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Rocksicles posted:They burnt some weird toxic sap dude... no one had any acid burns... Yeah, the acid tree sap was shown earlier dropping onto Octavia. Then they were putting it on the sticks they were setting up for the fires. It was Chekov's Acid Tree Sap. Kegslayer posted:Were they actually intending to join up though? An interesting theory. That would explain how the earth went from "totally nuked, everyone died" in the eyes of the Ark to "whelp, it's lousy with people, there's literally tribes of thousands around Washington and we never noticed." This would mean that the Earth WAS as depopulated as they thought, except the people hiding in Mt Wx (and presumably in other bunkers in other countries) and the only Grounders are former spacers. I'd also bet that when Becca tried to make ALIE 2.0, that program as well tried to take over, and it was the fear of it controlling the Ark's computers that caused either the 12 Depending on whether or not the original President of Mount Wx knew about ALIE and it's role in starting the war, if he knew that it's creator had hosed off to space and was trying to make a new AI, it would also explain why Mt Wx never tried to contact the Ark (at least in the beginning). ALIE is doing far more than suppressing physical pain and giving them a cool Matrix world to jack into. The way she erased Jaha's memory of his son shows she's doing real mind control poo poo. People ought to be afraid of that because she's more dangerous than the Mountain Men and Clarke combined. It's also pretty dumb to numb all physical pain. They should show what happens when some idiot breaks his leg and ALIE shuts off his pain receptors and he's walking around on it all "I'M TOTALLY FINE THIS DOESN'T HURT AT ALL WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT?!" Pain does serve a function of protecting the body from more damage...
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Feb 28, 2016 14:18
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I didn't connect the poison smoke with the toxic sap thing either, for what it's worth.
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Feb 28, 2016 14:29
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ALIE blocks all kinds of pain. Like the emotional pain one might feel when remembering how they sent their son to the ground to die and then found out he did die. Raven didn't give a flip about Finn's ashes, either. ALIE is blocking their painful memories. So if Jasper took it, he would forget about Maya and the Mountain ...and pretty much everything.
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Feb 28, 2016 17:17
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It's also reasonable that Mt Weather's acid fog was a more high-tech weaponized version of the acid sap, and not the other way around.
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Feb 28, 2016 17:17
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Snak posted:It's also reasonable that Mt Weather's acid fog was a more high-tech weaponized version of the acid sap, and not the other way around. No, the acid fog was actual pure acid. The tree sap one is not that weird, there's several plants that have either precursors to or a small amount of chemical agents in them as natural products, so collecting a sap that makes a blister agent when it's burned isn't really that crazy.
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Feb 28, 2016 18:23
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If the acid fog was pure acid it would have damaged the plants as well. The forest was fine and not completely destroyed by the acid fog. This makes sense if it's a weaponized form of acid sap that doesn't hurt the trees.
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Feb 28, 2016 18:55
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Snak posted:It's also reasonable that Mt Weather's acid fog was a more high-tech weaponized version of the acid sap, and not the other way around. I agree, the acid fog made from acid that was stored in massive containers that said "ACID" and that Bellamy identified as made of several entirely discrete chemicals that when combined form sulfuric acid was definitely made from tree sap It also seems patently reasonable that the Mountain Men donned their hazmat suits and were conducting complex logging operations to harvest giant vats full of tree sap
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Feb 28, 2016 18:59
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Yeah I'm with Snak on this one. The symptoms of the fog on humans were very similar. The kids in season 1 who got caught in it and the girl who got caught in it this episode all died by suffocation. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Mt. Weather had found a way to mass-produce and weaponize the tree sap.
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Feb 28, 2016 19:00
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They could have analyzed the tree sap and made its active ingredient in a lab. Or do you think that "acid" is an element on the periodic table? I don't even understand this argument.
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Feb 28, 2016 19:08
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Snak posted:They could have analyzed the tree sap and made its active ingredient in a lab. Or do you think that "acid" is an element on the periodic table? I don't even understand this argument. He just doesn't understand how chemistry works.
