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hackbunny posted:I wonder sometimes if traps are how "political homosexuality" is manifesting in the alt-right. Commentators have wondered for a long time why they won't go gay if women are so terrible, like women went lesbian in protest in the past, and I say, but they are going gay. Just an idea though because I haven't set foot in 4chan or any of its offshoots in years, so I don't know what they have mutated into
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Mar 29, 2016 09:44
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I always figured any effects like that were due to latent bisexuality being expressed.
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Mar 29, 2016 09:52
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Cingulate posted:Do you have any evidence that people can actually "go gay"? Because from all what we see, there is remarkably little plasticity in what sex one is attracted to. Don't be so literal
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Mar 29, 2016 10:34
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Nessus posted:I always figured any effects like that were due to latent bisexuality being expressed. hackbunny posted:Don't be so literal
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Mar 29, 2016 10:39
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Cingulate posted:Do you have any evidence that people can actually "go gay"? Because from all what we see, there is remarkably little plasticity in what sex one is attracted to. I swear to the god I don't believe in that a couple of months ago I saw this NY times article that talked about some recent study suggesting that " all women are 'at least' bisexual" Maybe it was some other site, but I swear to god I saw that. Not that this undermines your point though, one study doesn't make a supported theory
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Mar 29, 2016 10:42
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hackbunny posted:Don't be so literal Cingulate posted:I went from you saying "people go gay" to saying, people don't usually "go gay". How could I possibly respond to this
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Mar 29, 2016 10:52
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:I swear to the god I don't believe in that a couple of months ago I saw this NY times article that talked about some recent study suggesting that " all women are 'at least' bisexual" I'm not actually opposed to the idea that one can show some development regarding being more or less attracted to (if one is mainly a man interested in rather stereotypical women) stereotypically feminine men. I just think saying there is substantial potential for people to "go gay" is not there. Iirc the consensus is also that there is little overlap between the typical man who has sex with men (to the extent that there is such a thing) and men who are into women and also into men who dress and act feminine. Like, these are two clusters with little overlap. Again, I don't have good sources here either though.
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Mar 29, 2016 10:53
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Forced Gay By A Moldbug
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Mar 29, 2016 11:55
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Forced Gay By A Moldbug Man that's the best Star Wars Paperback imo
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Mar 29, 2016 12:20
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I posit that the phrase "going native" is a nonsense because a foreigner can't be native by the very definition of the respective terms, furthermore *massive wet fart*
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Mar 29, 2016 12:27
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Nessus posted:I always figured any effects like that were due to latent bisexuality being expressed. That's always been my assumption. If you go by Kinsey* absolute heterosexuals are fairly rare. *Dated I know, but there's a dearth of good studies AFAIK.
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Mar 29, 2016 12:43
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There was a Psych Sci article recently arguing that homosexuality and heterosexuality are actually not so much a gradient, as clusters: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/26/12/1843.abstract I didn't really read it closely.
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Mar 29, 2016 12:57
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Cingulate posted:I actually have no intuitions on women. I don't think gay women have as extensive of a history of attempts of reeducation, cures, or straight out trying to murder them as gay men, so the hardest data - that people show homosexual behavior much beyond what rationality would lead one to do were this drive significantly plastic - is not there. "Corrective rape." No, don't google it. 
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Mar 29, 2016 13:50
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atomicgeek posted:"Corrective rape." No, don't google it.
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Mar 29, 2016 13:53
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Cingulate Forced My Thread Gay
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Mar 29, 2016 14:14
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Cingulate Forced My Thread Gay To be fair, half of that was hackbunny.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:08
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divabot posted:This is related to a current discussion on rationalist Tumblr: ozymandias271 suspects a lot of closeted trans people end up there, and figures advertising to them would be a good idea. They did QALY calculations and everything. The trans people in the thread (which includes Ozy) mostly considered this a not inherently terrible idea, on the basis that it would actually have helped them when they were on 4chan. Bringing this back up for a moment, I was talking to ~MY GIRLFRIEND~ about it this morning (who happens to be trans) and she still talks to people who frequent 4chan a lot. Apparently the /lgbt/ board is actually not terrible and they already had this idea and even have a name for the closeted / in denial transpeople who lurk the traps threads ("egg mode", she has no idea why).
