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CommieGIR posted:Too bad they are not even his buildings. Which is even better since selling your name has no overhead.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:50
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More capable is certainly one way to describe Fred Trump
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Mar 10, 2016 19:50
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as halfway crooks posted:lol *flies away in private 747* Here's an article that says, paraphrased, that had Trump dumped all that money his Dad gave him into a mutual fund he'd be a gently caress-ton richer than he is now. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-probably-better-investing-donald-233020366.html Had he sat at home and played with his yooooge dick the last 30-odd years he'd be making more money. He's a lovely businessman.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:50
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Jesus christ. It's coming from inside the thread. I mean... That's not wrong though. Trump is not a failure, at least in politics. He's winning.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:50
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Pointing out that he's not actually a good businessman is a worthwhile point to make because he's arguing that his business expertise qualifies him to be president.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:51
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stinkles1112 posted:I mean... That's not wrong though. Trump is not a failure, at least in politics. He's winning. He's found a local maximum.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:51
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You don't praise the kid on a bike with training wheels for not falling over.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:52
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stinkles1112 posted:I mean... That's not wrong though. Trump is not a failure, at least in politics. He's winning. But even then! He's not winning because he's good at it, he's winning because the GOP spent 6 years stirring up the racist minority of the party into the Tea Party and now can't control it. Trump is just the peak of a wave they created. Empress Theonora posted:Pointing out that he's not actually a good businessman is a worthwhile point to make because he's arguing that his business expertise qualifies him to be president. THIS! He goes on and on about how savvy a businessman he is when most Fortune 500s won't even let him in the door because he's a money sink.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:53
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An Angry Bug posted:You don't praise the kid on a bike with training wheels for not falling over. Valid analogy except that Trump basically did fall over by not investing well over the long run. At the very least he hasn't fallen over but he also hasn't managed to figure out how the bike works but still wants to be the President of a cycling club.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:54
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happyhippy posted:That was no vacation vacation. I am willing to entertain the idea (suggested once or twice by Mitt) that Mitt, being young and idealistic at the time, would have preferred to mission in places with more tractable / impoverished heathens and his dad went "nope, my son's going to the safest, most luxurious place I can feasibly send him, with the bonus that he gets to network with other people who are well-connected enough to get sent to France. No son of mine is going to do missionary work in whatever the Congo is named this week".
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Mar 10, 2016 19:56
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CommieGIR posted:But even then! He's not winning because he's good at it, he's winning because the GOP spent 6 years stirring up the racist minority of the party into the Tea Party and now can't control it. Trump is just the peak of a wave they created. Yeah this is true, but the point I think is that, as Boon said, that's a value judgment and people define "success" differently so that's probably not going to prove to be the effective method of tearing down Trump. You can rationalize anybody's success at a thing as "well that's only because XYZ historical flukes" \/\/\/ yeah, this. Even if we concede for the sake of argument that he's "successful", there's a dozen other reasons why he shouldn't be anywhere near elected office that aren't ambiguous. sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 19:56
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at the end of the day (for me anyway) playing capitalism "successfully" doesn't make you interesting, admirable, or presidential he is widely renowned, separate from but related to how much money he has, but it's largely infamy at this point. huge unfavorables nationwide, hated across much of the rest of the world truly, a short-fingered vulgarian who should never be heard from again
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Mar 10, 2016 19:56
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Unzip and Attack posted:Valid analogy except that Trump basically did fall over by not investing well over the long run. At the very least he hasn't fallen over but he also hasn't managed to figure out how the bike works but still wants to be the President of a cycling club. The other problem is that its all guesses based on what Trump has claimed at various points in time. If you continue further back than that $500mil you get $1mil to $500 mil in a decade which is better than the market and following the article to today would mean turning $1mil into $10billion over the past 40 years. All of the numbers are probably bullshit which only means that we actually have no idea how good or bad he is at accumulating personal wealth in the real estate business. He's pretty good at marketing at least!
