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Radish posted:It seems like so much of this country's problems, both social and economic, stem from white people terrified their kids will associate with black people. Throw in a rich/poor smaller scoop on top and you have this poo poo sundae that is USPOL
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Apr 5, 2016 15:00
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zoux posted:Hefty symbolism, though. I thought it was just a Fallout: New Vegas reference.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:01
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Volcott posted:That being said, please do not stab a guy with a flag pole. It's incredibly rude. He was not trying to stab the guy, just swing it at hin
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Apr 5, 2016 15:01
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Radish posted:It seems like so much of this country's problems, both social and economic, stem from white people terrified their kids will associate with black people. According to census data their kids are more than just associating.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:07
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Barudak posted:According to census data their kids are more than just associating. gently caress the World Tan™
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Apr 5, 2016 15:11
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Xanderkish posted:When I was fourteen or fifteen I called myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That was because I did not understand social theory and economics and also because I wanted to appear educated with a "best of both worlds" mentality that I only later learned was wrong. This was me as a Freshman in high school, minus the Catholic school bit (I went to a public high school). I was naive but budding in political thought, so I thought latching on to "socially liberal, fiscally conservative," sounded like the most responsible, Serious Person left-leaning position to take without understanding what "fiscally conservative" actually entailed. To be fair, I think that says a lot more (depressing things) about America's default political mores/Overton Window than it does about individual people.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:23
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Fiscally conservative and socially liberal means someone who doesn't want any laws they find repressive and doesn't want any spending they find excessive. This is in stark contrast to people who find certain laws repressive and expenditures excessive but want them anyhow.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:31
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Luigi Thirty posted:For people who are wondering how schools can be so bad for black students, here's one perfect example. Pinellas County is one of the richest in the state of Florida. Nearly all of St. Peterburg's black population live in a 12-square-mile area that was originally designated as The Black Neighborhood 80 years ago. It's square in the middle of poverty indicators for black populations in Florida but its elementary schools are five of the worst in the state. Why is that? Pinellas County schools were desegregated in 1971 and they introduced forced integration, busing students around so no school would be more than 30% black. It worked and black students were steadily improving. With the poorer students spread out across all the schools in the city, they could be assisted more effectively. Segregation is alive and well in America again, except this time it's a quiet de facto economic segregation over time versus an overt de jure political segregation, so it's hard to get people riled up over it. It's easier to be complacent over "well, they made wrong choices and became poor; so it's their fault, gently caress 'em!" (which oddly correspond along racial lines, huh, that's weird) classist views versus a George Wallace-figure loudly proclaiming "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 15:35
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But i want the best school possible for my little McCaylye. She's a special snowflake who gets anxiety around poor people.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:43
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Almost no one is going to place ideology above the welfare of their kids. So when they want you to send your kid across town to go to a "bad" school, when you spent $X more to live in a good district and go to the good schools with better teacher/student ratios, facilities, instructional materials, etc.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:47
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zoux posted:Almost no one is going to place ideology above the welfare of their kids. One of the true pillars of conservatism.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:48
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petit choux posted:One of the true pillars of conservatism. Liberals don't do it either. Minority families are some of the strongest supporters of charter schools because they are sick of waiting for the promised rising tide and are now focusing on getting a good education for their kids. If it dismantles the public school system, well it wasn't doing them any good anyway.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:49
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Dr. VooDoo posted:That Matt Tabbi piece reads more like a bitter editorial director who's mad he didn't get that fat check to be honest and Tabbi did. He's literally using the "nothing gets past this guy!" logic from that Occupy comic. "If Matt Tabbi is so against income inequality why does he have money?!" I've literally had people tell me, when I was advocating for higher taxes on the rich, "there's nothing stopping you from giving the government more of your money!" 
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Apr 5, 2016 15:52
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petit choux posted:One of the true pillars of conservatism. Yeah, no, it's really more of a parents thing, not a political spectrum thing.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:57
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LeeMajors posted:I've literally had people tell me, when I was advocating for higher taxes on the rich, "there's nothing stopping you from giving the government more of your money!" Tl;dr, "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" is for assholes, and there's a whooole lot of assholes in America. 
