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Yeah. Cool to see KT tried to satisfy everyone. But yeesh at that Collector's edition price. Gonna stick to regular.ImpAtom posted:This is also something Square-Enix has done before. Both Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts have had games with major or significant improvements between their Japan and US releases both major and minor. Even frigging Valkyrie Profile has improvements to the US releases. Still, there's a difference between gameplay/balance revisions, and plot revisions. Especially since Japanese and Western players would react differently to the same situation. Is it right to preempt a response like that?
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Mar 18, 2016 15:16
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HGH posted:Still, there's a difference between gameplay/balance revisions, and plot revisions. Especially since Japanese and Western players would react differently to the same situation. Is it right to preempt a response like that? The games I mention also have plot revisions. The scene with Zack's death is for example only in the US version of the FFVII not in the Japanese one, as are a number of smaller plot tweaks. They were backported in the International edition. And while Japanese and Western players react differently that doesn't mean they exclusively do so. A lot of common plot complaints about games actually are mirrored in Japan and the US. There are cultural things which play differently but by and large if there are significant complaints about the plot from Japanese players they will show up in the West and vice-versa. The differences tend to be more in scale of character popularity or what specific things they have nostalgia for rather than "Japan hates hard decisions, America loves it!" It should be noted that the complaint here isn't "hard decisions are bad" but that people felt like their decisions didn't reflect the character's actions in a satisfying way. (This is, from what I understand, because you always get the bad ending the first time through in the Japanese version and can only get the good ending your second time making that decision.) This is pretty likely to be something people would get annoyed about even in the US. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 15:19
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Now I wanna see how many people hate on KH's excessive downward spiral towards anime over there.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:21
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Yeah, I don't think finding it melodramatic to end every single job quest with tragedies sprouting from false choices is a cultural thing.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:22
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HGH posted:Now I wanna see how many people hate on KH's excessive downward spiral towards anime over there. It is almost universally the same way as in the US in that you have people who actually enjoy the plot and people who deride it but enjoy the gameplay. The only major difference is that the Final MIx versions with English voice acting tend to be better received because they feel more accurate to the Disney films.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:26
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I've played and beaten Bravely Second and the moment I got to what was changed to the western release, my immediate thoughts were "Yeah, they almost definitely changed this based on feedback".
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Mar 18, 2016 15:26
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HGH posted:Yeah. Cool to see KT tried to satisfy everyone. But yeesh at that Collector's edition price. Gonna stick to regular. Should have imported the lovely PAL conversion  (at least for FFX)
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Mar 18, 2016 15:32
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BabyRyoga posted:Did I miss anything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7c9tJ5AYN4 e: pretty much the entire ffxiv soundtrack belongs on the list
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Mar 18, 2016 15:49
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Levantine posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7c9tJ5AYN4 MMOs aren't rpgs  But if I had to put one FFXIV track on it, it would be this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yijyvLcElBI
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Mar 18, 2016 15:54
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BabyRyoga posted:MMOs aren't rpgs FFXIV counts because it puts it's RPG before it's MMO.  And if we're posting Coil music, I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXEOBvuvkG0 (yes I know it's from 1.0 but it plays in T9). The Gaius/Hydrus version is good too but I like the low vocals of this one.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:55
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After Sephirot I'm really excited to see what Devil and Goddess will get as music.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:00
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Levantine posted:FFXIV counts because it puts it's RPG before it's MMO. Hmm, interesting way of phrasing it. That's probably why I thought it was a lovely MMO, actually. The quality control and production was great, but nearly everything MMOish about it blew from the perspective of an MMO vet. I played for about a month at the beginning of last year and got all the content available at the time down except for a couple of final coil bosses.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:10
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Dehry posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFQ2VYc4wZw no ps3 version eh they better loving make it pstv compatible then
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Mar 18, 2016 16:10
