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CellarDweller posted:Do you believe him? If you think he is only over-invested in the train-wreck emotionally maybe it would be best to let it go? Well I'm going to have to have a man to man talk with him about whether it's this poo poo that is stopping him from buying a house, that's for sure. And that was what I said about unskippable animations taking away control but he was sure there was a workaround/skip for that so I let it go. edit: The bullshit is 7 layers thick over there though, I get the feeling the backers cling to the one answer from CiG that tells them what they want, and disregard the 20 that indicate it won't ever happen. They're really on the wrong track with my brother talking about needing 'faith' and talking about non-believers though, I can certainly work on that angle. Smorgasbord fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 04:49
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Smorgasbord posted:Well I'm going to have to have a man to man talk with him about whether it's this poo poo that is stopping him from buying a house, that's for sure. That can't be what's stopping him. He makes a good income and also made money on Star Citizen. Let me guess, also made money on Bitcoin too right?  THE WORLD WONDERS
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Mar 20, 2016 04:51
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Smorgasbord posted:He's a sharp guy usually, but I guess imaginary space games are his specific weakness. He certainly has no love for the community over there and was conceded a few points that I raised. Re the Sandi degree stuff - he raised that point, not me so it's pretty clear that the implanting of those lies is pretty sucessful over there. CIG is really drat good at propaganda. They constantly use targeted and specific information control to spin fuckery as vision and innovation. Those of us who know the business of software can see right through it, cause most of us have lived it, but for someone without that perspective it's easy to fall prey to CIG's tactic of being exceptionally loving vague and letting your imagination fill in the gaping holes however you please. Plenty of smart people ITT were fooled. The biggest thing that he needs to understand is that he's a customer, and for customers, working code is the only thing that matters. When you look at it from the perspective of status, nothing they have produced is worth a gently caress. It's been 5 months for the PU, and it's in absolute shambles, and getting worse. Concepts, vision, dreams, being a part of the anti-establishment, courage to take as long as He needs to make a game nobody would dare attempt - this is all horse poo poo that is consciously and intentionally being used to monetize nerds with discretionary spending power. Point him to the evidence. If he has the will and the stomach to assess what CIG produces without prejudice, he will see that Star Citizen is not feasible, and CIG's position is not sustainable.
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Mar 20, 2016 04:54
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Smorgasbord posted:Guys this is literally posted by my brother after a discussion I had with him yesterday....hooo boy. Wow, so you're sarsapillar's brother. 
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Mar 20, 2016 04:54
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Smorgasbord posted:And that was what I said about unskippable animations taking away control but he was sure there was a workaround/skip for that so I let it go. Yeah, it's called "closing your eyes when you know it's coming". But it kinda spoils the view of the headset you paid $600 plus tax (also known as half-an-idris).
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Mar 20, 2016 04:55
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A typical shitizen actually believes that all the tech is in and that all CIG have to do is um...shuffle things around and put everything into place and the game will be finished. I mean its practically complete!
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Mar 20, 2016 04:59
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I particularly like how they handwaved away the Wing Commander script (that Roberts wrote) by talking about the various movies & games he has producer credit for (and did not write).
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Mar 20, 2016 05:03
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Remember when he was on stage and threw the script on the ground and made another guy pick it up lol
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Mar 20, 2016 05:05
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Decrepus posted:Remember when he was on stage and threw the script on the ground and made another guy pick it up lol And then spit all over the cake. Cake which a crowd of backers watched him eat. Birthday cake. For a game that doesn't exist. It was a good moment.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:09
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Kakarot posted:A typical shitizen actually believes that all the tech is in and that all CIG have to do is um...shuffle things around and put everything into place and the game will be finished. I mean its practically complete! Those types of posts usually read like this: "I'm 100% sure CIG has a bunch of additional work they're just not showing us yet. I mean, heh, if they didn't, and what we see is all they've really got working, and well, heh heh, that would mean we're pretty deeply hosed, right? So yeah, they MUST have more they're not showing us, otherwise, I mean, I guess the $10k I spent using my trusty faith-based decision making system would be burning in the garbage right? And I just can't even possibly imagine THAT. I spent $10k on this game, that means it's definitely amazing. It has to be. Otherwise my wife was right in divorce court when she used that $10k I hid from her to prove I'm not a worthy father or husband. And I mean.. Thing is, I AM a worthy father and husband because I FEEL like I am. And Star Citizen WILL be the best game in history because it HAS to be. I mean, if I'm wrong about this, my entire sense of self would be blown away in the blink of an eye! That feels impossible!"