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Mar 10, 2016 19:57
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There's this thing our minds do, and I think progressives are especially susceptible to this because we want to believe there's good in this world, this thing where when we hear something often enough, no matter how crazy it is, we start to believe it has to be at least a little true. Trump lies. He is a liar. The things he says about himself and the things people say in favor of him are outright lies. They are wholly untrue. Just because you hear them so often and with so much conviction doesn't mean they have a single grain of truth in them. He is a con artist and his business is, has always been, will always be telling lies. Stop falling for it.
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Mar 10, 2016 19:58
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Hollismason posted:People saying Trump's a lovely business man are loving part of the problem. Despite what people say he has made a shitload of money which to me indicates some sort of success. A significant part of his stated net worth is from his "brand" that he has set the value of himself.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:00
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https://twitter.com/brianmrosenthal/status/708004062529097728 Obama is extremely Reaganesque.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:01
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We are not even actually sure of his current actual value, because he: 1. Won't tell us and 2. Is currently being sued in Federal court multiple times over for fraud.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:02
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/brianmrosenthal/status/708004062529097728 Really neat how high up there Bill is but then again nothing really happened 99/00. And iirc under his watch the entire planet had just narrowly avoided being destroyed by Y2K so it makes sense people would be stoked about him.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:02
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Gravel Gravy posted:Really neat how high up there Bill is but then again nothing really happened 99/00. And iirc under his watch the entire planet had just narrowly avoided being destroyed by Y2K so it makes sense people would be stoked about him. You mean the guy that got impeached over lying about sexual dalliances?
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Mar 10, 2016 20:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's this thing our minds do, and I think progressives are especially susceptible to this because we want to believe there's good in this world, this thing where when we hear something often enough, no matter how crazy it is, we start to believe it has to be at least a little true. The dog pile in here is interesting. No one in here, so far as I know, is falling for it. However, pointing out that, that billionaire on stage to a bunch of people who have no concept of what a billion dollars is because they're underwater on their homes, or buried in credit card debt, or generally not doing well financially in life isn't exactly a convincing strategy. Attacking him as a failure is fruitless in the face of that, because facts don't matter. Pointing out his scams, on the other hand, is damaging and also not at all the same.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:04
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CommieGIR posted:We are not even actually sure of his current actual value, because he: The trick with number 2 is that it's a civil case against a Trump company and not him personally.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:06
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zoux posted:You mean the guy that got impeached over lying about sexual dalliances? Yeah but how much of the country really gave a poo poo besides Newt Gingrich? Although looking back on it now it is funny that I got to learn what a blowjob was in a 5th grade class assignment.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:06
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Boon posted:The dog pile in here is interesting. If facts don't matter, maybe you should stop calling him a success then?  We dog piled you for trying to defend his success. hobbesmaster posted:The trick with number 2 is that it's a civil case against a Trump company and not him personally. So? He's the company head, and considering what happened to Phoenix University, he'd be smart to hide his actual liquid asset holdings from public view.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:06
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Gravel Gravy posted:Really neat how high up there Bill is but then again nothing really happened 99/00. And iirc under his watch the entire planet had just narrowly avoided being destroyed by Y2K so it makes sense people would be stoked about him.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:08
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Boon posted:Attacking him as a failure is fruitless in the face of that, because facts don't matter. Pointing out his scams, on the other hand, is damaging and also not at all the same. There's a difference between talking about strategy and actually claiming that Donald Trump has achieved any kind of noteworthy success in his life. The only way to do that is to talk about his money, and wealth in general is a terrible measure of success because of how easy it is to run up the score once you have some.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:09
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Do you think that would work, or is it too late? Are there even enough old-style establishment republicans left to staff up an undertaking like that? Jesus this thread's moving fast. Yeah, I think if they focus a bunch of cash on low-publicity elections they can shut Tea partiers out of a lot of races. Money goes a lot further when its not butting up into the diminishing returns of constant media focus.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:09