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Levantine posted:I think Suiko 1 is a lot more concise, but Suiko 2 does just about everything better in every way than the first. What is it you like more? The conciseness is a large part of the reason why. I love the pacing. It doesn't make you wait for anything. There's very little filler. It feels like Suikoden 2 does the same stuff but stretches it out. Right after the opening scene, it has a very slow start. What Jowy did also never made any sense to me, and that's a huge part of the story. Same for what Nanami does near the end. I like that 1's villains were more down to earth. The father and son on different sides of the war dynamic was the most intriguing part of the stories of both games for me. 1 was more challenging. The war battles were better in 1 just because in 2 they were all scripted. Each war battle in 2 was a lot of turns happen and then you automatically win or lose. I like the music better in 1. 1 has a much better translation. I like that the core group of 1's cast are all older adults, other than the silent protagonist. (Cleo, Pahn, Gremio, Flik, and Viktor are all 25+) Made it feel more adult than 2 and most RPGs. 2 also has some glitches and froze on me. Both are great games though.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:18
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Motto posted:No? They changed the game based on negative player feedback to a certain aspect of it. Except it sounds kind of like bullshit, honestly. Overwhelming feedback from Japanese fans led them to rework the Western version only? So we don't get a choice in the matter and the Japanese players are still screwed, given there's not been any indication of a patch for them? It doesn't really make sense. Honestly I don't care a huge amount, but I'd hesitate to take this damage-control statement as anything other than that, given that they only spoke up at all because people found out and threw a poo poo-fit. I do find it a bit disappointing because feedback I heard from importers was that the sidequests tried to inject a bit of grey-area stuff into the plot that fit the theme of the game pretty well, and that sounded pretty OK to me. What DOES really bother me about Second though is the loving soundtrack. BD's soundtrack was something special, the new one is way too generic 
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Mar 18, 2016 16:24
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thorsilver posted:Except it sounds kind of like bullshit, honestly. Overwhelming feedback from Japanese fans led them to rework the Western version only? There is a 90% chance that Japan will get an updated version of Bravely Second at some point in the future. You know, like what happened with Bravely Default. Again this happened to loving Bravely Default. They released a Japanese version which got a lot of criticism, took feedback, and the US version was based off a re-release called Bravely Default: For The Sequel. I like how the company involved gives an actual clear concise statement about why they changed it that makes perfect sense and the response is "No! They had a secret reason for doing it!" If you're not taking this reason at face value what do you think the real reason is? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 16:27
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thorsilver posted:Except it sounds kind of like bullshit, honestly. Overwhelming feedback from Japanese fans led them to rework the Western version only? So we don't get a choice in the matter and the Japanese players are still screwed, given there's not been any indication of a patch for them? It doesn't really make sense. It sounds bizarre but that's literally what happened with the first Bravely Default. Japan didn't get the version with the Random Encounter settings, it was only put there in the Western version because Japanese players complained about the random encounters.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:27
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BabyRyoga posted:Did I miss anything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXHSyqbo5ic
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Mar 18, 2016 16:32
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Why don't the youtube links have labels? Why aren't they in a playlist? I have to click 30 times? 
some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 16:40
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ImpAtom posted:There is a 90% chance that Japan will get an updated version of Bravely Second at some point in the future. You know, like what happened with Bravely Default. Again this happened to loving Bravely Default. They released a Japanese version which got a lot of criticism, took feedback, and the US version was based off a re-release called Bravely Default: For The Sequel. Calm the gently caress down please. I know about that version but that was a substantial set of significant gameplay and presentation changes that affected basically the entire game, more than sidequest plot changes and a character costume. So this current chain of events is not exactly the same. I'm sorry but I don't think it's that loving offensive to view PR statements released after a minor internet shitstorm with some degree of skepticism and to wonder about why we're only hearing about it now, after the shitstorm, and why I've not heard much in the way of complaining about what they discuss in this statement. mycot posted:It sounds bizarre but that's literally what happened with the first Bravely Default. Japan didn't get the version with the Random Encounter settings, it was only put there in the Western version because Japanese players complained about the random encounters. The Japanese did get it, it was called Bravely Default: For the Sequel, and that was the version which became the US/EU release.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:50
