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Geriatric Pirate posted:I don't really care if they have to fill out forms to get government money. They're getting money for doing a job that doesn't make economic sense to do. Most of us don't have that luxury. Most of us can't just fill out some forms and then get government money to do what we want to do, we actually have to work jobs that provide things that people want at economically competitive prices and wages. If anything, the government should make the paperwork as difficult as possible to discourage farmers and maybe save us some money. User + post combo.
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# ? Mar 11, 2016 23:44 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 04:02 |
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Instead of various complicated farming subsidies the state should instead buy out the farmers and establish Suomen Maanviljelys and pay a salary to the farm operators. Can't do that under EU of course, but hey another reason to worship at the cult of Väyrynen.
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# ? Mar 12, 2016 01:24 |
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brakeless posted:How big a part of maataloustuet are those grants where the state doles out hundreds of thousands of € per year to big agricultural operators? Because that at least is nothing but politically enabled wealth transfer to the big players in a certain industry. Like, presumably you need a big production capacity to get the big bucks, which is nonsensical. There's any number of better uses for public money. Valio gets the biggest lump of maataloustuet but people like Nalle Walhroos and Antti Herlin still get six-figure sums because obviously they need it to run a farm in the middle of nowhere
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# ? Mar 12, 2016 20:16 |
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Jerry Cotton posted:No, most of them also drink loads of alcohol, abuse their families, and bad-mouth city folk. That's not because they're farmers though, they are just Finns (city Finns drink loads of alcohol, abuse their families and badmouth lande-folk)
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 09:00 |
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brakeless posted:How big a part of maataloustuet are those grants where the state doles out hundreds of thousands of € per year to big agricultural operators? Because that at least is nothing but politically enabled wealth transfer to the big players in a certain industry. Like, presumably you need a big production capacity to get the big bucks, which is nonsensical. There's any number of better uses for public money. I feel like a lot of Finns still think their blue-white flag-marked food comes from a good old boy farmer waking up at 4 AM and lovingly being part of the process from beginning to until it goes to a store. It's honestly kind of adorable.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 09:10 |
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doverhog posted:Instead of various complicated farming subsidies the state should instead buy out the farmers and establish Suomen Maanviljelys and pay a salary to the farm operators. This is something I don't understand. If the huoltovarmuus is such a big deal for Finland and one of the main reasons for Finnish agriculture, then why don't state just directly hire farmers to farm all the stuff that is necessary? Would be lot simpler than this bureaucracy boondoggle we now have.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 09:49 |
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Fish of hemp posted:This is something I don't understand. If the huoltovarmuus is such a big deal for Finland and one of the main reasons for Finnish agriculture, then why don't state just directly hire farmers to farm all the stuff that is necessary? Would be lot simpler than this bureaucracy boondoggle we now have. We could establish a paramilitary Farm Corps and provide a safe conduit for patriotic fervor.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 10:18 |
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Fish of hemp posted:This is something I don't understand. If the huoltovarmuus is such a big deal for Finland and one of the main reasons for Finnish agriculture, then why don't state just directly hire farmers to farm all the stuff that is necessary? Would be lot simpler than this bureaucracy boondoggle we now have. No one wants the state to make the decisions on what to actually grow.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 10:25 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:And I've paid into the farmers' pension pool when I was getting a grant, somehow the pension payments I have to make to that pool are about double the normal tyoelake I paid when drawing the same income via a salary. Go figure (you can see some quality farmer-keskusta lobbying going on yet again when people on grants, aka young people with low mortality risk, are thrown into the farmer's pension pool, which even despite this crap needs more government support than any other pension system). As far as I've understood, the justification for this is that the bulk sum nature of income for both grant receivers and farmers being similar. When I got my first grant during my bachelor's it was a bit weird to read about MELA with all the other papers. Darkest Auer posted:No one wants the state to make the decisions on what to actually grow. They do so indirectly, subsidies aren't equal for all products originating from farms. Its a huge mess with certain products having less demand and lower price, but the subsidy is higher for less work so it ends up being better money for the work put in.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 10:31 |
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DarkCrawler posted:I feel like a lot of Finns still think their blue-white flag-marked food comes from a good old boy farmer waking up at 4 AM and lovingly being part of the process from beginning to until it goes to a store. It's honestly kind of adorable. True, I too have the feeling that agribusiness isn't really percieved as an industry. It's the good old farmer Miettinen keeping the countryside inhabited, which is important for some reason.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 11:05 |
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Subsidies make sense in the way that every other country pays subsidies to farmers. So there is really no invisible hand of the market adjusting food prices.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 11:10 |
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you have to be really loving short-sighted and frankly stupid to not support your food production
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 11:23 |
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Since when has that ever been something in short supply?
