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For as much as I follow it, I have to admit I know nothing about politics. From the get go, I was convinced it was gonna be Jeb and Hillary. Back in July, my friends were nervous about Trump and I stated unequivocally and with utmost confidence that he had zero chance at the nomination. Now it seems like a foregone conclusion. I'm actually beginning to think for the first time that he could win the presidency. It sucks for people like me to sit back and watch this Frankenstein monster the GOP and their conservative media lackeys have created but the funny thing is you can begin to see it make THEM uncomfortable as well. Rush, Sean and certainly the GOP establishment are noticeably freaked out and now there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. I'm stunned how horribly naive I've been, not because I couldn't see this happening, but simply at the alarming speed that it HAS happened. A Trump presidency would be nothing less than full on fascism, unfettered capitalism, a complete embrace of rude and obnoxious discourse and the final admission and acceptance of total celebrity worship. You can sort of tell (see Walsh tweets above) that it's even making the true believers more than a little nervous. It's like that Bob Roberts movie come to life with Trump.
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Feb 21, 2016 19:40
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We'll have to hope that the people who aren't trying to get Trump supporters' votes lay a few good hits in on him - he's thin skinned, and more timid than he pretends to be.
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Feb 21, 2016 19:54
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StandardVC10 posted:We'll have to hope that the people who aren't trying to get Trump supporters' votes lay a few good hits in on him - he's thin skinned, and more timid than he pretends to be. I also feel like there's a good chance he has ZERO idea how congress works, which could really hurt him. Bernie or Hillary are both quite capable of dismantling him in a debate, I think.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:03
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This cycle will be a very interesting footnote in American politics, I feel. Trump really has managed to wrap the worst developments of American culture the last 20 years into a presidential campaign and he's doing it cheaper and more effectively than literally every seasoned politician the Republicans have thrown into the race. On it's face, Trump is catering to the most spiteful and hate-filled sections of the populace while everyone looks on in quiet horror. In the event of Trump's Republican Primary victory, I highly doubt non-Trump supporters will stay home when it comes to the General with the Supreme Court on the line now. Very likely to see many 'I held my nose and voted for Trump'. On the other hand, fervent Trump supporters are basically cheering on Mussolini. After 7 years of Obama, these conservatives feel thoroughly beaten and by God this time they will have a winner!  Trump told me that everyone else is a loser, and that he is a winner! He's gonna build that wall and make Mexico pay for it! Trump is gonna put a freeze on Muslim immigration! Trump loves guns! Trump is a good Christian, he said so himself! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! Hell, on the being a good Christian thing he talked poo poo about the loving Pope of the Roman Catholic Church and within minutes had lackies running to his defense. Even if Trump doesn't win, Presidential politics has been taken down several pegs as far as what passes as civilized discourse. Next time candidates will just be on Twitter getting into animated GIF slapfights with each other, or maybe sneaking into the toilet and recording their opponents taking a poo poo and posting it to their campaign's youtube.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:34
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BiggerBoat posted:For as much as I follow it, I have to admit I know nothing about politics. From the get go, I was convinced it was gonna be Jeb and Hillary. Back in July, my friends were nervous about Trump and I stated unequivocally and with utmost confidence that he had zero chance at the nomination. Now it seems like a foregone conclusion. I'm actually beginning to think for the first time that he could win the presidency. Donald Trump, Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful military in human history. What's wrong with that? I think the what makes Trump so unique as a presidential candidate is that I don't think really cares about being President. Trump is a pure salesman. He has no political ideology to speak of. I certainly don't think he strongly believes in any of the political positions he's taken. "What can I do to get you into this car?" I think he just looks as becoming President as the greatest act of salesmanship you can achieve. I don't think he really has any thought beyond that. Just be happy that if he does win the US government is set up in a way to prevent one person or a small group of people, including the President, from being able to do too much damage for too long. Let's just hope that Trump doesn't declare war on Mexico or China before that happens.