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Mar 20, 2016 05:11
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Smorgasbord posted:edit: It all started from him saying he wants to buy an Oculus Rift, and me being pretty sure it's incompatible with what CiG are doing - what can I say to at least save him from that bad decision? The thing is -- if he's got the bread for Oculus or Vive, he will have no shortage of wonderfully immersive space games to play in 2016 and 2017. Star Citizen won't be one of them but that's just as well since it seems like you'd spend most of the time running around genero-sci-fi corridors.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:12
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Smorgasbord posted:Well I'm going to have to have a man to man talk with him about whether it's this poo poo that is stopping him from buying a house, that's for sure. It's more than the unskippable view snatching events and things you can just close your eyes through. There's head bob, cut scenes, canned iron sight aiming, tons of glitchy madness and more, but most damning aspect IMO is the hyperactive flight model that make ships feel and fly as if they have no mass -the one part of the game these chuckleheads assume it's going to be good for if nothing else. The same reasons that make ED 'boring' to the twitch/fps crowd CIG is desperately trying to impress since the sim crowd's is tapped already, are the same things that make ED a suitable VR candidate (limitations on movement that make it irrelevant what input you're using) and in SC this problem runs to the very core of their mechanics of balancing ships that even a Constellation (one of the bigger flyable ships) still flies like a hummingbird on crack and smaller ones are even worse. Maybe some of the talented shoopsters here can update this nice little confirmation bias gif for SC 
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Mar 20, 2016 05:13
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trucutru posted:Edit: Whoa! I totally misunderstood your post. sorry. I burn with curiosity to know what the misunderstanding was. Also I just picked up a 4k monitor and everything is really loving tiny unless I CTRL/mousewheel a lot.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:13
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No seriously dude get your brother in here. Tell him he'd do it if he's not afraid/weaksauce (I too have brothers)
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Mar 20, 2016 05:16
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Haskell9 posted:I burn with curiosity to know what the misunderstanding was. Also I just picked up a 4k monitor and everything is really loving tiny unless I CTRL/mousewheel a lot.  4k, bitches
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Mar 20, 2016 05:19
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G0RF posted:I have an effort post -- intended for use elsewhere -- about why Star Citizen won't ever be VR compatible. I can send you an early copy if you think it will help. This is bigger than just the forced animations-- tho those will absolutely have to be removed completely (despite the fact that they are the duct tape of the gameplay contraption they've built. Five speeds of running acceleration is another no-no. It goes on. They continue to add immersive refinements that further preclude them from VR compatibility and the honest truth is, a drunken Chris telling a fan at Bar Citizen "when VR glasses are as small and light as that pair of glasses, then we'll do it" is tantamount to him conceding they can't be bothered... Yes please, it seems they will swallow whatever mumblefart non answer given by Roberts or Lesnick as an affirmative regardless of how vague the answer is or how functionally impossible it is to implement, then it becomes accepted gosspel in their forums. Some technical refutation should get through to him I hope. I guess it's all fun and games watching arrogant shitizens defend all this poo poo until it's someone close to you that's been suckered and you realise how thick yet also frustratingly vague all of this propaganda is. Having it all play out on videos rather than text is quite cunning too since you're fighting a collective 'reimagining' of what was said rather than plain text you can pick apart.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:20
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Smorgasbord, could you ask your brother WHY he's got this level of trust in Roberts? All trolling and joking aside, the guy doesn't seem to have actually been responsible for creating something good since the Wing Commander games back in the 90s. What makes someone think he's suddenly going to pull out some top tier writing and game management skills despite pretty much his entire history?
