Questioner86 posted:There's a lot of data that we're still picking through for accuracy, you'll note that the last few updates have all included fixes/improvements to the analytic system to help us comb through and identify bad data. It's all really interesting stuff, however. Release the raw data.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:22
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I hope the lever action gets the tang sight put back on it, tang sights are neat.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:23
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Release the raw data. I'll ask the powers that be about that after we fix the stuff that is obviously errors in data collection. Unless some of the gunslinger players in here can confirm that 100% of the time you just say "gently caress it" and take neither perk.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:42
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OneDeadlyBum posted:Without knowing how they've filtered the data, it's meaningless to present. "We had a lot of complaints that the tanky high health frontline class was the last to die so we nerfed their HP and damage resistance values to ensure he dies much easier"
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Feb 25, 2016 22:44
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Questioner86 posted:There's a lot of data that we're still picking through for accuracy, you'll note that the last few updates have all included fixes/improvements to the analytic system to help us comb through and identify bad data. It's all really interesting stuff, however. Splash Damage also does this with Dirty Bomb where they collect data on all gameplay that happens and use it for more "insight" into balancing the game. The problem is just as bad in that game. For example, a rifle that everyone used because it was the only good rifle for that class of weapon gets nerfed because the numbers showed too many people were using it- instead of buffing the other inferior weapons to compensate. Then their "balance passes" consist of laughable non-changes such as "increased reload time from 0.3s to 0.4s." I'm sure all this raw data is helpful, but the devs seriously need to sit down and actually play. Having played KF2 it doesn't seem like Tripwire really understand why KF1 was such a satisfying experience. Am I remembering correctly or did the team do a livestream where they played on Normal and then acted like their pro tier Normal gameplay was applicable to the harder modes that people actually play the game on?
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Feb 25, 2016 22:51
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Your dirty bomb post reminds me on how Destiny wanted to bring up lesser used weapon types and nerf the more common ones a bit, the patch wound up buffing the lesser used weapons by like 0.02% or some poo poo and nerfed the more common ones by pretty much the same amount.
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Feb 25, 2016 22:55
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Questioner86 posted:I'll ask the powers that be about that after we fix the stuff that is obviously errors in data collection. Unless some of the gunslinger players in here can confirm that 100% of the time you just say "gently caress it" and take neither perk. I know getting this kind of criticism when you just wanna browse some forums and laugh at Goons sucks, so I appreciate you continuing to post in the thread and taking poo poo when you really don't have to. It's mostly frustrating because this is "past 72 hours" when neither my friends or I have touched the game in a few months. We want to play this very well-put-together game and await updates We just don't play because normal doesn't level you up and is too easy for us, but hard is a dice roll between a really fun boss, and a really lovely one. The rest require a crew of carefully-chosen, fully-maxed classes, and we don't have people that can fit with that. The problem we have is that the data we got from when Hans' "remove player" attack came out is not being presented. The team has not convinced me what is wrong with just releasing a hotfix where you cut his melee damage so it's not one-or-two hits on the second-lowest difficulty. Or maybe so that the medic heals more than 20 points. You can get some players back for better testing pools. The worst problem you have is that this one character is literally too easy for a shot time versus the loving slog that's decimating the playerbase. Again, also none of this addresses large groups of people on Hard and above. I can solo Suicidal and HoE, but for some reason we can't beat Hans on hard with a full group. Alteisen posted:Your dirty bomb post reminds me on how Destiny wanted to bring up lesser used weapon types and nerf the more common ones a bit, the patch wound up buffing the lesser used weapons by like 0.02% or some poo poo and nerfed the more common ones by pretty much the same amount. WoT and WT do this, too. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or what, but I've re-launched them intermittently since playing both of them in their earliest incarnations, and their "balances" of like "increased turn radius by .00135 meters/second" have done nothing, and the same vehicles dominate their tiers like they did years ago. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 23:06
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LuciferMorningstar posted:If it is the case that people have gotten frustrated with Hans and stopped playing, then the people who have played most recently are those who have the most experience, and thus might be more likely to win. Plausible, but it's just speculation. This is me. I stopped playing around the Pyro/Demo update because ending every match on a lovely note made firing up the game seem extremely unappealing. I hear Pat is a lot more fun, but that still means ending every other round on a lovely note. I poke into this thread every so often to see if any meaningful changes have been made to Hans, but for now KF2 just gathers dust in my library 
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Feb 25, 2016 23:14
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Questioner86 posted:I'll ask the powers that be about that after we fix the stuff that is obviously errors in data collection. Unless some of the gunslinger players in here can confirm that 100% of the time you just say "gently caress it" and take neither perk. 