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Feb 28, 2016 19:09
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I believe the tree sap smoke just hurt their lungs while the acid fog from the Mt left blistered burns on people. Whether or not that means they aren't the same...I don't know? I imagine the toxic sap is a feature of the post-nuclear war world, and not something that Mt. Weather would have had on hand as a biological warfare/defense feature from before the war.
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Feb 28, 2016 19:17
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hollylolly posted:I believe the tree sap smoke just hurt their lungs while the acid fog from the Mt left blistered burns on people. Yeah, like Snak said, if they extracted its active ingredients, they could have made it a lot more potent when weaponizing it. Keep in mind that's how a lot of modern medicine is made: take a compound that exists in nature and make it work better.
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Feb 28, 2016 19:21
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Maybe the toxic sap was actually a aid effect of the acid fog. Like the trees absorbed it and adapted to it. It makes sense that if the guys who designed Mt weather had the option of designing a weapon that didn't destroy vegetation, they would. Edit: I basically constantly forget that it's only been a hundred years, because it seems like is been more like 300...
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Feb 28, 2016 19:21
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Snak posted:They could have analyzed the tree sap and made its active ingredient in a lab. Option A: the subterranean scaredymen who are terrified to leave their warren discovered on one of their jaunts through the forest a highly toxic sap in an eastern seaboard tree (one that has to be a result of either the nuclear fallout or the acid fog itself because I'm pretty sure that ain't a thing), thought to themselves "hmm let us make a fogweapon out of this", fabricated massive vats to hold the synthesized acid, jury-rigged an elaborate computerized/mechanical system for mixing up the fog (out of whatever they had in their bunker), and designed and built some sort of dispersal system for delivering the synthesized chemicals Option B: it was a preexisting weapon that the underground military base of last resort came with or hidden option C: it was originally intended to be a natural phenomenon that they retconned into a mt weather weapon because it makes no goddamn sense either way and we've probably put more thought into it than the writers did
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Feb 28, 2016 19:42
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hollylolly posted:ALIE blocks all kinds of pain. Like the emotional pain one might feel when remembering how they sent their son to the ground to die and then found out he did die. Raven didn't give a flip about Finn's ashes, either. ALIE is blocking their painful memories. Yeah, when Abby brought up Wells and Jaha literally didn't remember him, I was like "... oh poo poo' They are doing a good job of making ALIE sinister as gently caress.
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Feb 28, 2016 20:37
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WarLocke posted:Yeah, when Abby brought up Wells and Jaha literally didn't remember him, I was like "... oh poo poo' "Wells?" was as close to a literal jawdropper as possible. Perfectly delivered too, Washington is killing the psycho preacher poo poo
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Feb 28, 2016 20:41
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Soothing Vapors posted:"Wells?" was as close to a literal jawdropper as possible. Perfectly delivered too, Washington is killing the psycho preacher poo poo I liked the touch of ALIE having to remind Jaha (visual shorthand for her restoring the memories so Jaha can try to play it off?) Just 
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Feb 28, 2016 20:54
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VagueRant posted:I really liked Octavia for the first of this episode. Scouting the Pikemen, saving the kid, warning the village, "Couldn't have spoken up before I got kicked in the face? *spits blood*" But then she gets knocked out by an old man and just starts getting tugged along by the tide of plot convenience... The whole Bellamy thing is really bugging me. It's really getting into Finn 2.0 territory here. This show has started to develop a bad habit of forgetting past characterization just to further the plot. The show has done a pretty good job doing redemption arcs. After all, who would have thought back at the beginning of the first season that Kane would be the voice of reason? It's just really, really bad at showing people going down the road paved with good intentions. Bellam has previously been shown to accept that there are some good grounders. I can get why the rest of Arcadia has gone all 'Kill them all and let God sort it out' against the grounders and voting for Pike. Since from what we've seen, Clarke, Octavia, Kane, Bellamy, Abby, and a handful of extras are pretty much the only skycrew people that have had any extensive interactions with grounders, outside of fighting grounders to the death. (Well, Jaha and Murphy have also hung out with grounders, but they didn't get to vote. Their absentee ballots were lost. I guess Kevin Costner and Tom Petty didn't survive this Apocolypse. ) I mean, I can see Raven taking the blue pill since she's in constant pain and at a low point in her life. That is kind of how cults operate. enraged_camel posted:Yeah, like Snak said, if they extracted its active ingredients, they could have made it a lot more potent when weaponizing it. For all the talk about how plants produce noxious chemical weapons, I'm kind of surprised that nobody has brought up capsaicin. If you put hot sauce on your dinner, odds are you ate capsaicin. It's the chemical that chilis produce to keep mammals from eating their seeds. (Birds don't event taste capsaicin. Capsaicin is also a severe irritant to most mammals. Evolution is weirdly awesome.) Capsaicin can also be weaponized to produce pepper spray. So the same chemical you put put on your taco or Indian food to spice things up is also regularly used for riot control. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 10:11
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I have patience, and enough faith in them to see this through without clutching my pearls all the time.
