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Maybe unrelated but nightclub can get super hosed up at front door sometimes and then be the back door van.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:32
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Skill revamp just got posted, looks...interesting https://media.overkillsoftware.com/2016/03/mastermind.pdf Prokhor Zakharov fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:14
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Mar 18, 2016 18:24
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posted:
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I don't think I like this too much as far as the new skill system goes, but hey, Stockholm Syndrome might finally do literally anything now! E: Endurance is a hilarious grab bag of unrelated abilities. E2:  Mastermind now has both FAKs and Doc Bags as deployable options
RandallODim fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:25
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You need to ace Combat Medic to get to Inspire ace. Beserker builds get hosed (presumably). Did dominator get folded into something else, or can everyone shout down cops now? Hoping for the latter! e: six-charge doc bags lmao. Uppers ace means FAKs now cheese reputation beyond reproach? Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:50
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Its most likely that the extra two charges in partners in crime is just a misprint as otherwise they already hosed up in trying to conceive three different paths for a skill tree to specialize into. Also according to that image, rifleman was taken from technician. Does this mean its entirely just deployables and faster drills now? Crabtree fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 19:00
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I'm rather leery about them reducing the total number of skill points we get by 20, then restricting build flexibility further. Can't say for sure until we get to see more of the trees, but that bodes ill.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:03
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Instead of messing with the number of points you need to sink into a tree to advance, Infamy will grant you a grand total of four skillpoints. I guess you start level 0 with 4 points? IDK.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:06
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Not sure how to feel about the rest of it, but I'm super stoked to finally get a proper Sharpshooter tree. Though I can't help but think that doing one class a week isn't going to do them any favors, especially when they're clearly shifting stuff around between classes. It feels a bit weird to judge Mastermind by itself before I know exactly what the heck they're doing with the other four. Edit: Oh, and currently no mention of further Perk Deck changes, either. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 19:12
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I can't help but notice that there doesn't seem to be a skill that actually unlocks the deployables for you. I wonder if you'll just get access to each of those by default?
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Mar 18, 2016 19:31
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Swan song and auto-revive FAKs are going to be insane together.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:37
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John Murdoch posted:Not sure how to feel about the rest of it, but I'm super stoked to finally get a proper Sharpshooter tree. That sharpshooter tree looks like poo poo though, at best it's 3 headshots to get refunded a single bullet, that's garbage as gently caress.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:37
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Now that I think about, this new skills only go to 4 tiers system could make implementing new skill trees much more simpler if you have the three side tree paths for them thought out. Also whatever they do with technician, it really needs a side tree whose top skill is being able to bring any deployable mission equipment/favor to any heist. I'd love for them to have a specialization that is just technician bringing all the toys to play with.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:38
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:That sharpshooter tree looks like poo poo though, at best it's 3 headshots to get refunded a single bullet, that's garbage as gently caress. Aggressive reload and spotter are very good, but that top skill is pretty lol.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:39
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So, uhh... who's actually going to spend 6 points on Spotter Basic? I like how Endurance Ace and Control Freak Basic only cost 2 points in total under this new system. Dr Cheeto posted:You need to ace Combat Medic to get to Inspire ace. Beserker builds get hosed (presumably).