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Mar 20, 2016 05:25
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Sunswipe posted:Smorgasbord, could you ask your brother WHY he's got this level of trust in Roberts? All trolling and joking aside, the guy doesn't seem to have actually been responsible for creating something good since the Wing Commander games back in the 90s. What makes someone think he's suddenly going to pull out some top tier writing and game management skills despite pretty much his entire history? I don't think he does, he believes in the developers. He agreed that Roberts and Lesnick are awful spokespeople. I was arguing that Roberts is the problem regardless of how good the developers are because he's behind all the reworks and undeliverable promises etc. We didn't really play space games growing up (more Age of Empires, Diablo, Baldur's Gate) and at least when we were growing up we never had a Wing Commander game so it's not that.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:28
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Thoatse posted:1) Facebook Got it. People hate Facebook. BTW, i supported them early on. Didn't really feel like a slap at all. Although at first i was a little skeptical of what FB would do with them and even had a suspicion they might shelve them or even just suck out the patents and leave a husk. None of that came to be, though, so... *shrug* Thoatse posted:7) some prefer the more oval shaped FoV that is a little taller That's an interesting point. I prefer wider to taller, never thought it might be the opposite for others. Still, i think the difference is too subtle for most people. Thoatse posted:8) slightly lower computer processing req due to Lighthouse being passive/handled by HMD vs Constellation being handled by your pc, which the cameras need to be connected to Single camera uses very little processing power, on my old machine at least (3770K). Negligible impact, really. This might change, tho, with Touch and multiple cameras, i.e. turn out to not scale linearly at all. Thoatse posted:The screens may be the same specs, but Oculus actually uses better optics and maybe even better screens (they're partnered with Samsung remember) so image quality is a tad better in CV1, but I have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'motion range out of the box is worse'. Oculus reported to be more comfortable and better weight distribution and is easier to put on/take off, plus comes with nice built in audio solution. Like i've said, yes, Oculus has a slight image quality headstart. By motion range i've meant detection cone of the camera + occlusion and LED constellation blind spots. Thoatse posted:you are mistaken on battery life on the controllers, probably confusing them with early reporting based on the prototypes going around because production units last several hours and also have a battery life readout in the hmd. Good to know that's fixed, although "several hours" doesn't exactly sound impressive. I doubt anyone will hop around with the controllers for longer at a time, so it's probably good enough. But yeah, bottom line, at least from where i'm standing, they're a match. It's going to be down to personal preference and title exclusivity (if any). Thanks for the post effort, much appreciated! I'm beat. /me off to sleep orcinus fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 05:31
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Smorgasbord posted:I don't think he does, he believes in the developers. He agreed that Roberts and Lesnick are awful spokespeople. I was arguing that Roberts is the problem regardless of how good the developers are because he's behind all the reworks and undeliverable promises etc. If anything, I'm even more confused now than I was before. To be buying into this without even some bizarre faith in Roberts as the saviour of PC gaming... I don't get it. Saying he believes in the developers is like saying the house will turn out fine because the builders are really good when your architect has drawn up plans to build the house out of Play-Doh and papier mache.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:36
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Smorgasbord posted:Well I'm going to have to have a man to man talk with him about whether it's this poo poo that is stopping him from buying a house, that's for sure. hahaha...  Smorgasbord posted:I don't think he does, he believes in the developers. why would he believe them? you can still save your brother. maybe. hopefully. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 05:43
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Thoatse posted:There's head
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Mar 20, 2016 05:44
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The New York Times posted:Since [Trump] prefers to rely on himself for policy advice, is he seeking out expert help on the abstruse delegate rules? “Yeah,” he said, “I have people, very good people, the best people.” No details, as usual. Star Citizen is the Donald Trump of video games.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:55
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I think the lack of help/answers in that thread might've helped me out actually. Insane rantings about Derek Smart, incorrect accusations of lying/trolling, and talk of 'non-believers' is hardly going to ease his mind on any of that. I liked how almost half of the replies admitted some or all of the questions were troubling them too, and those people came across as by far the most level headed and helpful. Thread then closed because according to the mod the "questions" (their quotemarks) had been answered... some community they have over there huh?
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Mar 20, 2016 05:59
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Smorgasbord posted:Yes please, it seems they will swallow whatever mumblefart non answer given by Roberts or Lesnick as an affirmative regardless of how vague the answer is or how functionally impossible it is to implement, then it becomes accepted gosspel in their forums. Some technical refutation should get through to him I hope. Cool - I will send it tomorrow. Also worth noting-- if memory serves Ben recently said in RtV that VR would come after they'd finished the core mechanics. (I have the exact quote in the article). If this really is their plan (which seems probable), then they truly aren't taking the challenge seriously at all. Long term they might hack something that gives you a VR hangar experience. Maybe they'll get Arena Commander VR working. The Persistent Universe? The one with 100 Star Systems, 80+ ships, PG planets with flora, fauna, weather systems, potential earthquakes or volcanos that affect NPCs on those planets? The one with FPS action as good or better than Battlefield 4 or Arma? The one with procedurally generated destructible environments and all the rest that they've already promised? I don't think so...
