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alkanphel posted:Although there would still have been a lot of plot threads hanging, the defeat of Aizen and Ichigo losing all his powers to accomplish it would have really been the best place to end Bleach. I like to pretend the manga ended just then and there. So far, I have yet to regret this delusion. sharktamer posted:What does that even mean? I just said the beginning is boring as poo poo and Don Kanonji isn't even funny. Kubo's sense of comedy and timing improves much later and Pesche is the best and funniest and you're wrong please realise that. Pesche and gang are funny and all (and are probably the only shining light in their arc), but they don't have the Don's swag. SyntheticPolygon posted:Early Bleach is good and Grand Fisher is still the best villain in the series. He doesn't have much competition but the point stands. The only part that sucks about Grand Fisher is this super mysterious cliffhanger that took so long go come back to the main plot that he was now like 2 orders of magnitude weaker than just about anyone because Kubo skipped the a few Arrancar tiers and went straight to "Everyone used to be at least a Gillian". I think even that weakling from the nurse company (drat I'm totally starting to forget names) could've curbstomped him. Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 19:25
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao? Momo hasn't been stabbed in a while
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Feb 23, 2016 20:54
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FuturePastNow posted:Momo hasn't been stabbed in a while Everyone of importance to her has already stabbed her at least once. It's not easy to top that unless she does it herself and commits seppuku.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:01
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao? Hisagi.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:15
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Doresh posted:Everyone of importance to her has already stabbed her at least once. It's not easy to top that unless she does it herself and commits seppuku. Bankai
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Feb 24, 2016 00:31
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao?
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Feb 24, 2016 00:48
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Renji beat a quincy and he didn't get taken out of the fight afterwards or have to be saved by someone else. He's having a better showing than most this arc.
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Feb 24, 2016 01:14
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Hash browns is still sad because he had to kill his childhood friend, bazzleberry
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Feb 24, 2016 02:05
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao? Shinji. I remember thinking he was really cool when he was first introduced, and he was also initially portrayed as being really strong, what with being the leader of all the Visored. But he's been continuously chumped ever since Aizen and was just casually owned by Thor in the current arc.
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Feb 24, 2016 04:17
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao? The readers
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Feb 24, 2016 06:30
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Ytlaya posted:Shinji. I remember thinking he was really cool when he was first introduced, and he was also initially portrayed as being really strong, what with being the leader of all the Visored. But he's been continuously chumped ever since Aizen and was just casually owned by Thor in the current arc. Shinji is literally the worst captain. At this point I'm pretty sure that he couldn't even stab Momo.
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Feb 24, 2016 08:04
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hiddenriverninja posted:Saddest character in the series nowadays? Orihime? Nanao? Soi Fon. Yoruichi kicking rear end in skimpy outfits and they didn't have any meaningful interaction since ... Soul Society?
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Feb 24, 2016 08:17
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Darth TNT posted:Shinji is literally the worst captain. At this point I'm pretty sure that he couldn't even stab Momo. Rose and Kensei are dead so he's doing better than them.
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Feb 24, 2016 09:31
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Rose and Kensei are dead so he's doing better than them. Counterpoint: They managed to do what only Yamamoto and a ton of fodder managed to do - actually die.
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Feb 24, 2016 09:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Rose and Kensei are dead so he's doing better than them. I thought they may have got reversed
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Feb 24, 2016 16:51
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hagie posted:I thought they may have got reversed only Hitsugaya and Rangiku's deaths got reversed by Mayuri.
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Feb 24, 2016 16:52
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Sprite141 posted:Bankai "With this Bankai, I can share my wounds with you! *stabs herself*" Sue posted:Soi Fon. Wait, they're somehow related? Next you're telling me that Byakuya has a sister or something.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:39
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Counterpoint: They managed to do what only Yamamoto and a ton of fodder managed to do - actually die. I think you can pretty easily slip them into the "ton of fodder" category. Also didn't Mayuri bring them back as zombie goasts and use them to beat up the baby-man quincy?