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thorsilver posted:I'm sorry but I don't think it's that loving offensive to view PR statements released after a minor internet shitstorm with some degree of skepticism Because you have no actual argument about your skepticism. There is a clear and unambiguous statement about this criticism that can be backed up by five minutes of looking at customer reviews of the Japanese version and which someone who played the Japanese version in this thread said "sounds about right." You're not being skeptical for any reason other than to be skeptical. thorsilver posted:to wonder about why we're only hearing about it now, after the shitstorm, and why I've not heard much in the way of complaining about what they discuss in this statement. Companies make changes to games all the time in localization, some major and some minor, and usually do not release open statements about them unless asked or unless they're trying to promote a specific feature they added. They released a statement due to people complaining but the statement explains why they did it. If you're asking why they didn't do it in advance because they probably genuinely didn't think it would be an issue. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 16:53
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ImpAtom posted:Because you have no actual argument about your skepticism. There is a clear and unambiguous statement about this criticism that cane be backed up by five minutes of looking at customer reviews of the Japanese version and which someone who played the Japanese version in this thread said "sounds about right." You're not being skeptical for any reason other than to be skeptical. I'm being skeptical because I've been following people talking about this game in other forums where, as I loving said already, people described sidequest resolutions that sounded interesting to me. Hence why I was surprised about the 'overwhelming feedback' thing and the decision to excise those endings entirely. Sure, I could see some people not liking it, but I think it would have been interesting for me, and probably for others too given the response to the initial news about these changes.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:00
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thorsilver posted:Calm the gently caress down please. *proceeds to flip out*
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Mar 18, 2016 17:04
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thorsilver posted:I'm being skeptical because I've been following people talking about this game in other forums where, as I loving said already, people described sidequest resolutions that sounded interesting to me. Hence why I was surprised about the 'overwhelming feedback' thing and the decision to excise those endings entirely. Sure, I could see some people not liking it, but I think it would have been interesting for me, and probably for others too given the response to the initial news about these changes. I am certain the sidequest resolutions would have interested some people but they are designed to be intentionally unsatisfying in a way that the game later subverts and which seems to have lead to a lot of complaints of false choices and 'wasting time' as well as increasing the tedium of seeing the available good endings. Why do you think they would do this if not in response to fan feedback? Do you think they don't think Americans and Europeans are capable of enjoying bad endings? Do you think this is 'censorship' despite that making no sense for the content of the game and the endings? What reason do you have to doubt it beyond "some guy on a forum said it was good' which happens to every single thing ever not localized or changed in localization.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:10
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No amount of additional sidequest endings could make those sidequests good story-wise, anyways. They barely make sense as is. It's like as if you were supposed to have the option of having A1 sauce with your well-done steak, and they took the possibility of sauce away. Steak is still overdone trash 
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Mar 18, 2016 17:17
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I like 'em. Most of them are thematically relevant, and the ones that aren't are silly. Overall BS is a lot more like the "Girl Power" sidequests of the later chapters of BD than the early "children murdering each other over drugs" of the early ones.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:20
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Some people liked the mass effect 3 ending but that doesn't make it good or them not idiots
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Mar 18, 2016 17:22
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Haha, fair point. Shouldn't post in anger after a 70-hour work week I guess. ImpAtom posted:I am certain the sidequest resolutions would have interested some people but they are designed to be intentionally unsatisfying in a way that the game later subverts and which seems to have lead to a lot of complaints of false choices and 'wasting time' as well as increasing the tedium of seeing the available good endings. Yeah and again I can see that, but the subversion of those bad endings sounds kind of cool to me, and it's far from uncommon that RPGs make you work a bit to see the best endings (SMT games, for example). I do wonder as well if it's possible that people are being oversensitive to perceived time-wastage in a Bravely game due to the massive reaction to the repeats in the first one. quote:Why do you think they would do this if not in response to fan feedback? Do you think they don't think Americans and Europeans are capable of enjoying bad endings? Do you think this is 'censorship' despite that making no sense for the content of the game and the endings? What reason do you have to doubt it beyond "some guy on a forum said it was good' which happens to every single thing ever not localized or changed in localization. No I don't think it's