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 14:03 |
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Nauta posted:you have to be really loving short-sighted and frankly stupid to not support your food production In other words, a capitalist
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 14:16 |
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Fish of hemp posted:This is something I don't understand. If the huoltovarmuus is such a big deal for Finland and one of the main reasons for Finnish agriculture, then why don't state just directly hire farmers to farm all the stuff that is necessary? Would be lot simpler than this bureaucracy boondoggle we now have. Probably because most attempts at making farming state-run around the world have led to famine. Incentives matter. Valiantman posted:Granted, I don't know how much salary they pay for themselves but I can confirm that at least some do so. I know that because that's pretty much the first thing they cut since in a family business it's all their personal income in the end anyway. I could sort of see where you're coming from (not agree but understand) if you didn't call farmers entitled and say they only fill forms to get money. Their workload is insane compared to their standard of living, I can't even compare the bureucratic pressure to any other job I could come up with and their income depends really heavily on external factors that they cannot control in the slightest. I'm glad you at least put "corrupt" in the scare quotes even though I'm not sure what you implied. Nauta posted:you have to be really loving short-sighted and frankly stupid to not support your food production Bensa posted:As far as I've understood, the justification for this is that the bulk sum nature of income for both grant receivers and farmers being similar. When I got my first grant during my bachelor's it was a bit weird to read about MELA with all the other papers. Interesting justification, but it still seems a bit dodgy. Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Mar 13, 2016 |
# ? Mar 13, 2016 14:58 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Nope, all you need to be is not xenophobic and a taxpayer. Look, I know you're really a caricature of an evil vuoristoneuvos, but can you really not tell the difference between food grown in Finland and mercury shipped in from China? Or is it just about money and nothing else?
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 15:47 |
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Darkest Auer posted:Look, I know you're really a caricature of an evil vuoristoneuvos, but can you really not tell the difference between food grown in Finland and mercury shipped in from China? Or is it just about money and nothing else? Whatever food you've been eating seems to have caused some sort of permanent brain damage - the Chinese food can't be any worse
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 15:57 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 16:01 |
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i dont really get why people think that finnish food is somehow cleaner than eg. polish, italian or brazilian
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 16:04 |
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because finnish people adhere to rules and regulations like proper autists. it's more likely a finnish food producer didn't cut corners in the process, i guess
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 16:21 |
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Hogge Wild posted:i dont really get why people think that finnish food is somehow cleaner than eg. polish, italian or brazilian When a Finnish farmer poisons a bunch of Finnish children out of negligence, he risks being lynched. When a Chinese farmer poisons a bunch of Finnish children out of negligence, he just has to vanish.
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 16:24 |
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Hogge Wild posted:i dont really get why people think that finnish food is somehow cleaner than eg. polish, italian or brazilian There actually are differences. For example Finnish chicken farms don't use antibiotics preemptively, and the same is not true in the rest of Europe. http://www.hs.fi/tiede/a1382678917956
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# ? Mar 13, 2016 18:13 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Whatever food you've been eating seems to have caused some sort of permanent brain damage - the Chinese food can't be any worse Joke's on you, I am eating Chinese food
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# ? Mar 14, 2016 00:35 |
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Darkest Auer posted:No one wants the state to make the decisions on what to actually grow. Lanttu is perfectly nutritious and also patriotic
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# ? Mar 14, 2016 23:05 |
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So anything happen lately? The Oh, and we're apparently stripping Posti of it's monopoly on letter deliveries. I think it's a relic, and have no opinion on this.
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 07:57 |
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I follow American politics to escape Finnish politics, I just want to be able to point and laugh with some degree of distance when the right-wing is loving a country over.
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 08:59 |
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Well, Sipilä's Aktion T4 is progressing swimmingly.
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 09:24 |
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:So anything happen lately? http://www.taloussanomat.fi/kansantalous/2016/03/16/suomen-talous-kasvoi-viime-vuonna-tuotanto-nousi-tammikuussa/20162958/12 The sopimus has been so good that it talous nousi before it was even on paper. Praise Sipilä. Rappaport posted:Well, Sipilä's Aktion T4 is progressing swimmingly.
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 11:05 |
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Rappaport posted:Well, Sipilä's Aktion T4 is progressing swimmingly. Hey, if that 75-year-old paraplegic wants a taxi ride to the shops, he'd better pull on those bootstraps and quit being a lazy moocher!
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 11:31 |
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Government finds the only group that has even less chance of protesting meaningfully than students.
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# ? Mar 16, 2016 18:08 |
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So, odins sonturit had their private FB page full of nazi poo poo invaded and publicized by the YLE red army. Nothing surprising about it, except maybe just how stupid they are thinking they could keep that poo poo on Facebook without it ever getting out.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 10:14 |
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Nazis revealed to be Nazis. Shocking.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 10:25 |
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Rexroom posted:Nazis revealed to be Nazis. Shocking.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 10:53 |
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Maybe we could start some sort of agency dedicated to ensuring that the food and consumer products we eat and use are safe (radical idea, I know). We could call it something like Elintarvikkeiden turvallisuusvirasto, or Elintarviketurvallisuusvirasto, and shorten it to something like Evira. If we're going to be paying farmers to produce clean and safe food instead of just regulating it, why don't we pay the poor, low cost producers abroad instead of our fairly rich domestic farmers to try to produce food in a climate that is terrible for growing food? Words like these are why we poke fun at the Finnish language. :-)
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 11:04 |
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Zudgemud posted:Words like these are why we poke fun at the Finnish language. :-) Compound words are the best though
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 11:55 |
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Zudgemud posted:Words like these are why we poke fun at the Finnish language. :-) Why yes, my friend was a lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas, why do you ask
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 12:58 |
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Rexroom posted:Nazis revealed to be Nazis. Shocking. Ligur ligurally said there are no actual Nazis in Finland so it is shocking.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 15:10 |
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Zudgemud posted:Words like these are why we poke fun at the Finnish language. :-) We? Illuminati confirmed. Also I don't really see elintarviketurvallisuusvirasto as being any funnier than victual safety bureau. Saving white space is like putting money in the bank.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 15:12 |
Jerry Cotton posted:Saving white space is like putting money in the bank. Get out SOO scum.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 15:15 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 04:02 |
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Buffalo squeeze posted:Get out SOO scum. I got negative interest. QED.
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# ? Mar 17, 2016 15:22 |