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Daily Forecast posted:^ and my point is that that's what you'd have to do to change screen brightness if you had no quick toggles at all. Users obsessively janitoring stuff like WiFi and Location Settings results in them having a worse experience, which as an Android evangelist is bad to me. The OS silently uses all this stuff in concert to provide a best-in-class experience.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:56
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Smythe posted:You're confused. I'm saying that notification panes that have this horse poo poo on them: Nah, might not be the best, but it works fine for me. I'm making the best of the negative parts of Touchwiz because I have to use a Samsung device because of work and I'm not gonna be a whiny bitch about it.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:58
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Most people, most of the time, should not be toggling most of the things. It's good for Android to provide the ability to toggle such things. It is not good from a UI/UX perspective to put those things almost front and center to encourage people to use them and to expect them. The fact that such toggles take up notification space is a secondary issue. It's not like it makes the phone unusable..or even impacts our experience much at all on a day to day basis, and those of us (well most of us) who recognize the UI/UX problems don't sit around looking at our Samsung phones in disgust, but it is indicative of bad design. If you disagree, you're literally a bad person. Can we stop posting about this now?
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Feb 28, 2016 21:59
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Smythe posted:which as an Android evangelist  Okay I cannot continue this discussion without saying some really rude things so I guess I'm bowing out. Later.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:04
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Daily Forecast posted:
Cool post.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:17
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Grumpwagon posted:I want to acknowledge that at least for me this is mostly true. The differences between, say, that picture of the G2's out of box notification screen is way different than say, this: It looks like your issue with the toggles isn't the fact that they exist but what they are. Although there are legitimate situations where you might want to toggle wifi or Bluetooth on or off it's true that they're not something you should be toggling constantly. The toggles are customizable though and having a quick way to toggle things like power saving, private mode, the flashlight or do not disturb is convenient, they also serve as direct shortcuts to various settings. I think the idea that the presence of this toggles is "bad design" or indicative of a lack of care for the user experience is inaccurate. It's a different way of doing things than stock Android, but it's not objectively better or worse. Your concern with device security certainly is valid, and something users should definitely care about. However your opinion that these custom UI are making the phones less secure and harder to update isn't quite correct. Samsung and Motorola have been keeping up with their monthly security updates regardless of their changes to the OS. Your issue regarding security is an issue with the carriers, not the OEM. As anyone who's owned a carrier branded Nexus can tell you, it doesn't matter how quick the updates are released or how pristine your version of Android is, it doesn't mean poo poo if your carrier won't release the update for your phone.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:41
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Desk Lamp posted:I think the idea that the presence of this toggles is "bad design" or indicative of a lack of care for the user experience is inaccurate. And which toggles come shown as default?
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Feb 28, 2016 22:50
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I don't like my iPhone 5S anymore because its slow and bad now. I'm worried that the 6 series of Apple phones will be slow and bad in a year like the 5 series is now. Do I want a Nexus 6P or 5X or a Samsung S7 right now?
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Feb 28, 2016 22:52
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Keg posted:I don't like my iPhone 5S anymore because its slow and bad now. I'm worried that the 6 series of Apple phones will be slow and bad in a year like the 5 series is now. Do I want a Nexus 6P or 5X or a Samsung S7 right now? Android phones will likely be even worse. If you still want an Android phone, 6P or S7 will be the best for "not slow and bad in a year".
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Feb 28, 2016 22:55
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Skarsnik posted:My first thought when I saw your post was 'holy poo poo you consider £44 a month for your phone a great deal??' It's a great deal when that tariff gives you 10GB mobile data, and the upfront cost for a brand new flagship is £29 instead of the usual £189.99. Compare that to the other flagship phones when they come out. I also get 20% discount due to my employer, so it's £35.20 a month for unlimited minutes and texts, on top of the 10GB mobile data. Even without the discount, it beats the cost everyone else is charging for the phone and a similar tariff. Rastor posted:The official Samsung wireless charging pad may be the best choice, now that they have an angled one. Cheers. Would the Tylt charger charge the battery at whatever is consider Fast for wireless?
