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Well, you see, because Solid snake is only a partial clone of big bos... 
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Apr 5, 2016 00:01
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TwoPair posted:Man the Patriots really hosed up their programming on when the clones would degrade. I mean, I know the timeline is kinda shaky and hard to track (and IIRC MGS5 kinda retcons it a little) but Solid starts rapid-aging in like, his 30s, but Big Boss kept on truckin' being the ~best soldier ever~ into his 50s if Peace Walker onwards are canon To be fair the whole reason they made the clones degrade is in case they started working against the Patriots which, well
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Apr 5, 2016 00:03
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Danaru posted:To be fair the whole reason they made the clones degrade is in case they started working against the Patriots Seems kind of pointless given that between them and Ocelot, the villains of that story are drat near omniscient and got all the Snakes work for them somehow whether they like it or not. Good thing we had the world's smartest seven-year-old to derail it all at the last minute.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:09
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Danaru posted:To be fair the whole reason they made the clones degrade is in case they started working against the Patriots Which Big Boss also went against in his later soldierin' days, so there was precedent.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:10
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TwoPair posted:Man the Patriots really hosed up their programming on when the clones would degrade. I mean, I know the timeline is kinda shaky and hard to track (and IIRC MGS5 kinda retcons it a little) but Solid starts rapid-aging in like, his 30s, but Big Boss kept on truckin' being the ~best soldier ever~ into his 50s if Peace Walker onwards are canon
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Apr 5, 2016 01:26
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I think I woulda liked it better if they just rehashed naked snake vs boss in that last cutscene, with the veggie zero in the background, so he can watch his bestest buddy and his best science project duke it out one last time, and not know why because he's got super Alzheimer. Big boss explains everything, yelling at you when you're taking cover on the graves to avoid his patriot gun. Except for the whole philosophers something something, he can throw that in when you pump him full of bullets or something. I dunno, sounds better than what they actually did.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:41
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Zereth posted:Big Boss looked pretty loving spry and healthy right up until Foxdie took him out in that graveyard. The power of daily Calisthenics.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:55
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Fargin Icehole posted:I think I woulda liked it better if they just rehashed naked snake vs boss in that last cutscene, with the veggie zero in the background, so he can watch his bestest buddy and his best science project duke it out one last time, and not know why because he's got super Alzheimer. That entire graveyard scene was basically just Kojima half-assing a resolution after the dev team wouldn't let him actually kill Snake.
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Apr 5, 2016 01:57
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Now I'm just imagining a fistfight between Big Boss and Veggie Zero, while Snake watches on in bewilderment.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:36
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And veggie zero is voiced entirely by archive George burns recordings
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Apr 5, 2016 03:51
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Nomad175 posted:Uh, no, I think you misunderstood; Shadow Moses is the second-to-last stage, Arsenal Gear is the last stage
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Apr 5, 2016 03:58
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Geostomp posted:Seems kind of pointless given that between them and Ocelot, the villains of that story are drat near omniscient and got all the Snakes work for them somehow whether they like it or not. Hey man, Snake helped raise that seven year old. He deserves like partial credit. 
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Apr 5, 2016 04:00
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Hey man, Snake helped raise that seven year old. He deserves like partial credit. Snake was the worst dad. Just... just the worst. I'm pretty sure all of the raising credit goes to Ocelot on this one.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:17
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kalonZombie posted:Snake was the worst dad. Just... just the worst. I'm pretty sure all of the raising credit goes to Ocelot on this one. ...do you mean Otacon?
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Apr 5, 2016 04:26
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No, definitely Ocelot.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:35
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kalonZombie posted:Snake was the worst dad. Just... just the worst. I'm pretty sure all of the raising credit goes to Ocelot on this one. Big Boss was probably a worse dad tbf.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:37
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Dabir posted:No, definitely Ocelot. "Since you were "busy' fighting a war I took my niece to her science fair today, brrrrrrrother."