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Feb 24, 2016 18:50
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Doresh posted:Wait, they're somehow related? Next you're telling me that Byakuya has a sister or something. Huh? Soi fon used to be yoruichi's lieutenant, or at least the very least her protégé. The fon family had always served the shionen family or something like that, and soi fon was still a kid (soul kid who knows how old) when yoruichi left. Byakuya has nothing to do with either of them, save him being trained (kinda) by yoruichi when he was super little. Maybe soi fon's age? And you're kidding about the sister thing right? You were so off about soi fon and yoruichi being related that I honestly can't tell.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:51
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Sprite141 posted:Huh? Soi fon used to be yoruichi's lieutenant, or at least the very least her protégé. The fon family had always served the shionen family or something like that, and soi fon was still a kid (soul kid who knows how old) when yoruichi left. Oh, don't worry. I'm just making fun of there being too many characters and too little "screentime" to share. Easy to forget stuff. Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 19:05
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Would Bleach had been (considered) better had it just been about fighting against the old regime's dogma and that Matsumoto and a few chosen captains were on his side, vs newer or up and coming captains? Instead of "teenager gains immeasurable strength against all odds and presses swords with the best" That almost seemed what the Soul Society arc was going to get to, then you have a mass redirection with the Aizen double cross and all.
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Feb 24, 2016 19:15
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Bleach would have probably been better if it ended with Aizen's defeat. While I liked the fullbringer arc, everything after Aizen's defeat just feels like padding. Like, some of the Quincy arc is great and I do enjoy keeping up. But, Bach just feels so out of left field. Also, the series has kind of become a bit of a zombie. It's popularity was waning near the end of the Fake Kaurakura Town arc, but it could have still ended as one of the Big Three. Now, I have to wonder if Jump won't just cancel the series one day since its popularity has, from my understanding, dropped depressingly low. But, yeah, to more directly answer your question: a more "establishment versus the next generation" story of internal conflict in Soul Society might have been more consistent with stuff earlier in the series.
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Feb 24, 2016 19:31
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Covok posted:Bleach would have probably been better if it ended with Aizen's defeat. While I liked the fullbringer arc, everything after Aizen's defeat just feels like padding. Like, some of the Quincy arc is great and I do enjoy keeping up. But, Bach just feels so out of left field. IIRC the series is regularly in the lower end of the popularity rankings from Jump issues, but still sells enough new volumes that the editors are letting Kubo finish it off just to be done with it. I highly doubt he'll manage to get another series published in Jump, though.
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Feb 24, 2016 19:46
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Honestly, I'm kinda ok with the manga still. I mean, it still has awful pacing and the even then a lot of stuff is now all being thrown out all at once. There is so much poo poo going on, and other characters that need screen time that it really feels rushed this arc. I don't feel as though the manga ending with aisen's defeat would have been best as there was so much left uncovered. And it certaintly would not be left after the invading of the soul society arc, as while it is a high point you need to have somewhere to go with it. The big bad aisen just took control of the situation and made everyone focus on him because he's such a big drat showboat and attention whore. A lot of what you guys are proposing what kubo should have done is kinda poo poo and wouldn't make the manga more enjoyable or better really. It's just that his pacing is so loving poo poo. A lot of complaints people have in this thread seem to stem from them reading each chapter and only looking at that chapter as a whole segment. That's perfectly fine, and it should be what people are doing. But this is kubo. Any other manga artist's chapters are worth like 5 of his content wise. Isn't the general consensus that the fullbring arc isn't that bad overall if you read it through all at once? I mean that isn't a good thing, that you have to go back and read poo poo through as his content goes by so fast that it takes years to do poo poo. A lot of you guys keep coming in and complaining about being confused about things which kubo already covered, or really just a bunch of poo poo that really has already been explained or does make sense if you actually remember the previous chapters. Of course because this pacing is poo poo, some foreshadowing at the beginning of the arc that completely explains something that happens later will end up forgotten as there's like 2 years and a hundred chapters in between. So man it's frustrating having people act all like kubo is poo poo for reasons, when they should drat well know what was going on if they read the book. But it's also completely understandable and pretty much justified as the pacing is so loving awful. It sucks that the anime of this was canceled, as this series makes a much better show than a book.