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Mar 20, 2016 05:59
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Thoatse posted:
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Mar 20, 2016 06:02
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LoD supports 4k resolutions but some janky poo poo starts happening like judder judder judder when you run places
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Mar 20, 2016 06:10
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G0RF posted:I have an effort post -- intended for use elsewhere -- about why Star Citizen won't ever be VR compatible. I can send you an early copy if you think it will help. This is bigger than just the forced animations-- tho those will absolutely have to be removed completely (despite the fact that they are the duct tape of the gameplay contraption they've built. Five speeds of running acceleration is another no-no. It goes on. They continue to add immersive refinements that further preclude them from VR compatibility and the honest truth is, a drunken Chris telling a fan at Bar Citizen "when VR glasses are as small and light as that pair of glasses, then we'll do it" is tantamount to him conceding they can't be bothered... If you could post it once complete I'd greatly appreciate it. I don't understand game design, but this thread has taught me a lot about it.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:20
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Breetai posted:If you could post it once complete I'd greatly appreciate it. The thing is-- even people who understand game design often don't appreciate the paradigmatic shift that VR represents to game design. One thing I find very damning about CIG's approach is their consistently cavalier tone when discussing it. In contrast to Chris and Ben, you often see some of the brightest minds in the gaming industry speaking with abject humility about how little we all know about the possibilities of VR. How early it is, how difficult it is to even imagine where it might evolve in only a few years. Chet Faliszek posted:"We know a little bit,” he said. “But as we keep working and finding out more, we’ve seen how bad some of our ideas are. Don’t get me wrong. There’s a lot of cool stuff being done. But we’re still just scratching at the possibilities, and we haven’t found out what virtual reality really is." CIG's complete lack of humility about VR evidences either stupidity, dishonesty or both. In Ben's case it may really be ignorance. In Chris', well... G0RF fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 06:28
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Smorgasbord posted:They're really on the wrong track with my brother talking about needing 'faith' and talking about non-believers though, I can certainly work on that angle. lol, so culty.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:30
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mdxi posted:Star Citizen is the Donald Trump of video games. Star Citizen is here to make space sims great again!
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Mar 20, 2016 06:35
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Not seeing anyone in the 'verse atm, whats that poo poo all about?
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Mar 20, 2016 06:38
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Toops posted:This is a good idea, but instead of at the start of a level, there are going to be "Physics TransJankifier" power-ups floating around the level that will gently caress with physics for everyone except you for a short time. I have no idea how I'm gonna pull that one off but t's on the roadmap. A Smart bomb(c what I did) that when you fly through it unleashes a bellowing "LET ME loving FINISH!" And kills all enemies. If you had like, a wave system of baddies this could eliminate a wave.
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Mar 20, 2016 06:41
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Wise Learned Man posted:And then spit all over the cake. Cake which a crowd of backers watched him eat. Birthday cake. For a game that doesn't exist. link?
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Mar 20, 2016 07:10
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so this whole brother thing is not a meta troll?
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Mar 20, 2016 07:11
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Happy Sisyphus posted:so this whole brother thing is not a meta troll? Sadly, no.
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Mar 20, 2016 07:18
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Smorgasbord posted:Having it all play out on videos rather than text is quite cunning too since you're fighting a collective 'reimagining' of what was said rather than plain text you can pick apart. absolutely agree and its why i think the verbatim transcripts - rather than the abridged INN versions - of CIG videos are invaluable. i know there was a pastedump of heaps of jones' transcriptions, maybe refer to that? i think a scam citizen wikia might be tne best way to document a lot of this poo poo; video by video transcripts, along with gorfs excellent effortposts and anything else relevant. basically a vaguely organised dump ground while it gets sorted.
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Mar 20, 2016 07:20
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alf_pogs posted:absolutely agree and its why i think the verbatim transcripts - rather than the abridged INN versions - of CIG videos are invaluable. i know there was a pastedump of heaps of jones' transcriptions, maybe refer to that? There's a DoobiePedia, no reason why there can't be a ShitizenPedia.
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Mar 20, 2016 07:23
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skaboomizzy posted:There's a DoobiePedia, no reason why there can't be a ShitizenPedia. welp sounds like a good downtime work job for tomorrow for me
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Mar 20, 2016 07:26
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alf_pogs posted:welp sounds like a good downtime work job for tomorrow for me I think it would be helpful, everything's so murky from the volumes of CiG bullshit so a referenced source on some of the bigger issues could be really helpful in providing some clarity.
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Mar 20, 2016 07:37
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