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Feb 28, 2016 23:01
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LastInLine posted:As Grumpwagon accurately said, the fact that the toggles are there at all is encouragement to use them and the fact is you shouldn't be using them. This, but about power buttons.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:08
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Desk Lamp posted:Your opinion that these custom UI are making the phones less secure and harder to update isn't quite correct. Samsung and Motorola have been keeping up with their monthly security updates regardless of their changes to the OS.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:11
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Thermopyle posted:And which toggles come shown as default? You can make the argument that the defaults are not the best, that doesn't invalidate the entire concept of the toggles though. Little issues like that are peppered all over Android regardless of manufacturer.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:13
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:Just get the S7. datajosh posted:Since you're coming from a S4, I'd lean towards the regular S7, but you can try them both out at Best Buy to get a better idea before you pre-order. vyst posted:If your hands are even relatively tiny, you'll probably be happier with the Galaxy S7. Thanks for the tiny-hand-centric advice, y'all. I do already have some external battery packs I already take around with me when I think battery life will be an issue. I'll stick with the vanilla S7 like you said and put the savings to look at replacing my various generic chargers at home and work with ones that are Fast Charge / Quick Charge compatible, in order to better take advantage of the phone's features.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:19
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Desk Lamp posted:You can make the argument that the defaults are not the best, that doesn't invalidate the entire concept of the toggles though. Little issues like that are peppered all over Android regardless of manufacturer. I'm not going to go back and read every thing said about them, but my impression is that the main argument has been that quick toggles encourage people to be toggling thing that they don't need to toggle, not that toggles are bad. At the very least, I certainly wouldn't argue that the idea of toggles are bad.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:32
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Standard update policy appears to be: Apple: Continue providing security and feature updates as long as devices can handle them - as is clear with the iPhone 4 this may continue longer than it should but as long as it's not falling over itself better over than under. Nexus: Monthly feature updates to 2 years from initial release-to-market; monthly security updates for a third year and to 18 months past final exhaustion from the Google Store. This is an official policy, and Google has maintained the security part (more or less) even when carriers operate in poor faith. Samsung and LG have publicly committed to monthly security patches, but only to flagship devices and with no guarantee of support time (or even what makes a device a flagship). They don't seem to have committed to anything about major point/API updates. Motorola seems to be supporting major devices with major updates for a minimum of 18 months. Unless the carrier whines at all. Or they just don't feel like it. Or it's just security stuff. Sony appears okay if they issue what they call a Concept program for it. If. Who even knows with Asus/Huawei/nVidia/whoever, and if you get a free Android with your plan expect it to stay the way it is forever (in other words, free is too much to pay for it). What's real disappointing is that it seems like no one but Google cares about subpoint releases (5.1 -> 5.1.1; 6.0 -> 6.0.1; etc.). And any which way Android TV is hideously neglected and TV manufacturers are probably even bigger jerks than ATV device manufacturers. If you intend to do Android, you will probably intensely regret not going late-model Nexus. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 23:41
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Endless Mike posted:Smythe did you consider that maybe he has a physical issue making downward swipes extremely difficult so removing a second one is a great convenience? Please be kind to the handicapped. You don't have to swipe anyway, double tap to open notifications, tap again for toggles.
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Feb 29, 2016 00:07
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Keg posted:I don't like my iPhone 5S anymore because its slow and bad now. I'm worried that the 6 series of Apple phones will be slow and bad in a year like the 5 series is now. Do I want a Nexus 6P or 5X or a Samsung S7 right now? If you can handle its size, get the Nexus 6P. If you can't, get the Samsung S7.
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Feb 29, 2016 00:09
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Keg posted:I don't like my iPhone 5S anymore because its slow and bad now. I'm worried that the 6 series of Apple phones will be slow and bad in a year like the 5 series is now. Do I want a Nexus 6P or 5X or a Samsung S7 right now? Uninstall Facebook.