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Feb 24, 2016 19:58
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Sprite141 posted:
Maybe when it's finished, there's so little content chapter to chapter, that we were getting 15 minutes of, "What happened last week" and "Next week on Bleach!" and then an omake.
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Feb 24, 2016 20:25
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The biggest problem with Bleach going on too long is that Kubo just keeps shoveling interesting concepts and character designs into a series that has, artistically speaking, been on life support for years.
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Feb 24, 2016 20:30
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PicklePants posted:Maybe when it's finished, there's so little content chapter to chapter, that we were getting 15 minutes of, "What happened last week" and "Next week on Bleach!" and then an omake. Yeah, fair enough. You could say the same for the manga, however. I mean, as a weekly manga it's kinda slow as poo poo. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:The biggest problem with Bleach going on too long is that Kubo just keeps shoveling interesting concepts and character designs into a series that has, artistically speaking, been on life support for years. Well. I mean. How is making a struggling piece of work more interesting, or at least attempting to use it as a platform to develop design and concepts for future use a problem?
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Feb 24, 2016 20:36
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I too don't have much of a problem with the manga. Every time some one says "and nothing happened" I read it was "information useful for a later time," and go about my day. I was just curious what all the blow yards would have rather seen. I hated the fullbringer arc. Mostly due to the arc trying too hard, and trying to get way too much inorganic foreshadowing force fed in. Also the moment Book Aizen showed up I knew there was more lurking and the Interest in Ichigo getting powered up wasn't genuine anymore. It was already on shaky ground because him getting powered helps deposed the others? Pfff please, power begets desire for more power. My disappointment more recently is more of the thought into the powers, and too much "nuh-huh didn't get me."
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Feb 24, 2016 20:50
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Covok posted:Also, the series has kind of become a bit of a zombie. It's popularity was waning near the end of the Fake Kaurakura Town arc, but it could have still ended as one of the Big Three. Now, I have to wonder if Jump won't just cancel the series one day since its popularity has, from my understanding, dropped depressingly low. My personal conspiracy theory is that they let Bleach stay as long as the current arc will be the final one. Now Kubo pads it out as much as he can to see with how much he can get away with before it really does get cancelled. Sprite141 posted:Well. I mean. How is making a struggling piece of work more interesting, or at least attempting to use it as a platform to develop design and concepts for future use a problem? Don't you think some of those designs and ideas deserve their own manga, instead of getting stamped on a dead horse in hopes of making it look alive? I'd say the manga has been going on for way too long than whatever original vision Kubo had. He should really do a fresh start - if all those years of padding didn't ruin his talent completely. Doresh fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 21:04
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I used to love bleach for the reasons y'all are mentioning but at this point, it's lost all of its focus. Up until aizens death, there was a pretty clear goal, although it was shrouded in a lot of mysteries as to "why" aizen and gin are doing this and why ichigo is always involved. A lot of those questions were answered as we watched ichigo learn more about his powers and abilities, but they also left a lot of unanswered questions. For example, we still know literally nothing about ichigo and ulquiorra transcending an espadas release. Meanwhile, all the minor characters suffer from stagnation. They can't die and they can't grow either. At the same time, if they ever grow or show a chance of moving along their character arc, they are chumped by a completely new enemy within the next 30 chapters. The new enemies are always boring, flat characters as well and so it is disappointing to see characters with growth potentials doing the same thing forever while the protagonist eats up all of the upgrades and screen time. Kubo is afraid to let go of characters but also doesn't want to put effort into making them compelling. We have ganju and the full bringers showing up for this battle, for example, but for what purpose. The full bringers should all be dead and forgotten, they had their arc. The vaizard, who were former captains that also have a powerful hollow release, now just lose every battle. Squad zero was talked up and then immediately defeated by the ghost of nazi Germany. Ichigo's friends are actually useless, except for Orihime who has the most overpowered ability since star platinum and it makes me wonder why they have abilities at all if they never use them. Overall, it's frustrating. There are quite a lot of unresolved plot, unfulfilled characters, and a decreasing amount of time to tie it all together. Instead, Kubo keeps introducing new characters who have no motivation and really no point of being in the main story other than for the protagonist to triumph. This is the same problem that Naruto had at the end and I expect the final battle to be the same: a fight against a completely new enemy that only the protagonists can assist in while every other character is wiped out or prays from the sidelines. P.S. I wish Kira didn't die and I'm also extremely mad that he's back because it just means another good character who doesn't even get to die while they're still good.
