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Rhesus Pieces posted:I always interpreted the Q as "questioning" tbh. I've seen Q listed twice to cover both. The real litmus test is if you include a second T for twospirited.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:23
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The reality is that political goals can be achieved through a broad array of tactics, and voting is only one small part of that. How important voting is also depends on the election, the politicians, the office, and the demographic trends of an area. How likely a third party candidate is to win can vary because not every office is decided by first-past-the-post, even in the US, and plenty of local elections can be stormed by third parties. How good/bad the Democratic alternative to a Republican also varies by locale and from race to race. Which candidates move to the general election for presidency this year also hasn't even been decided yet, despite goon confidence in their predictive powers. However nuance is impossible, and everyone is either evil or stupid for not doing the thing I think is right. Only argue through over-generalization and hyperbole. Never cite evidence, but yell at everyone who you disagree with who doesn't. And most importantly, never talk about the primaries in the subforum dedicated to them. Uranium Phoenix fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 23:23
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Chokes McGee posted:Catching up on the thread. Is... Is Cudgel trolling? Am I trolling? Is anyone anymore? All i can say is that I legitimately had a higher opinion of Sanders supporters five pages ago than I did now  Also, fishmech, what did you do to these people? As far as I can tell your posting is informed and considered, if unvarnished in its criticisms. But they literally seem to think you kvetching about how hard youth gotv can be on an internet forum is the equivalent of going out and screaming in 18yo's faces about how worthless they are 
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Mar 5, 2016 23:24
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Donaldus Magnus appears to be on track to lose Kansas and Maine to Ted Cruz, according to Fox. Was this predicted by polling? I feel like I remember him being ahead at least in Maine.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:24
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JiUC posted:Is anyone following today's primary returns? Was Cruz expected to win these or is this a major shift away from trump? They are caucuses, which are always tough to poll and in which Cruz has always had an advantage due to his superior organization. Him winning is not exactly a surprise. Louisiana is a closed primary which might hurt Trump, but it's not a caucus so Trump should be okay. If Trump loses Louisiana, let alone takes a drubbing there from Cruz, it might mean something. These midwestern and southern states were always going to be tricky for Trump, especially the caucuses. Maine is a case where Trump should've had a lot of institutional and demographic advantages, but it's still a caucus. Also it's Maine. All the contests are proportional so even if Cruz swept the table, he's not going to get a huge net gain on Trump in delegates. What Trump should have lined up is another news story to grab the cycle by Monday if the returns look poor on him. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 23:30
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:I love how everyone is ignoring that one guy itt. El Disco posted:Which guy?
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Mar 5, 2016 23:36
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Shifty Pony posted:Oh hey Hillarychat. This is pretty accurate, thank you. Although computer parts et al are still going to argue that we're living in better times than ever before, so good luck with that. 
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Mar 5, 2016 23:38
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Trabisnikof posted:I've seen Q listed twice to cover both. The real litmus test is if you include a second T for twospirited. Two-spirited is 2, noob  LGBTQQA2?!A Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Queer Questioning Asexual Two-spirit Unknown Genderqueer/gently caress Ally - for some reason Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 5, 2016 |
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Mar 5, 2016 23:42
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:This is pretty accurate, thank you. Although computer parts et al are still going to argue that we're living in better times than ever before, so good luck with that. Just because we may be living in better times than ever before doesn't necessarily translate to the impression of a better quality of life for everyone, and it's very possible to have had one's situation improve but to look at someone else whose situation has improved way more and still feel left behind. And "better" comes in a lot of different forms, so things can be getting better in some ways (like access to information, environmental awareness, or availability of nutrition) but worse in others (income equality). So the two conclusions aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:43
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:This is pretty accurate, thank you. Although computer parts et al are still going to argue that we're living in better times than ever before, so good luck with that. We are, its not inherently contradictory. Life is complicated and there's still vast amounts of work to do to make things right. Personally I think the place to start is saying corporations can't be people because that means the government is actively creating people and that should give everyone pause.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:43
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Antti posted:They are caucuses, which are always tough to poll and in which Cruz has always had an advantage due to his superior organization. Him winning is not exactly a surprise. This, and look forward to Trump declaring war on yet another previously-inviolable figure, possibly Jesus or Reagan, or else an endorsement from one of the aforementioned direct from the Pearly Gates.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:48
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fishmech posted:And the point is a lot of others don't want to identify as queer for the aforementioned reasons. Did you even read the post? Queer is a slur just as much as gay can be used as one. This has been a ongoing thing for like 35 loving years or more ever since Queers read this was disseminated and before that. The difference is that its more acceptable to say queer studies than something like human being studies. It's a issue with some people and some people take no offense at this point http://www.queerty.com/ , etc... Queer is a fluid label/ umbrella term / reclaimed word etc.. http://www.lgbt.ucla.edu/documents/LGBTTerminology.pdf Generally, a good rule is don't use terms like dyke and queer unless the person identifies at that. It's similar to dyke.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:48
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:This is pretty accurate, thank you. Although computer parts et al are still going to argue that we're living in better times than ever before, so good luck with that. Beaten by Quorum, but I don't think anyone is questioning an overall improvement in medicine, tech, etc., compared to 40 years ago, only that the improvements haven't been felt equally by everyone, if at all.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:48
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JiUC posted:Is anyone following today's primary returns? Was Cruz expected to win these or is this a major shift away from trump? He was expected to get at least one state, especially after Super Tuesday passed and instead of just winning Texas, he also got Oklahoma and Alaska for a total of 4 states with Iowa.