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Apr 5, 2016 15:57
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zoux posted:Liberals don't do it either. Minority families are some of the strongest supporters of charter schools because they are sick of waiting for the promised rising tide and are now focusing on getting a good education for their kids. If it dismantles the public school system, well it wasn't doing them any good anyway. Charter schools are just an effective way to crush teacher's unions.
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Apr 5, 2016 15:57
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silvergoose posted:Yeah, no, it's really more of a parents thing, not a political spectrum thing. So what you're saying is... kill you're parents?
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Apr 5, 2016 15:58
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Radish posted:It seems like so much of this country's problems, both social and economic, stem from white people terrified their kids will associate with black people. Though depressingly true overall, on the subject of Bussing this is hyperbole. It's entirely rational for any parent, of any race to balk at the idea of sending their kid forty minutes away from their currently well funded and staffed schools, to the most violent and underfunded.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:00
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It's also how you get anti vaxx parents! Really the root cause is how funding towards public education gets distributed to various schools. Spending per student shouldn't really vary like at all across districts/schools in a given area.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:01
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Talmonis posted:Though depressingly true overall, on the subject of Bussing this is hyperbole. It's entirely rational for any parent, of any race to balk at the idea of sending their kid forty minutes away from their currently well funded and staffed schools, to the most violent and underfunded. Yeah I can understand parents not wanting their own kids to go to "under performing" schools. I think the solution to that issue would be to get equal funding to all schools statewide but I doubt that will happen.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:03
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Hollismason posted:Charter schools are just an effective way to crush teacher's unions. While this is true, it's hard to fault poor inner city parents who are looking for any hope, any alternative to the poo poo schools their kid is getting stabbed in.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:09
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Lotka Volterra posted:So what you're saying is... kill you're parents? Unless you are a parent, in which case kill you'reself.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:11
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Stultus Maximus posted:While this is true, it's hard to fault poor inner city parents who are looking for any hope, any alternative to the poo poo schools their kid is getting stabbed in. Yeah, there's no one who opposes charter schools stronger than I, but I'm not going to tell minority parents who have been failed by government since day one of America not to seek every opportunity they can for their own kids rather than wait for white people to get their poo poo together.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:15
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Speaking of which, is it a problem of funding that we have violent schools? What is the root cause there?
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Apr 5, 2016 16:17
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Talmonis posted:Speaking of which, is it a problem of funding that we have violent schools? What is the root cause there? Poverty, the root cause of everything is poverty.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:18
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Hollismason posted:Charter schools are just an effective way to crush teacher's unions. That's only a side benefit -- and a number of charter school systems are unionized -- it's more about moving control of school systems from states to private parties and a giveaway to religious idiots.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:18
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Radish posted:Yeah I can understand parents not wanting their own kids to go to "under performing" schools. I think the solution to that issue would be to get equal funding to all schools statewide but I doubt that will happen. Poor schools don't need equal funding, they need disproportionately higher funding. Even if you exclude the infrastructure repairs and school supplies, they need more money to get their students back on track.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:19
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Radish posted:Yeah I can understand parents not wanting their own kids to go to "under performing" schools. I think the solution to that issue would be to get equal funding to all schools statewide but I doubt that will happen. It really needs to, though. I went to schools on both ends of the spectrum and the difference in the quality of education I got was astounding. From K through 3rd grade I went to a school that was situated in a high tax majority white area and moved from there to an inner city school where I was the only white kid in my overcrowded class. The two schools I just described are 15 miles apart from each other, yet one had textbooks that were at least 10 years out of date while the other had brand new IBM workstations in each classroom. Zonekeeper fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 16:22
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computer parts posted:Poor schools don't need equal funding, they need disproportionately higher funding. No but you see, we can't reward them for failing. Because providing funding according to need is rewarding failure, you see.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:25
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potato of destiny posted:No but you see, we can't reward them for failing. This bridge is structurally failing, we can't reward that sort of behavior by repairing it!