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Apr 5, 2016 04:41
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Bruceski posted:...do you mean Otacon? Dabir posted:No, definitely Ocelot. I mean, let's be honest here, Ocelot would probably make a better dad than Snake too.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:53
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Fargin Icehole posted:I think I woulda liked it better if they just rehashed naked snake vs boss in that last cutscene, with the veggie zero in the background, so he can watch his bestest buddy and his best science project duke it out one last time, and not know why because he's got super Alzheimer. I would have preferred if Big Boss lived and the next game was father and son teaming up together.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:02
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If Raiden is Soldius's adoptive son does that make Raiden and Sunny cousins? And if The Boss is the Mother of Big Boss that means that Ocelot is Solid's uncle. Which means that when Big Boss killed the Cobras he was committing fratricide. So many uncles Solid never got to meet.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:08
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Metal Gear is a series all about bad dads Big Boss to Eli and Dave Huey to Otacon Campbell to Meryl Solidus to Raiden Miller's dad bailed out on him and his mom Ocelot was born on a loving combat zone beach in D-Day because both of his parents thought that was cool It's lovely dads all the way down, the only good dads are Otacon, Dolph, and Raiden. Maybe Gurlukovich if you consider raising your kid as a mercenary as okay.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:09
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Hang on, Ocelot was born on D-day, but didn't The Boss get critically wounded from covering her stomach when trying to kill someone who worked on the Manhattan Project? How long was that going for?
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Apr 5, 2016 05:19
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Raiden did kind of quit his job and become a fugitive to continue his one man crusade on World Marshal and gave into his inner psychopath to do so last we saw. He's a very loving dad otherwise. Otacon apparently managed to grow out of his fairly justified issues enough to be a good enough dad that Sunny took his name without managing fall to the same fate that happens to everyone else he gives a drat about. Fortune's dad seemed okay enough. That's about it for decent fathers in Metal Gear.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:22
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Dabir posted:Hang on, Ocelot was born on D-day, but didn't The Boss get critically wounded from covering her stomach when trying to kill someone who worked on the Manhattan Project? How long was that going for? The Manhattan Project started in 1942 and officially ended in 1947, though I think most non-pedants consider it ended with the bomb drops in 1945.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:24
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Danaru posted:Metal Gear is a series all about bad dads To be fair, they were totally right. (Also, I'm pretty sure Fire Emblem Fates is competitive with Metal Gear in bad parenting. That game is all bad parenting, all the time.)
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Apr 5, 2016 05:29
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Sokolov and Soviet Johnny are the truest gooddads in the series
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Apr 5, 2016 05:30
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Geostomp posted:
Reminder there's a MGR codec where Sunny laments "Dddddaaaaadddd why don't you get settle down and get married?????" e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrd5pcPj0ig&t=771s PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 05:52
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Otacon please find someone who neither plans to kill your friends nor is a family member Otacon please
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Apr 5, 2016 06:00
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TwoPair posted:Man the Patriots really hosed up their programming on when the clones would degrade. I mean, I know the timeline is kinda shaky and hard to track (and IIRC MGS5 kinda retcons it a little) but Solid starts rapid-aging in like, his 30s, but Big Boss kept on truckin' being the ~best soldier ever~ into his 50s if Peace Walker onwards are canon
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Apr 5, 2016 07:05
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I think what TwoPair meant is that if you want to make a copy of a badass 50 year old, you should probably let the copy live at least that long and not start killing them at 30.
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Apr 5, 2016 07:15
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They were short-lived to minimise the damage they could do if they went rogue though.
