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Hiro Protagonist posted:Goon projects are generally a lot more trustworthy. Deck of Legends, Assault Butts and of course Nightfall were goon projects. They all failed to varying degrees.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:49
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Those failed for pretty normal KS reasons, IIRC, to be fair: product was incomplete before project launch, lack of experience in business, and fraud.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:53
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Covok posted:Those failed for pretty normal KS reasons, IIRC, to be fair: product was incomplete before project launch, lack of experience in business, and fraud.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:55
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Covok posted:Those failed for pretty normal KS reasons, IIRC, to be fair: product was incomplete before project launch, lack of experience in business, and fraud. So basically every reason a Kickstarter can fail short of "legitimately unexpected act of god."
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Mar 7, 2016 20:57
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GrandpaPants posted:Deck of Legends, Assault Butts and of course Nightfall were goon projects. They all failed to varying degrees. High-level Inverse World backers (i.e. anyone getting something personalized) never got rewards, either. Gnome offered physical copies to anyone still waiting, but I stopped caring way before he offered, so I never did it.
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Mar 7, 2016 20:58
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Personally, this is why I feel stretch goals are more trouble than they're worth.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:00
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Covok posted:Personally, this is why I feel stretch goals are more trouble than they're worth. Yeah, if you don't have them budgeted up front and are adding them on the fly you're boned. Having 'stuff we can add if we get X money and will add Y time' is fine, as long as you've done the legwork up front.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:03
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The only KS project I've backed that's close to a year behind schedule is a goon one. It's also one where the guy makes sure to talk about having health problems in every update.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:11
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Nightfall is actually being resurrected via Savage Mojo and one of the original writers.Echophonic posted:High-level Inverse World backers (i.e. anyone getting something personalized) never got rewards, either. Gnome offered physical copies to anyone still waiting, but I stopped caring way before he offered, so I never did it. Mikan gave me my first (and only) paid industry writing job for IW, too. 
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Mar 7, 2016 21:34
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Of the KS stuff I've backed that has just flaked out, several are "goon projects". Deck of Legends was already mentioned. Pirate World (a pirate-themed Dungeon World hack) is both a goon-written project and way overdue. It looks like even a pdf will not be released at this point. It's fine to say, "I enjoy helping out goon projects" but the success rate isn't actually any better than KS as a whole, I think.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:59
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I mean the only reason 'goon projects' are a thing people talk about as if they're something special is because...well we're fuckin goons so obviously we do like helping our fellow idiot shitposters make money following their shitposter dreams. There's nothing inherent about them that makes them more likely to deliver just because we 'know' the people doing it.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:17
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Xelkelvos posted:Her and Zheng He are two of China's most notable mariners so adding them anachronistically would be necessary. Yeah, I think I wasn't clear in what I mean is that we'll get Cheng Shih via John Wick, a tragic wicked (but hot) dragon lady. You go to pledge with the Wick you have, not the Wick you might want. Evil Mastermind posted:Mikan gave me my first (and only) paid industry writing job for IW, too. Last Stand: Reinforcements is dead based on all available evidence, too. On the other hand, Croatian Alzheimers has been really solid with this Savage Worlds settings, but he's also one of the few goons that was a published RPG company man and freelancer before moving on KS.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:34
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I mean the only reason 'goon projects' are a thing people talk about as if they're something special is because...well we're fuckin goons so obviously we do like helping our fellow idiot shitposters make money following their shitposter dreams. There's nothing inherent about them that makes them more likely to deliver just because we 'know' the people doing it. Garbage Day (goon-related at least?) - Fulfilling on time, by all appearances Thin Blue Line - Fulfilled amazingly quickly Strike! - Delayed only like 4 months? That's solid in KS terms, and it's because he was taking feedback. Spirit of '77 - Fulfilled on time! Breakfast Cult - At this point, almost a year late. Not fulfilled. 100 Deluxe Dungeons - Print coupons were delayed, but overall fulfilled satisfactorily. I think the delay was expected after the stretch goals. Deck of Legends - Choked, died, no refunds, no rewards Inverse World - I have heard about problems with fulfillment. I personally got the PDF I had backed for, but it was ~9 months late. I don't think all stretch goals were done (like a final Accelerated version), but I'm not positive. So basically, it's about on par with the rest of my Kickstarter experience, or maybe a bit slower. As I mentioned, Deck of Legends was the only KS I've backed so far that actually died on the vine.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:37
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Oh, it must be time for me to remember that I backed Up Front! again. gently caress that guy.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:58
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moths posted:Oh, it must be time for me to remember that I backed Up Front! again. I backed Up Front! for too much money because I really really wanted it 