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Feb 29, 2016 10:30
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thrakkorzog posted:I can get why the rest of Arcadia has gone all 'Kill them all and let God sort it out' against the grounders and voting for Pike. Kane said the election was a close one. For all we know, Pike got only 51% of the vote. I'm glad they didn't focus on that though, because elections in general suck in TV shows. I still have nightmares about how Battlestar Galactica for that reason.
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Feb 29, 2016 10:36
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Elections in shows are bad because the conflict-oriented character has to win for the elections to not have been a waste of time.
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Feb 29, 2016 10:48
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From the various interviews/feeds that have come out since, it seems like the cast were just as confused about the character changes as we where and aren't exactly happy about them.
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Feb 29, 2016 12:17
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Man, Ricky Whittle isn't even trying to hide the fact that Lincoln gets killed off. Check his Twitter if you want to see. I'd link it but apparently that automatically embeds the tweet and spoilers tags don't work on it or something. Spergatory fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 15:24
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thrakkorzog posted:The whole Bellamy thing is really bugging me. It's really getting into Finn 2.0 territory here. This show has started to develop a bad habit of forgetting past characterization just to further the plot. The show has done a pretty good job doing redemption arcs. After all, who would have thought back at the beginning of the first season that Kane would be the voice of reason? It's just really, really bad at showing people going down the road paved with good intentions. Bellam has previously been shown to accept that there are some good grounders. Bellamy was the most anti-grounder Ark person until Pike showed up. He didn't spend last season singing Kumbaya around the fire place with the grounders. He accepted the need to work together against a common foe, and risked everything to make an alliance between them work, but was repeatedly backstabbed. First it was Lincoln, then Lexa not only left him and his people to die, but forced him to kill the good Mountain Men that saved his rear end, and finally the grounder who best understands what Bellamy did to save them exploited his trust to blow up Mountain Weather. Kane was really the only thing keeping Bellamy's natural instincts at bay, but Kane was a poor leader. He didn't do anything to make the peace tangible, and neither did Indra or Lexa.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:02
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I think that's pretty accurate. It's a common flaw in leadership to over-estimate the amount that your followers, especially young ones, actually understand your mindset and vision. Kane has ideas and a vision of the future, but he did not take steps to make sure that people like Bellamy were really on the same page as him. He and Abby were too accustomed to having a literally captive constituency on the Ark.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:58
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Spergatory posted:spoilers Err, something weird happened to your tweet that you quoted and spoiler tags aren't working.
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Feb 29, 2016 18:51
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Boris Galerkin posted:Err, something weird happened to your tweet that you quoted and spoiler tags aren't working. Did it automatically embed or something? I'm on my phone so it just looks like a link to me and spoiler tags are covering it just fine.