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Apr 5, 2016 07:26
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Squarely Circle posted:I think what TwoPair meant is that if you want to make a copy of a badass 50 year old, you should probably let the copy live at least that long and not start killing them at 30. Bingo Crowetron posted:That entire graveyard scene was basically just Kojima half-assing a resolution after the dev team wouldn't let him actually kill Snake. I'm sure that that's it (well, I know that's it, I think there's interviews that say as much, right?), but I've had a theory for a long time that a lot of the graveyard scene existing is because Kojima decided at some point after MGS3 that he did not like the idea of his protagonists being villains, so he had to retroactively make sure Big Boss Did Nothing Wrong, and what better way than to have the man himself come out, comatose Zero in tow, and explain how it was all Zero and those big bad Patriots' fault. You can see this trend continue in the other prequel games as BB is never at fault and just has other evil organizations ruin his day because Zero/Patriots/Government/etc. won't leave him be. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 07:27
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The two main characters and bookends to the Illuminati-esque conspiracy that covered the entire series getting to have closure is a way better ending than Snake just offing himself then roll credits
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Apr 5, 2016 07:31
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Danaru posted:The two main characters and bookends to the Illuminati-esque conspiracy that covered the entire series getting to have closure is a way better ending than Snake just offing himself then roll credits I agree, but it's also pretty clear it was a late change, and it suffers for that. Suddenly Snake's whole arc is moot, as is the focus of a good fifth of the game's runtime, and it's squandered for a meandering infodump from the man who thought eating glowing mushrooms recharged batteries.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:22
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Cleretic posted:I agree, but it's also pretty clear it was a late change, and it suffers for that. Suddenly Snake's whole arc is moot, as is the focus of a good fifth of the game's runtime, and it's squandered for a meandering infodump from the man who thought eating glowing mushrooms recharged batteries. To be fair they really do recharge his batteries. 
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Apr 5, 2016 09:03
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:To be fair they really do recharge his batteries.
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Apr 5, 2016 09:41
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Zereth posted:I thought they just seemed to but didn't actually do so? If you check again shortly afterwards they're back down to where they should be. As a chronic motion detector abuser, they definitely charge your batteries for real
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Apr 5, 2016 10:03
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Danaru posted:As a chronic motion detector abuser, they definitely charge your batteries for real Is this actually a property of the mushrooms, or is Big Boss so dumb it works anyway?
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Apr 5, 2016 10:11
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Danaru posted:The two main characters and bookends to the Illuminati-esque conspiracy that covered the entire series getting to have closure is a way better ending than Snake just offing himself then roll credits Which means the original narrative was Naomi once again fucks over Otacon/Snake proving once and for all she is the worst.
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Apr 5, 2016 10:19
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TwoPair posted:I'm sure that that's it (well, I know that's it, I think there's interviews that say as much, right?), but I've had a theory for a long time that a lot of the graveyard scene existing is because Kojima decided at some point after MGS3 that he did not like the idea of his protagonists being villains, so he had to retroactively make sure Big Boss Did Nothing Wrong, and what better way than to have the man himself come out, comatose Zero in tow, and explain how it was all Zero and those big bad Patriots' fault. You can see this trend continue in the other prequel games as BB is never at fault and just has other evil organizations ruin his day because Zero/Patriots/Government/etc. won't leave him be. Granted, it's a mess, but Big Boss is still unquestionably a Bad Guy. Even ignoring the events of Metal Gear 1 & 2, the endings of both Peace Walker and Phantom Pain both go way outta their way to remind you that Big Boss is a hosed up dude who makes hosed up decisions. The thing is, so is Zero. Really, the whole thrust of that scene is that The Boss had an idealistic vision that was filtered through the minds of the two most cynical men in the world, which results in a war-torn global hellscape. It's a very simple kernel of tragic irony that gets muddied by poor presentation and Kojima's overly wordy writing ticks. Big Boss was as much to blame for the evils committed after Snake Eater as Zero and his "victory" over a man who is, for all intents and purposes, dead is a gesture that cuts past all his grandiose speech to reveal he is still just a petty rear end in a top hat after all. As stupid as that reveal is, it has a good idea at its core. It could so easily be fantastic, and one of the major problems is, you're right, the scene is not as harsh on Big Boss as it feels like it should be. But it certain doesn't paint him as a victim. The endgame of MGSV has huge problems, but the actual end basically the exact opposite of the "Back to Zero" scene and I really like it.
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Apr 5, 2016 10:30
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