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Feb 21, 2016 20:56
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Dabir posted:You might be thinking of Starship Troopers, the book was supposed to be taken at face value but the film director made it a satire. That was a little different. Starship Troopers was the one where the writers and director were halfway through the script of an unrelated movie about fighting bugs in space and the studio lawyers saw a superficially similar famous novel and bought the license to head off a lawsuit. The writers/director never read the book or wanted to, so they threw a little tantrum that ended up being a pretty effective satire, if not of the book in particular.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:06
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Last summer, we all thought Trump's candidacy was a complete joke because there was precedent to it in 2012. He said he was going to run, a few people took him seriously while everyone else laughed Trump out of the room, and then he went back to doing his show. Now Trump has no show or anything else going on, so it's like he's just running for president because he's bored. And people love Trump because he's not a politician. His political experience is donating large sums of money to political campaigns and nothing else. Because Trump has no actual political experience, he hasn't been institutionalized to restrain himself from being so openly racist. If Trump had been laughed out of the room again last summer, then we'd be looking at a likely Hillary vs. Cruz race. Meanwhile, I'm wishing it was 2006 again and the Democrats were repeating that strategy of making every state matter in the midterm election. Jesus, even Wyoming almost put in a Democratic representative by one-tenth of a percent. It was that close in that blood red of a state. Bring that poo poo back and then a blowhard like Trump isn't so scary.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:37
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Dapper_Swindler posted:but doesnt walsh believe half that poo poo anyway. or is he and the rest of evanglicals scared because he knows trump wont keep them around and probaly views them as the thing they are, parasites. Walsh probably agrees with Trump on a shitload of things but his Christian identity is the most important factor to him by a large margin and he has decided that Trump doesn't meet his Christian purity test.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:41
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confused posted:I think the what makes Trump so unique as a presidential candidate is that I don't think really cares about being President. Trump is a pure salesman. He has no political ideology to speak of. I certainly don't think he strongly believes in any of the political positions he's taken. "What can I do to get you into this car?" I think he just looks as becoming President as the greatest act of salesmanship you can achieve. I don't think he really has any thought beyond that. This doesn't make me feel any better about it.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:42
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kik2dagroin posted:Hell, on the being a good Christian thing he talked poo poo about the loving Pope of the Roman Catholic Church and within minutes had lackies running to his defense.
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Feb 21, 2016 22:12
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confused posted:I think the what makes Trump so unique as a presidential candidate is that I don't think really cares about being President. Trump is a pure salesman. He has no political ideology to speak of. I certainly don't think he strongly believes in any of the political positions he's taken. "What can I do to get you into this car?" I think he just looks as becoming President as the greatest act of salesmanship you can achieve. I don't think he really has any thought beyond that. Obviously it's pretty hard to tell what Trump is actually thinking, but people have a tendency to believe their own lies after the repeat them often enough.
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Feb 21, 2016 23:49
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confused posted:I think the what makes Trump so unique as a presidential candidate is that I don't think really cares about being President. Trump is a pure salesman. He has no political ideology to speak of. I certainly don't think he strongly believes in any of the political positions he's taken. "What can I do to get you into this car?" I think he just looks as becoming President as the greatest act of salesmanship you can achieve. I don't think he really has any thought beyond that. I think he cares in the sense that he wants to win. He sees it as a personal challenge. As for what happens after, if he wins? That all depends on who maneuvers close to him. And we have no loving idea who that is or who that'll be. It could be someone moderate, it could be a lunatic. The scary problem with Trump is that even though we know he's a good salesman and manipulator and we get his schtick, we don't know who he would align himself with (in serious advisory-level roles) if he were to win, and those people would basically be running the country.
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Feb 22, 2016 00:28
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beatlegs posted:I think he cares in the sense that he wants to win. He sees it as a personal challenge. As for what happens after, if he wins? That all depends on who maneuvers close to him. And we have no loving idea who that is or who that'll be. It could be someone moderate, it could be a lunatic. The scary problem with Trump is that even though we know he's a good salesman and manipulator and we get his schtick, we don't know who he would align himself with (in serious advisory-level roles) if he were to win, and those people would basically be running the country. I don't know about you, but I have full confidence in Katrina Pearson
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Feb 22, 2016 00:31
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kik2dagroin posted:This cycle will be a very interesting footnote in American politics, I feel. Trump really has managed to wrap the worst developments of American culture the last 20 years into a presidential campaign and he's doing it cheaper and more effectively than literally every seasoned politician the Republicans have thrown into the race. On it's face, Trump is catering to the most spiteful and hate-filled sections of the populace while everyone looks on in quiet horror. In the event of Trump's Republican Primary victory, I highly doubt non-Trump supporters will stay home when it comes to the General with the Supreme Court on the line now. Very likely to see many 'I held my nose and voted for Trump'. On the other hand, fervent Trump supporters are basically cheering on Mussolini. After 7 years of Obama, these conservatives feel thoroughly beaten and by God this time they will have a winner! Catholics are considered very dubious Christians by evangelicals because of their 'idolatry'. Trump and his allies can go to town on the pope, oh also a lot of 'illegals' are Catholic. Evangelicals might stand with Cruz, but Trump is going to court them, even if he comes off as not caring.