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Feb 29, 2016 20:06
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Snak posted:I think that's pretty accurate. Actually, the problem isn't Kane. The problem is Clarke. She was the one holding Bellamy in line. His chasing after her at the beginning of the season is a reflection of his internal struggle and self-doubt. Clarke was the one keeping his rear end in a top hat side in check, and now that she's far away, he's back to his old self (if you remember how he was at the beginning of season 1, he was basically Pike).
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Feb 29, 2016 21:13
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This show is getting more and more like BSG each episode...
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Feb 29, 2016 21:21
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Rurea posted:This show is getting more and more like BSG each episode... Except this show isn't trash.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:22
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Johnny Truant posted:Except this show isn't trash. BSG was good up until Starbuck came back from the dead. It was downhill from there and the ending sucked. edit: drat autocorrect
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Feb 29, 2016 21:23
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enraged_camel posted:Actually, the problem isn't Kane. The problem is Clarke. She was the one holding Bellamy in line. His chasing after her at the beginning of the season is a reflection of his internal struggle and self-doubt. Clarke was the one keeping his rear end in a top hat side in check, and now that she's far away, he's back to his old self (if you remember how he was at the beginning of season 1, he was basically Pike). Oh I actually agree with this too. Clarke running off was the worst thing she could have done for her people. Up until she left, Treekru considered her the leader of Skaikru and she had some real diplomatic status with them. Then she left and hosed everything up. I understand why she did, but it was bad for everyone.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:32
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enraged_camel posted:BSG was good up until Starbuck came back from the dead. It was downhill from there and the ending sucked. BSG was good for like all of half of the first season until you realized that the writers had no loving idea how to actually drive the premise anywhere meaningful.
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Feb 29, 2016 22:08
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We'll always have 33.
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Feb 29, 2016 22:29
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Snak posted:I think that's pretty accurate. This might go the farthest towards explaining the dumb mistakes Abby and Kane made when they should have been nailing pretty easy decisions. They did want to do the right thing, but they always managed to gently caress it up. This is probably why.
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Mar 1, 2016 07:36
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TyrantWD posted:Bellamy was the most anti-grounder Ark person until Pike showed up. He didn't spend last season singing Kumbaya around the fire place with the grounders. He accepted the need to work together against a common foe, and risked everything to make an alliance between them work, but was repeatedly backstabbed. First it was Lincoln, then Lexa not only left him and his people to die, but forced him to kill the good Mountain Men that saved his rear end, and finally the grounder who best understands what Bellamy did to save them exploited his trust to blow up Mountain Weather. Fair points. But Bellamy really hadn't expressed much anti-grounder sentiment this season, and seemed to be at least OK with his sister dating Lincoln, and tried to help Lincoln when he could. Right up to the point where he decided to go kill 300 grounders. There wasn't any real build up to Bellamy being so anti-grounder that he's willing to commit war crimes against them.
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Mar 1, 2016 10:37
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Xoidanor posted:BSG was good for like all of half of the first season until you realized that the writers had no loving idea how to actually drive the premise anywhere meaningful. The Cylons were created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. They look and feel Human. Some are programmed to think they are human. There are many copies. And their "plan" makes no drat sense at all.
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Mar 1, 2016 13:39
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Every time Pike or anyone claims they can defeat the Grounders, I keep thinking Rhett Butler will walk in and do that thing where he mocks all the wannabe-soldiers for blatantly underestimating just how out-manned and screwed they are. The
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Mar 2, 2016 03:09
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thrakkorzog posted:Fair points. There was that bit where a member-state of Lexa's coalition murdered every last Farm Station refugee living in Mount Weather. Killing a bunch of women and kids with fire is kind of a big deal to some people.
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Mar 2, 2016 21:57
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jfood posted:There was that bit where a member-state of Lexa's coalition murdered every last Farm Station refugee living in Mount Weather. Killing a bunch of women and kids with fire is kind of a big deal to some people. Not a big deal to the grounders apparently since they settled for Finns death when he did the same thing last season.
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Mar 2, 2016 22:01
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