censorship, it's just a weird change that doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me, when the outcome won't necessarily please any more people than if they'd just left it. Basically I don't see why they couldn't have changed things in a way that preserved the 'bad ends' while making things less annoying for players, rather than just excising them. It's because of this that people are speculating that this was done out of a desire for a more hand-holdey experience (not exactly that but can't think of a better word), and that's not out of character for Nintendo/SE as publishers in the past. I can't help but wonder this is well, though I'd imagine if that were true that it's not because they think we can't handle it, but because of a misplaced desire to smooth things over a bit excessively (which has led to complaints about Nintendo going nuts with tutorials, for example). Or it could also be what I said above -- the localisers worrying about the time-wastage perception given how crazy people went over the repetition in BD.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:35
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thorsilver posted:Yeah and again I can see that, but the subversion of those bad endings sounds kind of cool to me, and it's far from uncommon that RPGs make you work a bit to see the best endings (SMT games, for example). Yeah, but people really strongly dislike those. Half the posts in the SMTIV thread were about how bullshit it was to get the neutral ending and in SMTIV Final my understanding is that they changed it so the different endings are basically much easier to get rather than sticking with the same system in the predecessor. Any given Persona 4 conversation will probably have at least one person mention how much they disliked the two false endings in the game for being unclear. Those things tend not to be very popular. (And I say this as someone who liked how P4 handled it.) I mean Valkyrie Profile is one of my favorite games of all time and the #1 complaint any given person will make about that game is that they hate what you have to do to get the best ending. BS isn't anywhere near that (and indeed it isn't even really a 'put a bit of work' into it situation.) thorsilver posted:It's because of this that people are speculating that this was done out of a desire for a more hand-holdey experience (not exactly that but can't think of a better word), and that's not out of character for Nintendo/SE as publishers in the past. If the developers were going to change things for a more 'hand-holdy' experience they'd focus on gameplay, not story elements. And even in that case hand-holdy is not synonymous with bad. You know what makes the game more hand-holdy and streamlined? The ability to modify your random encounter rate or automate your combat choices. Both of which I think only the most grognardy of grognards wouldn't say were a positive change for BD:FTS over BD. I am certain that the negative response to BD helped influence their decision but BD has been good about taking customer feedback so this feels like an extent of the pattern rather than something new. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 17:43
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corn in the bible posted:no ps3 version eh I wouldn't hold out hope with the TV being discontinued.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:47
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, but people really strongly dislike those. Half the posts in the SMTIV thread were about how bullshit it was to get the neutral ending and in SMTIV Final my understanding is that they changed it so the different endings are basically much easier to get rather than sticking with the same system in the predecessor. Any given Persona 4 conversation will probably have at least one person mention how much they disliked the two false endings in the game for being unclear. Those things tend not to be very popular. (And I say this as someone who liked how P4 handled it.) I'm not too familiar with exactly what BS did so I'm not going to take a hard stance, but if the localizations had just flat out removed the bad endings to p4 or the non-neutral endings to SMTIV I would have been upset and I think rightfully so
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Mar 18, 2016 17:52
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Cake Attack posted:I'm not too familiar with exactly what BS did so I'm not going to take a hard stance, but if the localizations had just flat out removed the bad endings to p4 or the non-neutral endings to SMTIV I would have been upset and I think rightfully so this
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Mar 18, 2016 17:56
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Cake Attack posted:I'm not too familiar with exactly what BS did so I'm not going to take a hard stance, but if the localizations had just flat out removed the bad endings to p4 or the non-neutral endings to SMTIV I would have been upset and I think rightfully so That isn't really what BS does and kind of avoids the point of what I was saying about 'working for the good ending' not actually being a thing people tend to praise and if they adjusted it in localization to be clearer or less time-wasting or less point-of-no-return I don't think it would have gotten serious complaints. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, but people really strongly dislike those. Half the posts in the SMTIV thread were about how bullshit it was to get the neutral ending and in SMTIV Final my understanding is that they changed it so the different endings are basically much easier to get rather than sticking with the same system in the predecessor. Any given Persona 4 conversation will probably have at least one person mention how much they disliked the two false endings in the game for being unclear. Those things tend not to be very popular. (And I say this as someone who liked how P4 handled it.) Surely they were popular with *someone*, given they've been doing that kind of thing for ages? Or whatever, forget SMT and pick other games with multiple ending paths. Atelier games, Nier, Planescape, etc. etc. The point is that they're commonplace and the idea of different paths with tough requirements to see different endings is quite popular in some cases. Hell, Planescape straight-up locks you out of tons of dialogue if you don't dump your stat points into Int (or Wis? can't remember), has some quite disturbing conclusions to sidequests, and has a bunch of different endings, some of which are real awful, yet it's widely considered one of the best RPGs of all time. quote:If the developers were going to change things for a more 'hand-holdy' experience they'd focus on gameplay, not story elements. And even in that case hand-holdy is not synonymous with bad. You know what makes the game more hand-holdy and streamlined? The ability to modify your random encounter rate or automate your combat choices. Both of which I think only the most grognardy of grognards wouldn't say were a positive change for BD:FTS over BD. Look you asked for baseless speculation, I gave it to you. And as I mentioned 'hand-holdy' isn't exactly the right word, because it is about story, I agree with you. But I do think story elements can be made 'hand-holdy' in the sense of smoothing over parts that are grim or emotionally challenging or possibly frustrating or whatever. While that's not synonymous with bad, nor is it synonymous with good.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:57
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thorsilver posted:Surely they were popular with *someone*, given they've been doing that kind of thing for ages? A lot of video game design decisions are made either for the point of 'we've been doing this for ages and we're not going to change" or, as if more common, an idea that sounded good on paper but was bad in execution. thorsilver posted:Look you asked for baseless speculation, I gave it to you. And as I mentioned 'hand-holdy' isn't exactly the right word, because it is about story, I agree with you. But I do think story elements can be made 'hand-holdy' in the sense of smoothing over parts that are grim or emotionally challenging or possibly frustrating or whatever. While that's not synonymous with bad, nor is it synonymous with good. They would have changed a lot more of BS than that if that is what they wanted to do. thorsilver posted:Or whatever, forget SMT and pick other games with multiple ending paths. Atelier games, Nier, Planescape, etc. etc. The point is that they're commonplace and the idea of different paths with tough requirements to see different endings is quite popular in some cases. Hell, Planescape straight-up locks you out of tons of dialogue if you don't dump your stat points into Int (or Wis? can't remember), has some quite disturbing conclusions to sidequests, and has a bunch of different endings, some of which are real awful, yet it's widely considered one of the best RPGs of all time. Bravely Second doesn't change the ending of the game as far as I am aware. RPGs that lock you out of content without specifically investing in certain stats tend to get a lot of complaints about it and most highly-praised RPGs instead have alternate paths you can use to get to similar or the same outcomes. New Vegas in particular is highly praise for this. Flat INT/CHA checks tend to just get complaints about effectively gating you behind investing in a stat or getting bad endings to plotlines. Also, again, to my understanding what you're saying doesn't apply to BS which still requires players to make choices which have different and potentially uncomfortable outcome. It is that the first time you make that choice it defaults to a 'bad' outcome while the second time you can get a more positive outcome. Like, to my understanding, here is how Bravely Second's sidequests work: You're given a choice between two outcomes. You pick Choice A or Choice B. In the Japanese version no matter what happens, Choice A ends up kind of negative. Later on you're given a chance to revisit Choice A or Choice B. If you pick Choice A again then Choice A has a more positive outcome. If you pick Choice B instead you get the negative outcome for Choice B instead. If you pick Choice B both times you get the positive outcome to choosing Choice B. In the English version you pick between Choice A and Choice B. No matter what you get the positive outcome to their storyline but you're still making a decision between two outcomes. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:00
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BabyRyoga posted:How bout a best music of all time in (j)RPGs discussion? No discussion to be had, you nailed it. Gonna throw this in anyway, (j)SRPGs count right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WGP7VF3-BA
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Mar 18, 2016 18:00
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BabyRyoga posted:Did I miss anything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vxp-BTNe1M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJJK21-wanY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfEpWgjjzc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvem4Naak6U
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Mar 18, 2016 18:04
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BabyRyoga posted:Did I miss anything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dKpeTEBYIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yX4h8Agi7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUl3kUhc73c
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Mar 18, 2016 18:18
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Mr E posted:I wouldn't hold out hope with the TV being discontinued. the japanese one came out before the tv was discontinued and it sounds like that is indeed pstv compatible. so it's defo possible.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:18
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