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Maybe they could integrate an OLED display directly into the glass: KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Every Tesla has had a stupid design gimmick that has needlessly complicated production and not created any benefits for the end user of the car. So Tesla is the Seiko of cars, basically?
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Apr 4, 2016 16:29
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Jealous Cow posted:The HUD in my M4 has absolutely ruined me. I don't think I would buy another car that can't at least display speed and nav info in the HUD. HUD is something I would love to have in my next car, just for the comfort of never having to take my eyes off the road. Cruise control is obviously nice for that as well, but I'd love to have both.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:32
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kimbo305 posted:I've had cars with it, and it's not perfect, even with adjustment. If you're trying to use the whole plastic dash as a screen instead of just the glass, there's more problems to solve, chiefly how much more warped the dash is, but also how to get enough reflected light without using a high power projector. This is only a problem for beancounters.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:33
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I like HUDs, I think they're a great idea, but I've yet to see one executed well. Instead of a minimalist display, projected up at the horizon line where you're actually looking, with information off to the sides, they're always centered, way too low, and super dense, with lots of big block lettering, in a relatively small space, to make the projector smaller.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:58
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mobby_6kl posted:Maybe they could integrate an OLED display directly into the glass: 10% of the cars cost is the windshield.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:58
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I am so here for some kind of really cool windshield-display technology, and I really hope that's what Musk is hinting at. Give me all the gimmicks. If I wanted some boring incremental improvement I'd be in line for a Bolt.
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Apr 4, 2016 18:37
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Elephanthead posted:The cost of the extras like auto pilot, super charger port, onboard charger options, AC and speedometers is going to be hilarious. The melt downs are going to be glorious. When does official pricing get released? Elon said supercharging will be standard, but you also seem to think AC will be an additional option on a $35k car in TYOOL 2017, so... I would imagine autopilot will be similarly priced as it is on the S/X, and he's said the dual motor option will be less than on S.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:01
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I'm really hoping that autopilot is $1000 or $1500 instead of $2500 to keep in line with the cost of a Model 3 vs a Model S but honestly I'll probably still get it regardless. I'd probably not get some other option I kinda wanted if it's the full $2500 though.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:05
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You can get it at anytime I presume, as it's just a software patch? It's going to be interesting to see how the AC actually works, if it stays as that one slot one of the engineers mentioned on a drive video. Assuming they're going to have directional control over the airflows and stuff.
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Apr 4, 2016 20:57
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Are there going to be Tesla  that unlock various features now?
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Apr 4, 2016 21:11
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El Grillo posted:You can get it at anytime I presume, as it's just a software patch? It'd be much better to purchase it as an option to a) bump oneself up higher on the production list and b) not pay it all at once but as part of your financing. I know I'd rather shell out $30/mo or whatever than come up with an additional up to $2500 soon after paying a huge down payment, and in my case, autopilot is one of the big reasons I want a Tesla and not a 2018 Leaf or a Bolt or whatever Nissan is up to with the rumors that they're making another EV line.
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Apr 4, 2016 21:32
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borkencode posted:Elon said supercharging will be standard, He said supercharging would be standard, but the PowerPoint slide behind him and the official model 3 website both say "supercharging capability" is standard. It sounds like the hardware to enable supercharging will be standard, but they haven't decided yet if unlimited supercharging will be automatically included with every car, or will be an additional upgrade cost, or even if they go to a pay-per-use model.
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Apr 4, 2016 21:32
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OldSenileGuy posted:He said supercharging would be standard, but the PowerPoint slide behind him and the official model 3 website both say "supercharging capability" is standard. Yeah, from a Tesla rep (via Reddit): "All Model 3 will have the capability for Supercharging. We haven't specified (and aren't right now) whether supercharging will be free." E: an analysis from Quora, including some quotes from Elon about the economics from last year: https://www.quora.com/How-can-Tesla-afford-to-offer-drivers-free-charging-for-life/answer/Bruce-Achterberg Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 21:47
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Yeah I think they're hedging their bets but it may be even more obnoxious and expensive to come up with a billing system to dole out supercharging at $5-10/pop even if, after initial construction costs, they actually net a small amount of cash from the solar panels and just letting people use it for free is good for the brand and a selling point of the car, though with how many Model 3s they will probably sell and how many more will be (car-)broke assholes who might be making heavier use of free charging it may make sense to not make it free to avoid them being crowded or overused. I wouldn't be surprised if they're considering tying it to your Tesla account and therefore to the car, and you can just keep payment on file so it just charges your account when you plug it in to keep it from becoming a huge hassle on both ends. They could also give you $X amount of charging credit, maybe even a few hundred dollars, intended to last a user through what they realistically expect occasional use should be throughout the lifetime of the car, and only charge if you go over that. Seems to me that'd be the fairest way to solve the supercharger abuse issue. How do those things store all that goddamned electricity anyway? Do they just bury a shitton of batteries akin to the ones they use in the cars?