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Feb 22, 2016 01:34
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I still can't over the fact that Trump actually went so far as to forgive the Pope for the transgression of speaking out against him. And after Trump completely misrepresented the reason why the Vatican has walls to boot. There's a difference between having walls because your city was at one point in the ancient past the political equivalent of King's Landing from A Game of Thrones and erecting a wall to keep out a bunch of fictional immigrants due to xenophobia. The latter of which that do actually exist typically crossing the water most of the time instead of the death trap that is parts of our border. Just, holy poo poo. The balls on that man are incredible. And not in a good "Holy poo poo, he's incredible. " sort of way. More like a "Jesus christ I wish this Pope would not practice what he preaches for once and just make a formal declaration of excommunication towards that narcissistic shitbag." sort of way. Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 01:42
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Archonex posted:I still can't over the fact that Trump actually went so far as to forgive the Pope for the transgression of speaking out against him. And after Trump completely misrepresented the reason why the Vatican has walls to boot. Popes can't excommunicate Protestants. I mean, they can say it, but having the Pope say "you're no longer a Catholic" doesn't have much sting when you never claimed to be one in the first place.
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Feb 22, 2016 01:47
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" sort of way. More like a "Jesus christ I wish this Pope would not practice what he preaches for once and just make a formal declaration of excommunication towards that narcissistic shitbag." sort of way.
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Jurgan posted:Popes can't excommunicate Protestants. I mean, they can say it, but having the Pope say "you're no longer a Catholic" doesn't have much sting when you never claimed to be one in the first place. Well, yeah. I know that. But even just a little slap to the face in light of that nonsense instead of turning the other cheek (Which, given the silence from the Vatican they appear to be doing. Which is the right response, religiously speaking.) would do a lot to shut that megalomaniacal jackass up. Or set him off even more so that he might actually alienate a few of his more moderate followers. I mean, holy hell. I'm not even catholic and the level of bullshit going on there was infuriating to me. To forgive the Pope for speaking out against your terrible views after you make up some bullshit about why the Vatican has walls is nuts. It's flat out loving delusional. Especially to try that poo poo with this particular Pope, who has by all accounts been desperately trying to update some of the nastier parts of the catholic church to the 21st century. There's your standard narcissistic disorder and then there's reaching Kanye West levels of being delusional about your own importance. Archonex fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 01:53
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He'll fill his cabinet with supermodels and have a secretary of sexiness. TRUMP 2016
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Feb 22, 2016 01:56
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Archonex posted:I still can't over the fact that Trump actually went so far as to forgive the Pope for the transgression of speaking out against him. And after Trump completely misrepresented the reason why the Vatican has walls to boot. If Trump had balls he'd start going after Rush and some of these talk radio guys that rip on him every now and then. He always picks safe targets.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:01
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Archonex posted:Well, yeah. I know that. But even just a little slap to the face in light of that nonsense instead of turning the other cheek (Which, given the silence from the Vatican they appear to be doing. Which is the right response, religiously speaking.) would do a lot to shut that megalomaniacal jackass up. Or set him off even more so that he might actually alienate a few of his more moderate followers. Yeah Trump is already alienating moderates something fierce.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:02
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The religious right and the authoritarian right was an alliance of convenience more than anything. They're both about control, traditionalism, and "gently caress everybody that isn't us." Christianity is on the decline in America which is part of why the religious right is going into meltdown mode. Their influence is waning and they know it. As the right gets further to the right it's also becoming more apparent that the religious right doesn't give a poo poo what Jesus actually taught and was using it as a way to keep political control. The profound ugliness of right wing thought is coming screaming out while the end results of their policies have not been what was promised on the tin. They're desperately trying to cling to their power but American voters aren't happy with the way they run things. Meanwhile their political fuckery, gerrymandering, and voter suppression are becoming more blatant and more public. Good post.