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Mar 18, 2016 19:44
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maswastaken posted:You do? They still exist? I've got one - shotgun Rogue. Lemme tell you, Berserker with a cut down Mosconi and crits will kill an amazing amount of things.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:50
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maswastaken posted:You do? They still exist?  You need to ace the bottom skill to get anywhere. You need to ace a second-tier skill to get to the third-tier. Getting to the top in the most efficient way would then require either acing a third-tier skill or picking up basic in both third-tiers as well as basic in the other second-tier. Infamies do not reduce these requirements. If you want doc bags, FAKs, or Inspire you're acing Combat Medic. Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 19:52
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This kind of looks like poo poo
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Mar 18, 2016 20:03
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Oh. I see how that works now. ...I can live without Spotter.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:03
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Yeah it feels weird to judge this by itself. Also, getting an ACE top tier skill requires you to use 28 out of 104 avalible points (possibly more maximum points with Infamy 3.0), so you could get 3 subtrees maxed. That leaves you with 20 points, enough to get another Tier 3 in another skill subtree. Given that the subtrees seem more focused now then ever, this does give you more of a "mix and match" options (the options being whole subtrees), and I overall think it reduces flexibility. Gonna wait for some more info.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:13
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For the sharpshooter stuff on first glance: -Ammo efficiency looks useless unless they start nerfing ammo pickups and reserves again -Maybe aced spotter is useful if it's not a ridiculous distance, because most good players I know prefer to get up close and instantly melt enemies -Aggressive reload would be a nice improvement for stuff like the Thanny, lever-action, m308, Walther, etc. -Happy to have Rifleman out of the tech tree. For Controller: -Stockholm seems not bad (especially for poo poo like that bomb forest achievement), but I don't know why they're still so married to that skill. -Having someone be able to bring 12 doc bag charges would make me feel better about bringing gimmicky equipment. -If I'm reading this right, I like having sprint-reloads earlier in the Master tree. -For medic, I'm just kind of psyched that we have the PD2 equivalent of MGS rations. edit: also, holy poo poo Cheeto timg please.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:44
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It's worth noting that spotter is, as of today, the only way to boost the damage of grenade launchers and RPGs. Depending on how the bonus works, spotter ace might have a place in the hearts of a number of goons. Sorry about the big image, phoneposting ATM. Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 20:51
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Plan Z posted:-Ammo efficiency looks useless unless they start nerfing ammo pickups and reserves again I can see the potential with sniper rifles in particular. As an example, the Thanny's got 15 rounds base - Ace Ammo Efficency and you get an extra 6 rounds (5 + 1 more from the ones you get back). 50% more ammo for a gun you're going to be going for headshots on every trigger pull anyway is reasonably handy (though probably still not good enough for a 10 point investment).
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Mar 18, 2016 21:27
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Aced Uppers looks Ace. Does Aced Uppers trigger Aced Quick Fix? I have this feeling like this is going to be like the big gun rebalance - we all hate it at first and after a month we think it's rad.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:15
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Plan Z posted:-Stockholm seems not bad (especially for poo poo like that bomb forest achievement), but I don't know why they're still so married to that skill.  The basic skill seems useful enough. Hostages fleeing after being freed is a small issue on holdout maps. However, the best thing skills can do is either speed up objectives or make shooting cops easier. Stockholm has never done one or the other.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:16
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Bootcha posted:
Oh hey, you're still alive. Where are these new skill trees posted? I'm kinda curious to look at them, aside from the Mastermind one posted above.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:58
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They haven't revealed any others. They're going to show off one a week and then start the skill beta after all 5 have been revealed.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:01
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Some of the lower end skills look neat, but overall unimpressed with Mastermind. But thats never been my playstyle anyways.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:07
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Inspire ace fits every playstyle, friend.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:13
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Dr Cheeto posted:Inspire ace fits every playstyle, friend. If you aren't shouting like 90+ "GET THE gently caress UP!"s in any given game, you shouldn't be bringing Chains. 
IBlameRoadSuess fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 23:26
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The saddest day was when they added more inspire lines to Chains. Of course they also gave everyone variations on his "GET THE gently caress UP" so it evens out I guess.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:33
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UnknownMercenary posted:The saddest day was when they added more inspire lines to Chains. Please tell me Jacket says "Wake the heck up, please  "
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Mar 18, 2016 23:38
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Tulip posted:Aced Uppers looks Ace. The weapon rebalanced sucks because it makes several paid dlcs completely blow
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Mar 18, 2016 23:40
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Questions/thoughts:
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 23:43
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Tempest_56 posted:I can see the potential with sniper rifles in particular. As an example, the Thanny's got 15 rounds base - Ace Ammo Efficency and you get an extra 6 rounds (5 + 1 more from the ones you get back). 50% more ammo for a gun you're going to be going for headshots on every trigger pull anyway is reasonably handy (though probably still not good enough for a 10 point investment). Or more, if it procs on penetrating shots. You could reasonably hit 2 headshots at once with most of the sniper rifles.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:48
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I think it's a great idea making sprint reloading more accessible, it's taken for granted in battlefield games but it significantly cuts down your downtime. It makes me hopeful that counterstrike or shaped charges will get a similar treatment.PantsOptional posted:I can't help but notice that there doesn't seem to be a skill that actually unlocks the deployables for you. I wonder if you'll just get access to each of those by default? You only have one choice at the bottom of each tree, combat medic, cable tie or stable shot. It looks like they're the minimum investment to unlock a tree now. If you need to ace a skill to unlock the next tier then it's going to be harder to achieve the usual smattering of picks.