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Mar 29, 2016 15:27
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Bringing this back up for a moment, I was talking to ~MY GIRLFRIEND~ about it this morning (who happens to be trans) and she still talks to people who frequent 4chan a lot. Apparently the /lgbt/ board is actually not terrible and they already had this idea and even have a name for the closeted / in denial transpeople who lurk the traps threads ("egg mode", she has no idea why). Well let's check that out for ourselves, shall we? I wonder what I'll find if I go there right now and look at the very first thread.  No, I think I'm gonna go ahead and call your girlfriend wrong
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Mar 29, 2016 15:40
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Wanamingo posted:Well let's check that out for ourselves, shall we? I wonder what I'll find if I go there right now and look at the very first thread.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:08
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Small Frozen Thing posted:To be fair, half of that was hackbunny. Someone (Parallel Paraplegic?) theorized that the obsession with "traps" stems from the idea of creating women untainted by innate "dirty" femininity, and I was trying to agree with him. I don't think the alt right is entirely composed of 100% heterosexual men as commonly assumed, I think they have a certain degree of variance, that tends to manifest in unique unhealthy identities like "trap" (the tumblr left doesn't have a monopoly on unique unhealthy identities) because everything has to be framed in a certain ideology
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Mar 29, 2016 16:14
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There are a lot of gay guys among the alt right.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:56
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Terrible Opinions posted:There are a lot of gay guys among the alt right. Remind me, who was that guy who advocated that massively homophobic gay-separatist ideology based on the (heavily fictionalised) example of the Spartans?
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Mar 29, 2016 16:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, who was that guy who advocated that massively homophobic gay-separatist ideology based on the (heavily fictionalised) example of the Spartans?
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Mar 29, 2016 17:09
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You're thinking of Jack Donovan
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Mar 29, 2016 17:29
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hackbunny posted:Someone (Parallel Paraplegic?) theorized that the obsession with "traps" stems from the idea of creating women untainted by innate "dirty" femininity, and I was trying to agree with him. I don't think the alt right is entirely composed of 100% heterosexual men as commonly assumed, I think they have a certain degree of variance, that tends to manifest in unique unhealthy identities like "trap" (the tumblr left doesn't have a monopoly on unique unhealthy identities) because everything has to be framed in a certain ideology And I'm saying that's a ridiculous hypothesis born of lack of familiarity with the communities involved. "Trap" is a 4chan thing, it has nothing to do with the alt-right and everything to do with channers. There is overlap between those groups, but that's the only connecting point. I know in person a pretty hardcore leftist and ex-4chan refugee who refers to themselves as a "trap", because they are genderqueer and extremely effeminate while still identifying as male.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:29
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The reason "traps" are so popular on 4chan in general is because they are attractive to the mostly-heterosexual men who post there, and are male, thus creating an allure of the "forbidden" or "exotic." In a similar way, very strong and muscular women are also popular on some parts of the site and offshoots. It's pretty much as complex as that.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:47
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Small Frozen Thing posted:The reason "traps" are so popular on 4chan in general is because they are attractive to the mostly-heterosexual men who post there, and are male, thus creating an allure of the "forbidden" or "exotic." In a similar way, very strong and muscular women are also popular on some parts of the site and offshoots. It's pretty much as complex as that.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:50
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Wanamingo posted:Well let's check that out for ourselves, shall we? I wonder what I'll find if I go there right now and look at the very first thread. I think I might have interpreted her wrong initially, asking her about /lgbt/ just now she said "oh yeah it's kinda horrible"  I guess I sort of assumed a lot of transpeople wouldn't hang out there if it was so trans hostile but I guess the *chan's "culture" (if you can call it that) has some weird magnetism on a lot of people. I have friends myself who go to 8chan (and even /pol/) and fully acknowledge that it's 90% gamergators or pedos or DE weirdos or literal Nazis but still go because... actually I'm really not sure. The only person who's ever really answered said "they're very creative."  Cingulate posted:Most likely, PP's girlfriend has a more informed and important, or at least not inferior, perspective to yours. Well like I said she's friends with several people who go there often and are also trans, so her perspective comes from people who have already applied the mental filtering that most 4chan frequenters innately, automatically apply. Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, who was that guy who advocated that massively homophobic gay-separatist ideology based on the (heavily fictionalised) example of the Spartans? Actually there's several people who match that description afaik, I mentioned it in this thread once in the past - there's a bunch of gay right-wing "activists" who are in a weird place where they've accepted that they're gay but not that gender norms are invalid so they reject gay marriage and only want to have gruff manly man sex with gruff manly men.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:58