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Feb 25, 2016 23:15
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Bilal posted:Splash Damage also does this with Dirty Bomb where they collect data on all gameplay that happens and use it for more "insight" into balancing the game. The problem is just as bad in that game. For example, a rifle that everyone used because it was the only good rifle for that class of weapon gets nerfed because the numbers showed too many people were using it- instead of buffing the other inferior weapons to compensate. Then their "balance passes" consist of laughable non-changes such as "increased reload time from 0.3s to 0.4s." I'm sure all this raw data is helpful, but the devs seriously need to sit down and actually play. Having played KF2 it doesn't seem like Tripwire really understand why KF1 was such a satisfying experience. Am I remembering correctly or did the team do a livestream where they played on Normal and then acted like their pro tier Normal gameplay was applicable to the harder modes that people actually play the game on? I don't gently caress around with live stream so I have no idea, but there are people at all skill levels working on the game. Some of the people involved in design play tests play exclusively on HoE in their spare time and have 2000 hours logged in KF1 before they even joined Tripwire. I'm definitely no where close to the best player and I play on Suicidal almost exclusively with about 1100 hours of game time under my belt. We have multiple internal play test groups at different skill levels and all that play test and analytic data is just one more tool in a designers box to help them iterate on stuff.
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Feb 25, 2016 23:19
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Is Sharp out yet?
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Feb 26, 2016 00:10
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Shumagorath posted:Is Sharp out yet? Let's see, here.... -Removed the Any setting from difficulty selection in the matchmaker Nope.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:27
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Capn Beeb posted:I hope the lever action gets the tang sight put back on it, tang sights are neat. I certainly hope we aren't saddled with buckhorns, which are poopy in video games and real life alike. Aperture rears 4 life.
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Feb 26, 2016 03:08
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Questioner86 posted:I don't gently caress around with live stream so I have no idea, but there are people at all skill levels working on the game. Some of the people involved in design play tests play exclusively on HoE in their spare time and have 2000 hours logged in KF1 before they even joined Tripwire. I'm definitely no where close to the best player and I play on Suicidal almost exclusively with about 1100 hours of game time under my belt. We have multiple internal play test groups at different skill levels and all that play test and analytic data is just one more tool in a designers box to help them iterate on stuff. That's fine, but I've never once seen the devs address "Hans. Hard or above. 6 players. With latency" Like, I just want to hear someone say, "Yeah, you should be able to be instantly wiped out, and we find 20 health per heal fine with medic." And whether or not I should stop wasting my time following the game or not. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 03:36
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On the plus side, shoot n scoot owns pretty hard now
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Feb 26, 2016 04:51
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moot the hopple posted:I certainly hope we aren't saddled with buckhorns, which are poopy in video games and real life alike. Aperture rears 4 life. Agreed. Not that I'm biased or anything.  Tangs are just fun. 
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Feb 26, 2016 05:47
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So Hans still sucks? Probably going to uninstall - if I want to be constantly frustrated in a shooter I'll play BF4.
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Feb 26, 2016 05:47
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The crybabying in this thread is something else. One of two bosses being broken (the other one being piss-easy right now, actually) is not a broken game. gently caress, worst case scenario it takes about 30 seconds for your team to try to put their mouths around Hans' swords and go to the next map.
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Feb 26, 2016 05:50
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The crybabying in this thread is something else. One of two bosses being broken (the other one being piss-easy right now, actually) is not a broken game. gently caress, worst case scenario it takes about 30 seconds for your team to try to put their mouths around Hans' swords and go to the next map. It's like a fun challenge seeing the unique ways you can kill yourself when Hans appears, especially on custom maps.
