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Lessail posted:It's cool how this thread will go all "why do republican voters vote the way they do so we can try and get them to cross over" but the second the youth vote is brought up it's all "gently caress them" Why do you keep talking about people who refuse to vote as "the youth vote"? Also you seem to be really confused, thinking this is the headquarters of the DNC and not just a random internet thread that only a few thousand people have ever seen.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:22
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Jarmak posted:Why? Why would you move away from a solid reliable voting bloc in favor of one that one that *might* come out if we pander exclusively to it and do everything it wants? So you believe that voters should should elect politicians on zero promises or attention, and then afterwards those politicians should look out for them? Not that politicians should advocate a group's interests, and thereby earn their votes? This doesn't seem backwards to you? Also lol at "exclusively pander to". There is a large middle ground between "exclusively pander to" and "neglect entirely" which is basically what is happening now.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:22
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Chomp8645 posted:"Youth suck they've never vote so gently caress em" Do you believe civic engagement is a duty for citizens or only a reward for political parties that pander enough?
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Mar 5, 2016 19:22
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fishmech posted:Why do you keep talking about people who refuse to vote as "the youth vote"? Also you seem to be really confused, thinking this is the headquarters of the DNC and not just a random internet thread that only a few thousand people have ever seen. I think you're confused
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Mar 5, 2016 19:22
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If you think the parties aren't listening to you and you refuse to engage the parties to change it, your best option is to found a new party. Dropping out of the political process in fact doesn't help multiply your voice.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:24
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Trabisnikof posted:Do you believe civic engagement is a duty for citizens or only a reward for political parties that pander enough? I think that it is a citizen's duty to vote provided that there is a reasonable expectation that the candidates on offer will look after that citizen's interests. Currently the youth do not have such an expectation. I see nothing immoral or otherwise irresponsible about not voting if you cannot expect your vote to serve your interests in any significant way.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:24
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Chomp8645 posted:So you believe that voters should should elect politicians on zero promises or attention, and then afterwards those politicians should look out for them? Not that politicians should advocate a group's interests, and thereby earn their votes? This doesn't seem backwards to you? Hey buddy, politicians need to appeal much more people than just "the youth vote". If you do that you lose. For an example why this is a losing strategy see Sanders, Bernie. The young are not being "entirely neglected" though, that's a bullshit excuse from people too lazy to vote or even think about politics.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:25
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Is it not the duty of the peasants to lumber forth from their hovels and prostrate themselves before the noble lord that would beat them the least? Is this not befitting of the station of their birth? Should they not be joyous in raising up their betters that at times may consider blessing them with scraps from their own tables even before their own hounds? Hounds, I may add, display far more loyalty and have been sired through far better breeding.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:25
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Lessail posted:I think you're confused I think you're arguing with fishmech.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:26
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Grouchio posted:What should I tell my father who fears that Trump gets the anti-establishment vote and carries the election? When anti-establishments vote, they vote for Democrats.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:26
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fishmech posted:It's impossible to listen to people who refuse to make their voices heard. Young people who bother to vote don't get ignored. I agree. Voting is one of the most basically important functions of a democratic society. A refusal to vote is the opposite of political action; it is political inaction, and inaction is neither productive nor something that engenders interest. And I say this as a young person myself.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:27
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Just lol if you think humanity is surviving a single year of president Trump. Seriously, a trump presidency and the democrats response will justify all the intransigence the gop has been running since day 1 of the Obama administration.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:27
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Chomp8645 posted:I think that it is a citizen's duty to vote provided that there is a reasonable expectation that the candidates on offer will look after that citizen's interests. Currently the youth do not have such an expectation. You mean, you personally feel the youth doesn't have such an expectation. The YDA and YRNF have plenty of members. If you're a youth who feels the party isn't listening, have you gone to any party meetings and asked them to listen? Have you tried to add platform planks? There are ways to change the parties rather than passive-aggressively not-vote as you wait for the attention you desire.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:27
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Seriously quit bitching about pandering and get out and vote and get other people your age to actually loving vote. It's like herding god drat cats. The reason there's a gently caress the young vote attitude is because young people are fickle and lazy and just don't vote. This has been true pretty much forever and will pretty much always be.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:28
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Trabisnikof posted:You mean, you personally feel the youth doesn't have such an expectation. The YDA and YRNF have plenty of members. Hmm this is sounding pretty familiar to me
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Mar 5, 2016 19:29
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Also it's pretty funny that some posters here are apparently dumb enough to think that everyone who's like 35+ is perfectly represented by and happy with the people they vote? It really seems they think that magically when you start balding, the politicians zero in on everything you want and give it to you.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:Seriously quit bitching about pandering and get out and vote and get other people your age to actually loving vote. It's like herding god drat cats. The reason there's a gently caress the young vote attitude is because young people are fickle and lazy and just don't vote. This has been true pretty much forever and will pretty much always be. You don't see how this sounds a hell of a lot like a self fulfilling prophecy?
