletproof Black with that. That might be kind of neat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 02:53
|
|
|
Alder posted:It varies? A good portion of premium FP costs are due to rare and/or uncommon materials, workmanship (custom Fps?), and specialized nibs. Visconti has their unique filling system and different materials like volcano or w/e. Omas is one of the few companies that offer stubs/italics and old-fashioned materials not commonly found in modern FPs. Visconti also has some of the very worst QC in the entire industry W/R/T their nibs, which is a crime given how they cost.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 04:14
|
|
|
Insanely happy with my iroshizuku ink order. Yama-budo is so pretty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 04:15
|
|
|
grack posted:And if you want a gold nib there are a ton of options from Pilot under $100 and you're almost guaranteed to get something that'll write directly out of the package. The first new, gold-nibbed fountain pen I ever bought was a Pilot Seremo and the nib was spectacular. It still is, for that matter, and it cost me under $40 shipped from Japan. I gave it to a friend for her birthday and she loves it as well. drat, I didn't realize you could get gold nibs for nearly 30 bucks new. http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Fountain-Seremo-Medium-FCM-500R-B-M/dp/B001AX9HFU/ shits nuts
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
Alder posted:Visconti has their unique filling system Which god drat sucks. Its capacity of 1.5ml on full-size, and 1ml (lol) on midi-size, is pathetic. Why even bother making a 1ml piston-filler? It's doubly-bad on the big-rear end pens with big-rear end nibs Visconti makes because they chew through the ink supply like no other. grack posted:Visconti also has some of the very worst QC in the entire industry W/R/T their nibs, which is a crime given how they cost. Also yes. You're actually safer with their high-end nibs made by Bock because they have better QC than the Visconti tubulars made in-house
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 09:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 11:02 |
|
|
Alder posted:It varies? A good portion of premium FP costs are due to rare and/or uncommon materials, workmanship (custom Fps?), and specialized nibs. Visconti has their unique filling system and different materials like volcano or w/e. quote:Omas is one of the few companies that offer stubs/italics and old-fashioned materials not commonly found in modern FPs.  Nibs in all standard sizes, springy standard sizes, a flex nib, up- and downturned nibs, a stub nib, a music nib. All factory made, all consistently good, all cheaper than the European luxury companies' equivalent even after import tax. If you want to be a semi-bespoke premium pen maker, i.e. quote:It's a bit like how people pay suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2016 14:18
|
|