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Mar 7, 2016 23:09
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Lemon-Lime posted:That's not going to stop Wick from throwing them in. It depends on how he modifies the geographies and which dynasty he or whomever he chooses to write the setting picks. It's likely that a number of dynasties and eras will have facets smooshed together to try and maximize the number of figures they can put in. Fwiw, the time period that the game is supposed to take place (~1588 iirc) is during the Japanese invasion of Korea. On the Japanese side, is the Sengoku era, Japan's own Warring States era. On the Chinese side is the Ming Dynasty which one one of the most prosperous and marked with a significant rise in its position through trade including the treasure voyages of Zheng He. The Mongols are basically out of power at this point and fwiw, in a game about piracy and sailing, mounted raiders aren't 100% in theme. There'd likely be a little bit of Edo and Qing Dynasty stuff mixed in, but this period already has enough potential setting seeds. I have no idea about how India would play out as well as SE Asia and the rest of the East Indies since those histories are a bit out of my sphere of interest.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:09
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Keep in mind, both 1E and 2E feature Viking raiders.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:27
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Oh sweet, Dire, I've been in for a couple days now and it's good to know it's someone on SA. Goon projects are generally a lot more trustworthy. That said, I was starting to consider canceling my pledge when I realized there is almost nothing about the system and how it works. Can you fill us in on that a bit? The system has eight primary characteristics, 3 physical (strength, dexterity, endurance), 3 mental (composure, intelligence and awareness) and 2 social (presence and charisma). Movement speed and resistances etc. are derived from these. Characteristics have associated blocks of skills that function as the primary way of interacting with things within the game. Skills can't be raised higher than one point above their associated characteristic. For a baseline character, characteristics and skills are both ranked from 1 to 5, though equipment, augments, powers and other bonuses may allow this range to be exceeded. Skills start at 0. By default, you get 10 points to allocate to your stats, and 48 across your skills. Both characteristics and skills cost 1 point to upgrade, except for for the final rank that requires 2. We also have traits that function basically sort of like Merits from WoD or d20 Feats. You gain one each time a skill is raised to 4, and an upgraded version when the skill hits 5. As mentioned already, the basic skill check is a 2d10 roll + characteristic + skill ratings. This is rolled vs the Target Result defined by the GM. The target for an average difficulty task is 14, with any circumstance which would increase or decrease its difficulty adding or subtracting 2 from the target. We don't have health points. Damage that exceeds the threshold of your armour and toughness becomes injuries, injuries lower your toughness and apply a penalty to skill checks. You die if you accumulate a number of injuries equal to your maximum toughness. The system was designed to make combat fast and deadly, without making characters overly vulnerable to an initial attack, giving them a chance to get into cover, escape or heal up. Emissaries also have access to additional powers for negating damage or healing injuries. What additional powers? Emissaries, having merged with the alien artifact known as Simulcra, are capable of superhuman feats. These are tied to Ideals. By default, all characters start out with the Ideal of Duty that compels them to serve the Third Golden Empire. Obeying your Ideal grants you Sympathy points that you can spend (like Fate Points) to trigger your abilities. If you fail to honour your Ideal, you will instead amass Apathy that functions just like Sympathy points, but you will need to roll for Corruption each time you spend it. If you gain more Apathy than Sympathy, your Simulcra will go wild and grow corrupted. When this happens, the Emissary turns into what's basically a mutated space monster known as a Fallen Emissary and is removed from the game. Some Ideals like Pacifism are harder to sustain, while something like Deterrence forces a players hand. All Emissaries have access (through Duty) to things like rerolls, injury recovery and self-buffs. You can also negate all damage from a single source, even after the damage has been rolled. Which is just as powerful as it sounds like. To make up for the restrictions on additional Ideals, the abilities you gain are exceptionally powerful. The highest tiers of Deterrence give you access to things like Perfect speed Make four actions each turn instead of two for 1d6 minutes. Extend the ability for 1d6 minutes each time you kill an opponent. Don't mistake Pacifism for something that's weak either. a bit from the tutorial adventure posted:As Maximillion is moving back into the cargo hold, So yeah. We have tons of fluffy rules descriptions and helpers since we've kind of made the rulebook assuming that people don't really know how to play rpgs. Sorry for not having a more detailed post about the rules on the Kickstarter. This is sort of a rough explanation since it's like the middle of the night here. We're writing a proper big update about them since other people have been asking about things so hopefully that'll help people decide. I've backed my fair share of things and some of them have turned out pretty bad so I understand the reticience. Honestly, if someone doesn't feel like backing that's ok. No hard feelings.  Backing something just because a goon is involved is sort of silly. We'll release the game eventually on DriveThru even if the Kickstarter doesn't pan out since we've spent a few years writing way too much fluff for it to just be discarded. It'll just be pretty text-heavy.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:36
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Xelkelvos posted:It depends on how he modifies the geographies and which dynasty he or whomever he chooses to write the setting picks. John Wick is not renowned for creating accurately-researched fantasy settings. We might actually get a China split into three different kingdoms so he can showcase different dynasties, though.