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah Trump is already alienating moderates something fierce. I think you'd be surprised how many people there are out there that like what he's doing. There's a lot of younger people that cheer him on because he's "funny and takes the piss out of authority figures" (The paraphrased words of a few people I went to college with.) that are older and perceived as having screwed them over in life. See, people crowing about the GOP self destructing in this thread as an example of what I mean. Only they take an entirely different meaning from it than people in here do. Meanwhile on the older end of things he's got the racist, xenophobe, parts of the war hawk, and white supremacist/part time skinhead vote locked down tight. That doesn't look to be changing any time soon either, barring him getting screwed out of the nom by something the GOP does. And that's not counting the people on the right or independent side of things who outright won't vote for Bernie or Hillary because they used the word socialist to describe themselves in the past or are just perceived to have a generally vaguely "shady" past due to almost two decades of bullshit scandals being concocted and thrown at them in the hopes they stick, respectively. I've met more than a few of those people lately. Even if they're disgusted by Trump's attitude and politics, i've been told repeatedly that they're going to vote for him if he gets the nomination just because they don't want one of "those" sort of people to get into the office. If he can keep this whole mythic, anti-authority, larger than life celebrity thing going to the general without it getting eclipsed by what a lovely human being he is then he might actually pull off a win. Which is a pretty disturbing commentary on our politics all by itself. Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 02:10
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World Famous W posted:I don't get why anyone is surprised that a bunch of right-wing evangelical protestants don't give a poo poo what the pope has to say or that someone insulted him. The right wing claimed the Pope as their own for a while due to the general anti-abortion stance of the Catholic church, the anti-gay agenda of the church, and the mistaken interpretation that John Paul II's work toward spreading democracy and fighting autocracy meant that he was a huge fan of Reagan capitalism. Really you can trace the modern GOP fixation on the Pope directly to Reagan. Getting the Catholic vote to turn out for the GOP and respecting the Pope was kind of his thing, and that era is long gone. The surprising thing is how quickly the GOP rhetoric on the Pope shifted. Less than a decade ago Fox News was whipping the base into a froth to try to get Bill Maher fired from Real Time for statements he made about Pope Benedict. Since the shift toward courting evangelical Christians to the exclusion of all other religious voting blocs and the beginning of Pope Francis' time as Pope it's just been open season with rhetoric that would definitely have been completely considered out of bounds for GOP candidates just a few years ago.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:17
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Pope Francis thinks we should help the poor and respect the environment, so that's why the hard right doesn't like him.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:32
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nachos posted:If Trump had balls he'd start going after Rush and some of these talk radio guys that rip on him every now and then. He always picks safe targets. Rush is too scared to rip on him anymore. Trump is legit more influential among American conservatives than Rush is nowadays, which is loving hilarious.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:44
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The problem with Trump in a debate is that it's really hard to debate crazy. They're going to spit out crazy poo poo from every orifice and the sensible person is just left trying to have a reply to it. It will be not unlike the episode of the Penn Gillett radio show with Phil Plat and Joe Rogan. At first you think Plat doesn't know what he's talking about because he can't come back from Rogan's moon landing conspiracy facts, but you eventually realize he can't come back becuase its just crazy made up bullshit and someone with a grounding in reason and science would have no actual way to defend themselves.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:52
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As much as I despise Trump it's remarkable that we live in a world where it's entirely possible that the Pope read a tweet and said the Italian translation of "I'm not mad, I actually think it's funny that he's mad".
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Feb 22, 2016 03:11
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twistedmentat posted:The problem with Trump in a debate is that it's really hard to debate crazy. They're going to spit out crazy poo poo from every orifice and the sensible person is just left trying to have a reply to it. It will be not unlike the episode of the Penn Gillett radio show with Phil Plat and Joe Rogan. At first you think Plat doesn't know what he's talking about because he can't come back from Rogan's moon landing conspiracy facts, but you eventually realize he can't come back becuase its just crazy made up bullshit and someone with a grounding in reason and science would have no actual way to defend themselves. I thought Rogan backed off his stupid moon poo poo, what the hell happened? Unless that's an older thing
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Feb 22, 2016 03:17
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Any update on the crazy Uber shooter? Is he a trangendered muslim yet?
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Feb 22, 2016 03:45
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BROCK LESBIAN posted:Any update on the crazy Uber shooter? Is he a trangendered muslim yet? Nope, he's still the whitest dude ever. No motive or anything yet, he'll be arraigned tomorrow. So far I haven't seen any of the right-wing crackpot sites talking about it. They arrested the guy less than 2 miles from my house.