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Small Frozen Thing posted:The reason "traps" are so popular on 4chan in general is because they are attractive to the mostly-heterosexual men who post there, and are male, thus creating an allure of the "forbidden" or "exotic." In a similar way, very strong and muscular women are also popular on some parts of the site and offshoots. It's pretty much as complex as that. Cingulate posted:I keep being astonished by how confident a lot of people in here are, especially on topics presumably rather foreign to them. It's pretty well known that there's a lot of people who consider themselves to be 100% completely heterosexual on 4chan who find traps attractive but insist it's 100% completely straight because they have a "girly dick" or something. Like it's common enough to give rise to several memes. EDIT: wait Cingulate is agreeing with someone here I am not used to that and thought I needed to make a counterpoint Shame Boy has a new favorite as of 18:07 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 18:05
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:It's pretty well known that there's a lot of people who consider themselves to be 100% completely heterosexual on 4chan who find traps attractive but insist it's 100% completely straight because they have a "girly dick" or something. Like it's common enough to give rise to several memes. His overwhelming desire to be a devil's advocate turns out to be right when people actually are making ridiculous over-reaching theories.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:16
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:It's pretty well known that there's a lot of people who consider themselves to be 100% completely heterosexual on 4chan who find traps attractive but insist it's 100% completely straight because they have a "girly dick" or something. Like it's common enough to give rise to several memes. I wasn't trying to agree (again). I'm sorry to disappoint. I'm saying: if you claim to have understood special, or any, sexual behavior, and if it seems not complex to you, maybe you should slow down. We probably haven't understood it, and it's probably weirder than we can imagine.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:22
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I was saying that it wasn't some bizarre right-wing take on "political lesbianism" and almost certainly the other thing, source: i spent years on 4chan and have spent my entire childhood and most of my adulthood trying to research gender and sexuality, jesus christ why did i ever think for a second you weren't an annoying piece of poo poo
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Mar 29, 2016 18:29
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Small Frozen Thing posted:I was saying that it wasn't some bizarre right-wing take on "political lesbianism" and almost certainly the other thing, source: i spent years on 4chan and have spent my entire childhood and most of my adulthood trying to research gender and sexuality, jesus christ why did i ever think for a second you weren't an annoying piece of poo poo That's cool. Or are you just saying you watch a lot of porn?
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Mar 29, 2016 18:32
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Small Frozen Thing posted:I was saying that it wasn't some bizarre right-wing take on "political lesbianism" and almost certainly the other thing What other outlets for intimacy are left for them though?
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Mar 29, 2016 18:32
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Cingulate posted:... You're a sexologist? I'm a highschool dropout with autism so severe I couldn't speak until I was 8 That still makes me significantly more qualified to speak on matters of human behavior and sexuality than you
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Mar 29, 2016 18:34
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hackbunny posted:What other outlets for intimacy are left for them though? Hentai. No joke.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:35
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Cingulate posted:... You're a sexologist? yes
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Mar 29, 2016 18:43
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Cingulate posted:I keep learning I'm a terrible writer here. Nobody's claiming to understand sexual behavior at a core innate level, it's just that there are people who loudly announce that "I am straight but drat that's a hot ladyboner" which is more straightforward than the idea that it's popularity is driven by woman-haters trying to find untainted women to gently caress or whatever. Not saying they can't both be right (or wrong), but the first is at the very least the answer accepted by the actual group we're talking about. Saying "yes but is it really?! science just doesn't know!" isn't really helpful in this situation even though yes, I agree that is the case.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:46
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Cingulate posted:I keep being astonished by how confident a lot of people in here are, especially on topics presumably rather foreign to them. What life experiences could possibly have convinced you that feigned surprise does anything but alienate and disgust people who read it? Every time you shitpost like this, you reach a new height in completely useless self-aggrandizement. "Oh poor me, last holder of the twin ancient secrets of empathy and appropriate confidence!". It communicates nothing but your unshakeable belief in your superiority to everyone else in the thread. Thank you for helping me realize why some spaces ban feigning surprise, now pease try to be less than utterly repulsive.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:49
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Doc Hawkins posted:What life experiences could possibly have convinced you that feigned surprise does anything but alienate and disgust people who read it? Every time you shitpost like this, you reach a new height in completely useless self-aggrandizement. "Oh poor me, last holder of the twin ancient secrets of empathy and appropriate confidence!". It communicates nothing but your unshakeable belief in your superiority to everyone else in the thread. Parallel Paraplegic posted:Nobody's claiming to understand sexual behavior at a core innate level, it's just that there are people who loudly announce that "I am straight but drat that's a hot ladyboner" which is more straightforward than the idea that it's popularity is driven by woman-haters trying to find untainted women to gently caress or whatever. Not saying they can't both be right (or wrong), but the first is at the very least the answer accepted by the actual group we're talking about. Saying "yes but is it really?! science just doesn't know!" isn't really helpful in this situation even though yes, I agree that is the case. 
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Mar 29, 2016 18:51
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