|
oystertoadfish posted:i've only been to the eastern shore once, to this place for a marine biology thingy Turns out oysters are magic water factories, and also loving delicious! edit: uhhhhh, vote Lincoln I guess, a guy in a time machine said it'd totally be okay, this is 100% the last Civil War and it all turns out more or less all right, though he said something under his breath about flags and people in sheets before he left, dunno what that was about
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 07:15 |
|
|
Assuming Fremont did win in 1856 and the South seceded four years early, who would have had the amount of fame or popularity that Jefferson Davis had in 1860? Would the Confederate president still have been Davis?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
Andorra posted:Assuming Fremont did win in 1856 and the South seceded four years early, who would have had the amount of fame or popularity that Jefferson Davis had in 1860? Would the Confederate president still have been Davis? - .-. --- ..- .--. *smashes morse key* speaking of our man TROUP, his eponymous troup county in western ga voted 43% for trump. is this relevant? i would submit that it is edit: technically he died in april 1856 but i think the confederacy would've gone better if it had been run by A Racist Ghost also by 1856 there had probably already been half a dozen civil wars and probably for decades now they wouldve walled off washington dc while they ran a society based on their actual beliefs while writing bemused newspaper articles about our voting choices oystertoadfish has issued a correction as of 04:46 on Mar 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 04:44
|
|
|
foobardog posted:No, Lincoln is pretty drat awesome, even if his voice is high and reedy and not deep and stentorian as he's portrayed in modern times. I think Lincoln related media has turned the corner on that. Sam Waterston voiced him in the Ken Burns Civil War doc and played him in some TV movie. Daniel Day-Lewis also went with a fairly high voice.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 04:46
|
|
|
I need reassurances that this Mr. Lincoln is a "Free Mounter." The good President Fremont has established this as a core Republican value and I would hate to see our pillars so quickly eroded in this grand party's youth.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
I know we’re on to the election of 1860, but this cartoon is just too good not to share:
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
Are we going to get the chance to vote on the president of the CSA?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Are we going to get the chance to vote on the president of the CSA? well it'd have to be for the provisional president of the csa as no one opposed Davis in the actual election
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:22
|
|
|
You gotta write out the text I can't read this crazy writing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
Man from this and other examples in this thread, political cartoons used to be amazing... SpRahl has issued a correction as of 00:52 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
SpRahl posted:Man fro mthis and other examples in this thread, political cartoons used to be amazing... Going from Ben Franklin to Michael Ramirez and Mike Lester and A.F. Branco is probably to blame for the bullshit political discourse we see these days.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:51
|
|
|
Thump! posted:Going from Ben Franklin to Michael Ramirez and Mike Lester and A.F. Branco is probably to blame for the bullshit political discourse we see these days. Don't romanticize the past too much. There have always been shithead cartoonists and editorialists, and politics decided by stupid issues rather than important ones. Complex issues reduced down into catchphrases, and direct politicking through handouts and favoritism. Even Thomas Nast, sort of the father of modern political cartoons, made some lovely anti-popery and anti-Irish cartoons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:56
|
|
|
foobardog posted:Don't romanticize the past too much. There have always been shithead cartoonists and editorialists, and politics decided by stupid issues rather than important ones. Complex issues reduced down into catchphrases, and direct politicking through handouts and favoritism. Even Thomas Nast, sort of the father of modern political cartoons, made some lovely anti-popery and anti-Irish cartoons. I was being a little facetious with the importance of political cartooning (sorry Deep Hurting!) 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:59
|
|
|
For example: HORACE GREELY, NEW YORK LIAR: I assure you my friend, that you can safely vote our ticket, for we have no connection with the Abolition party, but our Platform is composed entirely of rails, split by our Candidate. SAGE AND WILY YOUNG AMERICA: It's no use old fellow! you can't pull that wool over my eyes for I can see the friend of the family' peeping through the rails. ABRAHAM LINCOLN, NAIVE PUPPET: Little did I think when I split these rails that they would be the means of elevating me to my present position. foobardog has issued a correction as of 01:03 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
foobardog posted:For example: An original Asay! 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:02
|
|
|