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Feb 26, 2016 05:58
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It's not even good poopsock theory to be tryharding on Hans right now, because the XP/second is way down from what you could be doing.
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Feb 26, 2016 06:00
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The crybabying in this thread is something else. One of two bosses being broken (the other one being piss-easy right now, actually) is not a broken game. gently caress, worst case scenario it takes about 30 seconds for your team to try to put their mouths around Hans' swords and go to the next map. I think the most amusing thing is that most of the people complaining probably have 60+ hours played
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Feb 26, 2016 06:03
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Away all Goats posted:I think the most amusing thing is that most of the people complaining probably have 60+ hours played Yeah, so? I've played it at a lot of different points, and I like the base game. There was just a bad update that made a change the majority of us didn't like.
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Feb 26, 2016 06:15
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Away all Goats posted:I think the most amusing thing is that most of the people complaining probably have 60+ hours played Not sure why you think that's weird, usually people with a lot of hours in a game tend to be the most vocal about it largely because they enjoy it, or enjoyed it.
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Feb 26, 2016 06:18
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Away all Goats posted:I think the most amusing thing is that most of the people complaining probably have 60+ hours played
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Feb 26, 2016 06:24
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:The crybabying in this thread is something else. One of two bosses being broken (the other one being piss-easy right now, actually) is not a broken game i remember a lot of folks saying they don't find it fun and i remember a couple of folks saying that it's super frustrating that these un-fun things aren't being addressed but broken isn't one i've heard before xp poopsocking isn't even part of the equation, people just don't like rocking out for 30 minutes only to effectively lose because a coin came up tails instead of heads
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Feb 26, 2016 06:52
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Away all Goats posted:I think the most amusing thing is that most of the people complaining probably have 60+ hours played I mean, i'm probably done with this game anyway now that everyone in my regular group has given up waiting and moved on to other games and from a silly mathematical viewpoint i probably got "my money's worth" in hours/dollar, but there's a difference between putting down a game because you feel satisfied having done everything you cared for or shelving it early because of persistently flawed and frustrating parts. And all the "you're just whiny crybabies  " isn't nearly as dismissive of EA feedback as the devs just considering it insignificant for months anyway, so who cares at this point.
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Feb 26, 2016 10:11
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RoadCrewWorker posted:I'm sure you'd also consider complaints from people with too few hours invalid because they haven't played the game enough. Certainly hope the people at tripwire are better at drawing conclusions from basic metrics than you. The loving Hotline Miami 2 thread summed up.
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Feb 26, 2016 10:54
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It's different and therefore it's RUINED. butseriouslynerfhansalreadygoddamn Edit: after getting all suicidal cheevos and getting all perks up to 20, I went "gently caress it" and have been grinding perks up to 25 on a perk grinding map before tackling HoE. It says something that even when Hans is gaged and people can take potshots at him, sometimes losses happen because people grow tired of his retarded force field and just suicide or alternatively legit gently caress up when they feed Hans in order to get that field off. Laputanmachine fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 11:08
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Plan Z posted:WoT and WT do this, too. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or what, but I've re-launched them intermittently since playing both of them in their earliest incarnations, and their "balances" of like "increased turn radius by .00135 meters/second" have done nothing, and the same vehicles dominate their tiers like they did years ago. wot occasionally gets things right though like the hellcat and that said, are there any ideas on perk rebalancing? like making lacerate useful or replacing that no-brainer siren skill for the demo, or those commando buffing skills that make multiple dudes redundant. *edit: cromwell is still op as balls though, just the way I like it
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Feb 26, 2016 12:19