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Mar 5, 2016 19:31
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Rollofthedice posted:I agree. Voting is one of the most basically important functions of a democratic society. A refusal to vote is the opposite of political action; it is political inaction, and inaction is neither productive nor something that engenders interest. Here is an interesting look at abstention voting and it's impact. Be aware that it's focus is on foreign votes and not all situations are the same, but I don't know of a simiar look at domestic patterns. http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2010/2/election%20boycotts%20frankel/02_election_boycotts_frankel.pdf I'm not exactly old (29), but I'm not college age anymore either. In my experience, it's not a matter of being lazy, but rather disinterested. It's hard for a young person to conceptualize how these overarching ideas directly impact them or their future because, to be perfectly honest, the worldview is so narrow. They just don't have the world experience or are only beginning to understand the world. It's hard to connect the two. Boon fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 19:31
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I wish young people voted but they don't; largely in part due to the "my perfect Jesus candidate isn't running so gently caress it" mentality. If you have some secret strategy to get out the youth vote I'm sure the DNC would love to hear it.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:32
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Chomp8645 posted:You don't see how this sounds a hell of a lot like a self fulfilling prophecy? You don't get to complain that nobody represents you when you're ideologically committed to not voting unless A Perfect Candidate materializes.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:33
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I wish young people voted but they don't; largely in part due to the "my perfect Jesus candidate isn't running so gently caress it" mentality. I don't think anyone would believe this.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:34
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I wish young people voted but they don't; largely in part due to the "my perfect Jesus candidate isn't running so gently caress it" mentality. While that's a factor it's vastly over-represented on boards like this. The largest factor is probably just access. I'm actually curious as to the difference between turnout (by age group) in mail-in ballot states like Oregon or Colorado and other systems. From what I remember the highest turnout were actually states that didn't do that, like Minnesota (although that was overall, and not by age group).
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Mar 5, 2016 19:35
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Chomp8645 posted:So you believe that voters should should elect politicians on zero promises or attention, and then afterwards those politicians should look out for them? Not that politicians should advocate a group's interests, and thereby earn their votes? This doesn't seem backwards to you? No it doesn't, who gives a gently caress about paying attention or spending resources on people who can't be assed to even participate. And no there isn't, not when the youth consider "not doing everything exactly as I want" as the same thing as "neglect entirely" see: Bernie fans refusing to vote for Hillary, idiots saying Obama was the same as Bush.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:36
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fishmech posted:You don't get to complain that nobody represents you when you're ideologically committed to not voting unless A Perfect Candidate materializes. Again I don't know why you insist on going straight from "little/no advocacy" straight to "THE PERFECT CANDIDATE". A middle ground would suffice. But no just gently caress the youth I guess they'll never do anything. Have fun with Trump.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:36
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Lessail posted:I don't think anyone would believe this. The DNC would love to be able to bring the youth vote to the polling place, but it isn't a simple proposition.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:36
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You know, youth not voting because politicians don't pander to their issues, and politicians not pandering to youth issues because they don't vote can both be true, right? It's a Catch-22.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:37
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Trabisnikof posted:The DNC would love to be able to bring the youth vote to the polling place, but it isn't a simple proposition. I wasn't talking about the DNC 
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Mar 5, 2016 19:38
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Is there some specific data or evidence that indicates the youth will only vote if their candidate is totally perfect for them in every way? Why are you guys going straight to that claim every time? Because it sounds like something pulled out of one's rear end.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:38
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SoggyBobcat posted:You know, youth not voting because politicians don't pander to their issues, and politicians not pandering to youth issues because they don't vote can both be true, right? It's a Catch-22. That's what I've been trying to get across the whole time. But no obviously is the intransigent nature of youth. They should show their betters due deference and vote repeatedly for candidates who don't care about them and EARN loyalty.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:38
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Boon posted:Here is an interesting look at abstention voting and it's impact. Be aware that it's focus is on foreign votes and not all situations are the same, but I don't know of a simiar look at domestic patterns. This is the other thing, and it's also why I don't have a particular problem with the youth not voting.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:39
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Chomp8645 posted:Again I don't know why you insist on going straight from "little/no advocacy" straight to "THE PERFECT CANDIDATE". A middle ground would suffice. But no just gently caress the youth I guess they'll never do anything. The middle ground you're demanding is the status quo. The youth caucus has the same special status that the women's caucus or the glbt caucus does, at least on the Democratic side. Ignoring the specifics on the candidates this year (since the DNC has no control over it), which specific policies should the DNC pursue in your mind to be less "gently caress the youth" in your mind?