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Mar 7, 2016 23:57
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dwarf74 posted:Inverse World - I have heard about problems with fulfillment. I personally got the PDF I had backed for, but it was ~9 months late. I don't think all stretch goals were done (like a final Accelerated version), but I'm not positive. I'm pretty sure I have a PoD Inverse World Accelerated on my shelf (not at home to check). I'm not sure if there are any other associated bits and bobs that might make it count as unfulfilled though.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:07
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Lemon-Lime posted:John Wick is not renowned for creating accurately-researched fantasy settings. Isn't he getting writers for some of the other setting books like the African one and the New World ones?
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Mar 8, 2016 00:42
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Xelkelvos posted:Isn't he getting writers for some of the other setting books like the African one and the New World ones? I dont know about the New World but yes for the Africa one.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:48
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I know this is pages old and the discussion has moved on, but I have to bring this up again for two reasons. One, the guy is asking for $25k to make a glorified e-book. He even says this himself. quote:The app itself will essentially be a dynamic E-book. It will just be a text with illustration, and will have a focus on ease of use and maneuverability between the separate rules. I am a tech coordinator at the local high school and I can tell you with certainty that there are students in my class that could and would do what he is asking in their free time for fun. In fact, one of them DOES do this with D&D. He could take the time to learn to do this by himself and finish the project in just a few months at only the cost of personal time. Two, I just have to quote this because it makes me laugh. quote:Are you ready for the next big Table top RPG? We are officially launching the kickstarter for Mythical Might so go grab your D20′s and meet us there for more information on the future of Table top RPG’s Emphasis mine. Yes, I'm sure the "next big Table top RPG" is a D20 campaign setting. Edit: I wish he was instead just trying to sell his campaign setting so I can understand why the gently caress a human warrior is telling jokes to a khajit and a scarecrow and an elven wizard. opulent fountain fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 8, 2016 00:49
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Thanks man! Definitely still going to pledge at the core then. I do have concerns about the injury system if getting a flesh wound and getting run through is the same, but I'm gonna assume that was a truncated rules problem. Also, in response to all the other posts, I suppose I was unclear. I felt more comfortable knowing I could contact him on here, and that he was working on promoting a almost finished product. I also meant the trustworthiness of goons to say that, generally, goons don't come here to promote stuff if it's a scam, so I feel more comfortable with backing a project from someone I know nothing about if I know they're a goon posting in this thread. Yeah, they can still fulfill super late, but at least they aren't just going to run with my money.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:56
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Hiro Protagonist posted:at least they aren't just going to run with my money. No, see, this has literally happened. More than once.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:59
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JesterOfAmerica posted:I dont know about the New World but yes for the Africa one. So if he's getting a writer for the Africa book, I'd assume he'd pick up a writer for Asia and parts of the New World at least.
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Mar 8, 2016 00:59
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Leperflesh posted:No, see, this has literally happened. More than once.
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Mar 8, 2016 01:48
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So far my failed KS's are like 3 out of over 60 so I'm good I think
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Mar 8, 2016 03:32
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Covok posted:AMP: Year Three is up on kickstarter. AMP is a superhero setting that treats supers as more of scifi thing than a caped crusader affair. The game and setting is pretty cool and this new book expands on the ability of Saps, ordinary people, to be on equal footing to AMPs, adds a corruption mechanic in for AMPs, and establishes how the conflict between Saps and AMPs turns to open war. So I checked this out and it just seems, well, super 90's. Super 90's White Wolf really, with a meta-plot, and a huge amount of terminology, fiddly powers, characters built with multiple kinds of build points etc. Does this play a lot smoother in person then it reads?