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pnutz posted:that said, are there any ideas on perk rebalancing? like making lacerate useful or replacing that no-brainer siren skill for the demo, or those commando buffing skills that make multiple dudes redundant. I don't think Commando is particularly bad as far as perks go. I like its choice between auto and single at the top (with the AK-12 forming a neat bridge for it), and my only real problem is it being hampered by ammo counts at higher difficulties. You are right about the redundancies, though. I've never found stumble to happen all that often, and never when I need it, so if there's any perk that needs attention, it's that (especially if it's up against faster reloads). Maybe give it something like Rack 'Em Up where instead of damage bonuses, it gives you bonuses to recoil and accuracy. Another underappreciated feature of Commando is seeing enemy health bars. This has helped coordinate teams to focus this guy or that guy, making the Commando a sort of attempt at a leader class. Maybe like with Call Out, there was a skill where every teammate could see health bars. They can get info on which scrake/pound they should focus on next. Make this replace Impact, and switch spots with Leadership, so you have one tier deciding on two reload skills, and the next tier focusing on helpful bonuses. This can help with redundancies, too, as having two commandos picking a mixture of these two tiers can provide extra help for a team. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 13:30
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I have 100+ hours in this game, Level 25 in like every perk but one, and 94% of the achievements. I think it's fine for where it is right now. Yea, it's EA and there's room for improvement, Hans sucks and has always sucked, and there's some glaring bugs and outright dumb decisions TWI have made. It wouldn't be a game by TWI if not for these issues, but the fact of the matter is the game is practically still a beta state. We can all admit the core of what's there is good and fun, none of you should have any problems just playing update to update. That's what I do anyway, I don't think I've played KF 2 since early January / mid December. Yes, TWI's communication can be poo poo sometimes. Having played their games for YEARS, I kind of expect this. Doesn't mean it's ok but it's SOP for these guys and constantly bitching about it won't change that fact. I'm not suggesting none of you guys "stop whining" or anything since everyone is entitled to their feedback, but maybe just play other games while they get their poo poo together for this?
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Feb 26, 2016 14:59
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Skoll posted:Yes, TWI's communication can be poo poo sometimes. Having played their games for YEARS, I kind of expect this. Doesn't mean it's ok but it's SOP for these guys and constantly bitching about it won't change that fact. I'm not suggesting none of you guys "stop whining" or anything since everyone is entitled to their feedback, but maybe just play other games while they get their poo poo together for this? I get where you're coming from. But it would be nice if we could aspire to more than tacit acceptance of mediocre performance.
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Feb 26, 2016 15:20
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I get where you're coming from. But it would be nice if we could aspire to more than tacit acceptance of mediocre performance. You can choose not to, but it's pretty Sisyphean to think they're going to change.  To each their own.
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Feb 26, 2016 15:26
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Skoll posted:It wouldn't be a game by TWI if not for these issues, but the fact of the matter is the game is practically still a beta state. I guess it's too much to hope that they use that beta state to actually test poo poo. Push out an update, see what people like and don't like. Something didn't work out? Roll it back, try something else. Just do something instead of outright ignoring everyone and plugging their ears whenever someone says the words "Hans" and "Demo".
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Feb 26, 2016 17:16
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Sykic posted:I guess it's too much to hope that they use that beta state to actually test poo poo. Push out an update, see what people like and don't like. Something didn't work out? Roll it back, try something else. Just do something instead of outright ignoring everyone and plugging their ears whenever someone says the words "Hans" and "Demo". The bigger issue with them is they internally test poo poo so much to perfection or whatever their version of it is they miss a lot. I agree that they should just release poo poo into the wild and let the community bug hunt and test it for them. They're so intent on having the most polished beta that the reason the game is dried up is because for people like me, there is nothing left to do.
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Feb 26, 2016 17:19
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Skoll posted:You can choose not to, but it's pretty Sisyphean to think they're going to change. Yeah. I know. *returns to hitting dick with hammer*
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Feb 26, 2016 19:06
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LuciferMorningstar posted:*returns to hitting dick with hammer* coincidentally what I say I'm doing when I play KF2
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Feb 26, 2016 20:16
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Yeah. I know. *returns to hitting dick with hammer* Hey that looks fun, got room in your game?
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Feb 26, 2016 20:18
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Sykic posted:Hey that looks fun, got room in your game? Sure. We can even take turns hitting each other. No gay stuff, though.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:03
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At the very least, some way to host a game to keep extra level 0 pubs from joining and kicking up the difficulty would be nice to make up for my insanely bruised dick.
Plan Z fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 21:09
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