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Feb 29, 2016 01:04
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Sir Unimaginative posted:Uninstall Facebook. New thread title.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:42
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Keg posted:I don't like my iPhone 5S anymore because its slow and bad now. I'm worried that the 6 series of Apple phones will be slow and bad in a year like the 5 series is now. Do I want a Nexus 6P or 5X or a Samsung S7 right now? Your 5S should not be slow by any stretch of the imagination. Restore it to factory settings.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:43
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FAUXTON posted:New thread title. I feel like that doesn't capture the quick toggle angst nearly enough.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:43
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He wouldn't be having this problem if there were a quick toggle for the Facebook app.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:48
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Man I miss Grimbo
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Feb 29, 2016 03:30
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Quick toggles are one area where I think Apple has the right idea. Tying quick settings to the notification panel is stupid regardless of how it's done because they're separate goals that have nothing to do with each other. If I want to check my notifications I don't need access to toggles, and on the rare occasion I need to change a setting I don't need notifications getting in the way. Combining them at all is asinine, and Google and Samsung's approaches are just different versions of the same bad idea.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:32
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sethsez posted:Quick toggles are one area where I think Apple has the right idea. Tying quick settings to the notification panel is stupid regardless of how it's done because they're separate goals that have nothing to do with each other. If I want to check my notifications I don't need access to toggles, and on the rare occasion I need to change a setting I don't need notifications getting in the way. Combining them at all is asinine, and Google and Samsung's approaches are just different versions of the same bad idea. I agree with this post. The Control Center is my favorite part of iOS, and the only thing I miss about it. especially the whatever music/podcast/audio shows up with a timestamp in the control center and on the lock screen part. I think the toggles are fine the way they are but if we're talking ideals, they do it the best.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:35
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Galaxy S7 edge: is the screen worth while? Or is it a stupid gimmick?
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Feb 29, 2016 03:43
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Lowen SoDium posted:Galaxy S7 edge: is the screen worth while? Or is it a stupid gimmick? it is only 'worthwhile' if you think it looks cool. the shortcuts and news reel and other minimally-convenient shortcuts are very much secondary to the wow effect of the curve.
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Feb 29, 2016 03:49
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I'm eyeballing the Edge mainly because of the much larger battery.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:00
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BottleKnight posted:I agree with this post. The Control Center is my favorite part of iOS, and the only thing I miss about it. especially the whatever music/podcast/audio shows up with a timestamp in the control center and on the lock screen part. I almost mentioned this when Daily Forecast was linking the iPhone thread for people who understand that toggles are unnecessary because iOS actually puts toggles into a dedicated area which is universally accessible. It's almost like that would fit his needless janitoring obsession far better but I digress. What I will say is that I've found the Control Center in iOS to be an especially useless thing. Why are there playback controls always exposed? Why are there toggles I'll never need? Why is it in such a prominent location? Well, I guess that last reason is because they don't have context-sensitive actionable notifications that are as easily accessible for playback controls but it still seems oddly front and center. The thing about that panel is that there are things that need to accessed easily and Android has wrestled with it since Froyo and they still aren't great at it. First there were the third party skins that added the toggles in the notification pane which is how they got there in TouchWiz, then there was the Quick Settings Panel which was just weird and never really fully developed (proven in the way that CM and other mods made it so much better so easily such as making it "the other side" of the notification shade), and now we have the pull down twice thing and it still isn't great. There still needs to be a place where flashlight controls, DND, airplane mode and things like that need to live and I think sethsez is right that fundamentally the notification area should not be where toggles are. I have a tough time putting into context where those things live now--are they in a shade of their own that's behind the notification shade? Unlike Control Center, I just don't feel like those things are in a proper home so I guess I'm agreeing with you and sethsez in that, yes, something like the Control Center makes logical sense to have and where they are now in Android just feels wrong but I'm not a fan of the actual implementation on iOS either. I think I'd say that it's very much a universally unsolved problem and I can see positives and negatives to everyone's way of handling it. This post is already too long but it occurs to me that the reason it's so difficult to do right is that there's no other natural attribute that ties all of the stuff you'd want to toggle except that they're stuff you'd want to toggle. I mean there's nothing else about the flashlight, DND, airplane mode, or auto-rotation that makes them in any way like any of the others.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:16
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BottleKnight posted:it is only 'worthwhile' if you think it looks cool. the shortcuts and news reel and other minimally-convenient shortcuts are very much secondary to the wow effect of the curve. Let me rephrase a bit. Does the screen curve interfere with anything?