just rust posted:I need reassurances that this Mr. Lincoln is a "Free Mounter." The good President Fremont has established this as a core Republican value and I would hate to see our pillars so quickly eroded in this grand party's youth. well, lincoln's probably gonna gently caress the south  SlothfulCobra posted:Are we going to get the chance to vote on the president of the CSA? I would if Davis had any opposition! GlyphGryph posted:You gotta write out the text I can't read this crazy writing. I considered using this cartoon for the poll image in 1852. The text reads: HORACE GREELEY, NEW YORK TRIBUTE EDITOR (as horse under Fremont): "Monte why didn't you lean more on the wooly horse--you gave me all your weight--never mind we've beat the grey Filly [i.e., Fillmore] next time we'ill head off that hard old Buck." FREMONT (standing on Greeley and a horse labelled abolitionism): "Get out--hang you and the Wooly Horse--I could beat that broken down silver grey "Filly" and the old Buck too--had I gone on my own hook." FILLMORE (as a sickly horse): "Oh! Oh! why did'nt I stay in sweet Italy with my friend King Bomba and the lazy Neapolitans--Then I should not have been blowen up like a Bag of wind in this Chase." BUCHANAN (as valiant buck dear leading the race): "Never mind Gentn. I could not "help" beating you, the American Nation wished it so--I will send you all to Ostend--and I promise you that I will have no Tailors in my white House. [As a youth Fillmore had been apprenticed to a tailor.] Mercy on me! to think that this Glorious People should be almost Pierced to Death [a reference to unpopular Democratic incumbent Franklin Pierce] by War and making Free States in this land of Liberty by a set of Fashion inventores 'I'll none of it.'"
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:You gotta write out the text I can't read this crazy writing. It’s one thing if you don’t know that there’s a larger version than the timg‐expand (direct image link), but can kids these days not read handwritten printing? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:It’s one thing if you don’t know that there’s a larger version than the timg‐expand (direct image link), but can kids these days not read handwritten printing? It's not very good typography, honestly, pretty cluttered even for hand written letters, and too many drat words. Modern speech balloons are much more readable. e: Jesus, look how squished everything is, and why does it use italics throughout? foobardog has issued a correction as of 01:42 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
This one is inscrutable to me. I mean, moreso than usual
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
Nebakenezzer posted:This one is inscrutable to me. I mean, moreso than usual It's a reference to Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. In the play, Oberon, King of the Fairies, wants to steal Queen Titania's Indian servant, who is the child of one of Titania's beloved followers. By portraying Lincoln as Oberon and Virginia as Titania, the cartoonist is implying that Lincoln is unjustly trying to rob Virginia of its slaves, when all Virginia wants to do is raise it as a loving and benevolent master would. There was some discussion around this period about compensating the South for lost property if/when abolition occurred, with land being one of the possible payment methods. The cartoonist himself is British satirist John Tenniel, who you may also recognize as the illustrator of Alice and Wonderland. He had a wonderful whimsical style and regularly contributed political cartoons to the British magazine Punch. I recommend looking up some of his non-American-centric pieces if you have the time. His cartoons serve as a nice reminder of why Lincoln and others were so afraid of European intervention into the American Civil War. See if you can identify which side British elites were rooting for.  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13There's a running theme in Tennel's portfolio that the African Americans were somehow manipulating the Northern abolitionists into doing their bidding, or that the vast majority somehow prefered being slaves and only a few agitators really wanted freedom. These views were echoed by other British leaders, who considered intervening in the American Civil War to restore order and help the "uncivilized Americans" put their country back on the right path. QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 02:24 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
I wish I could vote for Hamlin/Lincoln instead of Lincoln/Hamlin. I like his fanaticism more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 02:24
|
|
|
As an aside, I believe that Tsar Alexander II was the only European leader who was even mildly sympathetic to Lincoln during the Civil War. While Queen Victoria hinted at destroying the Union blockade and Napoleon tried his hand at mediation between North and South, Russia sent their fleet to New York City and San Francisco to offer help with the blockade (and possibly to get the Russian fleet out of the Baltics so that it could seriously hurt the British merchant marine if war broke out). Alexander seems to have seen parallels between himself and Lincoln. Alexander had freed the serfs while Lincoln seemed intent on freeing the slaves. Alexander faced a rebellion in Poland while Lincoln faced a rebellion in the South. Both leaders were ridiculed by the other Great Powers and both leaders feared that a Confederate victory would play into British hands And, of course, both Lincoln and Alexander would later be struck down by assassins.  The history of Russian-American relations is weird.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 02:50
|
|
|
I am really excited, when we get into the late 60s, to see if anti-Oddfellowism replaces anti-Freemasonry as the elite boogeymen, since there was a string of like four presidents in a row who were Oddfellows.
GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 14:02 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 05:05
|
|
|
Sounds like the British are indignant at the audacity of these backwater people getting so involved in their own stupid politics and war. I can't say I understand what they're so riled up about, the south's supply of cotton being cut off was countered by the Egypt having a bumper crop.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 06:40
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:As an aside, I believe that Tsar Alexander II was the only European leader who was even mildly sympathetic to Lincoln during the Civil War. While Queen Victoria hinted at destroying the Union blockade and Napoleon tried his hand at mediation between North and South, Russia sent their fleet to New York City and San Francisco to offer help with the blockade (and possibly to get the Russian fleet out of the Baltics so that it could seriously hurt the British merchant marine if war broke out). Alexander seems to have seen parallels between himself and Lincoln. Alexander had freed the serfs while Lincoln seemed intent on freeing the slaves. Alexander faced a rebellion in Poland while Lincoln faced a rebellion in the South. Both leaders were ridiculed by the other Great Powers and both leaders feared that a Confederate victory would play into British hands I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the Russian fleet in San Francisco didn’t do much to help the blockade. Maybe we should take another look at their ulterior motives.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 06:48
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the Russian fleet in San Francisco didn’t do much to help the blockade. Maybe we should take another look at their ulterior motives. there was actually a confederate raider that made its way up to Alaska and captured a decent chunk of the American whaling fleet
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 07:01
|
|
|
^the confederate navy, or privateers or whatever, was pretty daring and derring-do and the brits did a lot for them by basically flagrantly illegally building and selling the ships to a government they didn't recognize there's a loving awesome bit of parliamentary ownage that one of the guys that actually comes off fairly well to 21st-century eyes from this era, john bright, perpetrated upon a pro-southern dude. you can read the whole drat thing here. it's not the kind of thing i can really quote here but the ownage is intense. hansard is some of the best reading the world's produced, if you're willing to patiently probe around until you find the gold but i found out about that from reading the education of henry adams which is one of the best books ever written by an american, because henry adams was really introspective, really smart, deeply and hilariously racist, and a very good writer. he also happened to be his dad's personal secretary when dad was ambassador to great britain during the civil war, and this is what he had to say about the debate of june 30, 1863: http://www.bartleby.com/159/12.html quote:Never was there a moment when eccentricity, if it were a force, should have had more value to the rebel interest; and the managers must have thought so, for they adopted or accepted as their champion an eccentric of eccentrics; a type of 1820; a sort of Brougham of Sheffield, notorious for poor judgment and worse temper. Mr. Roebuck had been a tribune of the people, and, like tribunes of most other peoples, in growing old, had grown fatuous. He was regarded by the friends of the Union as rather a comical personage,—a favorite subject for Punch to laugh at,—with a bitter tongue and a mind enfeebled even more than common by the political epidemic of egotism. In all England they could have found no opponent better fitted to give away his own case. No American man of business would have paid him attention; yet. the Lairds, who certainly knew their own affairs best, let Roebuck represent them and take charge of their interests. a little wordy, i guess, but i love that poo poo SlothfulCobra posted:Sounds like the British are indignant at the audacity of these backwater people getting so involved in their own stupid politics and war. I can't say I understand what they're so riled up about, the south's supply of cotton being cut off was countered by the Egypt having a bumper crop. it was a bluff at first, they got hosed by losing their access, but by 1865 egypt and india had pretty much picked up the slack and the south looked like chumps. then by 1870, contrary to literally everyone's expectations, the south was already growing more cotton than