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Mar 5, 2016 23:52
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The rural americans bit made me roll my eyes, but the Reddit post lost me at "Latin Americans", namely in that there's a hell of a lot more Latin Americans/Hispanics/etc. outside of economic migrants supporting their families back south. Where exactly do these folks even fit into this post? It doesn't seem that they fit anywhere. Lots of people are angry, sure. White America can even be said to be in despair, judging by suicide numbers and drug epidemics. But I don't think this post has nailed it at all. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 6, 2016 |
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Mar 6, 2016 00:02
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Chokes McGee posted:Catching up on the thread. Is... Is Cudgel trolling? Am I trolling? Is anyone anymore? as you here. I feel like I put forward a legitimate concern that weighs significantly in my judgement of who to vote for, and was immediately met with tribalistic vitriol.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:16
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bhsman posted:Beaten by Quorum, but I don't think anyone is questioning an overall improvement in medicine, tech, etc., compared to 40 years ago, only that the improvements haven't been felt equally by everyone, if at all. These improvements, while good on the whole, are effectively meaningless if gated behind a massive wealth gap and income inequality. Advancements in nano technology to attack cancer with laser precision and to minimize the need for chemotherapy is useless to the many who are disserviced by a failed privatized healthcare system and would rather commit suicide than subject their families to life ruining amounts of debt by treating their cancer or other preventable diseases. It is insulting to say to these people that their lives are better now than ever before because of technological advances made at a distance from the depressing reality of their own lives.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:19
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Cugel the Clever posted:I honestly think that you people must live in some sort of alternate reality in which money isn't a corrosive force in politics and the only reason people don't vote for your preferred candidate is out of spite. Believe me, I'm feeling just as To be trite, currently, Capitalism is Too Big To Fail. We have to construct a new way for society to function that manages capitalism like an ox plowing a field for humanities benefit. If we take the tact of accellerating the flaws of Capitalism so it finally becomes palletable for the general masses to dismiss it, we lose what value capitalism can contribute to society and probably cause a whole lot of human misery as we stand before the crater of society asking rhetorically "What about your capitalism now hmm? "
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Mar 6, 2016 00:21
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RuanGacho posted:We are, its not inherently contradictory. Life is complicated and there's still vast amounts of work to do to make things right. I don't know about you, but I am on board with Obama's plan to produce an army of
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Mar 6, 2016 00:24
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Cugel the Clever posted:I honestly think that you people must live in some sort of alternate reality in which money isn't a corrosive force in politics and the only reason people don't vote for your preferred candidate is out of spite. Believe me, I'm feeling just as You didn't put forward legit concerns, you whined that your preferred candidate couldn't even win the party they're in.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:25
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Glenn beck pulled his usual trick of waving something expensive he bought at auction around and reading the IMDB summary of "willie wonka" to make a point that the constitution is like the golden ticket he bought when he was messed up on post-em
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Mar 6, 2016 00:25
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I don't know about you, but I am on board with Obama's plan to produce an army of You arrive at the DMV: Gasp! It's Obama behind the counter! You go to the pound to adopt a pet: Obama is there to tell you the puppy urinates when excited! You go to vote for your next congressional ballot: OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA
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Mar 6, 2016 00:26
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:There are plenty of people (myself included) who do not like being called queer due to the negative associations. It's kinda like how Jew can be bad or okay. Am I a Jew? Technically. Can you call me a Jew? That depends on how you say it. HookedOnChthonics posted:All i can say is that I legitimately had a higher opinion of Sanders supporters five pages ago than I did now We're not all bad. In fact, most of us are a-okay. This is actually the first time I've seen ones be so ... petulant. To be fair, this is the first monthly USPOL thread I've followed though. E: before someone jumps all over me for "calling all Bernie supporters/millenials petulant"... please don't.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:27