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Apr 4, 2016 22:39
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They'd have lots of billing options given the VIN from the handshake and a credit card on file, including things like "> 50 miles from billing address is free", or per charge, or per kWh, or some frequency based thing (1 credit/week capped at 30, after that $$). The big issue for them will be availability, not economics. It's not uncommon for the supercharger near me to have 3 or 4 cars waiting in line at noon on a Saturday; often a 30-45min wait, which effectively doubles charging time.Boten Anna posted:How do those things store all that goddamned electricity anyway? Do they just bury a shitton of batteries akin to the ones they use in the cars? Yeah, I think like the powerwalls.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:12
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Boten Anna posted:
They dont store anything do they? They just take AC from the grid, convert it to DC and pump it into the batteries.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:22
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Yeah one of the most annoying things about having an EV right now is having to sign up for like 10 piddly networks for $3-5 charges and I swear half the time I use a new location there's something wrong and I end up on the phone with billing support. Since the Tesla plug has a data connection, it could be a LOT less obnoxious, especially if there is automatic free credit or even some kind of connection to your financing so you can pay with your regular car note. Basically literally anything other than verifying an account at the time you're trying to plug in the car is better than the current systems which are super obnoxious. e: D C posted:They dont store anything do they? They just take AC from the grid, convert it to DC and pump it into the batteries. There's no way in gently caress-hell that solar panels that reportedly are a net generator can produce enough electricity live as all charging stations are in a full kick; I don't even think they could pull that much from the grid without issues. There has to be some kind of energy storage mechanism; Li-ions are almost certainly what they're using.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:24
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Boten Anna posted:How do those things store all that goddamned electricity anyway? Do they just bury a shitton of batteries akin to the ones they use in the cars? Sell it to the grid?
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Apr 4, 2016 23:24
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D C posted:They dont store anything do they? They just take AC from the grid, convert it to DC and pump it into the batteries. The ones described by Elon and apparently prototyped in a couple places in California are "peaker plants", and have solar collectors as well as batteries. Boten Anna posted:Since the Tesla plug has a data connection, it could be a LOT less obnoxious, especially if there is automatic free credit or even some kind of connection to your financing so you can pay with your regular car note. Of course, I doubt that the handshake cryptographically verifies the provided VIN, so we'd not be very long waiting for a little adaptor that bills everything to Elon's account.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:24
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Subjunctive posted:
Now now, this is a Tesla not a Leaf SV/SL 
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Apr 4, 2016 23:29
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Boten Anna posted:There's no way in gently caress-hell that solar panels that reportedly are a net generator can produce enough electricity live as all charging stations are in a full kick; I don't even think they could pull that much from the grid without issues. There has to be some kind of energy storage mechanism; Li-ions are almost certainly what they're using. I agree that it's unlikely the solar panels are generating enough to run all of the chargers at once, but the grid can certainly handle it. 340v @ 60 amps is not that huge of a draw when you compare to industrial users. The only type of user I've ever heard of needing to actually arrange with the utility before they fire up is an electric arc furnace, but that's easily pulling over 200 MW.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:42
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:I agree that it's unlikely the solar panels are generating enough to run all of the chargers at once, but the grid can certainly handle it. 340v @ 60 amps is not that huge of a draw when you compare to industrial users. quote:For those of a technical bent, here’s how a typical Supercharger (in this case, the one at Port St Lucie, FL) is configured: the eight bay setup, like the one shown on the first page of this chapter, takes a 12 kV, 750 kVA feed from the Utility, steps it down to 480V three phase on site, pushes that into 2000A switchgear which feeds four banks of Supercharger (SC) units (one for each pair of “pods”) at 480V/200A. Each unit contains twelve 10 kW rectifiers (the same “charger” that is found in Model S) giving a total of 120 kW per pair of pods. That's also why you charge faster if the twin charger (1A v 1B) is empty. I think it also load-balances within the pair to give preference to the battery that's least charged.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:47
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Subjunctive posted:
Teslas are connected, the Supercharger can just ask from the car over the internet if it is connected to that station.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:52
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Saukkis posted:Teslas are connected, the Supercharger can just ask from the car over the internet if it is connected to that station. My experience is that this connection isn't reliable. When charging at the Mountain View SC, for example, my app can't contact the car because the cell service is so bad that the car doesn't even get EDGE. If that kept me from charging during a road trip I would say unkind things on Twitter.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:54
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Do Teslas' connection use 4G? Or are they only on 3G? 3G had nice speeds but I found it way less reliable than 2G/EDGE overall. I hope the Model 3 at least uses 4G, as it will probably be way more reliable, especially as Band 12/700 MHz areas have ridiculously good and wide coverage.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:22
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Subjunctive posted:The ones described by Elon and apparently prototyped in a couple places in California are "peaker plants", and have solar collectors as well as batteries.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:26
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Subjunctive posted:That's also why you charge faster if the twin charger (1A v 1B) is empty. I think it also load-balances within the pair to give preference to the battery that's least charged. Please change the thread title to "anticipation / speculation / electrocution thread", mods.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:33
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Boten Anna posted:Do Teslas' connection use 4G? Or are they only on 3G? Model S was 3G-only initially but has supported LTE in hardware since some time in early 2015, the software was updated to enable it some time later. Apparently there's an upgrade program for older vehicles. It's a safe bet that all future vehicles will be LTE-capable.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:41
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Subjunctive posted:Of course, I doubt that the handshake cryptographically verifies the provided VIN
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Apr 5, 2016 08:08
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Collateral Damage posted:Why not? Doing cryptographic authentication of data is trivial, and there's no reason not to do it. I don't think I'd agree that remote attestation/DAA is trivial. The reason not to do it is complexity in both the car and charger side (measurement chain on the car, key/cert management on the car and charger, etc.). Does the charging controller in the vehicle even have secure key storage or TPM?