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Apr 5, 2016 16:26
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Fiscally conservative and socially liberal means someone who doesn't want any laws they find repressive and doesn't want any spending they find excessive. This is in stark contrast to people who find certain laws repressive and expenditures excessive but want them anyhow. Like with those who think "the truth is in the middle" and "both sides have their virtues/problems", it's simply a rhetorical device to let a person be intellectually lazy while feeling above the fray and morally superior. These statements give the impression that they are carefully and methodically evaluating everything, and picking out the best ideas regardless of origin, and that anyone who argues or strongly advocates for something is just a simpleton ideologue with no independent thought. Of course, in reality they evaluate nothing and don't form any genuine opinions, because they are intellectually lazy. Even Jesus wanted to spew the lukewarm from his mouth, and he was a pretty chill dude.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:29
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DOOP posted:He was not trying to stab the guy, just swing it at hin The man who seems to be holding him is also actually helping him up, and I think we've reached pronoun critical mass. Let me try again. The man with the flag is Joseph Rakes. The guy he's swinging at is Ted Landsmark. The guy holding Landsmark is Jim Kelly. While it looks like Kelly is holding Landsmark up to be skewered, he's actually helping him to his feet after he was knocked down. He will later put himself in between Landsmark and the protestors, including Rakes, to protect him. What I didn't know until I looked up the names is that he was actually one of the protestors, a city councilman even. It's a very interesting image.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:30
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Basically any parent in a rich neighborhood that helps their child with <whatever> is subsidizing the education of that school district by essentially providing free teaching. That's an externality that's not usually calculated in these funding reallotment programs.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:33
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computer parts posted:Basically any parent in a rich neighborhood that helps their child with <whatever> is subsidizing the education of that school district by essentially providing free teaching. Oh there are a ton of externalities that affect educational outcomes, which is why solutions discretely targeted at only education are doomed to fail. It doesn't matter how good your classroom instruction is if your mom has to work three jobs because your dad is in jail due to our racist CJ structure and can't afford to keep you adequately clothed and fed and offer extracurricular enrichment opportunities like "help you with your homework" and "make sure you actually go to school every day and take care of your poo poo."
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Apr 5, 2016 16:36
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DemeaninDemon posted:Gives people a reason to unfuck a school you doofus. Yeah forcing people to send their kids to poorly performing schools far away from where they live is totally going to force them to fund those schools rather than vote out whichever politicians got that policy enacted  . Lots of people on both the left and the right inexplicably seem to think they can politically punish people into supporting certain policy goals, you can't.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:36
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computer parts posted:Poor schools don't need equal funding, they need disproportionately higher funding. computer parts posted:Basically any parent in a rich neighborhood that helps their child with <whatever> is subsidizing the education of that school district by essentially providing free teaching. Those are good points.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:37
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The Larch posted:The man who seems to be holding him is also actually helping him up, and I think we've reached pronoun critical mass. Thanks for giving us the details. I've seen the image for years and I always just assumed the guy was being held instead of being helped. Wild.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:38
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zoux posted:Poverty, the root cause of everything is poverty. Poverty cannot be the root cause if poverty itself is caused by a confluence of things (racism). By the way, whatever happened to Fried Chicken? Did Mike Pence finally give him an aneurysm?
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Apr 5, 2016 16:47
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MaxxBot posted:Yeah forcing people to send their kids to poorly performing schools far away from where they live is totally going to force them to fund those schools rather than vote out whichever politicians got that policy enacted I mean, this isn't even like with the 100 other things that "would never work in America" despite literally every other developed nation doing it. This is a thing that America actually did already. And not very long ago, either.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:49
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zoux posted:Oh there are a ton of externalities that affect educational outcomes, which is why solutions discretely targeted at only education are doomed to fail. It doesn't matter how good your classroom instruction is if your mom has to work three jobs because your dad is in jail due to our racist CJ structure and can't afford to keep you adequately clothed and fed and offer extracurricular enrichment opportunities like "help you with your homework" and "make sure you actually go to school every day and take care of your poo poo." also "did you have breakfast and dinner or is the only time you get to eat when you get your free school-provided lunch"
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Apr 5, 2016 16:53
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