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Boon posted:The dog pile in here is interesting. You are falling for it. You're the one. It's you. We have no proof he is a billionaire. He is lying about how much money he has. How many more times do you need this explained to you. Guess what dude, Pom juice doesn't cure cancer either. Axe won't make that girl gently caress you. Quit falling for marketing you stupid gently caress. I don't know how old you are but it's way too old for "advertising is lies" to be news to you.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:10
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:There's this thing our minds do, and I think progressives are especially susceptible to this because we want to believe there's good in this world, this thing where when we hear something often enough, no matter how crazy it is, we start to believe it has to be at least a little true. The most impressive ability of Trump is his hypnotism over people to keep repeating the "He's a successful businessman!" line and are simply unable to say otherwise. It's like people have internalized this mental block somehow.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:10
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fool_of_sound posted:Jesus this thread's moving fast. Yeah, I think if they focus a bunch of cash on low-publicity elections they can shut Tea partiers out of a lot of races. Money goes a lot further when its not butting up into the diminishing returns of constant media focus. But who would they run? We've talked a lot about how the Silent Majority isn't a thing, and that's where all the presumed moderate/establishment Republicans are.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:12
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If you think about it, if Trump's goal in life was "become a successful businessman" then he has been a pretty colossal failure. On the other hand, if his goal was "convince people I'm a successful businessman" then he's done a really good job. Edit: kinda beaten by Dunkle
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Mar 10, 2016 20:13
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If Trump isn't successful, why is he winning the republican nomination race? 
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Mar 10, 2016 20:13
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Khisanth Magus posted:A significant part of his stated net worth is from his "brand" that he has set the value of himself. And he is someone who makes his money through good branding - not a transferable skill for governing a country. The Kardashians are branding experts too. It hardly makes them qualified to be president.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:14
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stinkles1112 posted:If you think about it, if Trump's goal in life was "become a successful businessman" then he has been a pretty colossal failure. The latter is almost as valuable as the former in practical terms. It's successful marketing that gets people to buy his product (that product being him as a seemingly credible presidential candidate).
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Mar 10, 2016 20:14
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Success is not how much money you have in your bank account, but how much raw milk you have in your yooge french-door refrigerator.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:14
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stinkles1112 posted:If you think about it, if Trump's goal in life was "become a successful businessman" then he has been a pretty colossal failure. Which is why he's a successful PR person. If only for himself.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:15
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TyrantWD posted:And he is someone who makes his money through good branding - not a transferable skill for governing a country. He'd make a great Travel and Tourism guy for the US, though!
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Mar 10, 2016 20:15
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:The most impressive ability of Trump is his hypnotism over people to keep repeating the "He's a successful businessman!" line and are simply unable to say otherwise. It's like people have internalized this mental block somehow. It works for everything. That's why the Just Asking Questions schtick around any social reform issue is so toxic and so effective. It doesn't matter if your opponent shoots you down, you got to say "thug" over and over and that's what will rattle around in everyone's ears.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:16
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TyrantWD posted:And he is someone who makes his money through good branding - not a transferable skill for governing a country. Why do the GOP candidates care about trifling things like 'governing the country'? The Tea Party clearly doesn't care or want that, only to obstruct and tear down things as much as possible. Remember: George W. Bush was voted for primarily on the basis of "Would you want to have a beer with this guy?" back in 2000 and re-elected again in 2004 because of "stay the course!" People are loving stupid about anything resembling civic responsibility.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:16
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So now in addition to the full scope of how much Jindal hosed LA, they're getting record flooding and a state of emergency has been declared I hope Bel Edwards is running an aggressive "pin everything on Jindal" campaign because if a Democrat catches the flak for the GOP's failed policies after being on the job for like a month then that whole state should probably just be swept away
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Mar 10, 2016 20:16
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:But who would they run? We've talked a lot about how the Silent Majority isn't a thing, and that's where all the presumed moderate/establishment Republicans are. They're a party of the oppressed white man. They can't run anyone. They can only obstruct and be angry about anything. Really Trump's no different than the rest of the imaginary creatures of the Right. The Religious Right that's okay with sin, the Silent Majority that can't win the election without relying on the racist or insane, the Mighty Republican Establishment that can't get rid of Trump and Trump the Richman who isn't really Rich.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:17
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