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Cugel the Clever posted:I honestly think that you people must live in some sort of alternate reality in which money isn't a corrosive force in politics and the only reason people don't vote for your preferred candidate is out of spite. Believe me, I'm feeling just as In fairness, I agreed with your points about how being bitter about the youth vote doesn't seem like a winning strategy, but you seemed to turn heel at the last moment with the "I'm still not voting for Hillary" bit. Even if that's unfairly treating your objective point with your subjective opinion, it just kind feeds into people's bias confirmation that you had been fighting. Even you should see that.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:32
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:It's kinda like how Jew can be bad or okay. Am I a Jew? Technically. Can you call me a Jew? That depends on how you say it. This is a pretty good way of looking at it.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:37
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:This is a pretty good way of looking at it. OH I forgot to say - your avatar is super cute, btw.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:47
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The rural americans bit made me roll my eyes, but the Reddit post lost me at "Latin Americans", namely in that there's a hell of a lot more Latin Americans/Hispanics/etc. outside of economic migrants supporting their families back south. Where exactly do these folks even fit into this post? It doesn't seem that they fit anywhere. Yeah the "Latin Americans" part was the one that I had the most issue with as well. Also there's the inherent problem that sweeping generalizations are going to be generally wrong. What describes one city, county, or state won't really mesh with the experiences of others. For example talk of the relatively recent decline in the US textile industry would be a whole lot more pertinent to people in the Southeast.
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Mar 6, 2016 00:57
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RuanGacho posted:Personally I think the place to start is saying corporations can't be people because that means the government is actively creating people and that should give everyone pause. That's a weird point I never heard anybody make before. I like it. Have you ever tried that take on conservatives you know in real life? Rodenthar Drothman posted:It's kinda like how Jew can be bad or okay. Am I a Jew? Technically. Can you call me a Jew? That depends on how you say it. On this note, gosh I'd sure like it if you guys quit saying "Blacks" and "the Blacks" like baby boomers stage-whispering in mixed company. I know it's just something people pick up from soaking up the terse terminology of political polls, but try "black people" on for size. It's not much extra typing, and it's a lot less dehumanizing.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:06
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RuanGacho posted:We are, its not inherently contradictory. Life is complicated and there's still vast amounts of work to do to make things right. Yep, exactly. Your Dunkle Sans posted:These improvements, while good on the whole, are effectively meaningless if gated behind a massive wealth gap and income inequality. Advancements in nano technology to attack cancer with laser precision and to minimize the need for chemotherapy is useless to the many who are disserviced by a failed privatized healthcare system and would rather commit suicide than subject their families to life ruining amounts of debt by treating their cancer or other preventable diseases. Which metrics do you wish to use? It sounds like distribution of income is one of them.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:10
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bhsman posted:In fairness, I agreed with your points about how being bitter about the youth vote doesn't seem like a winning strategy, but you seemed to turn heel at the last moment with the "I'm still not voting for Hillary" bit. Even if that's unfairly treating your objective point with your subjective opinion, it just kind feeds into people's bias confirmation that you had been fighting. Even you should see that. Yeah, this is the Internet and it brings out the worst in people, but I've encountered the very same reaction from Clinton supporters in person. I get that people don't want to spend valuable time and effort to bring me on board, but it's hard not to be taken aback by people who, upon seeing a Bernie button, accuse you of wanting a Republican to win. Maybe Fishmech & Co. are leaving unsaid that their disdain for the youth vote and the progressive vote doesn't enter their real world conversations with these groups, but my experience says otherwise. When my local diehard socialists initially ragged on Bernie for getting on the Democratic ticket, sure, I rolled my eyes and thought them overly dedicated to their own label. But then I put myself out there, talked through the sore points with them, and brought out a good gaggle of them to vote for Bernie in the caucuses.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:25
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:You skipped the part where you said that if your Perfect Jesus Candidate didn't win you're taking your ball and going home. In a thread full of threadshitting, you are the champion of poo poo. Anecdotal I know, but of the two dozen or so Bernie supporters I know personally, none have indicated that they won't vote for Clinton. I think many of you are seriously overestimating the number of Sanders supporters that will A. vote in the primary and B. not vote for Clinton in the general. I mean we have one or two in this thread who have indicated that mentality (out of a hundred or so posters), and this is a very left-leaning forum. Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Mar 6, 2016 |