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Feb 29, 2016 04:28
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LastInLine posted:I almost mentioned this when Daily Forecast was linking the iPhone thread for people who understand that toggles are unnecessary because iOS actually puts toggles into a dedicated area which is universally accessible. It's almost like that would fit his needless janitoring obsession far better but I digress. I should clarify that I don't like the actual design of Control Center and think it definitely has its own issues, but accessing it is absolutely superior to Android or TouchWiz. Full disclosure, I like Samsung's current approach more than Google's, but I think they're both attempts to pound a square peg into a round hole and arguing about which is better misses the fact that both of their issues are caused by trying to mitigate the same misguided core design choice.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:31
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Too many things fly in from sides in iOS. It's worse than Windows 8 ever was with the magic corners now.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:38
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Double chop to toggle flashlight. Triple chop to toggle GPS. Spin phone on index finger to toggle wifi. Etc. Etc. No need for on-screen toggles.  But seriously, I've yet to have a chance to really play with a modern Android phone using the latest OS, but I always thought that the notification pane showed your 4 or 5 most used toggles that you could customize and the rest were hidden in the expanded pane that was reached by pulling further/double-finger swiping. I personally always thought that was a cool idea, giving me the option to choose which ones I want to use (wifi toggle, flashlight, orientation lock) and stashing away the rest. Turns out it's not like that??
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Feb 29, 2016 04:44
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I think the notification shade is the most logical place for those toggles, whether it's the Nexus or OEM approach. They're always available so for example you're browsing and want to see a picture in landscape you can quickly toggle screen rotation on or off without leaving whatever app you're on. I can't imagine where else you could place it where it would be as convenient and accessible.quote:But seriously, I've yet to have a chance to really play with a modern Android phone using the latest OS, but I always thought that the notification pane showed your 4 or 5 most used toggles that you could customize and the rest were hidden in the expanded pane that was reached by pulling further/double-finger swiping. I personally always thought that was a cool idea, giving me the option to choose which ones I want to use (wifi toggle, flashlight, orientation lock) and stashing away the rest. Turns out it's not like that?? That's how it is on Samsung phones, on Nexus phones they're all hidden behind a double swipe down. Desk Lamp fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 04:44
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sethsez posted:I should clarify that I don't like the actual design of Control Center and think it definitely has its own issues, but accessing it is absolutely superior to Android or TouchWiz. Full disclosure, I like Samsung's current approach more than Google's, but I think they're both attempts to pound a square peg into a round hole and arguing about which is better misses the fact that both of their issues are caused by trying to mitigate the same misguided core design choice. I can agree with this except to ask that were it not for the fact that playback controls are there, would you hold the same opinion? To my mind, I'd say that the current Android implementation of playback controls being located in a persistent ongoing notification to be more logical than locating them in a hypothetical Android Control Center given the notification-centric UX Android encourages. Given that iOS isn't built around that same core and background audio would need a place to "live", the Control Center makes for a logical and accessible home for such and as it must exist for that purpose, those other sundry toggles can just as easily fall to that location without protest. I feel like though Android doesn't have that same real need for a playback control place and without that, the rest of the toggles are too seldom used to justify such a front and center place on the phone. broken clock opsec posted:Too many things fly in from sides in iOS. It's worse than Windows 8 ever was with the magic corners now. Amen brother.
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Feb 29, 2016 04:56
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Lowen SoDium posted:Galaxy S7 edge: is the screen worth while? Or is it a stupid gimmick? I went with the Edge entirely due to the bigger battery. I can't imagine the edge makes any difference after the first ten minutes of unboxing.
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Feb 29, 2016 08:48
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I honestly can't imagine anyone who's used an android phone that considers the iOS notification pane good in any way. It's terrible in every way. The control centre is better but is filled with useless things that clutter it up for no reason. Both are the worst parts of the OS, right next to the illogical and scattered approach it takes to settings.
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Feb 29, 2016 10:55
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nerdrum posted:I went with the Edge entirely due to the bigger battery. I can't imagine the edge makes any difference after the first ten minutes of unboxing. As an S6 Edge owner that purchased it at launch I can say the only reason I bought it was because it looks cooler than the normal S6. Sure, they tried to sell me on the advantages of the edge notification crap, but I never use those ever as they're terrible. It just looks cool. Also, I like that when the phone is face down and I get a text from someone in my favorites thing the side glows whatever color tab they are on. It's definitely a gimmick, but I like it. With the S7 edge being 5.5" now Im not sure I will upgrade to that one, but we'll see when its available and I hold one.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:06
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Rastor posted:If you can handle its size, get the Nexus 6P. If you can't, get the Samsung S7. Is there someone I can touch a 6P in store? I played with the S7 at Best Buy and it's real nice, but a Nexus phone is always more appealing to me. I'm just not sure I'm ready for such a gigantic phone.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:47
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