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Mar 5, 2016 19:39
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Every generation thinks it invented not loving showing up at the polls.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:40
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Chomp8645 posted:Again I don't know why you insist on going straight from "little/no advocacy" straight to "THE PERFECT CANDIDATE". A middle ground would suffice. But no just gently caress the youth I guess they'll never do anything. I don't know why you insist on not voting ever, because you refuse to learn anything about the candidates and thus assume they offer nothing for you. gently caress you if you're a youth who refuses to vote, it's that simple. Note that this does not include the millions of youth who do vote, or the millions more who want to vote but can't. I'm just saying gently caress you to people like you who throw tantrums over your own ignorance of politics. We're not going to vote for your meme candidates so that you can maybe possibly be convinced to vote against Trump.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:40
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Mr. Nice! posted:Man I'm sure glad to see another Bernie slapfight. Man it's almost as if all of these originate when Sanders supporters react to constantly being poo poo on and compared to the Tea Party in this thread. The same 3-4 shitheads just keep doing this schtick and when someone reacts, they act smug/indignant and the process starts all over. Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 19:40
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SoggyBobcat posted:You know, youth not voting because politicians don't pander to their issues, and politicians not pandering to youth issues because they don't vote can both be true, right? It's a Catch-22. Right, but you would think that if youth weren't voting then, they also wouldn't vote when they get older. But consistently they do vote more. I guess to put it another way - which issues do youth care about, that other people don't? If there are issues that are keeping people from voting, they must be ones that are limited to young people. For example, college expenses might be a "youth issue". This kind of fails though since youth turnout has been low for long before college because a major cost.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:40
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Chomp8645 posted:Is there some specific data or evidence that indicates the youth will only vote if their candidate is totally perfect for them in every way? Why are you guys going straight to that claim every time? Because it sounds like something pulled out of one's rear end. Because you "wah I don't wanna vote" types keep saying all candidates are ignorning your issues when most of them aren't ignoring at all, they're just not meeting whatever arbitrary standard you have. So that's identical to you only voting for your perfect candidate, whiner. Unzip and Attack posted:Man it's almost as if all of these originate when Sanders supporters react to constantly being poo poo on and compared to the Tea Party in this thread. The same 3-4 shitheads just keep doing this schtick and when someone reacts, they act smug/indignant and the process starts all over. It's interesting how the phrasing you use is "supporters" rather than "voters". You can't even bother to vote in your self-description, heh.\ You do understand what happens to candidates when they only have supporters instead of voters, right? fishmech fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 19:41
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Jarmak posted:This is the other thing, and it's also why I don't have a particular problem with the youth not voting. I think society has as much of an obligation to expand the political worldview and experience of youth voters as youth voters have to themselves. edit: And before this might be snarkily misinterpreted by someone, I find that obligation to be a significant one. Chelb fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 19:42
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Lessail posted:I wasn't talking about the DNC oh? what were you talking about then? 
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Mar 5, 2016 19:43
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fishmech posted:Because you "wah I don't wanna vote" types keep saying all candidates are ignorning your issues when most of them aren't ignoring at all, they're just not meeting whatever arbitrary standard you have. So that's identical to you only voting for your perfect candidate, whiner. I have voted in en every single election since I turned 18. The mid terms too. You are attacking the wrong person. I am a youth who votes, I simply don't blame my fellows who choose not to.
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Mar 5, 2016 19:44
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computer parts posted:Right, but you would think that if youth weren't voting then, they also wouldn't vote when they get older. But consistently they do vote more. Also, college costs often are borne by the family as a whole. I don't know the statistics, but among families who can afford college, I guarantee the cost of college is an issue they care about. Rollofthedice posted:I think society has as much of an obligation to expand the political worldview and experience of youth voters as youth voters have to themselves. Agreed. The question becomes, how much time and resources do you devote to something like this. Expanding someone's world view takes considerable amounts of both. I would argue that this is a major focus of education at every level. Boon fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 19:44
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