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Mar 6, 2016 01:26
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That's a weird point I never heard anybody make before. I like it. Have you ever tried that take on conservatives you know in real life? I haven't tried it because I'm basically down to my one libertarian friend whom I've known for 25 years and he's really a libertarian in name only and more of a weird social liberal who is really sure the EPA is impeding business. Still he helps my intellectual rigor. I don't really bother with people who's political self identification begins with "I believe in the Constitution!" which is really the only other kind I encounter online or offline. But yes, quiz people if they really want the government creating people, the implications of defeating that line of thought will help keep political and economic rights in the hands of individuals instead of entities of dubious mortality.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:28
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computer parts posted:Yep, exactly. Well, cost and access to healthcare, cost of higher education, income inequality, for-profit criminal justice systems, climate change, money in politics, and voter ID suppression are good for starters.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:31
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I called my mom yesterday to wish her a happy birthday. She said "Thanks but if trump is elected this is the end for our democracy." This election
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Mar 6, 2016 01:48
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Well, cost and access to healthcare, cost of higher education, income inequality, for-profit criminal justice systems, climate change, money in politics, and voter ID suppression are good for starters. Most of those aren't really controversial, I'll admit. Let's look at cost and access to healthcare though - at what point would you say both cost and access to healthcare was more friendly to the average American? Unions did support adding health care benefits as part of their collective bargaining, but union membership peaked at about 1/3 of waged & salaried workers:  In fact, the rates of uninsured Americans I'm finding are shockingly high, especially for people who weren't actively working (i.e., pre Medicare et all). On a side note, the history of Health care reform in the 20th Century is detailed here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447696/ . It's a very interesting read, including many parallels to the present day.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:50
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Antti posted:They are caucuses, which are always tough to poll and in which Cruz has always had an advantage due to his superior organization. Him winning is not exactly a surprise. I am gonna  so hard if the Repub elite have to kiss up to Cruz just to avoid Trump.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:53
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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On Terra Firma posted:I called my mom yesterday to wish her a happy birthday. She said "Thanks but if trump is elected this is the end for our democracy." This election If it helps any, my mom is super worried and convinced that Trump will win "since we voted for [W.] Bush twice, TWICE!" while my dad is convinced Hillary will win the general election and that Trump doesn't have a chance.
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Mar 6, 2016 01:56
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Cugel the Clever posted:Thanks for the reasonable response—I genuinely fail to wrap my head around the ire my comments seem to have stirred up. It's not "I'm still not voting for Hillary", so much as "I've never intended to vote for Hillary". I just don't identify as a Democrat and vote based on both the candidate's platform and my perception of their genuine desire to follow through on it. I do vote the Democratic ticket, by and large, but am put at a loss when my concerns regarding this specific candidate are met with anger rather than effort to persuade. To be fair, your position as stated is that Hillary is some sort of inscrutable pod person dispatched by big banks to destroy the country. Anyone w/ a more grounded perspective probably will take issue with that. E: like, if your litmus test for candidates is that they must immediately transcend and discard the established political order that's fine but you should accept that it's a really extreme position HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Mar 6, 2016 |
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Mar 6, 2016 01:58
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DeusExMachinima posted:I am gonna Depicted: Cruz's literal face and reaction to this thought: 
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Mar 6, 2016 01:59
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Unzip and Attack posted:In a thread full of threadshitting, you are the champion of poo poo. He was directly quoting and speaking to someone who said exactly that you dumb gently caress. Try reading the loving thread.
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