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Apr 5, 2016 10:55
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My leaf was 2g and the network is getting turned off. Can't wait for model 3s to occupy all superchargers permanently.
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Apr 5, 2016 11:45
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Subjunctive posted:I don't think I'd agree that remote attestation/DAA is trivial. The reason not to do it is complexity in both the car and charger side (measurement chain on the car, key/cert management on the car and charger, etc.). Does the charging controller in the vehicle even have secure key storage or TPM?
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Apr 5, 2016 12:16
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Collateral Damage posted:I don't think you need to overthink it. You could easily adapt ISO 14443 for this purpose, and I assume the charging stations are connected to a data network anyway so key propagation isn't a logistical problem. How does 14443 help? Isn't it just the transmission protocol? I didn't think it made any guarantees about the authenticity of the data.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:11
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Subjunctive posted:How does 14443 help? Isn't it just the transmission protocol? I didn't think it made any guarantees about the authenticity of the data. My point is that secure identification over short range wireless isn't exactly bleeding edge tech nowadays, and not expensive to implement. Actually the Superchargers must already uniquely identify each car. Otherwise how could they send specific people messages to stop abusing superchargers as mentioned previously?
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Apr 5, 2016 14:27
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Collateral Damage posted:Actually the Superchargers must already uniquely identify each car. Otherwise how could they send specific people messages to stop abusing superchargers as mentioned previously? Oh, they do the handshake. I'm just not sure that they do it in a way that's hard to spoof, since there hasn't been much motivation for anyone to spoof it yet. It's by no means impossible, but I don't think it's trivial to do properly (off-line, revocation). If it doesn't have to work off-line then it's much easier, but I suspect it does.
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Apr 5, 2016 14:38
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Do the cars themselves have any way of disabling the LTE or otherwise preventing them from phoning home? If not, then all supercharger tracking can be done car side, i.e. every night when the car phones home it reports "today charged for 1 hour at supercharger X, y, and z." Then you wouldn't need to worry about encryption between the car and the SC or any of that other stuff.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:29
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There IS a data link in the Tesla charging specification, in a wire that connects when you plug in the charger, there's no way in hell the superchargers aren't using that.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:31
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So Tesla missed its delivery targets for Q1 - 14,820 vs. 16,000 expected. In Q4 2015 they delivered 17,478 cars. Seems they've had more Model X part shortages as they only made 2,400 in the quarter. They're saying they are now up to 750 model X's per week though. If they manage to keep up that weekly rate then that could be about 9,750 model X's delivered in Q2. I don't know what's expected from model S - I guess they've given up some production capacity to the X? But if they continue to deliver at the same rate as this past quarter (12,420 model S's, which is well below the 17,192 of Q4 2015), and they keep up that 750/week model X rate, then they should be able to hit their 80,000 cars target for this year as a whole. http://fortune.com/2016/04/04/tesla-deliveries-first-quarter-2016/ El Grillo fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 15:37
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El Grillo posted:drat, thought this was something they were planning to do a ways down the road, not now. How much area would you even need for the panels? Enormous to actually be relevant but then again it's a gimmick like pretty much all solar so you only need whatever is most visible
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Apr 5, 2016 16:10
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Mange Mite posted:it's a gimmick like pretty much all solar so you only need whatever is most visible Put a solar panel in the empty space on the front of the 3.
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Apr 5, 2016 19:00
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