it had in 1860. in practically no time at all, modern capitalism had turned not only '''free''' ('scare' quotes in scare quotes themselves, so deep do the ironies go) blacks but the poor whites, who had been proud dirt-scratching subsistence farmers before, into indebted tenants whose only salable crop, despite the glutted market and falling prices, was cotton. to emulate the white dirt farmers had been the great ambition of the freed slaves - instead they both became wage slaves and cotton regained its throne, replacing the whip and property law with the loan and finance law i bet somea yall think the good times are about to come. there are no good times! as a great virginian once said, 'welcome to america and the real world' oystertoadfish has issued a correction as of 07:31 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 07:18
|
|
|
oystertoadfish posted:i bet somea yall think the good times are about to come. there are no good times! as a great virginian once said, 'welcome to america and the real world' Hey, after we elect Lincoln we'll finally be past the era of people successfully campaigning on the platform of being ignorant dullards who can't be bothered to have an opinion on the most important issue of their era. Also goon voters will be less predictable after slavery's over, which'll be more interesting at least.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 14:37
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Hey, after we elect Lincoln we'll finally be past the era of people successfully campaigning on the platform of being ignorant dullards who can't be bothered to have an opinion on the most important issue of their era. 1876 through 1892 will be really interesting for me. It's the longest string of elections where I am not sure who will win.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
oystertoadfish posted:^the confederate navy, or privateers or whatever, was pretty daring and derring-do and the brits did a lot for them by basically flagrantly illegally building and selling the ships to a government they didn't recognize I laughed. "...Nor do I agree with the hon. and learned Member for Sheffield when he says that the American Union had become so vast and so menacing to the world, that we were in danger of dwindling beside it, or of experiencing a defect of power to maintain our rights. I do not think that territorial extension necessarily adds to the vigour of a State. I do not admit that either England or France, or any other country of Europe, had lost, or was relatively losing, strength in comparison with the United States of America..." 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:1876 through 1892 will be really interesting for me. It's the longest string of elections where I am not sure who will win. It's also a period of pretty ineffectual Presidents too, isn't it? Like they don't start doing anything worthwhile again until we get McKinley calling for the blood of Spanish infants or whatever the papers were saying.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 16:40
|
|
|
Thump! posted:It's also a period of pretty ineffectual Presidents too, isn't it? Like they don't start doing anything worthwhile again until we get McKinley calling for the blood of Spanish infants or whatever the papers were saying. Yes. The Gilded Age marks a low-point in Presidential power and political vitality. The Presidents are forgettable and the parties rally around the same issues. Cleveland is the only possible exception.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 16:44
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:Yes. The Gilded Age marks a low-point in Presidential power and political vitality. The Presidents are forgettable and the parties rally around the same issues. Garfield could've done great things for African-Americans if he haden't been shot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:02
|
|
|
Nckdictator posted:Garfield could've done great things for African-Americans if he haden't been shot. The same could be said of Lincoln I guess 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:03
|
|
|
Thump! posted:It's also a period of pretty ineffectual Presidents too, isn't it? Like they don't start doing anything worthwhile again until we get McKinley calling for the blood of Spanish infants or whatever the papers were saying. That's why they called it the Gilded Age. Actually, the official Gilded Age was even longer--1868 to 1901. Ironically, McKinley catching a bullet at the Pan-American Exposition was probably the primary reason why it ended. The Presidents of the time were weaker because a great deal of power had been ceded back to Congress after what was viewed as Lincoln's "overreaches" during the Civil War. Reconstruction ended in failure after that disaster of an election in 1876, when Hayes sold Southern blacks up the river so Tilden wouldn't contest the election, and the South settled into a comfortable Jim Crow routine for the next ~100 years. The Senate during that time was perhaps more indolent and obstructionist than the modern Senate. Fritz Coldcockin has issued a correction as of 17:07 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:04