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Mar 19, 2016 01:54
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Delacroix posted:I think it's a great idea making sprint reloading more accessible, it's taken for granted in battlefield games but it significantly cuts down your downtime. It makes me hopeful that counterstrike or shaped charges will get a similar treatment. You need to ace the skill to unlock the second tier, it's all in that big-rear end image that was posted earlier.
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Mar 19, 2016 01:57
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Discendo Vox posted:The skill tree overall lacks a coherent theme- only some of the medic and controller skills have much to do with the image of a criminal mastermind. I'm not so sure about this. I guess what they're going for is less the standard criminal mastermind, but it all fits quite well into the team leader archetype. Mastermind is now completely about putting your team, your pet cop, and even your pet civilians between you and the cops, while you hang back and take potshots. At the very least, nudging the medic/support class towards the "stay back and shoot things from a mile away" playstyle makes a hell of a lot of sense compared to them getting pistols just because. Also, I think something being overlooked about Ammo Efficiency is that, while it suffers from the "mediocre basic skill/improved aced skill" problem and is definitely under-tuned for a top tier skill, it's ultimately meant to supplement your ammo supply so that you don't have to expose yourself to grab ammo drops as often. It's also obviously more attuned towards sniper rifles than assault rifles with large ammo pools; I think this is them attempting to solve the DLC problem by working to make skills that can function with a vanilla weapon pool but clearly push paid weapons further. Also, since I ended up thinking a lot about this, here's my speculation for the rest of the classes:
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 03:10
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). Something to keep in mind is that they did mention further changes to melee weapons. And perhaps they could finally split Aced Iron Man off into Run and Gun in the shotgun tree and Shield Punch in the melee tree and shove Aced Bulletproof in their place.
" skills in one place.
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My first impression is that it's not significantly different from the current system - it takes the current tree, flattens it a little bit, then splits it into three separate silos. Some things become easier to access (Ace Inspire), other things harder (Spotter). Dominator appears to be completely gone, which means they may be giving everyone the ability to force cops to surrender by default. I'm gonna miss 50% extra shout range though if that doesn't become free, it allows you mark things at much longer ranges. I feel like the new system is going to be a net loss in terms of build variety. The silos pare thing down to an A/B choice at every tier, and the way the math works out you need to ace one thing in each tier or do a T2 Ace/T2 Basic/T3 Basic/T3 Basic split to hit T4 without wasting points. With some silos being questionable as it is (Controller looks largely worthless outside of 6 points for Endurance, which is way more expensive than the 2 points it used to be), it's going to be the same focus on the power skills without the necessity of tier locks forcing you to spread out. Gunning for Ace Inspire in the current system has a ton of flexibility in how you distribute your T2/3 and T4/5 points, though to be fair Mastermind seems to be the best designed tree in that regard after ignoring the completely useless stuff like Stockholm Syndrome. I'll have to wait until the rest of the skill trees are unveiled to properly judge it, since they might be giving the other quality of life stuff the Dominator treatment (but then again, they might get the Endurance treatment too). It seems like it's going to make weird stuff like Inspire/Bulletproof builds possible without sacrificing too much, but they seem to be making other big changes to skills given what we're seeing right now so everything is up in the air. Sharpshooter looks like it's gonna be really nice on a Sniper build but kinda meh on everything else. Mastermind's emphasis on pistols is completely gone now, probably being handed off to Fugitive? And got Technician's rifle stuff in exchange. Odds are Technician is going to get a Turret tree, a C4/Drilling tree, and a passive armor/buff tree.
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Mar 19, 2016 03:42
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I hope that Fugitive becomes the dump for pistol skills, ending with AKIMBO EVERYTHING as the aced akimbo also no ammo penalty, gently caress that
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Mar 19, 2016 03:47
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