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Mar 8, 2016 04:57
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That Old Tree posted:I'm pretty sure I have a PoD Inverse World Accelerated on my shelf (not at home to check). I'm not sure if there are any other associated bits and bobs that might make it count as unfulfilled though. I have one, it should be done. I don't know what happened to the high-level rewards but leaving the industry because fans of a guy who gets mad at insufficiently submissive women keep sending you threats is a better reason for not finishing than most, so 
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Mar 8, 2016 05:34
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Speaking specifically about Last Stand: Reinforcements, I don't have any problem with someone walking away from a project/industry if that's what they need to do. It's the "and taking the money with them" that I take issue with.
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Mar 8, 2016 06:24
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Lemon-Lime posted:That's not going to stop Wick from throwing them in. I am all about this. Because outside of sinophiles and asians, who would even go that in-depth on a supplement?
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Mar 8, 2016 08:10
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GrandpaPants posted:Deck of Legends, Assault Butts and of course Nightfall were goon projects. They all failed to varying degrees.
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Mar 8, 2016 10:50
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NGDBSS posted:Flying Assault Butts was a goon project? I remember hearing about it before (and the eventual collapse of the endeavor), but not anything notable about the creator. Assault Butts was found by goons and adopted, but I don't think it originated here. It's been a long rear end time though.
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Mar 8, 2016 11:52
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neaden posted:So I checked this out and it just seems, well, super 90's. Super 90's White Wolf really, with a meta-plot, and a huge amount of terminology, fiddly powers, characters built with multiple kinds of build points etc. Does this play a lot smoother in person then it reads? I've not played it, but I backed AMP Year One based on what it promised (a system which incorporates player loyalties into the mechanics, something which gives a "dark, modern feel") and was seriously disappointed. There was nothing innovative or interesting in there at all. (So you know where I'm coming from, my gold standard for superhero RPGs is Marvel Heroic Roleplaying.)
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Mar 8, 2016 13:11
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Flying Assault Butts guy bought an account after he started the project IIRC.
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Mar 8, 2016 15:22
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Thanks man! Definitely still going to pledge at the core then. I do have concerns about the injury system if getting a flesh wound and getting run through is the same, but I'm gonna assume that was a truncated rules problem. Yeah it's really truncated and a bit messy since I didn't want to write a huge wall of text. Thanks for the support though. For the sake of simplicity and to keep the game flowing, we don't go into specific hit locations or body parts. The difference between something like a fleshwound and getting shot is that something like a fleshwound would be counted as a Temporary injury, so it'll heal quickly by itself and the penalties suffered from it will be less than from a Permanent injury. You also can't die from Temporary injuries, although they will still cause penalties and be able to knock you out etc. A gunshot, if it's a good shot and you're not wearing armour, will inflict the equivalent of multiple Permanent injuries. Closer to death, more penalties that'll be harder to get rid of. Really horrible injuries are represented in terms of game mechanics as multiple injuries. If your Toughness (a derived stat; it's double your Endurance) is 6, and you take 10 damage from a gunshot, that's four permanent injuries and you're in deep poo poo since you only need two more to die. The only way to get rid of Permanent injuries is to treat them somehow. That's why armour, cover and defensive powers are important. Even fairly light armour goes a long way to protect a character. Hope that clears things up a bit.
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Mar 8, 2016 18:50
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If you can treat permanent injuries, doesn't that mean they're temporary?
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Mar 8, 2016 19:13
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It's just a way to clarify whether an injury will heal itself or whether it requires attention. Having actually permanent injuries that can never go away isn't fun. The term is sort of a legacy from the early days of the system's design when we were using it for horror one-shots where a permanent injury would really kind of be functionally permanent since you wouldn't have time to actually heal the injury in the space of the game. This isn't a problem in a game where you're superpowered heroes on galactic adventures. Honestly you're the first person to mention it. We might change around some of the terms if people find it difficult to understand.
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Mar 8, 2016 20:51
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Persistent Injury keeps the distinction you were going for while being less misleading
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Mar 8, 2016 20:53
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