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Feb 24, 2016 21:50
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Doresh posted:Don't you think some of those designs and ideas deserve their own manga, instead of getting stamped on a dead horse in hopes of making it look alive? Absolutely not. Like, seriously, that's the dumbest loving thing I've heard of. And just why is it that putting interesting designs and concepts into an unpopular comic to try and make it relevant/popular again a bad thing for an artist to do? I mean, just to start with, that's a pretty silly opinion. If the author doesn't consider something dead, why should he have to stop and do something else? If the author doesn't consider the story finished then that means the author will probably want to continue/finish the story. Do you think that he wants to kill off his story, and hates it so much that he doesn't even care that he never finishes telling it? Or do you actually think he's pulling every chapter out of his rear end every week, and that he's better off telling a brand new story instead of trying to make up poo poo for something that you consider dead or dying? I mean the author probably doesn't consider it in that dead of a state, just saying. Kubo is a content creator, like it or not. If this is something he wants in his world, and something he created for this story and for this setting, why should he have to place it in something else? I mean he hasn't even finished telling his story yet. Why would he even want to up and say no thanks this design is too good for this comic I poured my heart and soul into, lets put it in something new. Like, seriously? Why the gently caress should he just cut it out, start over and say ok now my ideas won't be bogged down by an unpopular comic. Did you want kubo to use the quincy villian of masculine de masque in a brand new setting he didn't design the character for, just so his cool outfit isn't soiled with kubo's previous manga? That he shouldn't care his story won't be finished, but instead he can make some brand new setting up, and somehow fit in these characters/powers/outfits he made for another comic in a new one? I'm sure it makes perfect sense for an author to have decided his outfits would look cooler if the manga they were debuted in wasn't as old and not popular as his current manga. We haven't seen anything pertaining to, or have any knowledge of his his planning for the series in whole. It's super easy to say he just made up all of these designs and everything on the spot, but since we don't know we cannot say. The truth of the matter is he may not be creating the concepts and designs on the spot, and that they could've been in his head for a long time. It's hard to say, this is kubo after all. Also considering that we're just now starting to wrap up plot threads involving ichigo and his parents from the beginning of the manga, I don't think it's gone past the point he's jad planned for the series.
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Feb 24, 2016 23:18
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I'd like him to just stop introducing new characters already. Your entire argument seems to hinge on "Tite Kubo can do what he wants, he's the author!". Which is fine. Except the main argument in this thread is that he sucks, so who gives a poo poo what he wants, because it sucks. When the best thing you can say about an author is "oh he foreshadowed this thing so long ago you just forgot about it", you're really not building a strong case. Shonen is shonen, so nobody is expecting literary genius, but that's not carte blanche to be awful. EDIT: Also Mask was like, two years ago? At least bring up Weird Flamingo Dude With Too Many Forms if you want to stay relevant. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 15:31
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This bankai better be a laser light show.
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Feb 25, 2016 15:50
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his bankai is literally just gonna be like a massive lady version of Mayuri's lol
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Feb 25, 2016 15:54
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In every single chapter, so little occurs that it seems as if nothing happens at all. God he should just release these in batches of ten.
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Feb 25, 2016 16:10
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welp he did the classic bleach mistake of explaining his power, now he's pretty much doomed
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Feb 25, 2016 16:16
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BlitzBlast posted:I'd like him to just stop introducing new characters already. Agreed. Quality, not quantity. Don't need to see more Quincies. Don't ever need to see the Fullbringers again. Didn't need to see them in the first place.
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Feb 25, 2016 16:23
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Amazing Chest Ahead!
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Feb 25, 2016 16:28
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every time a bleach chapter ends with the word "bankai" take a shot
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Feb 25, 2016 16:42
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