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Feb 22, 2016 03:53
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The fact that a narcissistic gasbag like Trump who's "strategies" for the future are barking out blatant bigotry and bullying everyone around him is a very terrifying indication of just how badly our political system is currently failing.Archonex posted:I think you'd be surprised how many people there are out there that like what he's doing. There's a lot of younger people that cheer him on because he's "funny and takes the piss out of authority figures" (The paraphrased words of a few people I went to college with.) that are older and perceived as having screwed them over in life. See, people crowing about the GOP self destructing in this thread as an example of what I mean. Only they take an entirely different meaning from it than people in here do. Case in point. The people most likely to be galvanized to vote these days are mostly those not in any way qualified to make such a decision. Just yesterday NBC interviewed a Trump supporter whose logic was "Trump's already powerful, so he's less likely to be corrupted by it". This is the kind of idiocy that is driving his success among conservative voters, ignoring the racist angle. All Trump has to do is spew his nonsense even louder and his supporters will fawn all over him. Facts, logic, or basic morality don't even enter into it. This isn't really anything new, but now the many policy abuses intended to keep the ignorant, easily manipulated public in less populated areas disproportionately powerful have resulted in a monster that not even the GOP cannot control anymore. I really do hope that this is, as Toxic Slurpee said, the last, desperate gasp of a party that is slowly falling into irrelevance because if they gain any more power using the measures they have now, the consequences could haunt us for decades. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 03:53
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Popular Thug Drink posted:one of the iron rules i've learned is that anyone who fears idiocracy is a portent of things to come and not just a comedy sci fi satire is deffo someone the film mocked This is true by definition because the movie's premise is a eugenics theory that has been discredited in scientific thought for almost 100 years. It's the kind of thinking that's attractive to inbred 19th-century gentlemen who are endlessly entertained by watching bullets blow pigeons' brains out to explain to themselves why inheriting daddy's name and lands make them a superior human being. It should be no surprise what kind of person takes it seriously in 21st century America.
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Feb 22, 2016 03:59
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Geostomp posted:I really do hope that this is, as Toxic Slurpee said, the last, desperate gasp of a party that is slowly falling into irrelevance because if they gain any more power using the measures they have now, the consequences could haunt us for decades. "Last, desperate gasp" is a really weird way to characterize a party that has gained nearly a thousand seats in state and national legislatures since Obama got elected. "Republicans are a dying rump party that everyone hates" is a really weird way for Democrats to look at a party that is beating the crap out of them on almost every level. I understand that some of that is turnout but I don't see how "their smaller number of voters just care more than we do" is an effective defense for the party's inability to win elections other than Presidental ones.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:02
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Arguably Idiocracy could be seen as a commentary on automation and deskilling - but like all art it gets interpreted in multiple ways for political purposes.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:03
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McDowell posted:Arguably Idiocracy could be seen as a commentary on automation and deskilling - but like all art it gets interpreted in multiple ways for political purposes. Except it opens with a comparison of a middle class family delaying children to be successful in their careers until it's too late and they're childless, vs a trailer park couple having a dozen kids because they don't know what birth control is, and then says "this goes on for a hundred years" or something. The movie would be more interesting if it had been written your way, but the automation was portrayed as a necessary development of most people becoming too stupid to do their jobs, not the cause of it.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:09
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It's also funny how easy it is to turn the intro into an extremely racist screed - just make the poor couple Hispanic and you have the dual fears of them outbreeding the pure whites and them being so stupid that they bring America to its knees.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:13
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VitalSigns posted:The movie would be more interesting if it had been written your way, but the automation was portrayed as a necessary development of most people becoming too stupid to do their jobs, not the cause of it. It could be seen as a feedback loop where the dwindling number of 'smart' people automate enough that no one feels inclined to learn? When I saw first saw it it struck me as something I would write in a very depressed/pessimistic mood. It is supposed to be cultural/social pessimistic screed but has been twisted up with a racial /genetic dimension. I liked the Karl Urban Dredd movie. That's the kind of Supreme Court the 21st century needs.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:18
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computer parts posted:It's also funny how easy it is to turn the intro into an extremely racist screed - just make the poor couple Hispanic and you have the dual fears of them outbreeding the pure whites and them being so stupid that they bring America to its knees. Yeah that would be offensive if the context of that scene was completely changed.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:21
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computer parts posted:It's also funny how easy it is to turn the intro into an extremely racist screed - just make the poor couple Hispanic and you have the dual fears of them outbreeding the pure whites and them being so stupid that they bring America to its knees. The reason why Malthusian "They're breeding too fast!" is a lovely opinion that manages to stay popular across the political spectrum is how easily it reskins to your personal bigotries. If you're on the right it can be black people or immigrants. If you're on the left it can be religious folk or those subhuman rednecks. It's right up there with the symbolism of the zombie as how you're one of the few pure humans, intellectually and morally superior but still doomed by the faceless masses of *insert whoever you dislike already*
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Feb 22, 2016 04:22
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Yeah that would be offensive if the context of that scene was completely changed. It's not completely changed though, he even cheats on his wife with a non-white woman. 
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Feb 22, 2016 04:26
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