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:That's why they called it the Gilded Age. Actually, the official Gilded Age was even longer--1868 to 1901. Ironically, Leon Czolgosz's bullet was probably the primary reason why it ended. True. I do love the thought of the New York Republicans nominating TR for VP just to get him out of their hair and lol whoops he's now the President.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
Nckdictator posted:Garfield could've done great things for African-Americans if he haden't been shot. Garfield was unironically cool and his memorial is near my childhood home. Unfortunately, it was built in the 1890s and is covered in swastikas. (Best picture I could find:)  The structure itself looks like a tomb for a saint or an emperor. His coffin is displayed permanently in repose. QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 17:18 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
Thump! posted:True. I do love the thought of the New York Republicans nominating TR for VP just to get him out of their hair and lol whoops he's now the President. No wonder Mark Hanna is Karl Rove's hero--they both melt down when they see their carefully constructed facade crumble in the face of reality. Hanna was McKinley's campaign manager (or what passed for one in 1900) and the suggestion to put Roosevelt on the ticket in 1900 was made because a) the previous guy, Garrett Hobart, died, and b) he was pissing off the party bosses in New York so much. When McKinley died, Hanna said "Now look--that damned cowboy is President of the United States!" If you want a modern-day equivalent, imagine Clinton winning the primary in 2008, putting Obama on the ticket to shut his supporters up, and then having her drop dead a year into her first term. But there was nothing about the Gilded Age that wasn't horrible, except Chester Arthur's mutton chops. The income gap between rich and poor widened to almost cartoonish levels, politicians became orders of magnitude more corrupt, the issues of the day were literally incapable of dividing the candidates (except on the issue of the Bonus Army in 1888), and the southern conservatives in the Senate--mostly Democrats--made sure that no legislation of any consequence was passed. The lack of labor laws made working conditions completely intolerable--if you think the job market now is bad, imagine what it was like when the only job you could get was in a filthy, unregulated meatpacking plant in Chicago where the chances of you making into the next batch of ground chuck were about 50/50. It is, no lie, one of the most shameful eras in our history, because it was when we as a people were the MOST disengaged with the process. Fritz Coldcockin has issued a correction as of 17:20 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
QuoProQuid posted:1876 through 1892 will be really interesting for me. It's the longest string of elections where I am not sure who will win. I think it's pretty clear what direction SA's going to go in 1876. Hayes was a shitbag who ended Reconstruction and turned a blind eye to the South's suppression of African-American political rights in return for being handed the presidency, and the Democrats were involved in widespread voter intimidation against African-Americans, but Peter Cooper of the Greenback party was in favor of fiat currency, breaking up monopolies, labor rights, and Native American rights. Plus he had a glorious beard.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 07:15 |
|
|
Alter Ego posted:The Senate during that time was perhaps more indolent and obstructionist than the modern Senate. Jesus, that's saying a lot. Alter Ego posted:That's why they called it the Gilded Age. Actually, the official Gilded Age was even longer--1868 to 1901. Ironically, McKinley catching a bullet at the Pan-American Exposition was probably the primary reason why it ended. e: I imagine most people ITT already know this, but the term Gilded Age was apt coinage. Shiny on the outside, poo poo underneath. Nebakenezzer has issued a correction as of 18:43 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 18:40
|
|